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PSD
ALPHA


Sep 24, 2003, 9:10 PM

Post #51 of 251 (7736 views)
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Re: [mhazman] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

Azman,

Glad to have helped. Another thing in why SchH Protection and not straight into Civil protection training is to ensure that he only bites the sleeve in the sport trial and not everything in sight. Even because a dog bite the sleeve only does not mean he has no fight. These SchH dogs whose foundation work are done well will be able to be easily transfer trained into civil aggression for police work and personal protection work. But for PP dogs trained in Civil agression to be transfered into SchH is very dangerous for the inexperienced helper. This is why we have to decide early based on what we read in the puppy testing and along the training path and observation to prescribe what kind of training and work these dogs are better suited for.

Some are for SchH, some for PP, some excellent for Agility and some very good for competitive OB and of course some excellent for police/customs detection work. Each dog has to be read based on their own merits.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Sep 25, 2003, 9:18 AM

Post #52 of 251 (7722 views)
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Re: [PSD] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi PSD & Azman,

As u know I m currently only doing prey works, trying to get him to do firm grip on tug before moving on.

Therefore b4 I attempt to do any defensive works, is there any method/ways to develop / bring-out / stimulate his defensive drv . I wanna be damm sure wt all this b4 moving on to this step, the other reason is I dun wanna stress him too early. Unsure Is there any other method than tie-in to stimulate this drv..? Shocked . . . Anybody ? ?

How do u read into defensive drv , I meant other than the hackles at the back of its neck & a deeper bark under aggitation or..? ? Crazy the reason is I dun wanna be confuse def drv with weak nerve so that if his nerve cannot handle protection work I will stop this phase immediately......!

BTW anybody knows any place in M'sia that sell prot sleeve etc ?

Thanx






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


PSD
ALPHA


Sep 25, 2003, 6:53 PM

Post #53 of 251 (7719 views)
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Re: [Polluxx] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
As u know I m currently only doing prey works, trying to get him to do firm grip on tug before moving on.


Rite. Firm grip, calm grip, run with prey, dont drop prey is what I like to see before proceeding.


Quote
Therefore b4 I attempt to do any defensive works, is there any method/ways to develop / bring-out / stimulate his defensive drv . I wanna be damm sure wt all this b4 moving on to this step, the other reason is I dun wanna stress him too early. Unsure Is there any other method than tie-in to stimulate this drv..? Shocked . . . Anybody ? ?


At 9mths I will not do that in general. Further to that you havent graduate the dog onto a sleeve yet. Do this first and get the bite in prey and work the bite to be as good as mentioned above. Then do tie out to intensify the prey drive and introduction into prey guarding frustrations. When qualified on that, do some civil agitation in a suspicious place not known by the dog, you need a helper here. This is to build defense for a week or 2 which you also use an unknown helper to do defensive tie out training on sleeve. This will build the defense stress level and from here if done correctly will build confidence and then you see fight drive coming in. These mentioned above is big steps and takes time. I could not put everything into writing but know that there is more parameters to look out for.

However Polluxx, dont be so hurry with this. too early is not good.

While there are other ways of bringing up defense, which some "pro" helpers we have in Malaysia goes straight into thretening the dog. I find those a bit crappy as the dog run a high risk of losing every confidence that you were trying to build for the last 8 months to bring up. These dogs if they make it will be biting all the way in defence drive instead of graduating into fight. Very little do I see them graduate into fight unless they are very strong dogs sadly this method will break a lot of dogs.


Quote
How do u read into defensive drv , I meant other than the hackles at the back of its neck & a deeper bark under aggitation or..? ? Crazy the reason is I dun wanna be confuse def drv with weak nerve so that if his nerve cannot handle protection work I will stop this phase immediately......!


You will see the nerve by how confident he handles his surroundings, loud noise, firecrackers, etc. Good nerves dog will be indifferent and better still will check out the noise source. Haven't you done puppy test when you got him? It should already show then.


Quote
BTW anybody knows any place in M'sia that sell prot sleeve etc ?


I want to know too myself as I was getting my supplies all from the net. At 9 mths, you might want to use puppy sleeve first before going onto hard sleeve. Shape the bites better this way.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)

(This post was edited by PSD on Sep 25, 2003, 7:04 PM)


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Sep 25, 2003, 8:37 PM

Post #54 of 251 (7711 views)
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Re: [PSD] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi PSD,

Quote : ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At 9mths I will not do that in general. Further to that you havent graduate the dog onto a sleeve yet. Do this first and get the bite in prey and work the bite to be as good as mentioned above. Then do tie out to intensify the prey drive and introduction into prey guarding frustrations.

__________________________________________________________

Thanx for timely advise, I will keep that in mind. Just wanna clarify a bit , is it alrite to do the tie-out (to build frustration) myself or you nedd to get a helper to do it ? ?

As for his nerves, well from wht I gather & observe he is ok wt loud noise, things like fire-crackers dun scare him, I got him around CNY so there was a lot of crackers going off around my neighbourhood, I thk he slept through most of it but not my other dog...LOL ! Laugh , as for the puppy test , well I forgot to bring anything wt me then, so I just improvised using a bunch of keys that I was holding Wink, i dun thk the noise was loud enough but he did chk out the source of noise , but he was not very lively at that time (I thk it was around mid-day then) . . . Anyway I guess I just have to wait & see, should have a better picture in another few more mths. Angelic praying real hard....he-he ! Sly

BTW anybody wanna give a go in interpreting "FIGHT drv" ? I thk it will be very useful to other reader on board since this term is use quite frequently here...! Azman, ..PSD, ..anybody ? ?






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


PSD
ALPHA


Sep 25, 2003, 8:37 PM

Post #55 of 251 (7711 views)
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Re: [Polluxx, mhazman] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
My version of civil would be " willingness to fight a man without equipment". I guess thats why the dogs are trained on hidden sleeve and muzzlework. But its a little bit risky..


Polluxx,

Azman is right with this description. I was replying you earlier on civil sharpness which is defense bark....along the way I guess the word sharpness got lost in the translation.Sly

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Sep 25, 2003, 8:55 PM

Post #56 of 251 (7708 views)
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Re: [PSD, mhazman] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi PSD , Azman,

Both of U, wht do u thk of this ?

Civil = "Willingness or Courage to engage in Fight when under threat" Wink !










"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


PSD
ALPHA


Sep 25, 2003, 8:58 PM

Post #57 of 251 (7708 views)
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Re: [Polluxx] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote

Thanx for timely advise, I will keep that in mind. Just wanna clarify a bit , is it alrite to do the tie-out (to build frustration) myself or you nedd to get a helper to do it ? ?


anything in prey you can do yourself. Defensive tie out only someone not known by the dog can do.


Quote
As for his nerves, well from wht I gather & observe he is ok wt loud noise, things like fire-crackers dun scare him, I got him around CNY so there was a lot of crackers going off around my neighbourhood, I thk he slept through most of it but not my other dog...LOL ! Laugh , as for the puppy test , well I forgot to bring anything wt me then, so I just improvised using a bunch of keys that I was holding Wink, i dun thk the noise was loud enough but he did chk out the source of noise , but he was not very lively at that time (I thk it was around mid-day then) . . . Anyway I guess I just have to wait & see, should have a better picture in another few more mths. Angelic praying real hard....he-he ! Sly


I think you dog is ok.


Quote
BTW anybody wanna give a go in interpreting "FIGHT drv" ? I thk it will be very useful to other reader on board since this term is use quite frequently here...! Azman, ..PSD, ..anybody ? ?


Azman, say something!Sly You have dissapeared long enough......Tongue Gua mau bagi lu chance!!Pirate

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Sep 26, 2003, 4:30 AM

Post #58 of 251 (7696 views)
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Re: [mhazman] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Azman,

this board is missing U already .....Blush ! ! !






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


colinchin
Enthusiast


Sep 26, 2003, 5:02 PM

Post #59 of 251 (7687 views)
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Re: [Polluxx] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Polluxx,

I am from JB and currently looking for working line breed. I would like to catch up with you and perhaps we could meet up and get to know each other. As you are aware there are only a handful of people are into working line breeds.

It will be great to meet you in person, so far I have not seen any working line breeds in JB or Kota Tinggi yet.

Hope to hear from you. Good day.

p/s: Hi to Azman and PSD as well. Hope to meet up with you guys up there as well one day. BTW, PSD where are you located ?

Regards,

Colin


mhazman
Member

Sep 26, 2003, 8:00 PM

Post #60 of 251 (7685 views)
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Re: [Polluxx] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

Guys..,
I went to Melaka lah.. yesterday.

Polluxx,
How well can you read your dog or other dogs ?
Defense requires courage & nerves.
Sharpness is a threshold.

In the bitework, does your dog counter ?
I think PSD will agree with me that explaining all these is not as easy. Definition and interpretations differ. Everybody's learning...

At 9 months your dog should show (1 to 3 yrs must be there if not may not be there at all) signs of defense drive. Observe them and build on it step by step.
Look at his body language when reacting to unfamiliar things or person. He should have focus, defense posture and the defense bark etc. Easier to say when you have the dog in front of you. Don't stress him into avoidance.

How is his obedience?
Is he willing to overcome obstacles to listen to you ?

Where did you buy your tugs?

Azman


PSD
ALPHA


Sep 26, 2003, 8:53 PM

Post #61 of 251 (7682 views)
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Re: [mhazman] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Guys..,
I went to Melaka lah.. yesterday.


Welcome backSmile


Quote
Defense requires courage & nerves.


I would word it this way

"Training defense for success requires courage and nerves"

The reason being poor nerves dogs with no courage will still have defense at a very very low threshold.


Quote
At 9 months your dog should show (1 to 3 yrs must be there if not may not be there at all) signs of defense drive. Observe them and build on it step by step.


Defense will come in different stages depending on the dog. This is why training a reliable protection dog must follow the dogs schedule and not regimented trainers schedule. To do too early will push the dog into avoidance but to do too late will locked them in prey.

For your example I have seen a dog whom doesn't show defense until 18 months but at 18 month when he does come, wah lao! no pray..pray one ah!

As a generalisation, German lines are slower in defence maturation while Czech are earlier. Again this is generalisation and not a comandment.


Quote
Look at his body language when reacting to unfamiliar things or person. He should have focus, defense posture and the defense bark etc. Easier to say when you have the dog in front of you. Don't stress him into avoidance.


Azman is right. Starting defense work must not involve any contact at all until the dog is very sure. It must be done at a distance for a start and slowly worked closer into them for couple of weeks and still no bite. this will build confidence and intensity.

I think this is where Guard dogs training and SchH training start to form some differences in the training method. Most commercial guard dog trainer if not all will want to rush into stressing the dog to bite out of defense. Their job is done as long as the dog perceives the threat and bite. But for SchH we cannot do that as we want the dog to bite and bring the fight into the helper. The bite must be full and calm not nervy half bite which defensive dog will give out.

So fight drive in my own word is a dog who is of very confident in winning the fight with the helper and not bothered by anything else. He sees the threat as his equal fighting partner which he will not lose to. He charged into the helper in more of forward motion rather than try to drag the helper all over the trial field. So in shrt

fight drives come from Defense + Prey with experience and confidence of always winning a fight.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Sep 26, 2003, 9:03 PM

Post #62 of 251 (7680 views)
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Re: [colinchin] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Colin,

Well its abt time someone from JB come on board ! So what makes U interested wt working line breed , BTW when U mentioned working line breed do U mean GSD or any other working breed ? Cool

Well for your info, I currently owned a young working line GSD, and yes I thk there is at least a few other working line GSD in Jhr but I really can't confirm it ! Wink

BTW if u have anything to ask abt working line GSD in particular, I'm sure our 2 resident experience owner on board ("PSD & Azman"), Tongue....they would be able to offer their advice to U. Dun worry they dun "bite"........Ouch...!SlySly.... and as for me, I will do wth I can to help.......sorry l am still in infancy stage , so not much of experience yet.....! But hey aren't we all here to learn rite ! Smile

U can also contact me directly at , I m looking forward of meeting U one of these days...! Cool

Have fun on board ........!






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Sep 26, 2003, 9:25 PM

Post #63 of 251 (7679 views)
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Re: [mhazman] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Azman,

Phew !....well its abt time u r back ,

So how was ur trip to our "Historical City"

Quote : "How well can you read your dog or other dogs ?"

SO-so only Blush.....but I 'm trying to learn more from training tapes...! U can see more variety of drv / nerve from the eg shown on the tape ! That is why I m asking for more interpretation on our discusssion topic so that I dun get confused here..! Tongue

Anyway back to ur reply abt Def drv ,

Quote :"Defense requires courage & nerves"

. . . do u mean to say "Fighting Drv" coz I tot defense drv occcur depends on the nerves of the dog, tso the harder the dog is the harder to stress him into Def Drv...while a weaker nerve dog will be stress quite easily or even will take flight...!....What do U think.....! Cool

BTW just to assure U guys,.....I will only stimulate my dog defence when he is at least 15 mths old...just wanna play safe la..Wink

His obedience is ok ..... but not tested yet (mostly in-house).....so recalling him is still easy....the only problem now is "heeling"....very susah to get his attention but when I try use food it is "over attention" Laugh

I got my tug over the NET...! so its kinda ex....that's why I m checking does anybody here know where to get tug /sleeve in M'sia...will very much appreciate any info on this..Smile Wht abt U, Azman where did U get ur sleeve ?






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


mhazman
Member

Sep 27, 2003, 5:13 AM

Post #64 of 251 (7666 views)
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Re: [Polluxx] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Polluxx,
Melaka- Just doing site visit .Got some old LPs at Jonker St.

Depending on the threat level ,courage and its training, your dog will react differently whether to fight or take flight. This is normally where sport dogs,
real protection dogs and Police service dogs starts to
differ.All these dogs have defense but with varying degrees.
Weak nerves- You need some ground rules to do protection and PSD is good at advocating this..
Get the right lineage, see/know the parents, puppy selection test, early conditioning and imprinting etc should give you a decent working dog.

Tugs & Sleeve- Have to import from Mr. Bush

Azman


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Sep 27, 2003, 6:08 AM

Post #65 of 251 (7659 views)
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Re: [mhazman,PSD] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi guys,

Wht do U guys think of this !
==================================
FIGHT DRV :
is the Interaction of Prey & Defense Drv with
the Forwardness of Prey & Intensity of Defense
=====================================



Quote : Azman
"Get the right lineage, see/know the parents"
===================================
Yup thats wht I was thinking off when I got my pups, I called it stacking up my odds...Cool..he-he !



Quote : PSD
"German lines are slower in defence maturation while Czech are earlier."
=====================================
Any idea wht abt DDR lines...? Wink



Quote : PSD
"To do too early will push the dog into avoidance but to do too late will locked them in prey."
====================================
Now like wht Azman mentioned earlier, how to perceived or our dogs accurately....! I know this comes with experience but any advice will be most helpful since I dun wanna screw up this wt my 1st working GSD...Tongue



Quote : Azman
"Depending on the threat level ,courage and its training, your dog will react differently whether to fight or take flight. This is normally where sport dogs, real protection dogs and Police service dogs starts to differ"
====================================

So guys, normally who do u thk will last the distance !
My best guess will be Police Service...b'coz of the stressful test but might put my money on Mondio Ring if given a choice ... seen a demo video, I thk that's a killer for sure. . ! Shocked






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


PSD
ALPHA


Sep 27, 2003, 6:27 PM

Post #66 of 251 (7652 views)
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Re: [Polluxx] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote

==================================
FIGHT DRV :
is the Interaction of Prey & Defense Drv with
the Forwardness of Prey & Intensity of Defense
=====================================


Agreed, To help understand. Dog working in Defense drive is a very stressful dog but dog working in Fight drive is not. This is because he sees the bad guy, he get mad at the bad guy and he wants to give the bad guy a piece of his mind.Smile

An easy example of prey drive, defense drive and fight drive in use is easier explained this way.

Let just say you go for karate class, you learn all the techniques. (this is prey since in sparing there is no life and death stress)) But one day while walking down the road you are faced with a mugger with a dagger in his hands. Your blood pressure rise and the heartbeat risen you then are put into a situation of should you run or should you fight using the techniques you learned in prey (this is defense drive)
Then if you decide to take flight and flee you are a prey monster. But if you get so mad with the mugger for pointing the dagger at you and wanted so bad to teach him a lesson and give him a piece of your mind then you are working in Fight drive.(I borrowed this defination which I think easiest to understand from Frawley.


Quote

Yup thats wht I was thinking off when I got my pups, I called it stacking up my odds...Cool..he-he !


You are correct. Good lineage will narrow the margin of error in getting a good dog but good dog need to be handpicked based on their drives, hardness and sociability. which can be seen in puppies based on testing and long observation. Therefore the good breeder will be the best person to know the puppies potiential.

BTW, the breeder must be someone into the training/sport arena so that they know what is needed for that purpose.



Quote

"German lines are slower in defence maturation while Czech are earlier."
=====================================
Any idea wht abt DDR lines...? Wink


Same as german lines as a general rule



Quote

"To do too early will push the dog into avoidance but to do too late will locked them in prey."
====================================
Now like wht Azman mentioned earlier, how to perceived or our dogs accurately....! I know this comes with experience but any advice will be most helpful since I dun wanna screw up this wt my 1st working GSD...Tongue


When the grip is excellent, full and hard. He carries the prey like no tomorrow. You can't get the sleeve off him easily or none at all....that is then your cue to do defense agitation starting with civil agitation in place unknown to the dog. This is the 1st step into defense training(no bites yet please)



Quote

"Depending on the threat level ,courage and its training, your dog will react differently whether to fight or take flight. This is normally where sport dogs, real protection dogs and Police service dogs starts to differ"
====================================


Azman, do you want to be my helper with my "sports dog?" SmileThe difference is all in training methods and ability of trainers to bring up the fight. Once a dog is working in intense fight drive then they are no difference from each other be it protection dog, Police dog or PP dogs. But if you compare 100% prey monster sports dog to PP dogs then I fully agree with youCool


Quote
So guys, normally who do u thk will last the distance !
My best guess will be Police Service...b'coz of the stressful test but might put my money on Mondio Ring if given a choice ... seen a demo video, I thk that's a killer for sure. . ! Shocked


Bro, SchH also sudah pening kapla to introduce and you want Mondio Ring ah?Sly Anyway it must be an acceptance of thoughts that there are bad sports dog as well as good ones and there are bad police dog as there are good police dogs. The only difference is that since Police dogs Are specially selected from puppy testing and special inprinting process their margin of error is very very small. But if you compare good sports with a good police dog then you will not see much difference there. This is why the difference in price in top grade tested and graded working dog puppies against the average dog from the same litter.


BTW Azman, do you have an e-mail adress where I can contact you in?

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


mhazman
Member

Sep 27, 2003, 11:58 PM

Post #67 of 251 (7644 views)
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Re: [PSD] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

PSD,Polluxx,
I sense some prey & defense work in the Pastoral group. Are we in the right group ? ...

The karate kid version is very familiar to me but thought I'd not mention it since everybody seems to be in drive yesterday .
So Polluxx, if you can get you hands on Frawley's
training videos or the equivalent ( not advertising aah) before you further your dogs education then both you and your dog will greatly benefit from it.


"This is normally where sport dogs, real protection dogs and Police service dogs starts to differ"

Something is missing here.
I mean to say the requirement for these dogs differ. Whether they meet or exceed them is something else and for real protection and police dogs, only time will tell.

I think I won't last more than 10 seconds with your dog laar..

he he..

MohdAzman.MohdAli@ing.com.my


PSD
ALPHA


Sep 28, 2003, 3:51 AM

Post #68 of 251 (7641 views)
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Re: [mhazman] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

Bro,

Not too much defense drive lah. Just want to make this discussion lively with clarity of issues. Single drive discussion is boring lah, don't you agree?Smile Not meant to challenge thoughWink

Don't worry about my dog that much lah! You'll survive cause he is not thought civility yet so the most he will bit his favourite sleeve off you....lolLaugh

Peace pal! Sly

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


boon
Doggyman


Sep 28, 2003, 9:44 AM

Post #69 of 251 (7632 views)
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Re: [PSD] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi PSD, Polluxx, Azman,

Took me about 45 minutes to 'scan' thru all your posts and u drive me crazy....so many thing that i need to check out to rally understand your conversation and discussion. Pai seh paiseh....

PSD : we must meet in person one of these days and have a nice talk abit al this, i'm a newbie in this dog thingys.

Azman : Will be great if we can arragne a day to pay u a visit

Polluxx : my mail is , do u mind share with me what sites of gsd and forums u r in ?

Guys : anyone kind enuf to have some photos up in our photo gallery or mail me personally if u choose to do so. I really wanted to take a look at your German Mongrels.Smile

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


mhazman
Member

Sep 28, 2003, 11:44 PM

Post #70 of 251 (7622 views)
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Re: [PSD] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

PSD,

"Not too much defense drive lah. Just want to make this discussion lively with clarity of issues. Single drive discussion is boring lah, don't you agree? Not meant to challenge though "

All the different temperaments..!
I'm OK.. with controlled aggression.. Ha ha...

Azman


mhazman
Member

Sep 28, 2003, 11:55 PM

Post #71 of 251 (7621 views)
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Re: [boon] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Boon,

Anytime u r in KL. ..
It's only 15 min. from Sg. Buloh toll.

BTW, your Bonney not jealous ahh ?


Azman


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Sep 29, 2003, 6:35 AM

Post #72 of 251 (7613 views)
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Re: [PSD,mhazman] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Guys,

Quote :Azman
"I sense some prey & defense work in the Pastoral group. Are we in the right group ? ... "
===================================
U bet ! ..... & where were U all this while ? ?..Tongue


Quote :Azman
"So Polluxx, if you can get you hands on Frawley's
training videos or the equivalent
====================================
Yup tht's wht I did, but mostly vid done together wt B-Flinks ! ....anyway still cannot get my pup too have good firm grips or as wht PSD mentioned earlier "Crushing Bite", still his grip is calm not chewy ! Another problem is getting him high in drv for very long currently 20 min drv work will tire him out !


Quote :PSD
"You can't get the sleeve off him easily or none at all....that is then your cue to do defense agitation starting with civil agitation in place unknown to the dog. This is the 1st step into defense training(no bites yet please)"
====================================
Thx for the tips, well my next pose will be tht if the young dog is alredi having firm grip on the tug but will not come back to the handler , so can we still move on the defense aggitation while at the same time, try to polished up the grip (calm & firm) Crazy . . . ? ?


Quote:PSD
"But if you compare good sports with a good police dog then you will not see much difference there."
====================================
I always tot Police K9 (Patrol) will be harder (stronger nerve) since like they were specially selected & have gone thru countless testing (Stress) before being selected, I thk (this just my personal opinion) sports dog in ScH (we r talking abt level3) is still not thoroughly tested for nerve of steel....I thk it could be better....? Wht do U think...? Wink


Azman, been meaning to ask U this for quite a while, how's is the "fight drv" as compare between ur Malinois & ur GSD ? Blush


One last thing Guys, any advise will be most helpful here , DO we need to polished up our dog's obedience (100%) b4 moving on to aggitation or defence drv promotion? . . .coz I thk getting my dog to go into def drv is easier than getting him to be 100& obedience... Laugh..! !

..........






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


(This post was edited by Polluxx on Sep 29, 2003, 6:55 AM)


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Sep 29, 2003, 6:42 AM

Post #73 of 251 (7612 views)
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Re: [boon] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Boon,

Quote :
"do u mind share with me what sites of gsd and forums u r in ? "
====================================
Sure no problem, just chk ur e-mail !

Hope to c u here to keep the discussion going ! Wink






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


(This post was edited by Polluxx on Sep 29, 2003, 7:33 AM)


boon
Doggyman


Sep 29, 2003, 8:42 AM

Post #74 of 251 (7607 views)
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Re: [Polluxx] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Polluxx,

nope, no email woh.....Blush

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


boon
Doggyman


Sep 29, 2003, 8:53 AM

Post #75 of 251 (7606 views)
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Re: [mhazman] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Azman,

sure will drop u a line when i go to KL sometime 'soon' i thinkTongueCoolSmile

hehhehe my Bonney ah ? she will i think, but not to worry, i got secret weapon to get her agree with me to bring another dog or dogs home. Wink

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --

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