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URGENT! My dogs are out of control!

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Jun 9, 2006, 11:03 AM

Post #1 of 7 (10263 views)
URGENT! My dogs are out of control! Can't Post

Hi all,

The past month, I've been taking my pup to the vet like on a regular basis, because his older brother and him keeps on fighting! (officially they fought over 6 times in a span of a few weeks) Bleeding from cuts to bruises are very apparent in both dogs. I realized when they fight, they can't stop no matter how angry I shout and command them to stop and I have to pull them apart literally which usually fail in the first few attempts because they are both really strong. I got bit the 1st time they fought, I had 15 stiches on my left hand and right arm because out of panic I reached out in between them to stop them both. They still continue to fight (just happened this evening) and I am at my wits end. I really dunno how to settle this, my brother has been punishing them by hitting them both and yelling at them but this seems to escalate my older dog's (he's almost 15 months old) agrression even towards me and my brother. He snarls and growls at me when I wanted to pet him tonight. Jagger is 6months old and we had him for almost 4 months now and before Jagger's arrival, Lennon never showed any aggression and probably because he was still very young then. Now being 15 months old I think he is entering his teenage years and he is testing the water with the whole concept of dominance over all his brothers and even over me. The problem is, my older dog Lennon is only interested to fight with my youngest Jagger and he leaves Bono alone and both Lennon and Bono never ever fought. Bono (same age as Lennon, they are from the same litter) is a very good tempered dog and dislike conflicts, actually I know that Bono seems to have the higher IQ and Lennon is just all bronze. This is the pattern, first they Jagger and Lennon were fighting over toys (the chewy bones) Lennon is extremely playful and since I've started working at my new company, I have travel quite frequently and can't be home that often to play with him plus he had this huge bump on his body because he got injured while playing with the tennis ball game, so we stop playing the ball game with him since that bump incident. Lennon is extremely demanding and he will be very vocal in showing his frustration, he don't just bark, he will cry non stop and make some kind of begging sound to a big complaining growl. No is never no with him until he sees the cane that I am holding. I am guilty for I favor him the most and it hurts me so much that he is getting more and more notorious and agrresive even towards me. My brother said that Lennon is very unstable and needs to be disciplined but I don't anticipate seeing Lennon getting "the harsh reality of being a dog" treatment just to make him understand. I've read up on the whole dominant dog issue and I think Lennon fits the description but yet Lennon can be a real coward at times befitting also the description of the defensive dog behavior. Down right to it, he is a real spoilt brat but he does understand that growling is wrong and he will shake in fear when I raise my voice with him and then he will show remorse and act like he is so afraid and need my acceptance by slowly crawling to me to get a hug. Bono is also spoilt rotten but Bono never shows and exhibits any of such behavior problems. Lennon is literally bullying Jagger and Jagger is like the exact replica of Lennon in his behavior like a mini Lennon and extra headache for me, though being only 6months old, Jagger do not back down from a challenge or confrontation started by Lennon. So they will end up fighting and bite each other. From what I read, I think Jagger is a defensive agrressive dog cos he never allows anyone to touch his front right paw and his ears is always tucked back and he seems to be always scared and he barks at any sound that he hears, this barking of his sometimes can provoke Lennon to go crazy. Other than that, the main reasons for them fighting is over my affection and attention, I realised that whenever Lennon is with me and I am petting him and hugging him, Jagger will be excited and would then try to get my attention and then Lennon will start to growl and then BANG, they will be sparring! When they spar, Lennon usually will go for Jagger's head and mouth and Jagger will bite Lennon's leg. It hurts a lot for me to see their bruises and looking at them all bleeding. I realised that when they fight they stand up on two legs and fight like Komodo Dragons and they just can't stop! What should I do with Lennon, how do I teach him to tolerate his brother. Please note that after each fight, they will iniate play with each other to licking each other and be like best friends. Also Lennon seems to realize that what he did is wrong but yet he repeats it and then when I finally "accept" him back he will lick me and bite my hand playfully to gain acceptance, well actually he will always lunge at me to lick me and put my hand into his mouth. Though, I love them all but Lennon's aggression is actually freaking me out, a simple petting to asking him to move when he is sleeping on my bed, to hugging him when he wakes up to just trying to hold him will result in him going bonkers and growling, he makes only the sound but not the face, he dun show his teeth and all and usually after that he will start shaking in fear and automatically run into his crate. Anyhow I hate to admit it but I am afraid that one day Lennon from his aggressive behavior confusion will end up snapping at me especially when he sleeps with me at nite, I am afraid that he might snap and then bite my neck or he would end up killing Jagger. Oh please do offer me some advice, I would really appreciate it, I really dunno what to do and this is Malaysia, I don't think I can find a professional trainer for help! Thank you.


Jun 11, 2006, 2:02 AM

Post #2 of 7 (10239 views)
Re: [Lpupsy] URGENT! My dogs are out of control! [In reply to] Can't Post

Same problem with me... so after all the tricks in the book, neutering and all... nothing worked. So we just seperated the dogs.

I'm thinking you older dog is just dominant. He sensed that your younger pup may become dominant one day and he wants him to know where he stands.

Your dog will not attack you for no reason. My boxer likes to jump on me and mouth my hands and play bite and this has gone on from puppy till now. Both my boxers are aggressive towards each other but towards my other dogs they are ok. What is the reason? It is coz of their age gap. If male dogs are less than 3 years apart, they will fight for dominance if one is a dominant dog. If the dogs are more than 3 years apart, you won't experience such behaviour so often.

Hitting and shouting won't help. To seperate fighting dogs, get leashes or ropes and make a loop to loop around their necks and pull apart. Another way is using a hose and spray cold water at them. Another way is pulling their tails but you gotta be fast. So far I have never been bitten by following these ways.

Maybe you should neuter both dogs, it may help.

Willy, my beloved shih tzu (22 March 1994- 8 August 2005) May you rest and live happily in Rainbow Bridge with the rest. You will forever be deeply missed by all.

Puppies and kittens, helpless and innocent are always roaming the streets as strays. Adopt from animal shelthers to save them.


Nov 10, 2006, 5:59 AM

Post #3 of 7 (10099 views)
Re: [crazymouse_yyh] URGENT! My dogs are out of control! [In reply to] Can't Post

Kill em b4 they killed someone...hmm joking lah.


Nov 10, 2006, 10:02 PM

Post #4 of 7 (10085 views)
Re: [Lpupsy] URGENT! My dogs are out of control! [In reply to] Can't Post

1) get a powerful spray gun, spray at their faces each time they fight, best is to spray even before they fight, u know?? when they circle each other?? u gotta have a good sense at their body languages

2) max up their exercises, tired dogs usually are not interested in fights anymore

good luck


ezekiel 25:17

Kevin Chuan

Nov 14, 2006, 8:56 PM

Post #5 of 7 (10071 views)
Re: [crazymouse_yyh] URGENT! My dogs are out of control! [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey Friend,

Long time I didn't post to you liao..., One thing good about AST/APBT is when they fight you can just pull them off and you will never get biten by them even they are not your dogs..., when these breed fight they will only go for their opponent, they are so concerntrate by one objective.... That is to put their opponent down.

Just want to make things clear... I am not involve in dog fighting, but due to I have 3 male AST..., sometime they do fight amoung themselves ... Unsure...

Dog Kichi

Dec 14, 2006, 7:15 PM

Post #6 of 7 (10015 views)
Re: [Lpupsy] URGENT! My dogs are out of control! [In reply to] Can't Post


Got aggressive pup problem too. Bought a book on training recently and i find it very useful in helping me to understand doggy behaviour so that i can better handle her aggression. It has a lot of pics so that u wont have any problems visualising what the author is trying to teach u. Cant remember the title and author. I'll check for u and let u know later.

Shouting and beating an already aggressive pup is a big no, no as it is perceived as a challenge and it js makes them even more agitated. When u say that ur dog shakes in fear, it already shows that he is under extreme stress and harsh treatment will only make it worse.

U have to be super calm to handle this type of bossy behaviour, stand tall, speak in a firm low tone which conveys a no nonsense message to ur dog. Do not panic even if u see them fighting, try the methods suggested by crazymouse and vinoviruz instead.

Think back, how did u react when ur dog first starting barking to get ur attention? If u made a big fuss (positive or negative), then most likely he has gotten the impression that this is the way to get a reaction from you. Read up on how to get ur dog to calm down before u give him any attention. That means no jumping or lunging on you.

Most important of all - Be Patient! It'll take some time to overcome this behaviour problem. Js be consistent with ur approach towards ur doggies.

Lady Eloise
Dog Kichi

Feb 25, 2007, 6:04 PM

Post #7 of 7 (9939 views)
Re: [Lpupsy] URGENT! My dogs are out of control! [In reply to] Can't Post

Leadership ---> Exercise---> Discipline----> Affection....


... Affection---> Discipline----> Exercise--->Leadership!

These are the formulas. See the difference. It seems to me your dogs are not well-balanced. You humanize them by showing too much affection than discipline. Now, they are being dominant figure toward you. In dogs world, they only listen to a pack leader which normally the mother! Therefore, you should begin by being a pack leader than a follower to them both. By the way, have you 'neutered; your dog?

Don't worry, you need to make sure these 4 elements met to keep your dogs balance and 'normal' again. Timetable and rules are needed to support those elements above. Without it you will have bigger problems. For example, in order to train your dog staying in harmony- both of them needs to be taken for exercises. Walking is the best exercise for dogs in this world because dog love to smell. Regardless they are small breed or type, dogs love to explore the smell and they want to keep on going and going. The best exercise is walking for 30 minutes at least around the neighborhood. Make sure they walk together on leash. This is important as your dogs seem to have accumulated bad 'energy'. It is called a cabin fever! You need to reduce their energy by walking. Make sure you train them how to walk nicely. Otherwise, they got frustrated and be more aggressive in the house and outside too. You have to correct before its too late! Thats why when your brother yelled, one of your dogs suddenly aggressive. It was a protest!!! We do not want a protest dog, we want calm and submissive dog which listen.

After exercise, then set rules and boundaries. This is the best time to teach commands, tricks and instructions. Dogs wont respect you if their level of energy are still high. There is no point of yelling when they have a lot of energy. Make sure they are tired especially after exercising then they will listen more. There is no excuse of not taking them for a walk everyday. Playing throwing or chasing a ball is NOT the same with walking. Fish supposed to swim, bird supposed to fly and dog supposed to walk!

One more thing, attention and touching are allowed only when they do good things or do listen to you. If you give them attention by stroking them, it is like saying to them..yes you are allowed to be bad. Don't overlook the power of touching. Your dog will misguide into believing that touching is like saying to them- Okay ...you 'allowed' to be bad. Then they will manipulate you. Give them treats every time they listen to you right there. Then you could praise them by touching whatever. If they behaving out of control, don't beat or yell them, say NO instead with your stern voice, then ignore. If the dogs keep on repeating, do it till they stop and get the idea. When they are playing quietly, give them rewards on the spot. Praise them or give them affection! Dogs do not like to be ignored thus they will suck up to you eventually. Don't be scared to say No or Sheeesssh! Make sure you have a lot of treats and create a timetable on when to sleep, when to play, quiet time or set priorities and boundaries according to your needs. Give them something to do like chew bones or Kong to make them busy. They are like kids, they need discipline. Goodluck.

PS: Reward good behavior, ignore bad behavior!!! Frown
Dog behaviorist.

(This post was edited by Lady Eloise on Feb 25, 2007, 6:41 PM)


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