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Dominant dog suddenly attacking my other dog!







misosangwoo
Novice


Apr 12, 2006, 10:04 AM

Post #1 of 6 (11525 views)
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Dominant dog suddenly attacking my other dog! Can't Post

Hi..

i have 2 dogs, one is Toby, i had him for 5 years, before Jacky came along.

they had no problem staying together for 4 years already
,the only time they will fight is during dinner time, so i have to tie Toby up when they are eating.. once i release him he'll go over to jacky's bowl and sniff at his bowl..or when they are both backed into a corner(small space) and toby will feel threathened and attack jacky..

anyway, recently he's started attacking Jacky for no reason! the minute i touch/pet Jacky, he'll get jealous anjd immediately POUNCE on him.. literally gets on top of him, jacky is a smaller dog.. and i have to spray them with the garden hose for them to stop.. it went on for a few days, until i had to tie toby up the whole time.. and i had to start ignoring jacky, and just giving toby all the attention...
i thought of seperating them.. but the funny thing is, he's stopped attacking jacky now..even though i hold him and pet him...

i wonder what the problem is??

is it because Toby is getting older? he's 8 years old now.. will he get more jealous and territorial as he gets older??

or was it because of the frog he ate?? the week b4 he started attacking Jacky, my dad caught toby eating a FRog.. does it have anything to do with the poison that made him become weird?!?


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Apr 12, 2006, 9:17 PM

Post #2 of 6 (11510 views)
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Re: [misosangwoo] Dominant dog suddenly attacking my other dog! [In reply to] Can't Post

 
" ... or was it because of the frog he ate?? the week b4 he started attacking Jacky, my dad caught toby eating a FRog.. does it have anything to do with the poison that made him become weird?!? ..."

Ah ... don't think its the frog Crazy

" ... is it because Toby is getting older? he's 8 years old now.. will he get more jealous and territorial as he gets older?? ..."

Could be ... dog dynamics & dog behaviour is not static & can change over time. This is more likely that the "frog" thing Smile.

" ... anyway, recently he's started attacking Jacky for no reason! the minute i touch/pet Jacky, he'll get jealous anjd immediately POUNCE on him.. literally gets on top of him, jacky is a smaller dog.. and i have to spray them with the garden hose for them to stop.. it went on for a few days, until i had to tie toby up the whole time.. and i had to start ignoring jacky, and just giving toby all the attention ... i thought of seperating them.. but the funny thing is, he's stopped attacking jacky now..even though i hold him and pet him ..."

As mentioned above, dog pack dynamics can undergo change over a period of time (even after years of apparent stability). That your dogs can fight over food - is indicative that Toby is dominant, and has always had need to assert that dominance over Jacky.

Maybe something occurred, and triggered Toby's more current and aggressive behaviour towards Jacky.

In such situations, the important thing is to re-establish "your" leadership over the pack. If you establish strong leadership, you should be able to control the 2 dogs, and bring relative peace back to the house.

How do you establish this leadership? ...

There are many ways of doing this. Very much depends on the personality of the owner too, it depends on how forceful the personality of the owner is. Asserting leadership is easier for some, and not so easy for others.

(a) Ignoring Toby is one step. Your doing so may have had the positive result you describe in your post. But do be careful because ignoring Toby may backfire and escalate the aggression. It depends.

Suggest this: The moment you see Toby growling at Jacky. Immediately collar & chain Toby to a secure area. Ignore Toby.

Do not release Toby until he has completely calmed down. When you release Toby, immediately go through some training exercise (see below).

But other than this, preserve the status quo between your dogs by (i) giving Toby the first treat, Jacky the second treat, and (ii) putting the food bowl down for Toby first, Jacky second, pet Toby first and Jacky second etc.

But if when you pet Toby and Jacky growls ... then repeat the above.

You want to teach Toby that being aggressive to Jacky is wrong, but without increasing Toby's tension against Jacky. Unless you have a forceful personality yourself, the above can be a bit of a balancing act.

(b) It may be a good idea to start a simple regime of training for Toby. For example: Starting training "NO, SIT & STAY" (use the search function to find more information on training). Don't worry, even 8yr old dogs can learn new tricks. By starting training ... you will be spending time with Toby ... this will appease his need for your attention. And even more important, you will be asserting your leadership over Toby. And teaching the command "NO". When you say "NO" - expect Toby to obey.

Finally - suggest you get a good training manual that teaches you how to keep peace in a household with multiple dogs.

Cheers


misosangwoo
Novice


Apr 17, 2006, 10:33 AM

Post #3 of 6 (11475 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Dominant dog suddenly attacking my other dog! [In reply to] Can't Post

thank u for your reply and advice..

i think i really need to spend time to train toby.. i'm not a good/firm owner.. really love my dogs & don't like to punish them.. but even when i do, they dun seem to listen !

when i first had toby, i bought some dog training books to teach him some commands..but he just doesn't get it!maybe i'm not firm enuff..so for 8 years i just left him like dat,

he's very hostile to strangers so we just tie him up when guests visit.he knows how to "sit" only.. n he's quite a cowardly dog, when i beat him, he'll become timid and inch away from me. he's very scared of thunder..

but ever since jacky came, he gets jealous and dominant..
theres no problem until feeding time..

jacky likes to run into the house.. and he won't go out even tho we beat him.. i'll have to either carry him out, or drag him all the way..he'll plop on the floor and lie there.
the problem is, toby gets jealous when he sees jacky in the hse, he'll be waiting at the door to attack jacky when he gets out.. so i have to tie him up and drag jacky out..
sometimes when my dad beats/scolds him, hewill go out by himself, but he's to go out cos TOby is just there waiting to pounce on him..
how do i solve this problem?!???

Just now, when my sis came back, jacky ran into the hse again.. so i tied toby up and drag jacky out..
toby normally will calm down after a while, then i'll release him..
but as i did, he growled at jacky and they started fighting..
i didn't know what to do to stop them, normally i use water but the car was blocking, so i tried to pull toby away by his collar, but the problem now, jacky wanted to fight back and didn't want to let go! normally he would be the victim and toby the aggresor...
anyway, bad decision by me, as toby turned his head he bit my palm..
i got a puncture wound and blood came spewing out..eventually i managed to tie him and then they stopped..
the wound is not that deep but some flesh came out(omg)
just went to see the doc..

i know toby only bit me cos i tried to break the fight..

what's the best thing to stop the dogs from fighting??
( right now prevention is the cure.. i have to stop situations like jacky running into the hse from happening)


(This post was edited by misosangwoo on Apr 17, 2006, 10:43 AM)


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Apr 18, 2006, 1:15 AM

Post #4 of 6 (11455 views)
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Re: [misosangwoo] Dominant dog suddenly attacking my other dog! [In reply to] Can't Post

Ahhh ... think you need to appreciate the following:

(a) Not training a dog DOES NOT do the dog any favours. An untrained, unsocialised dog can be difficult to control/handle and runs risk of being abandoned by the family/owner.

(b) Loving a dog, does not mean you do not train the dog.

In fact, if you really love your dog, you must accept the responsibility for training & socialising your dog. Just like good parents accept responsibility for their children's behaviour, a good pet owner must accept the same responsibility. And just like children, puppies & dogs need to learn how to behave within a household.

(c) Do not confuse training with punishment. Most effective methods of training/teaching a dog does not require physical punishment.

I do not know what kind of training books you have but training a dog DOES NOT REQUIRE HITTING THE DOG! ... Hitting the dog does not make for effective or responsible training, and can make a dog behave even more badly.






QUESTION: what's the best thing to stop the dogs from fighting?? ( right now prevention is the cure.. i have to stop situations like jacky running into the hse from happening)

As mentioned above, the best way to stop 2 dogs from fighting is for the owner to exercise firm & reasonable leadership over the dogs.

Try the method I posted above, to get some basic control over the situation.

Unfortunately, it is very difficult to offer substantial "solutions" to situations such as yours, over a forum like this, and without more information.





LEARNING HOW TO TRAIN:

Establishing good & responsible leadership starts with YOU learning about how to train your dog in the proper manner without need to hit your dog. So, please get a good dog training manual. Read the manual carefully & properly.

AND start applying the training techniques to train your dogs.

Please check the website below for suggestions on a good dog training manual. Many of the books listed are available in the bigger bookshops in KL ... eg: MPH at Mid Valley or Kinukoniya at KLCC.

www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A383ABZY40JIYO/104-0911708-8611125

If you know an "experienced" dog owner. And the key word is "experienced" - get the person over to your house to give advice & assist.

Alternatively, you can call PAWS and ask for assistance, and/or enrol your dogs (and yourself) into a dog training course. Check with Admin of Puppy.Com.

Cheers


(This post was edited by surchinmy on Apr 18, 2006, 1:25 AM)


misosangwoo
Novice


Apr 18, 2006, 1:29 AM

Post #5 of 6 (11453 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Dominant dog suddenly attacking my other dog! [In reply to] Can't Post

the book i have is actually "idiots guide to choosing, training and raising a dog" ..!

It's really difficult to train Toby, bcos he can be very very stubborn..

when giving treats, i can't give Toby first and JAcky second, i have to give them both at the same time, cos toby will eat his, then eat jacky's ..sometimes jacky won't even come near me for the treat, bcos he's scared toby will attack him.

some history abt my two dogs..

Jacky is more gentle but also very aggresive towards strangers as well.. i can handle jacky when i bring him to the vet, but not Toby.

Jacky is a stray dog that we adopted , but Toby grew up with us since he was a few days old( found him abandoned in a drain, his mom is a stray as well).

Jacky actually has a jekyl and hyde syndrom.. very aggressive towards strangers, barks really loud, and i know he might even bite when attacked( even though he's smaller, toby is the one that gets bloody from scratches, but i know he'll never bite me. very good with me and the family.He likes to run away from the hse and go roaming outside, but he'll always come back to the hse..

As for toby, he can be wagging his tail and looks very friendly, but he'll bite and attack strangers who tries to go near him..

anyway, i'll try to get a better Training manual and Start again!! thanks again. and i don't know any other experienced pet owner.. i heard that proffesional trainers punish dogs during training.. is it true? if it is, i can't bear to bring them for that kind of training.

i don't really beat him, just his his backside with my hand..or from the books advice, rolled up newspaper..


(This post was edited by misosangwoo on Apr 18, 2006, 1:33 AM)


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Apr 19, 2006, 8:22 AM

Post #6 of 6 (11430 views)
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Re: [misosangwoo] Dominant dog suddenly attacking my other dog! [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi ...

Please let me start by saying that it's not my intention to be rude or hurtful ... but I do wish to be straightforward, for the sake of your dogs ... and their welfare.

" ... the book i have is actually "idiots guide to choosing, training and raising a dog" ..!"

I know the book above, it is not bad. But you are right - you may need to get another dog training book. Suggest you get a book that teaches the "praise & reward" method of training. Check out the Amazon website and read the reviews, and try to find the books you select, in a local bookshop. Most of the bigger book shops will even order books for you.

" ... It's really difficult to train Toby, bcos he can be very very stubborn .."

Puppies & dogs are generally not difficult to train. If or when a dog becomes difficult to train or behaves badly, then (from our experience) in 90% of the cases - the problem lies with the owner, NOT the dog.

Honestly - we think it's much more difficult to change a bad/poor owner's mindset than it is to train or teach a dog.

" ... when giving treats, i can't give Toby first and JAcky second, i have to give them both at the same time, cos toby will eat his, then eat jacky's ..sometimes jacky won't even come near me for the treat, bcos he's scared toby will attack him ..."

For your situation - I would strongly suggest that you only train one dog at a time (do not try to train the dogs together) ... For example: Place one dog at the back of the house, and then take the other dog to the front for the house for 30minute training session ... and then rotate the dogs. To begin with you should try and spend that 30minutes with each dog EVERY DAY. Read the training manual and plan out a 3 month training programme ... do the standard ... SIT, STAY & RECALL training.

" ... Jacky is more gentle but also very aggresive towards strangers as well.. i can handle jacky when i bring him to the vet, but not Toby. Jacky is a stray dog that we adopted , but Toby grew up with us since he was a few days old (found him abandoned in a drain, his mom is a stray as well) ..."

You have my respect & gratitute for having given homes to 2 stray dogs ... Smile ... but now you need to learn how to teach your dogs to live well within a human environment.

" ... i don't really beat him, just his his backside with my hand..or from the books advice, rolled up newspaper ..."


Aaah ... if hitting his backside with a rolled up newspaper is not physical punishment - what is?

" ... Jacky actually has a jekyl and hyde syndrom.. very aggressive towards strangers, barks really loud, and i know he might even bite when attacked (even though he's smaller, toby is the one that gets bloody from scratches, but i know he'll never bite me. very good with me and the family. He likes to run away from the hse and go roaming outside, but he'll always come back to the hse ... As for toby, he can be wagging his tail and looks very friendly, but he'll bite and attack strangers who tries to go near him ..."

From your description, there does not seem to be anything overtly wrong with Jacky or Toby. BUT that said, they both need discipline and require a programme of socialisation & training ... to curb their tendency to bite.

Barking at strangers & being fearful of strangers (are not uncommon traits in strays) - they are simply part of a stray's survival instincts. But those instincts can modified and reduced through proper socialisation & training. From what you write, it is likely that your dogs are biting because of "nervousness" rather than outright aggression (which is much much more serious).

You need to learn a little about dog behaviour and dog psychology. *** Again check the Amazon website for books.

" ... and i don't know any other experienced pet owner.. i heard that proffesional trainers punish dogs during training.. is it true? if it is, i can't bear to bring them for that kind of training ..."

Professional and good trainers will not "punish" the dogs training under them. I cannot speak for "bad" trainers.

But I am not suggesting that you send your dogs to a professional trainer. I am suggesting that you take YOURSELF and your dogs to attend dog training classes, where you can learn how to train your dogs. As I understand, Puppy.Com has organised training classes for owners & dogs. Please check with Admin.

I wish you all the best. It is my sincere hope that you start training your dogs before the situation becomes worse, or something unfortunate happens ... You must teach your dogs not to bite.

Cheers Smile


(This post was edited by surchinmy on Apr 19, 2006, 8:29 AM)

 
 




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