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Physical Punishment, YES or NO ?





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Poll: Physical Punishment, YES or NO ?
Yes
No
Not sure
View Results (315 votes)
 

snoopdog
K9 Kaki


Sep 5, 2003, 12:49 AM

Post #26 of 78 (20697 views)
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Re: [Khoobg] Physical Punishment, YES or NO ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi everyone,

I'm not sure about my punishment is physical or not. Me and hubby do not use our hands because when you're angry, you don't know your own strength. Sometimes you might hit them too hard and it could cause internal injuries. Me & hubby we use 40sen rotan on Dome. It's quite painful but quite effective. We only rotan him once when he does something which he knows he's not suppose to do. Repeat rotan-ning is a no-no for Dome..i don't want him to be sacred of me and later don't want to sayang me anymore.Frown


mochacappucino
Enthusiast


Sep 12, 2003, 1:41 AM

Post #27 of 78 (20682 views)
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Re: [snoopdog] Physical Punishment, YES or NO ? [In reply to] Can't Post

I cannot really give a definite answer for this. So I voted for "not sure".

What I do with my Mocha girl now is --- Hitting once is enough to tell her that she has done something wrong. On the other hand, a treat for her will mean that she has done something right !

When using the rotan (and if you get carried away, being angry and all), you might hit the poor thing more than once since your hands do not feel the pain. If you feel the pain on your own hand, you will definite stop hitting and will feel sorry for your furkid. You will most probably think twice before hitting her again as it really hurts (you do not just pat the dog you know).

And yet, some argue that a change in tone alone may be sufficient to let the dog know that you are unhappy. Basically the dog can really identify your mood. When you sound angry, I don't think your furkid will come to you.

There is actually a book about using positive training methods instead of abusive methods. This usually involves giving rewards and being more patient with your furkids.


doodle
ALPHA


Sep 14, 2003, 12:15 AM

Post #28 of 78 (20678 views)
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Re: [snoopdog] Physical Punishment, YES or NO ? [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree with you about not knowing our own strength.

Sometimes when we are stressed, we tend to slam the door or tear our assignment papers to pieces.

Imagine we did to our dog...

I think it is ok if you hit him once just to warn him...Let him know that it is wrong.


alvin
Novice


Sep 17, 2003, 2:51 AM

Post #29 of 78 (20666 views)
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Re: [Khoobg] Physical Punishment, YES or NO ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Unsure No to physical punishment eventhough he has rearranged your entire garden or furniture....which my little Beagle often do... However, I am guilty of spanking him when he is extremely naughty but I get all torn inside if he yelps.... So, I will just resort to "firm" voice....which does not work all the time.... but what to do...?

It takes patience.....lots of patience....


PSD
ALPHA


Sep 18, 2003, 7:17 PM

Post #30 of 78 (20658 views)
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Re: [doodle] Physical Punishment, YES or NO ? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
i m not too sure whether which is the right way or which works better. But how come some people who don't hit their dogs are still able to train them.
Does those Australian that I saw hit their dogs too in order for them to sit quietly outside waiting for their ownder?
What about police force?
Just curious.


Khoo,
This is a good topic. My say is that no Puppy or dog should be exposed to compulsions for disipline. The dog must show 100% understanding of the command before you choose to use compulsion. At this stage every one is going to say that their dog understands......(to explain this needs another topic of discussion)

Compulsions are used only in the instance of dog already 100% knows the command but chose to disobey. This is mostly used in police training and also protection sports and also OB sports. This ensures reliability as for instance a Police service dog must not fail a command during patrol work or a high level competition dog must not fail a command.

So in this case I would say

No - to unfair and uneducated physical punishment

Yes- necessary for police/military and high level sports dog for reliability once the command is 100% understood.


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 18, 2003, 8:08 PM

Post #31 of 78 (20655 views)
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Re: [PSD] Physical Punishment, YES or NO ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi PSD, Smile

Just wondering are you in the Police/Military Force??

In Malaysia??


PSD
ALPHA


Sep 18, 2003, 9:22 PM

Post #32 of 78 (20650 views)
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Re: [cshellz] Physical Punishment, YES or NO ? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Hi PSD, Smile

Just wondering are you in the Police/Military Force??

In Malaysia??


cshellz,

No. Sorry if the callsign misguided you. I am more into high tempremented GSD's that will be easily trainable as sports dogs, pets and yes police and military quality as well. I'm here to contribute some thoughts and share opinions as best I can in a hope that everyone can benefit from it. Yeah I think I sounded serious but some topics I donno how not to be. Hope it has been helpful.


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 19, 2003, 12:02 AM

Post #33 of 78 (20644 views)
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Re: [PSD] Physical Punishment, YES or NO ? [In reply to] Can't Post

hi PSD Smile

Heheh...thanks for the explanation. U see, most of us here have been here for some time so we sorta know who's who. So when a new person as knowledgeable as u join the forum, naturally we're all curious to know a bit more about you. Hope you don't mind Wink

Well, a belated welcome to the forum to you. Hope you can continue in discussions and continue to contribute your knowledge & opinions as it will definitely benefit many of us.

Most importantly, have fun!! Cool


PSD
ALPHA


Sep 19, 2003, 1:04 AM

Post #34 of 78 (20640 views)
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Re: [cshellz] Physical Punishment, YES or NO ? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
hi PSD Smile

Heheh...thanks for the explanation. U see, most of us here have been here for some time so we sorta know who's who. So when a new person as knowledgeable as u join the forum, naturally we're all curious to know a bit more about you. Hope you don't mind Wink

Well, a belated welcome to the forum to you. Hope you can continue in discussions and continue to contribute your knowledge & opinions as it will definitely benefit many of us.

Most importantly, have fun!! Cool


Blush Knowledge can be found if only we know where to look for. Anyone can be knowledgeble if use the curiosity to research some materials and practise and experiment it. I'm certainly not the most knowledgeble person here as I'm still researching. Many thanks you look so highly of me. If my thoughts can help more to be a responsible dog owners, I shall continue to post here. Thanks for your welcome. i appreciate it greatly.


Amanda85
Doggyman


Oct 29, 2003, 9:55 PM

Post #35 of 78 (20586 views)
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Re: [alvin] Physical Punishment, YES or NO ? [In reply to] Can't Post

sometimes kinki tends to be naughty. maybe digging , fight with my terrier , bark for attention and etc.

so everytime i'll shout a 'NO'. hold up her paw and scold her for a few minutes. and then i'll chain her up (or put in the crate) for about one or two hours. this work for my dog. coz i think everydogs dislike being chain up.


doberman
ALPHA


Nov 18, 2003, 12:47 AM

Post #36 of 78 (20556 views)
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Re: [Khoobg] Physical Punishment, YES or NO ? [In reply to] Can't Post

urmmm...for me ar.... depents...if the dogs really naughty, then he need to b punished so that he knows who is thier master...am i rite??


Zoe
Novice


Jan 13, 2004, 8:06 AM

Post #37 of 78 (20517 views)
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Re: [doberman] Physical Punishment, YES or NO ? [In reply to] Can't Post

I used physical punishment on my previous dog - a GR/Spitz mix rescued fr SPCA. Not as intelligent but v faithful. He turned out to obey/listen to me more because of fear than trust. There's not much free will on his part. Most times I have to yell 'NO'. I dont like that.

With Zoe, a pure bred (thus shd be more intelligent?), I decided to change track. Totally non-physical punishment, just deprivation of love/affection and showing of displeasure. Also, 'No' is only said as a last resort. She's rewarded with priases - 'cleaver girl', 'good girl'. She learn to recognize 'Dont do that' to stop certain actions immediately eg biting, chewing, digging. 'I dont like' - after the fact chastising. 'Stop', 'Im tired', 'buzy' - no more games. The second last severe words are 'You never listen' & 'Zoe naughty'. Usually the roll of newpaper is already in my hands. A short lecture & deprivation of love follows for 5 mins. If all else fails, the 'No' is used which means stop everyting and return to base (where I am). Usually a fairly long lecture follows. Nvm she wont understand my gibberish nags, the fact that I'm not happy with her is good enuf. If the newpaper is in my hands, I'll be smacking it against my hand/tighs or something.

The 1st apporach with Daniel is v effective, the totally opposite track with Zoe is not as effective, she sometimes disobeys the 1st few warnings until the 'Never listen' comes out.

But at least Zoe has a more independent character compared to Daniel. She comes to me when called but not always - like having to climb the flight of stairs to sleep in the room. She'll still obey if I insist. I can 'force' Daniel to drink water but Zoe will only do that if she's somewhat thirsty.

So, I like my second appoach better. And it shows that no physical punishment is required to get yr dog to learn to obey you. But the second method requires more patience and a lot of refrain to immediately use the word 'No' for every non desirable actions.


terenceg
Member


Jan 29, 2004, 7:42 PM

Post #38 of 78 (20499 views)
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Re: [Zoe] Physical Punishment, YES or NO ? [In reply to] Can't Post

physical punishment i think, should be depended on sizes of doggie...

i don't think i can hold a great dane and shout NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO..... but a small light smack at the butt should be sufficient instead of a tyson punch.

then again,

a NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO would do the trick to toy doggie..............

maybe wrong :) maybe right....


a_evie
Doggyman


Jan 30, 2004, 12:09 AM

Post #39 of 78 (20496 views)
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Re: [terenceg] Physical Punishment, YES or NO ? [In reply to] Can't Post

my answer has to be a yes and no.

yes for physical ounishement when the mistake is repeated over and over again. sometimes i reckon shalom repeats her mistakes because she is lazy i.e. lazy to walk to her peepoo place or even too busy playing thus forgetting where to peepoo.

no when you know its a doggie thing to do like sniff another doggie's backside or burying bones.

and even in the case of physical punishment, shalom gets smacks on the bum and yes light smacks on the mouth for eating poop.

am thinking of getting a cane for threats rather than spank purposes...i trried rolling newspapers but the rascal took that quite offensively and refused to peepoo on newspapers for the next few days when i started the newspaper as a threat.

have had friends who caned their doggies once only and thereafter they were obedient. and would only require a stern NO. eventually the cane became like a prop...when they do not respond to the NO the cane is shown and doggie stops all nonsence. in fact one friend also resorts to face the wall when you have beeen naughty. worked well on him thus far.

am keen to trry that out again when my friend joins me for a break next month. i've tried the face the wall trick but shalom looked away the moment i walked away.

as for love and attention deprivation...it works for shalom only a short while. someetimes i don't even bother to reprimand her. just clean up her mess, send her back into her room, switch off the lights and ignore her. its tough....coz she would give you the extremely pitiful look. and yes, she will trry to pacify you back by standing up and looking at me real hard each time i have to walk by her room (shalom has the whole bathroom to herself with the door open).


jaytan
Canine Addict


Feb 21, 2004, 7:58 PM

Post #40 of 78 (20393 views)
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Re: [a_evie] Physical Punishment, YES or NO ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Evie, of course NO to violence against dogs, causing fear, aggressiveness or submissiveness. But I vote YES to physical punishment as part of the way we relate with our dogs.

Firstly, dogs are physical animals and often relate rough with each other. That is the way they communicate. If my dog bites my hand I will slap it to show it is not acceptable behaviour. My doggie learns the same way as from relating with its siblings. Sometimes your dog is distracted or just ignores you. A whack on the rump will get the dog's attention. I guess this is more relating physically than punishment as such.

Secondly, dogs are clever and they will call your bluff. Sometimes you can NOOOO till you lose your voice and your dog will do as it wishes. You must be able to back up the commands, treats and leadership. When my doggie escapes its leash and runs off, I have to let it know my displeasure by beating it. Otherwise it may conclude that it is fine and make it a habit. Anyway, it is not worse than being run over by a car. I imagine that a wolf pack leader will fight or even kill to assert itself.

Thirdly, physical punishment is clearer and less harmful than psychological or emotional violence. Food and attention deprivation can also make your pet manupilative and sneaky to survive the psycho war you created. I would prefer my babies to be secure with me. They have to know that you will be there for them. You will feed them. You will come back later when you leave them. You will let them out shortly when you crate them. Although you will beat them if they do wrong.

Please, I dont mean anyone can let off steam in violence. As handlers we have to be very clear what we are doing and our doggies also have to know our intentions. Then the pack can function well. Otherwise, more problems will be created. Best regards, J


sun-arrow
Member

Feb 23, 2004, 11:07 PM

Post #41 of 78 (20390 views)
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Re: [edser] Physical Punishment, YES or NO ? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
usually we shout NO!! but if the mistake is big then have to beat already. Wink





same as you.


a_evie
Doggyman


Feb 25, 2004, 11:51 PM

Post #42 of 78 (20386 views)
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Re: [jaytan] Physical Punishment, YES or NO ? [In reply to] Can't Post

quite a lot of people have problems differentiating btw violence on their pets and disciplining.

there was one neighbour of my sis that had caned / smacked the spitz so hard that i remember seeing the poor dog limped ever after. strangely...no matter what happens, the doggie is still so faithful to that nasty man.

i have not bought the cane yet. no heart to buy it...so have to contend myself with calling shalom in her chinse name when she misbehaves...and oddly she responds very well to her chinse name and stops all nonsense.

i'll see how she progresses...if she really turns too difficult to control, i mau well resort to buying a cane.

as for sitting to face the wall...i did it on her a couple of times when she peed on the floor immediately after i have washed her bathroom...ok ok...she did not really sit to face teh wall after i left her bathroom but she remained in that spot that i placed her to face the wall until someone calls her or distracts her. and the first thing she does next is to pee correctly and then run to me to let me know that she has done it right this time. normally she would either run to me and then run back to her bathroom until i walk to her bathroom. no barks...only barks when she has pooped.


jaytan
Canine Addict


Feb 26, 2004, 6:11 AM

Post #43 of 78 (20381 views)
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Re: [a_evie] Physical Punishment, YES or NO ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Evie, it is very funny for Shalom to respond to her chinese name like a NO command. Maybe I should give my puppies chinese names too but I can only think of seow kou and huai tan, hehehe.

Er, may I suggest you dont buy that cane. Just use a rolled up magazine if newspaper complicates your training, or just use your palm. Papers are light and wont hurt but makes a loud noise and will startle for effect. If you use an open palm you can feel your own strength. I feel a cane is like a stick which can be harmful if really used. I know you dont intend to really use it, but fear one day your doggie will challenge you to back up your threat. Or maybe someone else may use it just because it was available. Best regards,J


a_evie
Doggyman


Mar 2, 2004, 10:58 PM

Post #44 of 78 (20343 views)
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Re: [jaytan] Physical Punishment, YES or NO ? [In reply to] Can't Post

went to the pasar malam for 2 weeks consequtively...saw the cane and just didn't have the heart to buy...so i'm back to smacking my own thigh to make the loud noise if necessary.

magazines don't work either...they must smell like newspaper....coz i used the ma and she refused to peepoo on the newspaper.

you can try the names ke ai (a friend of mine is actually named ke ai by her parents)...don't lah use huaitan...the kid will surely turn into a rascal due to his or her name.


rocz
Member


Mar 14, 2004, 7:03 PM

Post #45 of 78 (20327 views)
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Re: [Khoobg] Physical Punishment, YES or NO ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Well...in my opinion may be is a yes...coz my mastiff only listen to me but not my wife in certain behaviour....he never try biting me while playing with me but when he plays with my wife he likes to bitely softly...

and also most of the time i m the only one who can command him ...so i think that may be for a stubborn dog thats not avoidable...(especially big breed),coz u really have to show him who is the master at the time of his stubbornness rather than let it be n see wat to do next!


melissa
ALPHA


Apr 6, 2004, 10:28 PM

Post #46 of 78 (20091 views)
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Re: [Khoobg] Physical Punishment, YES or NO ? [In reply to] Can't Post

I love my dogs but I do agree on minor punishment.

Yes - on minor punishment
No - for physical punishment which will hurt the dog physically and mentally.

My experience : my lab likes to chew our shoes although she got sufficient toys to play with and your question may ask, why you leave your shoes on the floor for her to bite? We have been trying very hard to put the shoes sky up but she will take any opportunity to take the shoe if we have forgotten to put it into cabinet. We have no choice but have to 'implement' minor punishment and now, we don't even need to hide our shoes as she has stopped taking our shoes for chewing anymore. I do agree on minor punishment that doesn't hurt the dog just like my parent beat me when I was a kid if I had done something terrible wrong Blush.


putra
Member


Apr 13, 2004, 11:52 PM

Post #47 of 78 (20035 views)
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Re: [melissa] Physical Punishment, YES or NO ? [In reply to] Can't Post

No laa, pity the doggy. we must understand them.


DannyChan79
Novice


May 14, 2004, 1:31 AM

Post #48 of 78 (19924 views)
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Re: [Khoobg] Physical Punishment, YES or NO ? [In reply to] Can't Post

When i was a young kid, i lived in canada with my family. We bought a german shepard which is about 1 year old. We bought it fully trained. U could not imagine how good it was trained. It wouldn't yet anything that we didnt gave it. When we said stay, it would stay. Even when u walked about 100meter away. The way the trainer trained it, he didnt use any force or physical punishment. The trainer told me, if the dog didnt listen, just squat in front of it, hold it firmly by its head and say' BAD boy' using a very firm voice while staring into its eyes. Youmust not have any feeling of fear.

Then when i came back to malaysia. We bought another dog. This time it was a Rott. My dad hired an ex K9 police officer to train the dog. Now the method this guy used was totally opposite. He used the choke chain method. To train the dog to sit, he pulled the choke and pushed it to the sit position after giving it the sit command. He did it a few times. After that when he gave the sit command, and the dog was slow to reply, he would pull the choke so hard, it could kill a 9 year old child. He used this method to train all the other command. The rott was also very good.

So both methods can give the same result. But from my experience, the physical method makes the dog scared. The dog will do things because he is scared at u. While the method without physical punishment makes a dog happy and willing to do what u ask of it.


Bull Lover
Doggyman


Jun 8, 2004, 6:40 PM

Post #49 of 78 (19325 views)
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Re: [Khoobg] Physical Punishment, YES or NO ? [In reply to] Can't Post

hi! i cannt say physical punishment couldn't train out good dog, but i am more believe in if u build up a close relationship with ur doggie and let them know u r the alpha, ur doggie will follow what u ask for.

physical punishment will make the dog scare of u, he will not have happy life, because everything is in force..

this is the 1st time i have my 'OWN' bully. before i only play and train my friend dogs when i go over... i don't punished them at all, and i am not always with them.. they still do everything i ask for and just looking for my sayang... even they are only mongrels, still make good friend...

now my bully will not have any reaction with physical punishment.. his skin is just really thick haha, if i slap his thigh..he becouse more excited..(maybe i didn't slap as strong as others ppl do, but i feel its strong enough for me and him.. i one slap him, he will sit on the floor..), but it doesn't work on my bully. when he done something that is not welcome, i just talk with him with an angry voice, i don't have to yell on him, just talk in an unhappy voice, maybe normally i talk softly like talking to a baby to my bully so he can differetiate and know his action is not welcome.

this can cool him down and he will stop doing the same thing.. although he will do it again once he forgot... but i know he will learn slowly.

physical punishment can control the doggie, but our kids will not be happy to do things... we want our kids to be happy, aren't we?


(This post was edited by Bull Lover on Jun 8, 2004, 6:55 PM)


alicehc1980
Novice

Jun 15, 2004, 2:52 AM

Post #50 of 78 (19137 views)
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Re: [Bull Lover] Physical Punishment, YES or NO ? [In reply to] Can't Post

I dun know whether YES / NOT! BUt most of the time i agree that the physical punishment is really can train up them .By the way , sometime is not. Just like my furkid it almost 8 months no matter how i give encouragement / sayang .......... it's still like to bite my shoes.......... especially the new shoes!!!

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