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Home: Dog Sports, Schutzhund, Protection, Tracking,.....: Schutzhund & Protection Dogs:
Bite





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RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Nov 20, 2003, 11:24 AM

Post #1 of 53 (21104 views)
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Bite Can't Post

Hi guys,Smile

I know this topic might seem petty..but I'm really keen on learning more. How do encourage a dog to bite using his whole mouth?(that's the way of biting right?) Now, my dog does bite but sometimes he uses just his front teeth. I would put the cloth/tug tuy at the back of his mouth, where the molars are so that he can get a proper bite..but sometimes it doesn't get bitten on very hard and ends up at his front teeth.

When he gets a full mouthful, I make sure he really has fun tugging and biting...sort of a way to praise him. Is this correct?Crazy

Any tips to help me out?

Sometimes, when he wants to,he'll hv a good grip,move his neck and i'll lose my balance and fall.

Constructive replies very much appreciated. Thanks in advance Smile
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(_o_)



PSD
ALPHA


Nov 20, 2003, 10:20 PM

Post #2 of 53 (21094 views)
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Re: [RealityDreamer] Bite [In reply to] Can't Post

RD,

Dog training revolves on the concepts of "dog give us our agenda, we reward them on their agenda"

Bite training is a series of foundation. Each step like in other training must be solid before we move on to another. To make a dog to bite is simple to make a dog to bite full and calm is tricky. I can share with you the basics but it will take years of experience to come near to mastering.

Play tug with a piece of rag. The idea is to create prey which is a series of non threatening fast movement onto the rag away from the dog or sideways to the dog. The dog will bite...maybe with front teeth. Hold with a bit of pressure just enough not to pull the rag out of the mouth. When the dog counters or adjust the hold to fuller bite, quickly release the tug. The dog wins the prey. That is reward. The dog will start to enjoy the winning and u increase the criteria. This time one counter you dont release, you continue to fight then 2-3 counters later you release. Once the rags play is solid, you can switch prey items into something like a tug or a ball on string. Start like step one again and build it up.

If you are doing it correctly and that your dog has the right drives then the full mouth will develop....this is just tip of the iceberg.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Nov 21, 2003, 12:18 AM

Post #3 of 53 (21087 views)
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Re: [PSD] Bite [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks very much for the tip. Will be trying that..looks like I've been doing it wrong. Smile
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(_o_)



PSD
ALPHA


Nov 21, 2003, 12:57 AM

Post #4 of 53 (21084 views)
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Re: [RealityDreamer] Bite [In reply to] Can't Post

Ont thing I forgot to tell you. Develop it challenging ehough but also slowly. It takes time to be really solid. Some dogs needs up to 2-3 months of rag work before getting the idea. The timing is important to make the dog learn faster. Only release when the dog counters and immediately. Dont even lose 2 seconds.

Good luck.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


mhazman
Member

Nov 21, 2003, 2:20 AM

Post #5 of 53 (21080 views)
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Re: [RealityDreamer] Bite [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi RD,
Don't tire out the dog. Stop when he's asking for more. The next time he'll be on a higher drive.Look for signs of stress like growling and don't push beyond that.Build on the confidence and targetting the bite.
Its quite enjoyable when your dog bites well.

Azman


RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Nov 21, 2003, 7:53 AM

Post #6 of 53 (21069 views)
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Re: [mhazman] Bite [In reply to] Can't Post

hi Smile

Wait...I'm suppose to stop when he wants more? LIke when he's all excited abt the game?Crazy And at the peak of it?

Any other stress signs?

Thanks for you inputSmile
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(_o_)



RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Nov 21, 2003, 7:55 AM

Post #7 of 53 (21068 views)
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Re: [PSD] Bite [In reply to] Can't Post

Note taken..thanksSmile
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(_o_)



mhazman
Member

Nov 21, 2003, 5:58 PM

Post #8 of 53 (21058 views)
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Re: [RealityDreamer] Bite [In reply to] Can't Post

RD,

Sent u n email.

Azman


PSD
ALPHA


Nov 21, 2003, 7:19 PM

Post #9 of 53 (21056 views)
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Re: [mhazman,RD] Bite [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Don't tire out the dog. Stop when he's asking for more. The next time he'll be on a higher drive.Look for signs of stress like growling and don't push beyond that.Build on the confidence and targetting the bite.
Its quite enjoyable when your dog bites well.



Yup, This is important. All training should stop at the dogs highest peak be it OB or bite work. Must learn the avoid the "maybe one more time syndrom" which a lot of newbie finds it hard to resist.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


PSD
ALPHA


Nov 21, 2003, 7:30 PM

Post #10 of 53 (21054 views)
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Re: [RealityDreamer] Bite [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Any other stress signs?



Stress onto the dog can come from your own postures, movements of prey and environment. It is therefore important to address your own postures first. For one during prey work never give direct eye contact staring into the dog. Some dogs are more sensitive to tht. Also do not prey fight the dog with your shoulder square to the dog(means not facing him frontal). You should always adjust yourself to face him by the side of your body during prey work. The movements of prey is always away and sideways to the dog. Prey do not move directly into the dog. So if you lets say "lastic the new dog directly into the face with the rug it will bring defensive drive into the dog and too much too soon, some dogs will break. Environmental chances like diff places, diff crowds add stress onto the dog too. So the dog performance will not be the same when these stress are around. We must then revert back to step one if these stress are introduced in a controlled manner.

I didn't answer you exactly as per your Q but perhaps this will help u understand also.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


Kowpa
Member

Nov 21, 2003, 7:53 PM

Post #11 of 53 (21050 views)
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Re: [PSD] Bite [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

Quote
Any other stress signs?

When u see your dog yawning this is the sign of stress, licking the lips, the look from the eyes, the dog's body posture, the whiskers too stand straight is aggression and too far down is fear to be able to see stress thru the whisker u must understand your dog and experience.



PSD
ALPHA


Nov 21, 2003, 11:40 PM

Post #12 of 53 (21040 views)
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Re: [Kowpa] Bite [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
When u see your dog yawning this is the sign of stress, licking the lips, the look from the eyes, the dog's body posture, the whiskers too stand straight is aggression and too far down is fear to be able to see stress thru the whisker u must understand your dog and experience.



Kowpa,

Excellent!!! I think this answers RD question more specifically. To add, some dogs pee, some dogs air scenting, some dog will smell the grass. When the dog reach avoidence level, usually they become displaced and will show a 3rd behaviour which has nothing to do with the situation at all. This sometimes happen to many dogs if the training is not correct or the dog does not have the genetics for the work. Agreed with you that it takes some experience to be a ble to read the dog correctly.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Nov 22, 2003, 9:45 AM

Post #13 of 53 (21029 views)
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Re: [mhazman] Bite [In reply to] Can't Post

Got it..and replied Smile
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(_o_)



RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Nov 22, 2003, 9:56 AM

Post #14 of 53 (21028 views)
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Re: [PSD] Bite [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you for the tips. Nvr knew that. Will change the position. Anything more that i should be aware of that might help? or any website explaining this? Any interesting working dog forums?

"I didn't answer you exactly as per your Q but perhaps this will help u understand also. "

don't bother abt not exactly answering..as long as it helps SmileSmileSmile
,-._,-.
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(_o_)



RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Nov 22, 2003, 10:07 AM

Post #15 of 53 (21026 views)
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Re: [Kowpa] Bite [In reply to] Can't Post

hmm..think i got the idea.

What abt the body posture? What/How is his posture? Could u pls elaborate more on that?

Thanks for the tips Smile
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)



Kowpa
Member

Nov 22, 2003, 8:55 PM

Post #16 of 53 (21022 views)
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Re: [RealityDreamer] Bite [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
hmm..think i got the idea.

What abt the body posture? What/How is his posture? Could u pls elaborate more on that?

Thanks for the tips Smile



To answer your Q abt the body posture is not that easy to elaborate in words. If I'm good in drawing that might help a bit but I'm not

When the dog is stress the body posture looks more or less like submissive, attempts to make body appear smaller, turning its head away, does not accept treat reward. The easiest way to recognise it is when the dog is yawning, have u ever seen this type of signal during your training be4


RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Nov 22, 2003, 11:02 PM

Post #17 of 53 (21019 views)
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Re: [Kowpa] Bite [In reply to] Can't Post

A few times but during play time..

hmm...not exactly sure what u mean..maybe the next time if we all meet up you could elaborate more.

Thanks.
,-._,-.
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(_o_)



RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Dec 16, 2003, 9:58 AM

Post #18 of 53 (20962 views)
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Re: [ALL] Bite [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,

Just a little question.

When I take away the toy,do I gv any command or cue?

At the moment, I don't gv them a command but they do know my body language(sometimes) when I'm abt to take the ball/tug away and will try to avoid me.

Also,I take away the ball the second it drops fr their mouth.

Is this right? Crazy
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)



Al
Novice

Dec 17, 2003, 6:35 PM

Post #19 of 53 (20949 views)
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Re: [RealityDreamer] Bite [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello Everyone,

My name is Al and new around here. Mind me joining and learn from you all?

More power!!!


boon
Doggyman


Dec 17, 2003, 11:13 PM

Post #20 of 53 (20945 views)
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Re: [Al] Bite [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Al,

Welcome aboard, mind share a bit more about yourself wiht us ? by the way I'm from Penang, Malaysia. I have a female yellow lab by the name of Bonney, she is 19 months old.

Are you into working dog ?

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


PSD
ALPHA


Dec 17, 2003, 11:18 PM

Post #21 of 53 (20945 views)
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Re: [RealityDreamer] Bite [In reply to] Can't Post

RD,

If you are just starting out with the dog, you will not want to give any command yet. You will want the dog to bite hold on to it, counter the bites and carry the bites. Your aim is to occassionally try to snatch away the item when u think the dog is not paying attention. You have to be a good actor here as your aim is just for him to hold on and still win the fight. This is done to intensify the holding power and the length of the carry. If the dog carry and drops the items then quickly grab the item and make prey again. Soon your dog will get the idea that if he drops he lose the prey. This will takes weeks of daily session of 3-5 mins until the hold is full and very solid before you teach out. happy trying.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)

(This post was edited by PSD on Dec 17, 2003, 11:22 PM)


PSD
ALPHA


Dec 17, 2003, 11:19 PM

Post #22 of 53 (20944 views)
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Re: [Al] Bite [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Al,

You are most welcome to join us. Mind telling us more about yourself?

Thanks.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


Al
Novice

Dec 18, 2003, 2:37 AM

Post #23 of 53 (20936 views)
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Re: [PSD] Bite [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you for your warm welcome.

I'm Al Reanto from Manila, Philippines, a working dog enthusiast and my breeds of choice are the working GSDs and Belgian Malinois. Unfortunately, I don't do sports as working service dogs are my passion and I work my dogs as well as others in that discipline. I run a small kennel facility south of Manila and breed rarely.

Best regards...


RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Dec 18, 2003, 5:58 AM

Post #24 of 53 (20933 views)
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Re: [PSD] Bite [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,

Thanks for the reply.At the moment the dogs are getting the idea of holding it. But not too strong.

The thing that I'm confused abt is when do I take the ball/toy away? I know that it's when they want it the most..but how do I take it away? I don't want them to get bored.

Now,they don't drop the toy....they barely anyway. They'll hold onto it for hours(tried that once) and chew it.Crazy
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)



RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Dec 18, 2003, 6:08 AM

Post #25 of 53 (20931 views)
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Re: [Al] Bite [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello Al,

You are more than welcomed to join us. SmileMind telling us more abt your dogs?

I'm Chloe frm Selangor,Malaysia. I'm a fan of the working line dogs (don't really hv a fav breed yet). I hv a Dobermann,Bullmastiff,German short haired pointer and a cocker spaniel mix terrier. Only the GSP has some working line in him and has a high prey drive.
,-._,-.
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(_o_)


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