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Booker
Dog Kichi

Oct 7, 2003, 9:58 PM

Post #76 of 89 (3501 views)
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Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Chilimson,I'm so admire on your knowledge on rottweiler.It seems like you really know what is happening out there.I'm just a beginner who just start to keep rott a month ago.I have 1 female Rott called Riff.Her father was imported from Yugoslavia and mother is Hungary line.I found that recently ppl keeps on talking about Yugoslavia line in Malaysia, such like Bronko but I never see you mention about Bronko at all. May I know y?(For me Bronko is really a very beutiful stud dog.So do his son,Djakomo)Is there an important issue to make sure whether the blood line is from Germany or else where? I really don't know.For me,as long as he/she is a responsible breeder and the dog that he/she breed fit the standard then that will be good enough.
(P.S:Can I have your email so that I can keep in touch with you more easily?)

chilimson
Member

Oct 8, 2003, 7:41 AM

Post #77 of 89 (3492 views)
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Re: [Booker] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Booker,

Keeping Rottie is my passionate hobby and I do not get involved with any pet trading stuff, and so I try my best to share what I have learnt over the last 15 years. It is not that I am bias towards one country's dog over another, but rather it is in my personal opinion, after spending a lot of personal money and time, that I learnt to trust the German system. I would not say that there are no money politics involved in Germany or all the breeders are ethical. But I think they have a better governance, despite whatever you have heard. Every country thus will have ethical breeders, but certain countries are definitely worse than others. You definitely can get a lot of nice dogs out of Hungary or Yugoslavia (actually it is now Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, etc.).

If you spent some time understanding the ADRK governance and also learn the bloodline, not champions or siegers only. If you like the working quality of Rottie, then it is important to study bloodlines and not just rely on "looks". Therefore, if you are only interested in showing the dog, then visit any of the East European countries or Begium, Holland, France, Italy, etc.,, see the dog or yearling you like and make sure you do a health check before you buy. However, if you are thinking of breeding or starting a kennel, then study the bloodline or go for the reliable German kennel. They do know something and tends to breed more consistent Rottie. Of course, if you are just tracking titles, then you may only end up with a tied bloodlines through the generations.

I do not want to avoid answering your question on Bronko, but he is just a excellent handsome dog. I will not breed him personally, and I will not go into details since you own an Yugoslavian dog and also there may be a lot of people who owns his line and wanted to breed and make some money out of their investments. All I would share with you is that he is not shown anymore after the World Sieger title, because of health related issue, but I think he is still being used as a stud because of the great looks and titles. The other point I will like to share with you is that you must do your own due diligence if you are really planning to start a kennel. In certain countries, you really could pay to get whatever certificates you want. I am not speculating here, but really I have been offered as well as I had spend a lot of money to learn this sad truth.

If you do genuinely likes to learn more about Rottie, you could email me at chilimson2003@yahoo.com. Please understand that I am a working professional and I will try my best to share and learn with you.

wcleong
Novice

Oct 8, 2003, 6:43 PM

Post #78 of 89 (3482 views)
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Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi... I am new guy around here!!! I agreed with chilimson that we can get a lot of beautiful dogs from the european block. But to be honest sometime the money we paid for won't give us the quality it should be. In fact I can say that my local breed of rottweiler is much more better than those imported one. Anyway although some of the imported dog is not that outstanding but they can still produce some outstanding progeny but this also depends on the genetic carry by the sire and dam. This is what we call as throwback where the puppy produced might carry some of the ch characteristic as their grandparent's. Currently I have a Bronko son out of Morro Vom Hause Marker daughter and also a bitch from Falko Od Sremcica(father side)which is a local breed out of great granddaughter of Aus. Ch. Habsburg Condor. While purchasing a rottweiler we must really look at their pedigree and make sure that it is not from a inbreeding litter because it really do not worth to own those progeny....

chilimson
Member

Oct 9, 2003, 5:44 AM

Post #79 of 89 (3467 views)
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Re: [wcleong] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

How old is your Bronko son? How tall is he? Morro is a handsome dog, and just could not win in the German circuit because he is sold. I have not been able to track his kids much in Germany, so I cannot offer you much opinion. Is your Bronko's kid temperament okay? Could you share a little on this aspect because there are some breedings out of him that produce pretty "soft" Rotties. More like a GR or Lab versus a Rottie. I am not sure is Bronko's side or the dam side.

Polluxx
Enthusiast

Oct 9, 2003, 6:57 AM

Post #80 of 89 (3464 views)
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Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi chilimson,

I haven't heard from U for a while ! Smile

BTW did U notice that the recent ADRK Klubsieger seems be getting more particiaption of foreign rott breeders (outside Germany) esp from former Yugos countries, wht do U thk might be the impact on the breed development esp the temperament side ? Wink

One thing I can see the breed head size is getting bigger woudn't U say ! Tongue

"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)

wcleong
Novice

Oct 9, 2003, 7:52 AM

Post #81 of 89 (3462 views)
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Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

wcleong
Novice

Oct 9, 2003, 8:08 AM

Post #82 of 89 (3458 views)
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Re: [wcleong] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hello.. my Bronko son is about 20 months old and regarding his temperement I can said that he is a bit on the soft side @ timit although very obedient. In fact he have a very outstanding head type but a bit wasted by his leg coz it east west. I won'ty know whether it is genetically passed or cause by improper upbringing coz I bought the dog when he is 9 months old. In fact after I bought him I contacted the breeder from Yug. that send my Bronko son dam into MAlaysia that it is normal that dog's from Europe does possesed east west leg. In fact I can see that even Bronko Leg is slightly east west. Hope someone can tell me more about this issue...

chilimson
Member

Oct 9, 2003, 8:59 AM

Post #83 of 89 (3456 views)
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Re: [wcleong] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Leong,

Thanks for the reply and I can also see your avatar, absolutely georgeous headpiece, and you also confirm my fear about his temperament. Not bad in term of looking for a pet Rottie, but it may be a little "soft" for a typical Rottie defination. This may affect his prey and drive instinct, but if you are not doing man-work or schz-type sport, then it is perfectly okay. Besides his legs, how is his back or topline? This is a public forum and so it is not too nice to comment about the negative side, and I hope you understand why I said that I will not breed him. Maybe I will put the issue to you the other way round, why do you think they are willing to sell you a dog with that kind of outstanding headpiece?

That is why I mentioned that you must see the dog and do a health check personally, because photos and papers can be very illusive. Worse of all if once the money crosses hand, I think you will get all kind of answers except the real one. Again, for those who read and are crazy about Rottie, go and find a reliable breeder. Do a lot of checking first, ask around before you buy. Because it is not very nice for people to comment after the fact as you will have to leave with the disappointment or the anger of being cheated. If you had seen the dog and took your chances, then there is no one to blame. I have learnt so I will try to share discreetly and I have read so much about dog genetic that I do not want to make to judgement for those who have bought their ideal dog. My advice is keep them as pet and do not breed, because you will be multipling the problem as there are not many serious breeders to research the bloodlines.

If you could afford it, or could find a food supplement call Gloucosomine Choride or Sulphate and Chondroitin Sulfate, please give them to your dog. I think Vitamin C is also good, but some people think it is nonsence. Therefore, I will leave it to you, but build up his rear muscles slower and do not overfeed him. Does his rear end look proportionately smaller than his front chest?

chilimson
Member

Oct 9, 2003, 9:28 AM

Post #84 of 89 (3454 views)
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Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Polluxx,

Yes, hope everything is well with you and I have not been writing because there is not Rottie fanatics that chit chating on this forum. I have also been living on a suitcase last few weeks, so only manage to read and not write. Actually, I was in the west coast and thought of writing to Mack Mack, but was so busy and decided to drop that idea. I wanted to visit the KS03 in Rottweil, but could not not schedule it right.

OK, need to answer your question. Firstly, if you want to sell your dogs, then you better have them titled in Germany. There are people in Mexico, Brazil, Korea, etc..who are willing to pay US$60,000 for K'Sg/B'Sg. You must think it is crazy, but hopefully you now understand why there is so many foreign breeders who are willing to travel thousand of km to show their dogs.

The other reason is there are now very strict German laws concerning keeping and breeding Rottweilers, and so it is becoming a legalistic issue for the hobbyist type breeder. Over the last few years, there are also very serious allegation of politics in the show ring. I am sure you understand, as I believe it happen locally as well. There are dogs who are own by judges or "officials" of clubs, and they get to win the title because of "manipulation". Here we call "Kelong" lah! Therefore, the famous German kennels just breed and the demand from America or other European countries will book all the puppies ahead of time. It is like the small breeder will not bother unless they have an outstanding dog, and the big kennels do not bother also unless they have outstanding dogs. But foreigners will come because they really have no choice, even though they know that it is almost impossible for them to win in the German circuit.

I think there is so much German club shows, and so the German breeder will just breed sufficiently for the domestic market. There are laws there that will not allow you to "dump" your dogs so to speak. I think they focus more on the Korung which is also dying...strange outcome in German. I am begining to wonder whether the money politics or the legislation is "killing" the enthusiaism in Germany.

Size? I assume you are refering to large standard like 26 inches? Well, look at the studs that are used for the last two years! Balou is large and so are his kids. I believe Donner is also large as well. Mambo v Crossener Ranch is smaller and so are his kids (watch their ears), Vico, Bruno, Fax, is also large. So as the saying goes, like father like son.

OK, hope my humble opinion helps!

Polluxx
Enthusiast

Oct 9, 2003, 9:22 PM

Post #85 of 89 (3449 views)
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Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Chilimson,

Yup ! everything boils down to $$$$$, but still I'm surprised to see so many Balkan states dogs/breeder in this recent KS , coz if I'm not mistaken this year is the 1st time they only allowed non-docked Rott to participate rite ? ? Well even the winner for the best breeder is foreign. Shocked

! !

I have nothing against non-German winners but like U mentioned the emphasis on Korung is getting lesser, & now U have foreign dogs participating & winning, sooner or later U end up with the genepool getting "softer" with breeding focusing now more on show wining quality .... Unimpressed

, I hope Rott will not go the way of GSD . . !

BTW maybe there is still hope, If I m not mistaken the President of ADRK (is the breeder of v shambl kennel, rite) I thk he still infuse his breeding stock wt working bloodline, just look at Ambassador , nice structure & from wht I read also good working drv, and also large (which I dun really mind .. !), I thk that he got it from Balou as U have mentioned , but anyway his dam was large as well !

Talking of size, the last time I read of Mambo , they say he has matured to a medium large size of 65cm ...which is the ideal height ! Smile

, but still what caught my eye is his headpiece, Tongue

..! !

And also the recent 2003 KS size, (forgot his name ? ? Crazy

) , well he is also abt the medium large size, so I believe ADRK is concerned & is taking steps to address the oversize problem but like U say ealier , when the demand from public is for bigger size ...it will all boils down to $$$$$, well personally if they can maintained / preserve the temperament, I dun thk is a major concern but w/o Korung (which is tested on a neutral ground) I thk it will be a bit hard esp wt the countries outside Germany since they r also now major entrees in the annual KS ! !

"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)

wcleong
Novice

Oct 10, 2003, 1:18 AM

Post #86 of 89 (3443 views)
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Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi chilimson, regarding his topline and back it is one of the best because he can really post nicely, furthermore he once won best puppy in breed before he was sold to me. The reason previous owner sold the dog because when he was 9 months old his look is not that outstanding compare to his littermate. But as we know we can't really judge a male rottweiler during 9 months olds because it is still growing during that time. Furthermore the breeder is good friend of mine.

chilimson
Member

Oct 10, 2003, 4:57 AM

Post #87 of 89 (3438 views)
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Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Polluxx,

Mambo headpiece is really unique, but possible having small ear which are highly set or fly ear. The latest KS is Cujo I think, and is a Rick son and Doc grandson. Doc is small compared to Balou, and so some of Rick kids are small. HOwever, Rick's daugther could be very beautiful with a nice headpiece. There are still many kennels in Germany who are focusing on working line. You are right about A. Shambala, a Balou son. Actually, I think Balou does throw excellent headpiece to his kids.

chilimson
Member

Oct 10, 2003, 5:04 AM

Post #88 of 89 (3436 views)
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Re: [wcleong] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

OK, sorry. I had mistaken the avatar for your dog, but I think you had posted Bronko as your Avatar. The Rottie at 9 months still have plenty of growth to do, and so not to worry about it. Still I will advise you to build him up slowly before you push him or take him for serious exercise or long run. Give him the supplement if you could because I think it will help. Since the breeder is a good friend of yours, then it is great in terms of trust. However, there is nothing he could do about the genetic portion, so taking all the environmental precaution will hopefully help.

qme465
Member

Oct 18, 2003, 5:10 PM

Post #89 of 89 (3414 views)
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Re: [neurotoxicz] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

neurotoxicz,

are u from east malaysia?...s'wak or sabah?...BTW im from miri s'wak...i hv a rottie too...hope u in miri..so that i can see ur granduncle dog...

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