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Agressive puppy...I need help







dieselthepup
Novice

Sep 4, 2003, 2:51 AM

Post #1 of 19 (5037 views)
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Agressive puppy...I need help Can't Post

I have a 10 week old rotti/german shepard pup, who we got from the pound. The first week was great but then he started biting us very agressively, causing us to bleed. We tried hold his mouth closed but not hurting him of course, laying on his back until he was submissive and yelling ouch, but nothing works. As soon as we let him go he lunges at us again. He has also started growling at other dogs and children and snapped at me when I was holding him. Is this normal? Can anyone help please? If you have time to read on, this is about his life so far that may contribute to his problem now. I had to pick him up one evening as he was acting this way aggressively ards a small dog and I was afraid he was going to hurt the other dog. While I was holding him the growling continued and he turned his head towards my face and tried to bite me. Another night we were out for a walk and a father and 3 year old were walking by, my pup started growling and snarling and trying to get at the child.

I have contacted the spca where I got him and his life so far consists of being found in the woods with his four brothers and sisters and mother who only weighed 25lbs. The mother had been abused and starved and was therefore unable to care for the pups. The foster mother who had all 6 dogs seperated the mother from them as she was being aggressive towards them and bottle fed the pups. They were taken to the spca for adoption when they were 9 weeks old. Our pup was the runt and was picked on a fair amount and the foster mother suggested that now he is in a home on his own he is trying to be dominant. None of the other owners have had similar problems with their pups.

The spca had me take our pup to them so the foster mother could work with him for a couple of weeks which we though was a great idea. To do this we signed over our rights to him. We have just found out that the foster mother does not have him and he has been at the spca for the past 4 nights. They won't tell us what's going on even though they know we still want this dog, and were just looking for some assistance. I'm going to keep fighting to get my pup back so I am trying to educate myself as much as possible as to how I can help this dog. Thank you so much to everyone for any input they have. If anyone knows of a good trainer in the Vancouver, B.C. area that could help us please let me know. We don't have thousands of dollars but we will get the pup as much help as we can. Thanks again.



surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 4, 2003, 10:14 AM

Post #2 of 19 (5030 views)
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Re: [dieselthepup] Agressive puppy...I need help [In reply to] Can't Post

please read posting in response at ...
www.puppy.com.my/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=63064;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;page=last;#last


Elly
ALPHA


Sep 4, 2003, 7:32 PM

Post #3 of 19 (5020 views)
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Re: [dieselthepup] Agressive puppy...I need help [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi there,

OMG, what an super duper aggressive dog you have!!!CrazyPirate

My basset hound used to be aggressive too when she was a little pup. My hubby has to really really shouted at her until her pee & shit also come out. Then only she learn.

So maybe you could try the military way for once and for all?

Anyway, GOOD LUCK!~Angelic


jc
Novice

Sep 4, 2003, 9:18 PM

Post #4 of 19 (5016 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Agressive puppy...I need help [In reply to] Can't Post

hi surchinmy,

was just wandering whether have ever face similar experience like dieselthepup?


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 4, 2003, 9:48 PM

Post #5 of 19 (5011 views)
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Re: [jc] Agressive puppy...I need help [In reply to] Can't Post

Unfortunately ... yes ... have seen and had to assist with issues of dominance.

But what appears rather unusual here is the pup's age ... 10 weeks seems awful young for assertion of dominance.

But cannot think of any other reason why the pup would bite owner (causing bleeding), threatening to attack other dogs ... and growl at children ... very unusual and ... very serious.

Have already cautioned the owner (in her earlier posting on the same issue) - that if she consideres the situation an emergency (and she will be best person to know) ... to immediately seek experts advice, assistance and help.

Cheers


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 4, 2003, 9:57 PM

Post #6 of 19 (5010 views)
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Re: [jc] Agressive puppy...I need help [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi jc ...Smile

Checked your other thread ...

How is your dog now? Is your dog still being aggressive towards family members? ...


jc
Novice

Sep 4, 2003, 11:35 PM

Post #7 of 19 (5001 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Agressive puppy...I need help [In reply to] Can't Post

My situation is not as bad as dieselthepup - I think!

Call me superstitious but last month is the "ghost month!"

Anyway, my dog is back to normal.
Unfortunately, once a while he will "naik angin" and show his teeth to my father. (weird as it is only to my dad). By the way once started to have his angin, he will be mad at the whole family!

How about your dog?
Did you bring him to see a dog behaviourist (which I don't think there is one in m'sia) or sent him to MKA for training?

If I am not mistaken, this fear situation also occur due to chemical imbalance in the dog body.

(that is why for my dog first attack, he woke up from his sleep, a bit "mong cha cha" and then attack my father)

Nowadays, we realise that our dog is very bad temper.
What I would like to find out is that how do we know that my dog is "cure" and will there be any more attack.
That is because we are very careful around him.
We no longer dare play tugging with him and he no longer are allowed to enter into the house.
That is why no more attack occurs.

By the way is it possible to recommend any experts from KL or PJ?


Gwinn
Old Kaki


Sep 5, 2003, 12:56 AM

Post #8 of 19 (4997 views)
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Re: [dieselthepup] Agressive puppy...I need help [In reply to] Can't Post

wow!! real aggressive little one huh! I have a bullmastiff whereby when he was younger, he was really really fierce and aggressive!! something like what you said.. but my dad took no shit from him.. since he was still a pup, chained him up and gave him a good yelling!! and guess what!! it didn't stop!! He growled even more and even attempted to bite my dad, so my dad had to take his slipper to sort of wrack the little fella.. and still.. that took a while for the bullmastiff to surrender..

I guess the reason to the aggressive nature is due to the mixture of breed and also, the previous environment in which it was in.. now, my advise is that you have to show him who is boss, and then once he submits to you, that's when you shower him love and attention.

The bullmastiff now adores my dad.. and only listens to my dad... Smile

So really, if you have to want to keep him, you have to show him who is master.. and bear in mind, a rott needs lots of running around.. make sure you take him for regular walks to stablise its hormones if, eventually, that is the problem.

Good luck!
Papasan, Mamasan, Jerry, Salsa, Samseng & Junior


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 5, 2003, 1:34 AM

Post #9 of 19 (4992 views)
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Re: [jc] Agressive puppy...I need help [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes ... aggression can be hormone based ... (chemical imbalance) ...

Very often issues of dominance can be improved and often completely resolved through a consistent and firm training regime ... but that depends on your commitment, diligence and willingness to work with your dog ...

Your dog's temperament is not going to get "cured" by itself. There are no short cuts. Asking for suggestions is good but if we don't decide to actually do something about it ... and start working with our dog in and day out ... or nothing is gonna' change ... Smile.

Enrolling yourself and your dog in a training course with good and experienced trainers can only help ... ask around and find out more about training courses Smile ... I think the carries out obedience courses ...

Alternatively ... get a training manual and start working with your dog.

Cheers'


Baileyboy
New User

Sep 20, 2003, 1:37 PM

Post #10 of 19 (4935 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Agressive puppy...I need help [In reply to] Can't Post

hi there..I dont know if I`m doing this right..but I`m in desperate need of someone to talk to about my puppy..

Bailey is a one year old loved and spoiled poodle...However..somewhere in his early months he realized that he is the boss..and now he`ll snap at me if I try to get something that he`s stolen..or if I try to wipe his paws when he comes in from the rain..when he`s asleep in my bed..and I move he`ll wake up with this god awful growl.. He hates strangers..especially children..but he gets along with his little puppy friends and a little girl on the street..

I know I shouldnt be afraid of him..but as much as I love him..he terrifies me when he goes into his teeth baring fits..

He can be the most cuddly pup and so lovable..but its like the devil will take over and he becomes cujo..

Does anyone know any professionals in Ottawa Ontario...

Hoping you can help...


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 20, 2003, 8:25 PM

Post #11 of 19 (4926 views)
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Re: [Baileyboy] Agressive puppy...I need help [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Hello ... Smile ...

Doggies bite or threaten to bite for many reasons ... sometimes it's anxiety, fear, sometimes it's dominance ... or can even be brought about for medical reasons ... or a combination of reasons ...

Without being able to see/watch the dog or you, or your interaction with the dog ... it's awful hard to say why you poodle is acting as it is ...

So will assume that you are right and it's an issue of "dominance" ... and not any other reason.

Your situation does sound a little serious ... and really needs immediate attention.

But it is a good sign that you do not mention any biting ... and so far the poodle seems to only be snapping air ...

Start training your dog immediately.

Training against dominance does not just mean reprimanding your dog when it tries to dominate.

Training against dominance is most effective if you are able to re-establish your relationship (and leadership role) with your dog.

This is most effectively done by spending time and training your dog. Experts often recommend training as a means of re-establishing "order" in a reasonable way without resorting to physical punishment.

Get a good training manual ... Will suggest you DO NOT use the "clicker" method of training for the moment ...

I suspect a more hands-on method will be better under the circumstances ... using leash and slip collar ... Train your dog to do the usual sit, heel and stay routines. Be extremely diligent with training ...

Cautions: Together with the usual commands & training ... you have to deal with the mouthing, snapping & growling in a consistent manner ...

(a) No mouthing or snaping is to be allowed at all.

(b) For sure no biting at all.

(c) No growling either ... whether at you or family or others or other dogs.

Reprimand: Even as you see the dog is about to (try and catch it before it misbehaves, catching it as it is thinking of misbehaving is best and most effective ... not easy to do but can be done) mouth, snap or growl ... emit a low growling sound from base of your throat ... and go "NOOOOOOOOOOO" ... keep tone low and fierce ... (It's not repeated "NO NO NO" but one long "NOOOOO" just like a growl)

I am (personally) not convinced that the Alpha Roll (rolling dog over on its back) does much good - unless you are experienced and can execute the Alpha Roll effectively in one quick movement ... executed wrongly - it can makes things worse, 'cos the dog then learns you are not as strong or quick as he is.

If the dog responds by stopping unacceptable behaviour - praise & treat ...

But if the dog continues to misbehave – (and you ought to keep a collar on your poodle) ... then your reaction must be immediate - take the dog to a corner of the house and leash him on a short leash - just enough to sit or lie down but not to move about or play. Leave him there alone - everyone is to ignore him. If he cries or struggles, leave him there until he is quiet and calms down.

Once he has been quiet for a while - put him through his sit, heel & stay routine ... and then release the dog ...

This ought to be the routine for the dog until the dog learns to respect your position.

You have to be firm - don't feel sorry for the dog - be firm but fair - above all everyone must be CONSISTENT.

General: Until the misbehaviour is under control remember the following points

(a) Not to pet the pup when he comes to you. You decide when he can be petted. You have to establish yourself as pack leader. You lead he follows.

(b) Restrain all over-affection until the dog responds consistently to commands and signals.

(c) When feeding him ... DO NOT let him become possessive over his food ... Check the training manual - most manuals will have a chapter on "food possessiveness" ... apply and practice. Let pup learn you control his food.

(d) When walking him ... use a slip chain ... if he even thinks about growling at another dog or person ... jerk the slip chain quick and sharp - shock him ... (remember to jerk & immediately release) ... Emit low growl "NOOOOOOO" ... and get hand on his scruff and hold tight ... he is not to be released until he quiets down. Trying to protect you from other dogs is a sign of dominance - he's the protector. You need to reverse the role.

(e) Do not let him try to hump you or any other member of the family. Humping is rewarded with an immediate growl from you.

(f) When one person reprimands - the others keep quiet. Let one command be the general nature of things.

(g) Keep your low growl handy always and be ready to use. Expect and demand immediate cessation of bad behaviour.

But please remember - cannot explain everything over this forum ... please look for (a) good training manual and (b) a good book on dog behaviour ... it will be worth every cent.

Good luck

PS ... sorry cannot help with trainers in Canada ... Unsure


(This post was edited by surchinmy on Sep 20, 2003, 8:27 PM)


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 21, 2003, 1:09 AM

Post #12 of 19 (4918 views)
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Re: [Baileyboy] Agressive puppy...I need help [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Ah yes ... forgot one other thing ... "RECALL" ...

Practice recall with your dog as consistently and as often as possible ... many times a day ...

Extract from another thread:
-----------------------------------------------------

RECALL: Teach your dog recall all the time, on & off leash.

Call your dog’s name, and every time dog responds … major praise & reward … Do this often, as long as there is praise & reward ... the dog won't mind ... ... It will not take long for your dog to realise that life is starting anew and his/her name is good.

Cautions: NEVER call a dog to punish or scold. NEVER call a dog when you are angry at the dog. NEVER use your dog's name, to make your dog do something he/she does not like - like going to the vet. If you do this and you will undo all your previous training.

If you need to reprimand your dog, YOU GO TO THE DOG, do not call your dog to you. When you call a dog by its name – it is ALWAYS HAPPY HAPPY.
------------------------------------------------------

Teach/training recall might help you get your dog off the bed without confrontation ... Smile ...


Gwinn
Old Kaki


Sep 23, 2003, 12:12 AM

Post #13 of 19 (4908 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Agressive puppy...I need help [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi surchinmy,

what is "clicker" method??
Papasan, Mamasan, Jerry, Salsa, Samseng & Junior


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 23, 2003, 12:42 AM

Post #14 of 19 (4906 views)
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Re: [Gwinn] Agressive puppy...I need help [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi ... Smile

It's a method of training introduced by Karen Pryor a few years ago ... which has found much general acceptance amoung trainers.

Basically, the owner/trainer uses the distinctive sound of a "clicker" to assist with the training of the dog ...

Here are some useful sites explaining clicker training ...

http://www.clickertraining.com/home/index.htm

http://www.clickertrain.com/

It's lots of fun ... you should give it a try ... Smile

Cheers Smile


(This post was edited by surchinmy on Sep 23, 2003, 12:45 AM)


snoopdog
K9 Kaki


Sep 23, 2003, 7:41 PM

Post #15 of 19 (4889 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Agressive puppy...I need help [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Ah yes ... forgot one other thing ... "RECALL" ...

Practice recall with your dog as consistently and as often as possible ... many times a day ...

Extract from another thread:
-----------------------------------------------------

RECALL: Teach your dog recall all the time, on & off leash.

Call your dog’s name, and every time dog responds … major praise & reward … Do this often, as long as there is praise & reward ... the dog won't mind ... ... It will not take long for your dog to realise that life is starting anew and his/her name is good.

Cautions: NEVER call a dog to punish or scold. NEVER call a dog when you are angry at the dog. NEVER use your dog's name, to make your dog do something he/she does not like - like going to the vet. If you do this and you will undo all your previous training.

If you need to reprimand your dog, YOU GO TO THE DOG, do not call your dog to you. When you call a dog by its name – it is ALWAYS HAPPY HAPPY.
------------------------------------------------------

Teach/training recall might help you get your dog off the bed without confrontation ... Smile ...



WinkI like this RECALL....I always try to remind myself not to use my dog's name in angry tone but sometimes forgetSly. Because Dome is still a pup, I always use treat to reward him when I'm doing the recall. I think I've spoilt him a bit. Sometimes when I call and he comes and I don't have a treat, he will stay by my side lah until I show him both my hands that it's empty. Just afraid that he thinks that I lied to him and he won't trust me anymore. Is it possible ah?

Ciao
Angeline + Maximus & Dome(miss u!)



surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 23, 2003, 9:44 PM

Post #16 of 19 (4880 views)
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Re: [snoopdog] Agressive puppy...I need help [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello ... Smile

Your wrote: "... I always use treat to reward him when I'm doing the recall. I think I've spoilt him a bit. Sometimes when I call and he comes and I don't have a treat, he will stay by my side lah until I show him both my hands that it's empty. Just afraid that he thinks that I lied to him and he won't trust me anymore. Is it possible ah? ..."


Not really ... many experienced trainers suggest that while you should ALWAYS praise a doggie when the doggie obeys a command ... it is not necessary to always give a treat ... In fact, the treating should be reduced over time ... to keep the dog guessing when there will be a treat and thus, encourage the doggie to respond in hope of a treat ...

We found the "Jackpot" method very effective ...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Extract from another thread: http://www.puppy.com.my/...tring=jackpot;#66455

Keep practising recall ... always practice that ... many many times a day from different places in the house and different distance ... always praise & treat when he comes to you (vary the treats even, so it's not boring) ...

Practice this consistently ...

Then as recall becomes steady ... always praise but only treat sometimes and no treats at other times ... do not make it predictable ... But now - maybe 3 or 4 times a day give Billy a JACKPOT when he responds to call ... A "Jackpot" is when you praise like crazy and give special treats - make it real good treats and lots of it ...

Practice this consistently for another week ...

Cooked cow's liver usually works very well (doggies love the smell) ... if you wanna learn how to prepare liver email me at surchinmy@yahoo.com

Then ... slowly reduce frequency of the Jackpot ... but continue to make Jackpot part of your training for recall but maybe only once a day ...

The idea is to keep Billy guessing when there will be a treat ... and when there might be a Jackpot ... this will encourage Billy and keep his interest in recall ...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Remember to ALWAYS PRAISE ... the frequency of treats can be random ... Smile

Cheers


snoopdog
K9 Kaki


Sep 24, 2003, 12:52 AM

Post #17 of 19 (4874 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Agressive puppy...I need help [In reply to] Can't Post

SmileHi, thanks for the advise. I will 'chuen lek yi fu, chou tou chui hou'. Thank you very much.Blush

Ciao
Angeline + Maximus & Dome(miss u!)



surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 24, 2003, 2:29 AM

Post #18 of 19 (4867 views)
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Re: [snoopdog] Agressive puppy...I need help [In reply to] Can't Post

... most welcome ... have fun with Dome ... Smile


PSD
ALPHA


Sep 24, 2003, 4:06 AM

Post #19 of 19 (4864 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Agressive puppy...I need help [In reply to] Can't Post

Surchinmy,

That is a good one Smile more people should pick this up and start doing it this way. This is good stuff.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)

 
 




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