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Mange





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cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 23, 2003, 7:04 PM

Post #76 of 341 (16889 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

ok ok...hehe thanks for the advice. Will remove vit C from Sparkle Cool

I dun like the komondor ler. I mean it'll be interesting seeing one white whoopi goldberg on 4 legs but I won't enjoy taking care of it! 3 full days?????? before u can rest after the 3 days it's time to go through it again. siao leh PirateAngelicTongue

Luckily sparkle now like that....hehehe


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 23, 2003, 9:02 PM

Post #77 of 341 (16884 views)
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Re: [cshellz] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

 
... But the good news is ... apparently, they only bathe the Komondor twice a year ... * Laugh


mackmack
Doggyman


Aug 23, 2003, 10:30 PM

Post #78 of 341 (16881 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

LOLCool


--I have Howling Bean and Lazy Mack.--


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 24, 2003, 7:18 PM

Post #79 of 341 (16871 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

BlushBlush hahahaha.................that's not too bad then!

hey surchinmy, sparkle is due for his check up today....let's see what the vet says about his condition. Hopefully no dips ler!! NO DIPS! NO DIPS! NO DIPS!!

Well update u later Cool


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 25, 2003, 12:12 AM

Post #80 of 341 (16867 views)
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Re: [cshellz] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

... Okay ... fingers crossed ... no more dips for Sparkle ... Smile ...


JolinG
Doggyman


Aug 25, 2003, 10:55 AM

Post #81 of 341 (16862 views)
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Re: [cshellz] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

heloooo michelle
so how ..wat did the vet say?
is he getting better?....i hope he is


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 25, 2003, 4:48 PM

Post #82 of 341 (16859 views)
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Re: [surchinmy, JolinG] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

hi guys,

Sparkle had to go for his second dip yesterday FrownFrownFrown The vet said he did look better but he's still losing fur on the leg areas so to be safe, dip one more time.

But surprisingly this time around he's very active after the dip and still have appetite and is still running and jumping around like a mad puppy Tongue


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 25, 2003, 5:26 PM

Post #83 of 341 (16856 views)
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Re: [cshellz] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

SmileSmileSmile ... very gald that Sparkle is not so "der der" with the 2nd dip ... could be because most of his open lesions have healed ... and he's not absorbing so much of the medication into his system ... but whatever the reason ... *yes*...

With all the good food & care ... think the little fella will only get better now ...

Well done ... Smile


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 25, 2003, 6:02 PM

Post #84 of 341 (16854 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

hi surchinmy,

thanks....hehehe u have been following sparkle's mange saga from beginning till end!! SmileSmile

Sparkle sends his puppy licks and barks! Tongue


wlaiwan
Dog Kichi


Aug 25, 2003, 7:18 PM

Post #85 of 341 (16850 views)
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Re: [cshellz] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

hie
> lemon scented dish washing liquid
Ya, fresh from the doggie washer Wink

Skin problems can be really hard to handle. And if you have other problems as well, it triples. Many months ago, someone from a pet store told me this:
"If you have a pet with skin problems, you have to deal with it for the rest of your pet's life"
Scarry huh?

Tear ducts? I don't think she will allow me to do that to her. Still, I am willing to try anything.

Probiotics are good bacteria. Just like the vitagen we drink or yoghurt. So probiotics is like vitagen to them. If we feed our furkids with only kibbles, over time, their digestion system will be weak. And it can in turn give rise to many problems. Especially if they have diarrhea or stomach upset then adding beneficial bacteria will help them as it restores the system.

I supplement my furkids with Velcote and 3 times a week, multi-vits. Ocassionally, if I see some burping, I throw in one half tablet of digestive enzyme. One clove of garlic once a week.

cheers
wlaiwan + sidnee + shino + rufus


(This post was edited by wlaiwan on Aug 25, 2003, 7:20 PM)


wlaiwan
Dog Kichi


Aug 25, 2003, 7:29 PM

Post #86 of 341 (16844 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

Hie there

Oh, sorry for not mentioning it - Sidnee is a 14-month old female Pug. I see gel-ish whitish discharge every now and then and lately, her eyes are reddish. Corneas - negative, not clear.

I took her to the vet a few times, he advised me to apply ointment and monitor. Just that! I do not see much improvement. And I don't like applying ointment every night. She's no difference from a 'medicine pot' if I do that.

Can I use regular salt , add in water and wipe her eyes with that?

Sidnee, likes neither vitagen nor yoghurt. SO I have to find a capsule or some powder tht she can chew on or mixed to her food.


Quote

Have a word with cshellz or ginl ... they use a brand of herbal supplement that I find very good ... and this brand produces a really wide range of supplements ... good quality & effective ...

Cshellz/ginl can you tell me more about this herbal supplement?


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 25, 2003, 7:30 PM

Post #87 of 341 (16844 views)
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Re: [wlaiwan] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello wiawan ... you may have missed the earlier posting in reply to your query re: tearing ... here it is ...

_______________________________________________________________________

Hi ...

You wrote: " ... Hmm do you have any remedies for excessive tearing? Sidnee has this persistent problem with her eyes - it went away for a while but these days I see signs of recurrence. Also, it's reddish."

Some breeds tend to tear more then others & some breeds are more prone to eye conditions.

Most eye conditions I have come across are usually the result of environmental factors ... allergies and such that causes the eye to tear. Check Sidnee's eyes ... (leave the redness aside for the moment) ...

Are the corneas clear? ... And what kind of discharge? ...

If the corneas are generally clear and the discharge is also clear ... then the condition may not be serious ...

If Sidnee is producing a watery eye discharge (not thick, yellow or pus-like) ... then his eyes may just need cleaning regularly. Some animals have tear overflow caused by blocked tear ducts or mild allergies. Try cleaning the eyes twice a day with a warm solution of salt water. The salt solution is a very mild disinfectant ... and is great for general care.

If the discharge is thick or yellow then that may be sign of infection and you really need a vet ... Eye problems can be serious and early treatment required.

Will do more checking and let you know if I find anything else.

___________________________________________________________________________________


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 25, 2003, 7:34 PM

Post #88 of 341 (16840 views)
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Re: [cshellz] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeaps ... have been following Sparkle's journey ... Smile ... we have had our share of having to deal with dermo mange ... and know how difficult it can be ... Smile

Cheers


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 25, 2003, 7:49 PM

Post #89 of 341 (16838 views)
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Re: [wlaiwan] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello ...

OOOps ... think I just cross posted you ... sorry ... Crazy

Yes ... just mild salt solution ... using "sea-salt" is good ... better than ordinary table salt 'cos its more natural ... Because its for the eyes ... make solution mild ... so it doesn't sting ... experiment with concentration of salt solution ...

Will do a quick check on pugs & eye ... let you know ...

Good luck ... Smile


wlaiwan
Dog Kichi


Aug 25, 2003, 7:53 PM

Post #90 of 341 (16836 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

Hie there,

wow , that was quick! I just remembered that someone asked me to use saline solution for our contact lens to wipe our doggies' eyes. Is it advisable?

Regards
wlaiwan, sidnee, shino + rufus

(This post was edited by wlaiwan on Aug 25, 2003, 7:54 PM)


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 25, 2003, 7:55 PM

Post #91 of 341 (16839 views)
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Re: [wlaiwan] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

You wrote: "... gel-ish whitish discharge every now and then and lately, her eyes are reddish. Corneas - negative, not clear ..."

The whitish discharge is normal ... our doggies have that too (esp. in morning) ...

But not so good that corneas are not clear ... A healthy dog will have clear corneas ... *hmmm* ... this one beyond me already ... and will need vet to diagnose ...

If you wish to discuss vets, think we have to do this privately - you can email me at surchinmy@yahoo.com

cheers


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 25, 2003, 7:57 PM

Post #92 of 341 (16837 views)
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Re: [wlaiwan] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

*errr* ... contact lens saline solution? ... dun know lar ... have to check the ingredients in a contact saline solution ...


houyee
Novice


Aug 27, 2003, 12:56 PM

Post #93 of 341 (16814 views)
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In A Nutshell [In reply to] Can't Post

hi all,

i've been following these posts on and off for some time now. poor us! both my dogs have generalized mange and i'm quite stressed out as it is. sobs. i feel for you c-shellz.

first it was rowena who got new spots even after starting weekly armitraz dips. by definition that's generalized. then mongrella, when she went for spaying, and the vet shaved off some of her hair to prep for the op, i almost flipped out cause underneath the apparently healthy short coat were hundreds of pustules some of which were actively weeping.

so here i am hoping to share some info i have learnt thus far.

Demodex Mange In a Nutshell

* Caused by Demodex canis, a mite which lives IN the hair follicles of ALL dogs (passed on from mom to pup) - that's why it's so hard to kill with topical chemicals

* Normal dogs control the mites naturally by killing it with their cellular immunity (T-cells). When a dog has defective T-cell immunity, these mites multiply and infest the host leading to demodicosis or mange.

* Puppies have immature immune system and sometimes develop localized mange due to this immaturity. Some puppies grow out of it once their immunity builds up with age.

* Some unfortunate pups develop generalized mange due to inborn immune system defect. These pups should not be used for breeding purposes. This form of mange is difficult to cure and usually take a chronic course as the immunity is not there to fight and control the mites.

* Adult onset mange can signify underlying (recently acquired) disease eg cancer, diabetes, hormonal/glandular diseases etc. so getting mange in adulthood signals poor outcome.

* key to treating mange

1. control mite numbers

2. boost immunity by good meat-based diet and eliminating other stresses such as worms. keep immunizations up to date to prevent diseases. spay bitches as pregnancies and heats are stressful events.

3. treat secondary bacterial infection (if present) with antibiotics. beneficial eg when pustule forms.

* controlling mite numbers

A)

Amitraz is currently the only FDA approved treatment for demodicosis. Amitraz is widely available from vets in a suspension in oil when diluted in water forms a milky mix with a distinctive smell. Current recommendation - weekly dips till 2 successive skin scrape negative followed by less frequent maintenance dips. Dipping means wetting the coat thoroughly with the mix including face and scalp. This can be achieved by sponging on taking care not to have the dog ingest it. Drip dry (do not towel off). Dip efficacy can be increased by washing the doggy with benzoyl peroxide shampoo and/or warm water soak to remove crusts prior to dip. long haired dogs should be clipped.

Note on amitraz toxicity

toxic if ingested. usually ingested by curious pups. Signs :- lethargy, nausea, vomiting, sleepiness, change in personality. Treatment :- shampoo the dog to remove all residues of amitraz, IV drip by vet if doggie gets too dehydrated from vomiting (rarely necessary), yohimbine will reverse toxicity partially (mostly unavailable in local vets). Otherwise just manage conservatively (i.e. wait and see for a day or two the dog will surely get better, liquid/bland diet). Prevention is better than cure! Be careful when dipping your furkid. Some say dip after food. Once you've mastered dipping then expect less/no side effects.

B)

Ivermectin also works (as an off-label presciption). Dosage : 300 microgram per kg per day (orally) for at least 6 weeks (can go up to 600 mics per kg per day in resistant cases). Usual treatment duration around 16 weeks. this is very high dose but rarely toxic except in shetland sheep dogs and collies and relatives (ivermectin sensitivity). Ivomec (the injectable form) and Eqvalan (oral form for horses) both can be given orally but hell bitter so you Mix with bait. injection if given daily can be tedious for the dog.

Ivermectin toxicity

Dilated pupils (midriasis), respiratory depression, disordered movements (ataxia), vomiting, drooling etc. Stop drug immediately. Symptoms will usually improve over time. No antidote only supportive measures. This is rare except in breed sensitivity mentioned earlier).

Combining amitraz and ivermectin can have adverse synergystic effects of central nervous system and respiratory depression. unless you're pro at dipping i guess dont' try it.

oh my god. that's hardly in a nutshell.

okay here's in a nutshell :-

if your dog get mange --> dip in amitraz

if that don't work --> take high dose ivermectin

improve nutrition

treat infection and worms

goody lucky :)
zippy 'rowena' kojak


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 27, 2003, 5:36 PM

Post #94 of 341 (16809 views)
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Re: [houyee] In A Nutshell [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi houyee,

Sorry to hear about Rowena and Mongrella. Both of them having it together? Must be double stress for u...Frown Poor little things...

Thanks for the summary Smile U know, on the more positive side, I know for sure many other members have read through and are following this thread and at least more out there are aware about these pesky mites and at least they have some general ideas on how to fight mange. Smile

Btw, did your furkids lose a lot of fur? Sparkle is almost all botak at the eye and muzzle areas and his four legs. Body fur still ok.

Here's hoping that Rowena, Mongrella and Sparkle recovers fast...


(This post was edited by cshellz on Aug 27, 2003, 5:38 PM)


wlaiwan
Dog Kichi


Aug 27, 2003, 10:33 PM

Post #95 of 341 (16800 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi
Thanks for your the info. These 2 days, the discharge on her eyes have lessen. So I think I will wait and see. Keep u posted on the updates.

Thanks a lot.

cheers
wlaiwan+sidnee[pug]+shino[shihtzu] + rufus[rott]


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 29, 2003, 6:18 AM

Post #96 of 341 (16785 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

hi surchinmy,Smile

Just wondering...do u know if it's normal for the dog's affected areas to turn black? sparkle is looking better (no open sores, no new pimples etc) but the area around his eyes are turning blackish and wrinkled Unsure

Also, yesterday I was trying to change Sparkle's diet to BARF. Instead of cooking it, I just ran the liver & chicken necks over with hot water. It was still quite raw. This morning (in fact the whole day) he lau sai very teruk wor......

Gina said it could be due to the dog's reaction to raw stuff. Something like pushing the toxins out? What do u think? Smile


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 29, 2003, 8:12 AM

Post #97 of 341 (16780 views)
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Re: [cshellz] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello ...

So sorry to hear that Sparkle has the runs ... Unsure ...

You wrote: " ... Something like pushing the toxins out? What do u think? ..."

*Hmmm* ... It is true that when changing from a kibble diet to a BARF diet, some dogs go through a "cleansing" process ... and they supposedly void old accumulated toxins ... they have loose stools etc ... But that doesn't usually happen after just one BARF meal ... Will check this up and let you know.

Could be caused by a variety of factors:

(a) Dogs that have been on an exclusively kibble diet sometimes require time to adapt to a raw diet ...

(b) The meat may not have been clean. Always get raw meats from a clean & hygenic butcher - wash thoroughly (some suggest washing in salt water & then rinsing with clean water before feeding) ... or scald with BOILING WATER ... (not just hot water) ...

I trust the liver was not pog's liver? ... And I am always reluctant to give raw chicken or raw chicken offal ... there always seems to be more cases of food poisoning with chicken than any other meat ...

(c) Sparkle has been through a lot lately ... he's system may need to settle down first before making another change ...

For Sparkle ... it may be good idea to change his diet more gradually ... let him settle down ...

Maybe you can start with a mixture of kibble & "freshly cooked" foods first and only slowly moving to a BARF diet ... Have emailed you on this ... Smile ...

As for the dark skin ... Allergies can cause dark patches to appear on the skin ... In Sparkle's case, it might also be side-effect of the dip ... Dips can be very strong ...

You can sooth the skin with a moisturising cream (something non-sented and as natural as possible) ... Observe and see what happens over the next few days ...

Hope Sparkle settles down by tomorrow ... keep in touch ... Do let me know how he is tomorrow ... Smile


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 29, 2003, 6:04 PM

Post #98 of 341 (16772 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello sifu! Smile

Thanks a lot for ur feedback!

Today Sparkle is still having diarrhoea...will continue to give him another garlic tablet today. Hey I think i remember you posting something about yoghurt being good for dogs who have the runs? Correct me if I'm wrong Blush U think it's a good time I made him a kibble salad with yoghurt for his tummy?

My biggest suspicion is that the meat is not clean enough. But I washed it thoroughly, and after I diced it I also washed it again. Then I ran hot boiling water on it once. But maybe it's not enough...it was chicken liver

Yep, got ur email. Will try those yummy recipes this weekend!! hehe some of it sounds yummy enough for me to eat too! Tongue

Btw, I have been gradually feeding him cooked food. Chicken breast, chicken & pork liver, pork meat, chicken neck....all boiled except for the chicken breast...i choose to steam. Been on that for about 2 weeks now and have gradually lower the portion of his kibble. so far no prob.

Until I decided to feed him liver ala sushi style Pirate

Well it's normal for the rim of a Spitz's eyes to be black (like his mouth). But then this black looks quite funny cause the skin's also wrinkled. I started applying the cream the vet gave but I stopped for awhile because it seems to sting a lot. Sparkle would whine when we put it on him. BUt now, no choice la...maybe it helps.

But what kind of moisturising cream do u suggest? What about the off the counter kind of Tea Tree Oil Creams? Are those ok? Human eye cream is different right? Even if it's not scented and all that? (wah if I use my cream on him my dad will say I i siau liao....Unsure)

thanks once again....Cool


htpol
Novice

Aug 29, 2003, 6:45 PM

Post #99 of 341 (16768 views)
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Re: [cshellz] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi cshellz,

Better don't feed your pet with chicken liver. Most of the chicken farmer are unethically in our country as the chicken rearing are too crowded in the farm and caused the infectious diseases outbreak and antibiotic abused as a consequences. I strongly believe that there is antibiotic residue in the liver and it's good for your pets once your pet is having bacterial infection without any antibiotic prescription from your vet. Besides that, the liver is a detoxifying organ and for sure there is toxin as well in the liver. I think is not a good recipe for our pet.Try to spray Orgaderm on your pet's affected skin to get rid off those "black skin'.


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 29, 2003, 7:00 PM

Post #100 of 341 (16767 views)
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Re: [cshellz] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi ...

Did some checking ... although some dogs do go through a "cleansing" routine when changing from a kibble to raw diet ... it is unlikely that Sparkle was going through that process after one meal of raw food ... It's more likely the "runs" was cause by one or a combination of the factors mentioned in my email ... Smile

The combination of kibble & fresh cooked food diet you were providing Sparkle on before his "runs" sounds good to me ... Sparkle also seemed to be doing well on it ... So, maybe a good idea to keep Sparkle on the combination of kibble & fresh cooked food routine for the time being - until he gets stronger & his system recovers balance ... a couple of months would be good.

Based on the recipies you mentioned, I would suggest ... Smile:

(A) You have reduced kibble and added "boiled chicken etc" or "boiled pork etc" ... Your supplement may be a little high in meat/protein content ... Suggest you try and maintain an approximate ratio of ... say ... 30% protein and 70% others in your supplement (the experts vary in their views as to what is the best ratio, but this ratio works for us ... you should tailor the ratio to suit our individual dog's reaction & needs).

*Aaah* ... do remember the caution when using chicken, poultry or pork meats & parts... Offal provides plenty of usual nutrients but maybe cow liver is better than chicken or pork liver ... especially when giving sushi style.

(B) When a dog is given too much protein ... that can cause adverse reaction ... the dog can start getting hives, allergies etc resulting sometimes in soft stools & the "runs" ...

(C) The 30% protein ... can be made up of a combination of meat, egg, cheese, fish, meat bones etc ... even the occassional can of tuna or sardine in water ... You can try using beef or lamb mince meat too ... it's easy to prepare and quick to cook. Suggest you give some bone 2 times a week.

(D) The 70% others can be made up of fresh blended veggies (always wash all veggies well), starchy veggie/roots (sweet potatos, potatoes (boiled till soft, with eyes removed) and grains (like oats, buckwheat, wheat bran, brown rice, lightly toasted wholemeal bread) ... I have been only suggesting brown rice so far because rice good for dog recovering from illness etc ... rice soothes the stomach.

(E) IMPORTANT: The important thing to remember is to rotate the ingredients in the 70%, so that Sparkle gets a range of ingredients over a period of time (each ingredient will provide its own spectrum of nutrients) ... the idea is while every meal need not be balanced, the diet as a whole is balanced. Most dogs do accept grain pretty well ... but observe and do not be afaid to change and vary.

(F) When introducing "raw" foods (esp. if dog has always been on kibble diet) ... the idea is to keep the bacteria count low while the dog is acclimatising the diet change ... this can be done by (a) pouring BOILING WATER (not just hot water) over the "raw" meat/bone before feeding ... OR (b) Rinsing the raw meat/bone in Apple Cider Vinegar ... both methods are useful for removing bacteria ...

Get well Sparkle ... SmileSmileSmile


(This post was edited by surchinmy on Aug 29, 2003, 7:18 PM)

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