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neurotoxicz
Dog Kichi

Apr 18, 2003, 4:54 AM

Post #1 of 89 (7935 views)
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Rottweilers	Can't Post

Hello to any of you who know something about rottweilers.Ok,my grand uncle has a rottweiler and it is a female.I pity it because he is deciding to neuter it because it doesn't look like a pure breed rottweiler even though the shop owner said it was.See,actually he wanted to breed it but now my grand auntie says it looks like a dobermann.She says the legs are too long and the face is not round.I on the other hand think it looks like a pure.The legs are rather long but it is normal because a female Rottweiler can reach up to 25 or 26 inches in height....the face looks round enough and the muzzle is also round.Maybe some of you can tell me how to tell a local rottweiler from a pure or mix.What are the characteristics or appearance that are expected of a pure rottweiler at about 3-4 months???

THANKS

chilimson
Member

May 4, 2003, 9:02 PM

Post #2 of 89 (7875 views)
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Re: [neurotoxicz] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi, if you are on line, there are many websites that post the Rottweiler standards. I have been keeping them and spend most of time tracking German bloodlines. If you have the pedigree certificates of the female, please send me the dog ancestary and I will try to let you know. However, I must caution you that there are a lot of pet traders that do not really acquire the genuine "certificate". Therefore, you just need to be very careful in acquiring what is "pure" and what is "mixed".

This is one European site that gives you some nice pictures as illustrations for what is a typical Rottie. http://www.casarenkamp.com/standardev.htm By the way, a female that is 25 or 26 inches is really really large for a female Rottweiler. Normally, that is the large size male, and check it out

There is also a website talking about head type in ANIWA.com, go check it out.

mianw
Novice

May 13, 2003, 11:19 PM

Post #3 of 89 (7834 views)
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Re: [neurotoxicz] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi,
I am an owner of a one-year old male rottweiler. By the way you described, I think your granduncle's dog is a rottweiler too. I hope he has not gone ahead and neutered it. Did he intend to breed?
I have been looking for a female rottweiler for my dog for the last 2 months. Would your granduncle still be interested to breed? By the way, mine has an MKA cert; I trust that your granduncle's has also got a cert.

neurotoxicz
Dog Kichi

May 14, 2003, 12:35 AM

Post #4 of 89 (7831 views)
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Re: [mianw] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hello there ,

Thanks for replying.So are you sure she's a pure?Her muzzle is roundish and the legs are quite long.She has been docked and i think looks like a Rott.My grand-uncle's neighbours say that she looks more like a dobermann than a rott so,i don't know.He intended to breed it but has made up his mind not to.He said it would be lots of work to nurse her and care for the pregnancy.

One more thing is she doesn't have a MKA cert.I don't think she has one.I would like to ask you what a MKA cert is.Can all citizens in Malaysia apply for it for their dogs?How much is the fee and things like that.I also have to tell you , one problem is ,you're probably staying in West Malaysia,well we are at East .So i don't think anything is possible.Happy searching for a 'wife' for your dog!I'm sure that it should be quite easy. Wink

[~*~NeuR0ToxiCz~*~]

chilimson
Member

May 17, 2003, 10:16 PM

Post #5 of 89 (7817 views)
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Re: [mianw] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

I am curious why do you want to breed your male Rottweiler. Could you please share his pedigree in the certificate? I understand in reading somewhere that Rottweilers are pretty popular in Malaysia, and I am not sure whether that is true. Could some help to let me know where would I get more information on who are the breeders in Malaysia? I certainly hope you do not just want to breed your Rottweiler because he is mature. This breed is not for everybody and it is because they become so popular in certain countries sometime earlier that created the huge problem of having bad temperament Rotties. Because people just wanted to make more money and do not care about the dogs they breed. Sound or unsound temperament, healthy or unhealthy, working or conformation type, etc...The fact that we have pure breed pedigree today is actually the gift and hardwork of people who cares and continue to ensure that we breed the best to the best. Anyway, I am not here to lecture ethical breeding, but am just trying to share that we must breed because of a desire to better the breed and not just to put two dogs together and produce a lot of puppies. Remember bad genes will continue to produce for many generations and so please do a little study before breeding.

neurotoxicz
Dog Kichi

May 19, 2003, 4:41 AM

Post #6 of 89 (7809 views)
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Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

Yeah...breeding is quite important.Some people do care more about money and aren't kind hearted enough to consider what might happen to the puppies.Abused for being not sound or steady in their temperament?Pity dogs like that.Put to sleep.Actually,talking about putting a dog down,although it might sound silly,i think every dog deserves a chance to live.Of course i'm talking about the sick dogs and not the ones that killed people because then again they might kill another person but....i think that natural death is better.I'm quite sure it's suffering but the dog never said it wanted to die but that is also because it can't talk,but the decision is not up to it....imagine..what IF ,like humans,how would you feel if you were in the dogs position?What if it wanted a chance to perhaps continue the remainder of its life instead of just putting it down?

Anyway, today,i saw my grand-uncle's ,neighbour's Rottweiler!It was a male and the owner brought it out.I was bringing my grand-uncle's GSD for a walk(puppy)..because mine is still not available Frown

...anyway,the Rottie was so BIGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Big as in the head.Enormous and it was drooling the whole time with the saliva flying everywhere.It wasn't very tall but the head was just GIGANTIC and strong.SCARY!It was just scary!It looked like it had a black pig-like body.Round and muscular.The ears were folded nicely like a Rottweiler's.Looked like a rottweiler but the legs were not that big and long....

Wanted to ask you,if it is normal for a puppy Rottie's ears to be not folded and kind of going to the back but not standing?I mean it is folded but just not neatly covering the earholes?What i mean is that it's not stretched out.But if you pull the ears it should be the size that should cover the holes.Should a Rottie be like that when it's small or should its ears be nicely covering the ears since they are small?Thanks! Smile

[~*~NeuR0ToxiCz~*~]

(This post was edited by neurotoxicz on May 19, 2003, 4:54 AM)

chilimson
Member

May 19, 2003, 8:19 AM

Post #7 of 89 (7803 views)
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Re: [neurotoxicz] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ha..ha.. Do not be intimidated by the Rottweiler! Sly

Some of them are like pussy cat! Just kidding. Recently, there are some breeders in Europe who are breeding Rottweiler with heads that looks like Mastiff, and I think they should have just got themselves a Mastiff instead of creating such aweful Rottweiler head. Honestly, without seeing what you see, I cannot comment. But the males should have broad head and massive chest, whereas the female head should be slightly smaller and the stop less pronounced. However, there are people who like to breed female with a male-like pronounced stop. To me, it does not matter, first they must meet the breed standard and must have great temperament. Otherwise, lots of trouble ahead for this breed because you cannot handle them, because of their sheer brute strength. That is why I spend many years studying the German bloodlines, because they have all the generations recorded and kept for reference. There is also pretty strict breeding guidelines and so you know what you are roughly getting, even though it is the act of nature finally. But genes are genes, it is there and become part of you, only whether there are dormant or dominant. Anyway, long story to tell, and will give you the website to browse if you are interested in genetics and breeding.

Now, Rottweiler tends to have folded flapped ears when they are alert, so you will see two triangles. However, some with smaller ears will not fold nicely and thus is called flying ears. When they are babies...their ears will not fold down as well. So really, how old are you talking about your puppies? If the ears are big enough, but not folded correctly, then you must taped it at a young ages like 6 weeks or more. This will help the fold line to be more permanent, and again let me know if you need the website to refer to. Hope it helps.

neurotoxicz
Dog Kichi

May 22, 2003, 5:17 AM

Post #8 of 89 (7791 views)
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Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

I know it's really hard to explain on the internet....do you know how i might save a scanned file small so that i can attach to the photo gallery or mail to you?I would TRY to take some photos of the dog and hopefully show you.I don't know how to make the scanned file small enough!Mine is TOO big!Help!
[~*~NeuR0ToxiCz~*~]

chilimson
Member

May 23, 2003, 8:36 AM

Post #9 of 89 (7785 views)
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Re: [neurotoxicz] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

I do not know what software you have in your system, so I will just advise you in a general form. All scanners comes with software to allow you to clip the physical layout in terms of size (like mm x mm) and also pixel density (higher pixel = higher disk space) which is important if you wanted to have a high quality colour print. If you do not need high quality print, then choose lesser pixel density or something call picture quality (low).

The other way is to use photo-editing software and clip it to the size you want and save as "what ever quality" you want. Use .jpeg format and not tiff or bmp, because they are not "compressed" are thus use very high disk space.

Therefore, if you want to keep those picture in digital form, then scan in high quality and resolution, so that you can keep in your digital album, then use your photo-editor to save in .jpeg or .jpg format to send as email.

Hope that helps.

neurotoxicz
Dog Kichi

May 24, 2003, 9:39 PM

Post #10 of 89 (7775 views)
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Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

OK,

I'll try to work my programme.I'm really not good in the scanning thing and haven't had any successful attempts at getting to complete what i wanted to do with the scanned picture FAST. Tongue

[~*~NeuR0ToxiCz~*~]

Polluxx
Enthusiast

May 28, 2003, 4:57 AM

Post #11 of 89 (7765 views)
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Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Chilimson,
Glad to see some one who is interested wt Rottie on this site. By the way I also like rottie very much.
Just seen ur reply abt the European breeder breeding for much larger head Shocked

, wht do u think of it ? But I still believe they do still produce the best bloodline coz they only breed when they have working degree, good temperament & correct conformation standard. by the way how many Rottie u own. Wht do u thk of local rottie standard ?
Hope to see this this thread kept alive by all Malaysian rottie lover on-board. Smile

"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)

chilimson
Member

May 28, 2003, 6:31 AM

Post #12 of 89 (7760 views)
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Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

Actually, I am a Singaporean and will still like to participate in this forum if you all do not mind, but please let me know if it is an issue. I have been joining and participating a few Rottweiler forums across the world. Anyway, my family have a few Rottweilers, and one from UK and the rest from German lines. I think it is okay to have broad head type, but not that of a Mastiff. Anyway, I think those current prevalent in Germany is either Doc or Noris bloodlines, coming through Rick or Jackomo/Balou. I know there are some who like the headpiece of Mambo vom Teufelsbrucke, but I think his kids tends to be a little on the Mastiff side that I do not prefer. I think it is a matter of taste and so will not argue to much. I think the key issue is temperament and working abilities. However, I think most people do not know how to handle them, and start moving towards the conformation or show type. Not that it is wrong, but it sacrifices the type and robustness of the Rottweiler. The worst thing to be happening is indiscriminate breeding in the former Eastern European block countries and nobody is interested in pointing them out, so there will be handsome or pretty Rottweilers, but have hip/elbow problem and temperament like a pussy cat. I am not saying all the dogs are like that, but there is pretty little control or governance of the clubs in such countries. This is just a warning and I hope those interested do their homework because there are so many Rottweiler sites in the world now. I had no access to all these information many years ago, but have learnt a lot during the last three years with the information I got from the web.

Polluxx
Enthusiast

May 29, 2003, 4:07 AM

Post #13 of 89 (7750 views)
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Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi chilimson,

I see, well I always go to S'pore to see ur GSD specialty show, (GSD is my favourite too) I do see occasionally a few folk will bring their rottie along. By the way is there a Rottie club in S'pore ? Have u attend M'sia Rottie Specialty show b4..?? wht do u thk of it....I thk nowadays...there a lot of Yugoslavia line rottie in M'sia.(translate big head)...wht abt the scene in Singapore ?

Talking abt the large head, I'm just curious b'coz U mentioned the large head started from from Noris & Doc line...I tot it begin with Furst von wolfert Turm & his brother......wht is is name... Frown

..??? I thk their bloodline is quite prevalent in Yugo...personally I dun mind their big head, but I hope as you have mentioned the East European will start breeding alond ADRK standard coz a ot of them r coming into our shore...and we do not know how much they will contribute to the gentic pool over here.

Well as for me I currently owned a GSD (working line), b'coz I had hard time convincing my family getting a rottie. Hopping to get one in the near future though.

Have u seen or read last yr ADRK klubsieger Eddy vom Hammerbachtal, I hope to see more like him around...very good working drive, nice structure , large head but not overly big and slightly on the large size (which I dun really mind ! Wink

)

Wish I could I own a dog like him !

"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)

chilimson
Member

May 29, 2003, 7:02 AM

Post #14 of 89 (7747 views)
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Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

I am not in GSD, and so never attend any of the specialty show. But there is a GSD club with very good participation and lot of activities. Keeping Rottweilers is my passionate hobby and I do intend to bring my Rottweiler to Malaysia for show because of the quarantine requirements. I think it is the same problem for Malaysian owners, who wanted to bring their dogs into Singapore. I do not have any information concerning the Rottie Specialty show in M'sia, and will appreciate if you could share the details.

Furst is now sold to Brazil, and he is really very handsome. He is K'Sg, B'Sg, Int. CH, and I own one of his son. His brother Flash was sold to Yugoslavia and that is where you see all his genes, but he died later after being sold to Russia.

I do not think Noris head is too large, but I think he looks great overall. Mambo von Teufelsbrucke is, and he son Cliff as well. Doc head is large as well, but he sons are great in headpiece. I think his son Rick produces some nice female headpiece.

Honestly, I do not think there is anything outstanding with Eddy, and think there are much nicer dogs in Germany. However, like everywhere when money corrupts, so many dogs owners did not participate. I think Eddy is B'Sg and Donner is K'Sg, but I may be wrong. Lot's of story, but why waste time talking about the negatives. Let me know if you are getting a Rottie, will be interested to know what you are looking for.

Polluxx
Enthusiast

May 30, 2003, 5:12 AM

Post #15 of 89 (7741 views)
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Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

I agree wt u I thk both Doc & Noris do have nice headpiece, 'large but overly large'. I believe this got to do with ADRK strict breeding guide which do not produce extreme.

By the way, why do u say Eddy is not that good, I thk he has wt him the rotweiler of the 90s look, good size, not over overly bulky like a mastiff and most importantly the working drive which I find very lacking in the rottie nowadays.

By the way do u breed ur dog, I have a fren who is a rottie breeder...he told me he has trouble getting getting progeny wt the desire bone size even though they have the correct height. Both of his dog is of large size and wt strong bone (imported !!) ..he suspect our tropical weather has an effect on it....do u have any advice..???

"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)

chilimson
Member

May 30, 2003, 7:14 AM

Post #16 of 89 (7738 views)
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Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ahh! This is an interesting question that I have been asking around for a long long time, and I have no answers. A lot of speculations and I know that some people are also experimenting it. I have posted in another thread, please search for "calcium supplement and problem". If possible, please post or email me your friend bloodline because I am interested to study this topic as well. By the way, what you mentioned is true for GSD and GR as well. I think it is true for all large dogs, and the average is always smaller. I am not in the dog trade and do not breed for a living, will do it more for experimenting or try to ensure that the great bloodline is preserved here after importing them from Germany. Therefore, only breed once for the bitch because she came from a great bloodline, but please let me know what is the diet and routine your friend does with his dogs.

Polluxx
Enthusiast

Jun 18, 2003, 6:49 AM

Post #17 of 89 (7700 views)
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Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Chilimson,
sorry for not replying earlier...abt ur query regarding the my fren dog bloodline...well I'm not too sure...but I believe I saw "vd Nedermolen" (sire)bloodline on the pedigree once..I believe that is Dutch rite !
Anyway abt wht u mentioned tht u only breed to "preserve the German Bloodline"..wht do u mean by that...?? u meant its working temperament or conformation wise ??
I m fascinated by wht I've read regarding Ives Eulenspiegel & his son Dingo....it seem that they were of stronger minded dogs than current generation of Klubsieger. Wht do u thk of the current generation of ADRK Rottie...have they turn mellower. ..Wht do u thk of Balou v.Siberlick....been reading a lot abt him (his progeny) ..seems to be doing very well..wht is he contributing..his headpiece or his overall qualities...wht is he producing in terms of working temperament...! would appreciate ur comment. Thks ! Wink

"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)

chilimson
Member

Jun 20, 2003, 7:02 AM

Post #18 of 89 (7681 views)
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Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

There is really not many Rottweilers owners, and most buy from pet shop that import them from Australia (no quarantine). I imported a pair from Germany, and they are both kids of Bunderseigers. Therefore, the Singapore Kennel Club asked me to breed to keep their lines, so I did only once and that is what I meant by keeping the German line.

Both the dogs are PINK papers, which means that all the parentage had at least SchH 1 working title. However, since both fathers are also B.Sg, then they are also excellent conformation type. Excellent temperament, because the Germans had already decided that they must breed them as such in order to ensure that Rottweilers will not be banned or "terminated". Therefore, I think the Germans do a pretty job in controlling the bloodlines and recording them accurately. Like all things, there is always a distribution of sharpness and "friendly" type. But I think the days of vicious Rottie from Germany is over, however I cannot say the same for many other countries. That is why I spend a lot more time trying to study and understand the German bloodlines.

Balou is now the most bred Stud dog in Germany and probably outside of Germany as well. There are strength and weakness for every dog, and I think he is equivalent to Rick von Burgthann in terms of producing quality. Go search the websites and you will see many many breedings of Balou, but he is having some misses recently. He seems to pass on his headpiece and size (huge) pretty well, but he has other problems. Therefore, the female half is very important I think, and so you must select well.

Polluxx
Enthusiast

Jun 21, 2003, 7:03 AM

Post #19 of 89 (7673 views)
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Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote :
"But I think the days of vicious Rottie from Germany is over, however I cannot say the same for many other countries. "

Well I m very new to this breed, but I have always tot they have to be strong minded , very dominant, or maybe the correct term should be self assure & not overly friendly to strangers. I meant tht was the idea they were bred for ..rite ?? to control/drive the butcher's cattle , to protect their owner & their purse string, police service dog (at the turn of the century)...all this calls for a very self assure, steady and fearless dog and most of all loyal. My question is can the ADRK Klubsieger continue producing dog of this nature...or maybe I'm 20-30 yrs too late to have a chance to own such a dog.

Wht will happen to them in the coming next 20-30 yrs .....lap dog...?? tht will be kinda of scary....

I thk V-rated dogs should have a very good protection routine or Korung report so that we can continues preserving their working temperament. Wht do u thk.....wht I m trying to put acroos is V-rated must have very good conformation + excellent working temperament to set them aside from the rest of the field.

Back to my earlier post abt Balou...do u know any progeny he has produce tht is in any kind of working service...such as Police K-9, Army dog, sports dog or S&R. Crazy

..or most of them r just in show... Unsure

.???
The reason I m asking this is b'coz...I've read at other forum...Rick vd Burgthan produce a lot good conformation but not in terms of Korung rep. Just wanna share something my fren was telling me abt breeding a good overall rottie....get a good working bitch (wt correct conformation) beed it with a V-rated dog (definitely must not be shy or timid) wht do u thk..?? Tongue

By the way which klubsieger bloodline r u preserving in ur breeding...I m very curious..... Tongue

!! did u happen to go to the recent MKA specialty show in Ipoh...well too bad I missed it ! If u did go....do share wt me wht u thk of the quality of rottie we have in M'sia....!!

"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)

chilimson
Member

Jun 21, 2003, 10:19 AM

Post #20 of 89 (7671 views)
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Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

I think it will be a lengthy debate on what will be the character or temperament of a Rottweiler in 20 to 30 years. Only responsible breeders and responsible owners could possibly preserve that working Rottweiler that you hope to have as a honourable heritage. I think the governments and generic population will not tolerate any more "accidents" similar to the one in KL several years ago. I totally agree with you that Rottweiler should not be a Lab or GR, but people start to buy Rottweiler without understanding the need to train and learning how to handle them because they are looking for a guard or macho dog for security reasons.

Anyway, I don;t think you need to pay for V rated dog for protection or SchH or VPG (replaced SchH), because all pink-certificate pedigree should have sufficient drive and temperament for protection work. People make comments and compare Rick, and I do agree to a certain extend if you are doing a generic commentation. Rick produces so many litters and puppies, and really you must look at the bitch as well. Anyway, from a bloodline standpoint, I think Balou coming from Jackomo and Noris are stronger temperament dog. Therefore in that sense...hmmm..I will say he is a stronger male than Rick in terms of temperament. My view is that there is no perfect dog, and so you must choose what you really want. One of Balou's kid Ambassador von Shambala just won the V1 Working title in the World Rottweiler Show in Dortmund a few weeks ago. Search the web and you could see his picture. By the way, Balou has a half brother Vico von Flugschneise (out of Jackomo) and I think he had a stronger temperament than Balou. He is banned from Korung because his trainer made a mistake by pushing him just before his Korung, and he "attacked" the judge when he tried to measure his chest Sly

.

I am not a breeder by profession and not even serious in breeding, and I read a lot about genetics and Rottweiler from a passionate hobby perspective. Therefore, I do agree with getting a good working bitch to start with, but definitely not any "V" rated dog. That is why people need to study about bloodline because of phenotype and genotype heriditary dorminace. Therefore, even though it is hard to quantify, I would say pick a "V" rate stud to complement what you think if inadequate in your bitch line (that is look at his parentage and direct siblings). Wink

My male father is Furst vom Wolfert Turm (K'Sg96,B'Sg95,etc.), brother of Flash that is found in many Yugoslavian and Romanian lines. My dam's father is Brutus von Hammerschemeide (B'Sg96 and son of Pascha v Hegestrauch - perfect scoring 300 pts. working dog in German history).

I am not in the dog show circuit nor in any pet trade and I spent a lot of time working and travelling. Therefore, I just do not have time to visit regional shows. I have learnt something about people in the dog trade over the past so many years, and therefore, I do not comments about dogs openly in the dog circuit. I have seen some very nice looking adult dogs that are imported from East European countries, but I need to caution you that you can never be certain of the quality of their bloodlines. Having the piece of paper is just not good enough to prove anything, and I will leave my remarks as such.

Polluxx
Enthusiast

Jun 24, 2003, 7:20 AM

Post #21 of 89 (7651 views)
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Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

I agree wth u,...I thk the some breeder especially the East European r breeding for larger head instead of looking for the overall improvement especially in the temperament side. I even read from the GSD forum tht some East Euro breeder (not all of them)fake breeding papers.....so as to sell their dog.

By the way, abt Ambassador...I thk overall he is a very nice rottie...heard tht his working drv is very good (maybe from his dam..Cleo v Hammerbachtal)..but does he re-produce the working drv side in his progeny...I thk the jury is out yet for this dog. Still I hope he has a go for ADRK Klubsieger by virtue of his working drv & overall physical attributes....by the way is he related 2 Eddy v hammerbachtal which I've mentioned earlier in my post.

I m not actually looking 4 v-rated dog (I dun really mind) I m actually worry that in the not too distant future...just like wht happened to the GSD if winners/Klubsieger is consistently chosen for their conformation rather than their working drv, temperament & other overall qualities then followed by breeders keep breeding to them (winners)only.....well sooner or later we'll have genetic bottleneck where most if not all rottie can be traced back to very few winners thus causing the overall health of the breed to fall.

I dun know whether u agreed wt me... but they(ADRK) should occasionally choose excellent service dog such as police k-9 or Army dog to be winner in their Klubsieger-Zuchtschau
(as long as they dun have disqualifying fault ) ....u know .... just 2 re-juvenate the genepool a bit & also to preserve the working drv. I know the ADRK hav their Duestche Meisterschaft (Working competition) but I dun thk they r too many breeders out there tht take notice of it or choose their stud dog from the winners there.

By the way , u got urself a very nice breeding pair there......so how did the litter turn out...?? will u still be breeding them again the forseeable future...??

"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)

chilimson
Member

Jun 28, 2003, 8:13 AM

Post #22 of 89 (7632 views)
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Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

I have learnt from lesson from importing from a Croatian kennel and will never ever do it again. The dog had HD and it took me a while to get the breeder to admit that the stud they used had problem. Then I had problem getting the pedigree and there is just too much pain associated with dealing with them. Like I say, this is just my hobby and not a business, and so I did not even bother to ask for replacement. Because I do not think I will get a good one anyway, and what would I do with another "normal" dog. Anyway, just do your due diligence if you are getting dogs from internet sites, and also countries that do not have transparent governance processes. Best advise is visit the kennel and make sure that you pick the puppy or dog you want personally. Get health check done and ship per your instruction.

I think you know what you are looking for, but am not sure why you think that the current gene pool do not have strong working dog. I do agree that the current winners are not as strong as maybe what you like, but the ZTP and korung trails really is different from all the conformation shows that are held in Malaysia and Singapore. I really think that there are strong working dogs in the current gene pool, but definitely not those quantity that are prevalent before the early nineties. Again, it will be a disaster for the breed is such strong dogs are breed in large numbers and do not fall into the hands of strong owners! Anyway, I will not debate on this, but definitely there are strong working breeding lines out there. You can find them, and they may not be seigers because this is the changed expectation of the judges in Germany.

Like I said, I only breed once and did not keep any of the puppies. I did not like the physical outcome too much because they tends to be smaller and less massive than the imports. However, their temperaments is great and I have not idea what is the cause of the smaller inherited sizes. I have written to many forums and breeders, and no one could really share why local breeding do not yield dogs with substances. No, I do not intend to breed this pair anymore.

Polluxx
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Jun 28, 2003, 9:10 PM

Post #23 of 89 (7629 views)
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Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Chilimson,

Sorry to hear wht abt ur experience wt the Crotian Kennel Unsure

....maybe u can give us the name...so that the ppl on board will know and avoid this kennel. By the way, is the kennel registered wt ADRK or IFR...maybe u can write to them to complain ??

I do agree wt u regarding wht u say abt strong dog falling in the hand of wrong owner...I have seen dogs that r abuse, some even tie-up (short leash) whole day long by their owners ...{I can't imagine this kind of thing is still happening at this modern age. Mad

} I also do belive tht how & with whom does a breeder place their puppies with is very important. I do have in mind to get a puppy from Euro...but haven't write to the breeder yet....maybe if I decided to go ahead...I will seek ur opinion regarding the breeding pair...if its ok wt you..(well...lets just say the dam is of same litter as Ambassador....!!}..I did asked the breeder before abt his puppies price but tht was almost 9 moths ago,.....hopefully the breeder will not raised his price on this litter .. Sly

......

Regarding the lack of substance on rottie bred in this region, I wonder have u ever try breeding a large substantial male to an oversize bitch .....??? would the litter then be large but not over size...?? also how abt raising them in air-conditioned kennel...I have heard some showline GSD bred in Malaysia is kept in air-conditioned kennel to help keep their fur plush ...??? but I dun know whether it will help to promote their growth..??? ...Regarding ur last breeding pair...u were saying that the progeny is smaller and less substance.....do u mean thy r shorter and also of smaller bone size..??? wht abt their head size...I'm curious since the grandsire is Furst ..???

"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)

chilimson
Member

Jun 28, 2003, 11:07 PM

Post #24 of 89 (7627 views)
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Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

I think there is more than that kennel out there that are both IFR and ADRK registered, which will give you all kinds of crap. I really do not think these bodies are there to police all these stuff and it always comes back to contract and legality. Anyway, I do not wish to name any kennel as they do have some nice dogs as well, and it will be terrible to penalize the dogs because of the breeders' conduct. Anyway, this is my opinion and hope you could respect that, and I am more willing to help you or give you opinions once you have selected your dog.

The prices are quite stable for puppy, unless you are getting a titled dog. I think it is a little more difficult if you are trying to buy from famous kennel, because they will tends to give the first choices to someone they know or they keep for their own. You should try to make a trip there if you are seriously thinking of starting a kennel with good bloodlines.

Actually, both my male and female are already large in size comparing with the standards. However, the kids are smaller in height and also size. Sorry, I do not have an oversize bitch and do not intend to buy one, as I am not in the pet trade. Therefore, I cannot tell what is the issue here, but definitely not food because I give them good quality kibble and human grade beef. I have heard about someone raising GSD in airconditioned environment, but I am just puzzled how to explain why. Anyway, it is just too much work and I will just import one or two if mine crosses the bridge, or I will just give up the hobby. I have not come across any puppy that produces Furst head, and it is such a shame. But they definitely possess his temperament, which is great!

Polluxx
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Jul 2, 2003, 9:29 PM

Post #25 of 89 (7611 views)
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Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Chilimson,

Ok la I won't ask for the name of kennel u got ur dog from. I m just curious only. By the way I've just recently read on the net that HD/ED is about 30% cause by genetic and the rest is due to food and environment...so wht is your take on this.

Talking abt the price of import pups...in your experience how much is the average price of a pup (EURO $) cost in Europe (I mean places like Germany, Belgium & Yugo). This will be most helpful as I m corresponding with the breeder right now. And also how much was the shipping (air) charges to S'pore (I m guessing it should be almost the same to KLIA). Maybe I can also get him to transit in S'pore & follow by bringing him over myself as I m staying in JB (has anybody done this before ?....it seems that there is no quarantine if brought over from S'pore) Well it is very unlikely to for me to fly over to chk out the litter..but it seems the breeder is quite ethical so I guess I've just got to trust him. Anyway I dun thk I will be getting the puppy this yr as I think I've just missed the breeding...so maybe nx yr ...good also la! I can find out how did the litter turn out.

By the way...talking abt the good quality kibble for feeding dogs like Rottie & GSD....well my bro been feeding his GSD (co-owned by him & me he..he Tongue

)which is now almost 7 months old but it seems that his growth has stopped at this stage ~ almost an adult bitch size )..We've been feeding him all the times mixture of Kibbles (Canidae + Innova+ Abady[smaller portion]) ...with occasional brown rice/meat throw in once in a while...is this sufficient..??? Normally long will their growth rate last ?? (6 mth, 9mths or 1 yr ??) Also we've been trying to keep him on the lean side...but we r afraid that we might be overdoing it..??? Wht is your opinion on this ??

Thanx !

"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)

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