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Coronavirus vs. Parvo (can the vet be the place the dog gets it?)







liz.1106
Novice


Jul 6, 2006, 7:42 AM

Post #1 of 13 (2022 views)
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Coronavirus vs. Parvo (can the vet be the place the dog gets it?) Can't Post

Hi, this is my first post online after the introduction of new members page.

I got an adorable litle furball from a pet shop in Penang in the beginning of June this year. Had him for 3 weeks more or less. Just when i bought so many new toys for him, and suddenly he just fell sick and days later died in a horrible way.

I brought FURBY (Pom/poodle mix) to a vet in Penang for his 2nd jab of vaccine just a week before he started showing symptoms of the virus. I suspect that his untimely death was directly caused by a thermometer used during a routine check-up inserted into his err... cute li'l behind before the injection.



I strongly encourage dog-owners to bring along their own thermometer to the vet to minimize risks of infection from other dogs. Furby started vomiting on Friday evening and i brought him back to the same vet on Sat morning and again on Sun morning. There was no suspicion of a viral infection. The doc just gave some medicine for stomach upset and Furby started having diarrhea on Sat afternoon. His condition got worse on Sunday nite and on Mon morning we woke up to find blood with diarrhea. We quickly took him to another different vet and "hospitalized" him and they gave him 3 injections to stop the vomiting and diarrhea and another was vitamin for his fragile state.



He passed away at 2.40p.m. that same afternoon and I arrived just 5 mins after to visit him only to be told by the Dr. that he just passed. I went in to see him and the Vet said that it might be Coronavirus or Parvovirus. Both had similar symptoms and that if the dog dies within 3-5 days after showing the first symptom, it is usually a viral infection. And viruses normally have an incubation period and donít immediately show any signs immediately after contracting it. We were shocked by the drastic change in behavior as he was super hyper that whole week, and I even stayed at home with him the whole day of Friday to play with him when he started to vomit at about 7.30p.m. We thought it was indigestion, but he kept on purging every 1-hour interval until there was nothing left but water. It only stopped when I fed him 100 plus. Sigh...ironic that the one place animals go to be cured was the one place that I think got him killed.



I have no other pets at home and we didn't take him out of the house since we brought him back from the pet shop 3 weeks before. And no, the virus wasn't from the pet shop as the incubation period would have been too long, it normally takes about 1 to 2 weeks to show the first symptom, the Doc said. She agreed that the most likely place was during the 2nd jab. And I looked up in a canine disease & illnesses website, the most common way to contract the Coronavirus or Parvovirus was via infected feces, hence the only way in was the thermometer used. Perhaps it wasn't thoroughly disinfected or sterilized before inserting it into Furby. We wondered if we were dreadful parents and aren't meant to have pets as he was our first puppy. We just love him so much and to think that such an innocent little baby can suffer and die so horribly is unthinkable. I'm afraid this will put me off ever having another dog as the grief was too great. I wasn't able to work the day after he died as I was crying the whole nite and day.



Are there any cures to this virus and how do we get rid of the remaining bacteria? I got rid of the cage and his blanket, and submerged his toys and other stuff in hot water with dettol, but I'm still worried that if we give the stuff to others, it might spread the virus to them as well? Am i supposed to throw everything away? Any feedback??





FURBY, may you rest in peace and know that your family loves u still
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jessicaohh
ALPHA


Jul 6, 2006, 4:57 PM

Post #2 of 13 (2012 views)
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Re: [liz.1106] Coronavirus vs. Parvo (can the vet be the place the dog gets it?) [In reply to] Can't Post

hi, i'm so sorry to read this....i understand your feeling well......i have my pup early june like you do too..and she is due for her 2nd jab...i am going to bring her to a vet in Penang...and after reading your article, i am kinda worried.....could you please let me know which vet you bring him to for the 2nd jab? and which one you bring him to be hospitalised? perhaps the name of the road will do if it's not convenient to mention it in the forum......

i'l b bringing her to the vet tonite......now i am scared.......sigh.....

is he hyperactive too after the 2nd jab? only a week after the jab that he shows sign? but if i were to buy my own thermometer..is the thermometer of a standard size? i'm not too sure.....

sorry for asking so many questions at this time......

and don you ever feel that you are not a suitable parents.......initially when i got my pup (another one), i bought her for a medical check up and she was diagnosed with hepatozoonosis...(somekind of hepatitis).....i brought her to 3 vets and all of them advised me to return to the petshop if the petshop is willing to take her back.....i was so sad...i cried day and nite when i heard the news....cant decide if i should return her or juz keep her...but vet says once she is infected it will be a lifelong infection, and for a first timer like me, it will b best if i return her in exchg for a healthy pup......after almost a week, i returned her......and even after dat, i cried too.....and like you, i tot i could not love any other pup like i love her...and i even think that i am not a good parent......

and after another week, i got my current pup....now it has been 3 weeks since i hv her and initially she has a lot of problems too....but this week, she seems hyperactive and hv appetite.....and she is due for her 2nd jab.......now i am worried again....i don think i can take it if i were to lose another pup........any one outthere....pls advise...thanks!




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liz.1106
Novice


Jul 7, 2006, 6:58 AM

Post #3 of 13 (1998 views)
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Re: [jessicaohh] Coronavirus vs. Parvo (can the vet be the place the dog gets it?) [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Jessica, thanks for your reply and so sorry to hear about your first puppy.... lucky the pet shop can exchange another one for you though. Sometimes they might deny responsibility one.

Well, I'm starting to think that it's better to lock the puppy up at home and not take it anywhere as there's so many cases of diseases and illnesses now. Ever heard the virus that can be contracted even when the dogs are not even near each other? Supposedly it can be contagious up to 100m away! Err..I dunno if i'm allowed to mention the vet's location or not in here, might invoke some pretty angry responses, but i guess I should share my thoughts and experience, after all it's always better to learn from other ppl's mistake rather than making your own.

The vet I took FURBY to at first was located somewhere in between USM and Tmn. Lip Sin...and the hospitalized one was a corner house at a main road between Gurney Drive and Youth Park....is that specific enough for you? I'm not saying that I hold the vet responsible, but i'm just saying that accidents do happen and the vet has got a helper in the room who cleans up after a dog leaves, but how sure are we that it's 100% clean? We will never know I guess. Just to tell u though, there's always a risk involved when going to any vet, or perhaps leaving your puppy/dog with a boarder or just to a groomer to bathe your little furball. I think it's just the dog's luck...i see many other dogs who are still alive and well even after going to the first vet i mentioned. My sister's dogs went there just a day before mine did and they are fine.

After the 2nd jab, he was a bit quiet and inactive but i think he was sore especially at the area where the needle went in. The next day however.....SO ACTIVE like 5 times the normal days, and normal days he was already running here and there like mad. Crazy doggy...he was still very very hyper up to the time he started vomiting 5 days after the 2nd jab.

Dunno lah, the personal thermometer was just an idea I had that minimizes risks, for example sharing needles between patients might lead to AIDS right, so they then used disposable needles. Why can't they have the same concept here? But the thermometer I saw the vet used was the normal one that is battery operated with digital display. Like human one lah, can get from any pharmacy. If i were to have another dog, i don't mind getting a new thermometer everytime it goes for a visit to the vet...after all how many times a year only? But still there are so many other ways the dog can still be infected by sumthing, like i said loh, it's the luck of the dog, mostly.

It's just that the vet didn't even suspect it was a viral infection, if not Furby could have been admitted for observation or put on drip or something earlier. Even if cannot cure, at least we have the choice to put it to sleep so that it wouldn't suffer so much. On the morning of the day he died, i carried him and told him we were not giving him up, but we were so worried we wanted him to have professional help 24-7 at least until he's able to eat on his own. we promised to visit him twice a day even during work so that he wouldn't think that we don't love him anymore. He was looking up into my eyes as if he was trying to tell me sumthing and was whimpering softly, like in pain. when i went to see him after he just died, i saw a lot of blood around his butt and tail and can smell the blood immediately after i opened the door to the room he was in. For such a small puppy about 0.86kg, he must have been suffering like hell, and to think that if we knew it was a viral infection and it wasn't likely that he'll survive, we could have spared him the pain earlier. The change was too drastic and too fast. We were unprepared for it and the worst thing is that there were no vets open at night. I tried calling a few during the first day itself but no one picked up. So, I had to wait until the next morning. I think this is a problem a lot of dog owners are facing. especially first timers. Can panic one u know?

Anyway, i called up the pet shop where i got him and the first vet's office to tell them that Furby died due to viral infection so that they can be extra careful and keep an eye on the dogs who were at the vet the same time I brought Furby there for consultation. The vet's office just said "Oh, we always clean thoroughly one, we know what to do one, don't worry lah" I'm thinking, "yeah right!" So good luck to you, and i read in one of the threads here that Parvo virus can survive up to 6 months or more even after cleaning the infected areas thoroughly and carefully. Hope your new puppy will be lucky though. and there's really nothing much u can do except to hope nothing happens to it.

Cheers!


jessicaohh
ALPHA


Jul 7, 2006, 7:05 PM

Post #4 of 13 (1995 views)
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Re: [liz.1106] Coronavirus vs. Parvo (can the vet be the place the dog gets it?) [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Liz,

Thanks for the reply and word of encouragement...Smile yes...i agree with you...it really depends on the dog's luck....we cant really do much except to take the necessary precautions....

yes...thanks for the description..i think i know which vet that you mention...yeah.....i read the same too that parvovirus can last for more than 6 months...so i guess the only thing we can do is pray and hope for the best!!!!!!

for all i know, there's one vet that is open at nite and can b on call 24 hours...Gill's vet....at bagan jermal...u know?

i don dare to bring my pup out from the house except to vet or to groomer....trying to minimize the risk...and i don even dare to put her down on the floor when i bring her out.......

now i think can really understand how my mum would felt when i was a kid or when i fall sick......hmmm...Cool




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liz.1106
Novice


Jul 8, 2006, 10:02 AM

Post #5 of 13 (1980 views)
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Re: [jessicaohh] Coronavirus vs. Parvo (can the vet be the place the dog gets it?) [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Jessica, Yeah the vet u mentioned in bagan jermal was the one i went to for the second opinion and to get it hospitalized. however, i did try to call them at about 8+p.m. on the eve of my puppy's death and the person who answered the phone told me that they were closed and to bring my puppy the next morning. i tried to tell them it was an emergency and that my puppy was very very sick, but the guy told me there were no doctors around. So, i didn't insist. i didn't really know if that was normal practice or not. I doubt they could do anything to save my dog anyway if it was a viral infection, but i guess they could only just put it to sleep to avoid suffering and pain. Oh well, i guess it's no one's fault really.

How did your puppy's vaccination go? Which vet did u go to? Is she hyper active now? Hope she's ok. Smile


tuckfook
Member

Jul 11, 2006, 3:44 AM

Post #6 of 13 (1959 views)
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Re: [liz.1106] Coronavirus vs. Parvo (can the vet be the place the dog gets it?) [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,

It's so sad to read all your posts.

I feel that in many cases, it is the pet shops that are to blame for many diseases as they handle many dogs which do harbour diseases and it's of course next to impossible to disinfect the whole place all the time.

The demand for puppies also means that breeders are encouraged to part with the puppies when they are not ready to leave the mothers. Remember that the mother's milk is probably the best protection the young pup can have as she passes to the pups all the immunity that she has.

Vaccination schedules are also important and many pet shops do not keep to the schedule as it costs them money. I personally feel that puppies should only go to new homes only after their 2nd vaccination if not the third. Paying the breeder for the extra care may ensure the survival of your puppy.

A very common carrier and cause of distemper, parvovirus etc. is the mongrel that roams the streets. These are carriers and naturally resistant to these diseases. Wind, feaces on shoes, etc. are common way of infection. Puppies like to smell, lick and chew all sorts of new and strange things, eg. shoes, clothing and especially tyres that have rolled over all that muck. Rats and their droppings also cause problems.

I have used both vets mentioned and find their disinfection adequate so far. Usually a spray of Chlorox or other disinfectants is adequate to kill the virus immediately. The WHO recommended disinfectant for SARS virus is 1% chlorox spray. I'm sure vets worry about their reputation too ! I feel that it is probably the last place you will catch virus from. Cannot say the same for fungal infections though !

The next time you choose a puppy, try get one direct from the breeder or and older pup that already has had all the shots.

Tuckfook.


jessicaohh
ALPHA


Jul 11, 2006, 7:14 PM

Post #7 of 13 (1951 views)
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Re: [liz.1106] Coronavirus vs. Parvo (can the vet be the place the dog gets it?) [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh really? they said that no docs around? hmmmm..i'm not sure about dat.....hvnt tried calling them yet...but what i saw from their website is that they provide 24 hrs on call for emergency.....but sometimes what is in the website might not b the same in real life......

my pup hasn't gone for her 2nd vaccination yet. i alwiz bring her to the bagan jermal vet...somehow i trust that vet more than any other...but as she is still having her throat infection (not fully recovered yet though vet say is improving)...vet advised that i delay her 2nd jab..so i'l hv to bring her to the vet again this week to see if she's fit for her 2nd jab....well...currently she is still active and very naughty too....likes to bite a lot.....

will update you again......thanks!




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jessicaohh
ALPHA


Jul 11, 2006, 7:18 PM

Post #8 of 13 (1948 views)
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Re: [tuckfook] Coronavirus vs. Parvo (can the vet be the place the dog gets it?) [In reply to] Can't Post

yes...i agree with you...some pet shops are very irresponsible...all they think of is making money....they don really care how will the customer feel in the event the puppy they bought is sick and died.....the emotional hurt that involves is worse than the monetary lose.......

i'm quite afraid of pet shop too nowadays......not sure which pet shop is really trustworthy....but i don know any breeder either......u know any of them? perhaps can give me the contact.......thanks!

as for older pup.....there are hardly any at the pet shop...before i got my current my pup, i tried looking for at least 6 mths old pup...but all the pet shops i wen to in pg told me they don hv such mature dog....they hv 2 mths old oni....sigh.....




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tuckfook
Member

Jul 12, 2006, 4:33 AM

Post #9 of 13 (1939 views)
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Re: [jessicaohh] Coronavirus vs. Parvo (can the vet be the place the dog gets it?) [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,

MKA has a list of registered breeders for the whole country.

Look in the classified ads in the papers. Some breeders advertise. You have to be patient. Some breeders are breed specific so their pups are not always available.

If you like Beagles, check out the Hounds-beagle owners in Penang thread.

I now almost exclusively keep beagles so if you like to know more, ask questions in the above thread. There are many active posters in that forum.


liz.1106
Novice


Jul 14, 2006, 2:48 AM

Post #10 of 13 (1923 views)
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Re: [tuckfook] Coronavirus vs. Parvo (can the vet be the place the dog gets it?) [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi there Tuckfook,

Thanks for your reply. I agree with you whole heartedly about the risks of infection from pet shops. Was quite concerned actually, looking at all the warnings from members of this site with previous experiences of puppies dying a week after they bought it from pet shops. Although, some pet shops may be more careful than most, perhaps there's always a higher risk when a lot of other dogs can come and go whenever the owners bring them in for their grooming session.

I didn't really suspect the pet shop in my case though because the owner of the pet shop (also a breeder) bring her own dogs to the shop everyday and even leave them overnight there. Of course they are in their own room but they do come out into the other dogs-for-sake areas sometimes. I've also personally scrutinized the other puppies also for sale at the time I bought my Furby and they look alive and well with healthy looking "droppings" when I went back to tell them that Furby died due to viral infection. I guess if Furby contracted the virus there, won't some other puppy also would be exposed to the same risk as they are all about the same age as he was?

I'll admit that I didn't do much homework before getting a dog and I wasn't even aware that pet shops are not really health conscious but just want to make $$$ only, so this experience has really opened up my eyes. I only started being a member of this site after I got a puppy, but I got the care giving advice from my sister who has 2 terriers who visits the same vet and they were ok too.

As for vets, well, some dogs go there for vaccination and others, because they r sick. Is there a risk of our due-to-be vaccinated puppies getting exposed to potential fatal disease just by going near them? I mean I'm sure the vets keep their areas cleaned thoroughly and all but do we actually know the regularity of their cleaning schedule? I'm just wondering whether it would be possible that they just examined an infected dog via a thermometer in the butt, then rinse it and submerge into a disinfectant, and then re-use the same thermometer to insert into another puppy within the next hour or so in the same day? With the number of patients waiting in line at one time, I'm sure they won't have time to clean everything with Chlorox after EVERY patient...the risk is always there between the time of each cleaning session. Maybe some dogs are more resistant, so they don't get infected but some have weak resistance. Is it after all less of a risk if we were to bring our own thermometer to the vet just to be sure? Of course, I'm not saying they are 100% to be blamed but i guess all I'm saying that as much as some pet shops are to be directly responsible for not giving the proper clean environment for unvaccinated dogs, but sometimes vet clinics may not be entirely safe either.

Like I mentioned earlier to JessicaOhh, it also depends on the dog's luck loh, mayb that day so "chun" was immediately after the doc inspected an infected dog via the same thermometer, cannot say one mah right? anyway, u mentioned that cleaning everything with Chlorox can immediately kill all the virus effectively, but then I heard that Parvovirus can survive up to 6-8 months, so is Chlorox enough to thoroughly disinfect 100% clean, and when is the earliest I can get another furball to join the family? My family misses having a dog to care for and feels the emptiness of our lives without one now especially having our first one before, and was so shortlived. Any advice? Thanks!!

Liz


liz.1106
Novice


Jul 14, 2006, 3:03 AM

Post #11 of 13 (1923 views)
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Re: [jessicaohh] Coronavirus vs. Parvo (can the vet be the place the dog gets it?) [In reply to] Can't Post

can the puppy wait so long to have 2nd jab? but if the vet knows about it and advice u to wait till her throat infection clears then i think should be ok kua. Anyway, if u happen to go to the vet again soon, mayb u can ask them about how to minimise risk of infection from other dogs especially when going to the vet, mayb can enquire about the separate thermometer thingy, see what they say loh. of course they probably say that they are very hygienic and careful and all that but just for our peace of mind loh. See what they recommend. but i know the doc from the bagan Jermal vet did admit that a puppy MAY contract viruses or diseases from a vet clinic, and there's always a risk if you bring the dog out of the house at all lah, but these cannot say loh. the Doc told me this herself! but i forgot to ask her if there's a way to eliminate any possibility at all, but i think the answer is no. There's nothing anyone can do to ensure 100% that their pet won't be exposed to any health risk even if the dog don't get out of the house. It's just not that likely only. but still canhappen right? Some diseases are spread through air, so if a neighbour's dog has it, then chances are it's possible.

So your poodle looks very very adorable in the avatar. Is that her? Aiyoh, I miss having a furball kacau kacau me lah. When they look at you with very kesian face and innocent wide eyes, even if they r naughty also, I cannot bear to scold them already. Beh-tahan only, especially aftyer scolding them they try to manja against you like very sad and kesian, but after play with them again, then the naughtiness come back liau! Your puppy same ah? Got bark at night or not? They really like to bite things hor? I guess the teeth very itchy-fying so they like to bite, will feel better. He he.. send my regards to your little baby!


jessicaohh
ALPHA


Jul 14, 2006, 4:30 PM

Post #12 of 13 (1914 views)
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Re: [liz.1106] Coronavirus vs. Parvo (can the vet be the place the dog gets it?) [In reply to] Can't Post

hey....i took my pup to vet yesterday for check up and she took her 2nd jab liau! finally.......phew..i was relieved....

the vet told me that if delay about 1 week should be fine....but of course not too long la....if not the jab won b effective anymore....

yes...i agree with you....we are exposed to risk anywhere and at anytime...so we can only take the necessary precaution and hope for the best..nothing much we can do...

yes...dats the pic of my poodle in the avatar...i took the pic when she was 2 mths old..now 3 mths old d.....getting fatter now..Wink

i understand how u feel....the feeling of emptiness when you don hv ur furkid to care for...i hv dat feeling too after i returned by first pup.....i felt as if there's nothing to motivate me to go home anymore...if u think u r ready, mayb u can try to start doing some research and find a new furkid for yourself.......

1st bad experience doesn't mean that we are no good parents at all....we all learn from mistakes and bad experiences....my pup really likes to bite thing...but last nite after her jab, she stops biting d...most prob bcoz of the jab....a bit tired...but still take her snacks each time i give her....hv to reward her a bit......pity her kena cucuk!!!Cool

nope...she doesn;t bark at nite....usually she'l know when it's bedtime and when i carry her to her bed inside the crate, she will just lie down quietly there....so far..she hasn't been making any noise at nite....even if she;s not sleepy and all of us have slept, she will just play by herself... (i noticed that coz i woke up at midnite to peek at her)..and when i wake up....she will quickly come near my side and lie down in a position that i could stroke her....very cute Smile

yeahlo.....sometimes she is so naughty that i could not stand it and scolded her or even once or twice i bit her.....(on her butt area) coz she cant stop biting and jumping on ppl....but after dat, she will sit still and look at me sadly......then my heartache d..and will sayang her back...hahahah....then after awhile, the cycle begins again.....sigh.......wonder when she will learn...

now i'm just hoping that she'l b fine after the jab.......Smile




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wibbly
Dog Kichi


Dec 20, 2006, 10:55 PM

Post #13 of 13 (1788 views)
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Re: [tuckfook] Coronavirus vs. Parvo (can the vet be the place the dog gets it?) [In reply to] Can't Post

I totally agree that we shouldnt buy puppies from pet shops, there are so many out there who are js concerned with making money, they dun care abt the dogs at all. From my personal experience, i saw my baby in the shop and fell in love with her instantly but when we brought her home, she was scratching like mad. When i call the pet shop, they js told me not to worry, it's normal for dogs to itch. Wat??!! I didn't believe that, so i took her to the vet and it was mange. I truly believe that if i had not bought her, the pet shop would not have brought her to the vet for treatment. I was js so shocked with their cavalier attitude. I suspect they were also not honest abt her age and my baby was separated too early from her mother. I'm are having serious aggression problems with her. I've been trying to overcome this problem for months! Am definitely going to get my nx dog from a breeder and even if i have to give the breeder money to feed the pup till it's really ready to be separated from its mother, i'll do it js to make sure that the pup will be healthy physically and mentally.

 
 




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