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german shepherd dog (GSD)





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daniel.woo
Novice

Jan 9, 2006, 8:23 PM

Post #1 of 42 (10433 views)
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german shepherd dog (GSD) Can't Post

Hi everyone;

I'm interested to adopt/rear a GSD pup when I move in to my new home in June 2006. Would appreciate if any GSD owners/experts who could enlighten me on the following questions which I have in mind.

1. What is the difference between a 'show line GSD' and a 'working line GSD'?

2. Between the two types which makes a better pet & take on inherited quality as a guard dog?

3. How do I distinguish between a breeder who produces good litter of GSD for dog lover and a commercial breeder who breeds for pure profit. I'm worry about in breeding.

4. Is it better to have a pup from an imported parent or is it equally good to have it from a local parent who comes from imported breed?

5. How much it cost to have a good temperament GSD pup?

6. Any recommendation of a good GSD breeder in the Klang Valley (i.e. KL or PJ areas)?

Thank you for your time and advice;

Cheers;

Daniel Woo


JoeSmith
K9 Maniac


Jan 9, 2006, 9:38 PM

Post #2 of 42 (10419 views)
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Re: [daniel.woo] german shepherd dog (GSD) [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow, hope you will have the time and stamina to handle a GSD.

1) show dogs are emphasized on looks (parents probably won title in dog shows) whereas working dogs are probably from winners in working trials.

2) Unless you intent to show your dog or join the competition in working trials, it does not make any difference. However, the working line dogs are likely more active dogs.

3) Look at his dogs and you can see if happy, healthy & confident or somewhat skinny, sickly looking & timid. Check the pedigree documents to see how many litters the female dog had, at what age and in which interval.

4) Depends entirely on your desire to show, to compete in trials, your budget and not to forget to problems related to check on overseas breeders as stated above in point #3.

5) Depends on his lineage but locally around Rm 1800 and imported 3 times this amount.

6) Nope, I canít recommend anyone, but it does not mean that there are none.


chrisong
Doggyman

Jan 9, 2006, 10:00 PM

Post #3 of 42 (10407 views)
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Re: [JoeSmith] german shepherd dog (GSD) [In reply to] Can't Post

3.) Check the pedigree documents to see how many litters the female dog had, at what age and in which interval.

To check on the above information you need to call up the respective kennel organization that are issuing the pedigree document for that particular breeder.


(This post was edited by chrisong on Jan 9, 2006, 10:05 PM)


daniel.woo
Novice

Jan 9, 2006, 10:00 PM

Post #4 of 42 (10404 views)
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Re: [JoeSmith] german shepherd dog (GSD) [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you for your prompt response & advice. I do not intend to enter any competition, what I require is a good GSD as a pet and a guard dog. Based on your advice, it does not matter whether the dog is a show line or working line dog, as long as it comes from a good linkage line and if that is correct, I will look out for one that possesses the quality of a good GSD breed.

I look forward to your additional advice on the subject of GSD.

Cheers;


JoeSmith
K9 Maniac


Jan 9, 2006, 10:19 PM

Post #5 of 42 (10398 views)
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Re: [chrisong] german shepherd dog (GSD) [In reply to] Can't Post

Correct. Much info is available online and actually it should read check out the parents, especially the bitch, then check all the info (wherever you can get them) about the kennel and you know what you are getting when taking a puppy from them.


JoeSmith
K9 Maniac


Jan 9, 2006, 10:36 PM

Post #6 of 42 (10395 views)
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Re: [daniel.woo] german shepherd dog (GSD) [In reply to] Can't Post

Does it have to be a GSD? Just to have a good guard dog and lovely pet does not need a pedigree GSD. Furthermore, GSD are highly intelligent and very active. It needs some experience in handling this breed correctly. To ensure that this dog is trustworthy you have to socialize and train it from early age and you have to exercise it (and this breed needs lots of it). If you fail to do that and the dog is bored or neglected, it might turn into a nuisance or liability. Not that I want to talk you out of it, but just to consider carefully before you are getting one. If you would consider other breeds as well, but do not know which breed would be suitable for you then take the test at dog breed info .


daniel.woo
Novice

Jan 9, 2006, 11:08 PM

Post #7 of 42 (10385 views)
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Re: [JoeSmith] german shepherd dog (GSD) [In reply to] Can't Post

It is not necessary to have a pedigree GSD as a pet. It is just a personal preference for GSD because of their inherited traits & intelligence. If there are equally good breed, I also willing look into and if you have any recommendation, I'm most happy to hear from you.

In the meantime, I'm prepared to do the following in the event, I adopt a GSD as a pet

I intend to sign up with MKA;

Enrol my pup for obedience and training classes;

Prepare to spend quality time with the dog and walk the dog daily;

Hopefully to network with fellow GSD owners to share information & learn from each other.;

Read up on articles & books on GSD;

I hope the above steps will allow me to be good owner to GSD. By the way, where do I log on to take test on dog breed information?



Cheers;


JoeSmith
K9 Maniac


Jan 9, 2006, 11:53 PM

Post #8 of 42 (10375 views)
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Re: [daniel.woo] german shepherd dog (GSD) [In reply to] Can't Post

Last question first: dogbreedinfo dot c o m is a good place to start with (make the dot instead of writing it and without the spaces between and you will reach this website without any problem). They have not only pictures and breed info but also a questionnaire cum test, which will recommend breed according to your answers/preferences. Have fun doing it. What you are willing to do with and for your dog sounds fantastic and I am sure that you will be a very good and responsible dog owner. In my very personal opinion, the dog should share the life of the family; means he should share all family activities and not left alone outside.


(This post was edited by JoeSmith on Jan 9, 2006, 11:54 PM)


RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Jan 10, 2006, 6:27 AM

Post #9 of 42 (10349 views)
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Re: [daniel.woo] german shepherd dog (GSD) [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello,Smile

1) Joe is right. Show lines are bred to look good whilst working lines are bred for working.

2) I do however have to disagree here. I have seen/train with both types. Working line GSD's are much better guard dogs. They are not necessarily more active than showline GSD's. That's based on the individual dog. IMHO, working line dogs make better pets because of their stability.They may or may not be working trial winners. Some are just working service dogs ie. security dogs,SAR,etc.

3) One of the ways is to check the pedigree.However,I wouldnt be surprised if a breeder who is into pure profit shows u a different pedigree. Talk to the breeder & ask questions. A breeder who just wants profit will just talk u into buying the pup. I have a friend who currenly have a litter of GSD's.I am not sure if they will be your cup of tea though.

4) Doesn't really matter..sometimes just because it's imported doesnt mean he's good.As long as their healthy & have good temperaments.

5) On average a working line GSD cost abt 3k..maybe higher or lower depending on bloodline..a showline gsd can cost just as much but u'd b paying for looks.

6) As mentioned I do have a friend who has a litter of GSD's. Am not sure if they are suitable though....
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)



daniel.woo
Novice

Jan 11, 2006, 6:12 PM

Post #10 of 42 (10305 views)
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Re: [RealityDreamer] german shepherd dog (GSD) [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Reality Dreamer;

I appreciate the advice from Joe & yourself. Based on what I have heard & read, I most likely will go for a working line GSD, if it makes a good pet & a better guard dog.

I understand there is an expatriate in Malaysia who breeds GSDs for sale. According to the information, he trains police dogs on an ad-hoc basis and imports GSDs from Germany for breeding. He either sells imported pups (i.e. pregnanted while in Germany) or local pups from imported parents. I just wander whether you have heard about this guy and know his credentials.

I will be moving to my new home sometimes in June or July 2006. I don't know whether your friend's litter will be too big by that time. Nevertheless, if your friend (is he is a breeder?) is willing to share his knowledge and allow me to view his pups notwithstanding that I'm not ready to have one now, I'm most grateful for that.

I can be contacted at either at my email daniel.woo@my.ey.com or my cellphone: 019-2353168.

Cheers;


RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Jan 11, 2006, 6:34 PM

Post #11 of 42 (10293 views)
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Re: [daniel.woo] german shepherd dog (GSD) [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Daniel,

Think I know who you're talking abt Wink

There are quite a number of ppl breeding working GSD's these days.
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)



JoeSmith
K9 Maniac


Jan 11, 2006, 8:50 PM

Post #12 of 42 (10274 views)
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Re: [RealityDreamer] german shepherd dog (GSD) [In reply to] Can't Post

I have spoken to the president of the GSD club of Germany and he agreed to most of your points. Sorry, I am not a GSD specialist and could not see any difference when observing the dogs when most GSD in show have a SchH3 title as well. I just felt that the dogs in herding trials showed a higher activity level but probably it was just the trialís action level. Personally, I would prefer to get my puppy from Germany, but import regulations and airfare is killing.


RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Jan 12, 2006, 5:30 AM

Post #13 of 42 (10251 views)
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Re: [JoeSmith] german shepherd dog (GSD) [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Joe,

I hope I didn't sound like I was looking for an argument Blush My apologies if I did.

The show GSDs have their SchH 3 titles but most are just scoring enough to gain the title.If u look into it further,once a show dog acquires his SchH/VPG 3 title,he does not compete in SchH/VPG trials anymore(very few do again).Where as most working dog's compete actively in these working trials.

You are however right. What u see is as the height of the trials. Besides that,those are sports dogs. Bred for high energy,drive,nerves & etc so that they can compete. When I mean "based on the individual dog",there are some pups which do not have the drive to compete in these trials but still have the nerve to work.Working protection dogs do not have such an emphasis on drive so they can be less active & are a little easier on the hands.

lol...That is very true. Most of the time..the airfare is more than the pup itself ! Pirate
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)



KENDZ
Novice

Jan 12, 2006, 8:29 PM

Post #14 of 42 (10233 views)
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Re: [daniel.woo] german shepherd dog (GSD) [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi All,

Just thought of putting my two cents worth on this. I own a showline GSD. Reality Dreamer correctly pointed out that there differences in both show and workinglines. Generally, its looks and temperament. But every individual dog is different. True that most show GSDs are worked long enough to get SCH/VPG certification and are then stopped from working trials. Few reasons for this.

1) You cannot go head to head in working trials with a working line GSD. They are breed specifically for this. High drives, hardness, etc. Not everyone can handle a highly active dog. You need to look at yourself if you are suitable.

2) Most showlines in Germany stop once they get the certification. Reason: They cannot afford to have anything happen to the dog! Broken teeth, etc. This will severely affect the dog's show career. Not to mention the worth of the dog. A showdog in last year's Siegershow was withdrawn because it could never get the highest placing. It had a broken tooth. And it was noted that he has one of the best attacks for showlines. Show dogs cost a lot.

In my personal experience, the correct show dog can be a good guard dog. Depends what your definition of 'guard' is. Bear in mind, you would still need to train a working line dog. A good guard dog needs to be trained. It isn't just born.

My advice, irregardless of working or showline:

1) Look at the pedigree (very important)
2) Evaluate its temperement

What line you get is ultimately your own choice.
Kendz
GSDs Rule!


daniel.woo
Novice

Jan 12, 2006, 8:56 PM

Post #15 of 42 (10228 views)
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Re: [KENDZ] german shepherd dog (GSD) [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Kendz;

Thanks for your valuable input. It seems that showline if it possesses a good temperament & is well trained can also be used as a guard dog. Well my definition of 'guard' means when strangers encroach upon the property or a family member is put in a defensive position or being attached, the dog will come into action. I need a dog who is controllable and only reacts when he senses that something is not right and well-behaved at other times. Hope it is not a tall order.

By the way, how much does a showline dog costs? if you know any good breeders, do let me know. My contact details are shown in the discussions above

cheers;


KENDZ
Novice

Jan 12, 2006, 10:04 PM

Post #16 of 42 (10219 views)
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Re: [daniel.woo] german shepherd dog (GSD) [In reply to] Can't Post

Daniel,

Your definition of a guard dog indicates that the dog needs to be trained to guard! Most dogs would bark if someone approaches their homes. How they would react is unpredictable, unless you train them to react in a certain way. Correct me if I am wrong, but even a Schutzhund/VPG dog needs to be retrained to be an effective guard dog. There is a difference between guard dog and sport dog.

I do not know of any showline litters currently available. Message me if you want to know more about showlines.
Kendz
GSDs Rule!


daniel.woo
Novice

Jan 12, 2006, 10:18 PM

Post #17 of 42 (10216 views)
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Re: [KENDZ] german shepherd dog (GSD) [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Kendz;

You are right that whether the dog is a show line or working line needs to be trained to be an effective guard dog. I don't intend to own a sport dog for competition purposes but as mentioned to have one as a good pet & be a good guard dog.

I only be in a position to have a dog when I move in to my new home in June or July 2006, hence, there is no urgency at this moment. Yes, I like to know more about showline pedigree and thus are more than happy if you could share with me.

Cheers;


KENDZ
Novice

Jan 12, 2006, 10:24 PM

Post #18 of 42 (10214 views)
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Re: [daniel.woo] german shepherd dog (GSD) [In reply to] Can't Post

Daniel,

you can contact me with your questions at kulken28@yahoo.com.

Thanks.
Kendz
GSDs Rule!


PSY
K9 Kaki


Jan 13, 2006, 5:13 AM

Post #19 of 42 (10192 views)
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Re: [daniel.woo] german shepherd dog (GSD) [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi daneil,

Been reading your postings and just like to point out to you, what you have describe is more of a watch dog than a guard dog. Again, KENDZ has a made a good point about all dogs will bark when strangers come to the door and in terms of controlling, it all depends on the owner. A comformaty dog will be much easier to control whereby a working dog will be a liitle difficult. I think realitydreamer will agree with me on this point. For my pennies worth, you should really meet up with breeders first and let them advise you on which is best for you and also pop by to dog training centres and talk to some trainers and they can give you a second opinion, then you can decide.


daniel.woo
Novice

Jan 13, 2006, 6:44 PM

Post #20 of 42 (10184 views)
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Re: [PSY] german shepherd dog (GSD) [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi PSY;

I'm glad to hear from you. Since I have time, I will definitely to do what you have suggested. If I ask breeder about their dogs' blood lines, will they allow me to take notes or make photocopy of their pedigree certificates for verification or they will bluntly tell me off ? They may say, we are in the business for over 10 years and we are here to stay and it is detrimental to our reputation to sell a pup of inferior quality or stuffs like that.

By the way, would appreciate if you could let me know where are the places in KL/PJ where trainers go about their doing their training so that I can drop by to watch and listen to them.

Cheers;


JoeSmith
K9 Maniac


Jan 13, 2006, 7:16 PM

Post #21 of 42 (10181 views)
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Re: [RealityDreamer] german shepherd dog (GSD) [In reply to] Can't Post

Very much the opposite. I did not feel anything wrong with your valuable input. I just tried to get someone I know to explain to me and I could not think of anyone better suitable for it then the president of the GSD club. Surely, all those competition dogs are like athletes and not representing the standard pooch. What worries me about the GSD in Malaysia is the common belief that those dogs could be good protectors of the family (in full automatic mode self-trained, of course).

Hey friend, no lol when checking the airfare, more likely to FrownFrown


KENDZ
Novice

Jan 13, 2006, 7:54 PM

Post #22 of 42 (10172 views)
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Re: [daniel.woo] german shepherd dog (GSD) [In reply to] Can't Post

An honest and serious breeder should be willing to spend time to guide you and explain to you what you are purchasing. At the very least you should be able to take notes. Not too sure how pet shops would react though. Personally I would ask questions lor.
Kendz
GSDs Rule!


KENDZ
Novice

Jan 13, 2006, 7:56 PM

Post #23 of 42 (10171 views)
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Re: [JoeSmith] german shepherd dog (GSD) [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Joe,

When you mean the president of the GSD club of Germany, you mean the SV?
Kendz
GSDs Rule!


JoeSmith
K9 Maniac


Jan 13, 2006, 9:52 PM

Post #24 of 42 (10155 views)
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Re: [KENDZ] german shepherd dog (GSD) [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, that's correct.


KENDZ
Novice

Jan 13, 2006, 10:21 PM

Post #25 of 42 (10150 views)
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Re: [JoeSmith] german shepherd dog (GSD) [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow man...you've got serious connections! And you don't keep GSDs?
Kendz
GSDs Rule!

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