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Home: Dog Sports, Schutzhund, Protection, Tracking,.....: Schutzhund Events, Trials (Local and Wordwide):
CGC & BH







K9mon
Novice

Nov 1, 2005, 4:11 AM

Post #1 of 16 (17137 views)
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CGC & BH Can't Post

Hi guys/gals,

Do you guys/gals agree with me that Malaysia is moving in a slow motion in terms of titling our precious working line dogs?

I'm thinking, if our good kennel club could start something like BH instead of CGC.

I have personally attended CGC classes and all I have learned was how to choke the dog, picking up shit, and standing stupidly under the hot sun.

Comments please.

Good or bad just bring it.


leecy
Ultra ALPHA


Nov 1, 2005, 9:17 AM

Post #2 of 16 (17125 views)
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Re: [K9mon] CGC & BH [In reply to] Can't Post

K9mon

"titling" "BH" "CGC" means






Regards,

Yang


K9mon
Novice

Nov 2, 2005, 7:19 AM

Post #3 of 16 (17114 views)
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Re: [leecy] CGC & BH [In reply to] Can't Post

CGC = K9 Good Citizen (organized by our Anjing club)

Btw can someone help me out on BH stand for?

All I know is BH = Prerequisite for Sch1

What I meant in my earlier post was getting a BH is like getting a passport to proceed further to Sch1, Sch 2, and Sch3 but CGC is just a certificate that recognize by dunno who.


RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Nov 2, 2005, 9:38 AM

Post #4 of 16 (17108 views)
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Re: [K9mon] CGC & BH [In reply to] Can't Post

BH-Begleithunde

Companion DOg & Traffic Sureness test Smile
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)



boon
Doggyman


Nov 2, 2005, 7:26 PM

Post #5 of 16 (17097 views)
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Re: [RealityDreamer] CGC & BH [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Chloe,

Sie sind schnell

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


PSY
K9 Kaki


Nov 3, 2005, 3:25 AM

Post #6 of 16 (17072 views)
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Re: [K9mon] CGC & BH [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi K9mon,

Just like to find out who is training you and your dog for this sport? As you are well aware, if you are not, the problem some owners are facing with dogs, you know, the "so cute" syndrome and the "so powerful one" must have one and later finds out they cannot handle the dog scenario, well how do one expect M.K.A. to sanction this form of sport. Secondly, they do not have the qualified trainers to do it. The people I know that have experience in this departments are from overseas do not think it will fit into our community as pets and schutzhund trained dogs are just different and besides the so call CGC trained dogs are never encourage by their owners to behave accordingly in public anyway so all in all it is a lost course. You mentioned you have been tru it, the CGC course, have you participate in the OB competion all the way to the open class? If more people can do that maybe the community can accept this form of sports.


RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Nov 3, 2005, 8:42 AM

Post #7 of 16 (17061 views)
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Re: [PSY] CGC & BH [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Yap,

Just thought I'd mention that SchH is sanctioned by MKA.If not we wouldn't be training on their grounds.

Hmm..the ppl I talk to in the sport (some police officers,breeders,competitors & fans) hv different opinions. Some sport dogs can live indoors. In fact I have heard of quite a number of national & international competition dogs who live indoors as pets. Where as some can't.

As for qualified trainers...well,we got an international competitor & a few others who are capable of competing in the world championships who we train with. Not sure if that's "qualified" enough.

JMHO,I think those who actually go through the trouble to get the CGC,do care abt their dogs' manners.Smile
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)



FredAl
Novice

Nov 3, 2005, 5:17 PM

Post #8 of 16 (17050 views)
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Re: [PSY] CGC & BH [In reply to] Can't Post

Schutzhund, if done properly, is the ultimate breed suitability test for a working dog. A SchH-titled dog is a reliable, trustworthy family companion that can live indoors or outdoors and is safe around other people.

BH is an excellent test of the dog's obedience, temperament and socialization. A BH title is a prerequisite to SchH to ensure that the dog has the proper traits and training, and that the handler has control of the dog before it is trained and titled for the sport.

Here's a link to the BH test rules (pdf file) from DVG America:

http://www.dvgamerica.com/04BHRules.pdf
____________________________________
Beauty without vanity, strength without insolence, courage without ferocity, and all the virtues of man without his vices.


leecy
Ultra ALPHA


Nov 3, 2005, 7:57 PM

Post #9 of 16 (17047 views)
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Re: [K9mon] CGC & BH [In reply to] Can't Post

K9mon

thanks for replying. im very new in this field so hope to learn more. sometimes all the words really a "stranger" for me.. Unsure






Regards,

Yang


PSY
K9 Kaki


Nov 3, 2005, 10:44 PM

Post #10 of 16 (17039 views)
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Re: [FredAl] CGC & BH [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi FredAl,

Thanks for your reply, however I am not questioning the BH aspect so much as the subsequent training. Yes, some dogs can be good pets too but what if the handler is not at home when whatever may happen, as it is not all members of the family can handle an ordinary dog, who and what can gaurantee that a schutzhund dog can be controlled by other members of the family. Just voicing my concern on dogs that may leap a gate when teased or go for some idiot who happen to be wearing a long sleeve shirt and tease the dog, well he may deserve it but the authority do not actually care about that. Just like the Rottie case we had earlier, whereby one can find 10 people that says Rotties are "uncontrolable" but one alsocan find 11 that says "no such thing" but the breed is still banned. Just feel sorry for Rottie owners.


FredAl
Novice

Nov 4, 2005, 3:42 AM

Post #11 of 16 (17030 views)
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Re: [PSY] CGC & BH [In reply to] Can't Post

Sounds like you have the wrong impression of SchH. A dog trained in SchH is a lot better pet than a regular family dog. In the protection phase of SchH, the dog is not trained to bite (all dogs instinctively know how to bite); it is trained when and how to bite, and most especially, it is trained to release its bite. A SchH dog is a reliable, trustworthy family companion that can be handled and controlled by any adult in the family. It is not a one-man dog. It is not an aggressive dog. It is not an attack dog.
____________________________________
Beauty without vanity, strength without insolence, courage without ferocity, and all the virtues of man without his vices.


K9mon
Novice

Nov 4, 2005, 5:57 AM

Post #12 of 16 (17016 views)
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Re: [PSY] CGC & BH [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Psy,

To be honest, there is no such Sch trainer in where I live. I believe most of the people in this forum including myself is self train (i.e. by reading books, and getting pieces of information here and there from this forum and other internet materials, and videos). However if you live up North in Perlis you can get the Grand Master Michael Lee to teach you. If you live down South you can get Peter Kong to teach you.

Rumors have told me that Peter Kong is learning from Michael and Michael's teacher is a German guy who is now in Klang Valley (I've yet to meet him).

I'm not sure if SCH is sanctioned by MKA, but Chloe has confirmed this.

About the behaviour of Sch dogs living with a family, I believe Fred Al has explain most of it and I truely agree with what he said.

However, Chloe's research with some police officers,breeders,competitors & fans have different conclusion. I never really own a sport dog or a police service dog but I don't see much of a problem because my dog is training using the SCH methods. My dog is totally ok with my family members, all of them can handle him except that he is exceptionally happy when I handle him. Then again I would like to qualify that I'm only doing obedience part of SCH and not the tracking and the protection.

In reply to your question about me participating in the OB competion all the way to the open class. Well, I've told you before that I don't even agree with the CGC's compulsion training in teaching a dog new tricks. So my answer is NO I haven't compete but yes I've seen their competition which I think is very stressful to the dog. I personally don't think my dog will enjoy it and I won't force my dog to do it just to win a few packs of cheap dog food.

Btw can someone here comfirm if the CGC/Advance OB competition add anything (e.g. an obedience title) to your dog's certificate?

If you have seen a SCH obedience you will know what I mean. Its totally a different standard. The Sch dogs have demonstrated the joy to work for their handler. This is what I've been trying to achieve.

I hope I've answered to all your queries.

Thanks.


PSY
K9 Kaki


Nov 4, 2005, 7:28 AM

Post #13 of 16 (17004 views)
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Re: [K9mon] CGC & BH [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi, thanks for your reply.


PSY
K9 Kaki


Nov 4, 2005, 7:30 AM

Post #14 of 16 (17004 views)
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Re: [FredAl] CGC & BH [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks FredAl,

I must been reading the wrong tabloids and coming to a wrong conclusion.


FredAl
Novice

Nov 4, 2005, 6:21 PM

Post #15 of 16 (16989 views)
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Re: [K9mon] CGC & BH [In reply to] Can't Post

"Rumors have told me that Peter Kong is learning from Michael and Michael's teacher is a German guy who is now in Klang Valley (I've yet to meet him)."

Michael learned from a lot of internationally renowned SchH competitors and trainers in Europe. He does not limit his learning from just one guy. Jurgen is one guy he trained with in Malaysia and Thailand. I've also worked with him in training his dogs, and the dogs of SV Thailand members.

"However, Chloe's research with some police officers,breeders,competitors & fans have different conclusion."

Schutzhund (literally translated as 'protection dog'), can be quite misleading for those who haven't participated in the sport, or for those who don't really know anything about it. This is one reason they changed the name to VPG (Vielzeitigskeitspruefung fuer Gebrauchshunde). The translation is: Versatility Test for Utility (or Working) Dogs.

In the early 80s of SchH in the States, I couldn't acquire a Rottweiler puppy from reputable AKC breeders when I inform them that I would be training the puppy for SchH. They had the same impression that I would be training their dog as an attack dog, and I would be using harsh methods to do so. They would not even listen to me when I try to explain what SchH is really about.

Since I was one of the first in our area to train Rottweilers for SchH, I was always invited to do demos of the SchH protection phase during some Rottweiler specialty open shows. It was in one of these demos that my Rottweiler showed them the proper temperament of a well-bred, well-trained SchH Rottweiler. Many of the breeders who turned me down saw my Rottweiler's reliability and excellent temperament. After realizing their wrong impression of the sport, some apologized for their past rude actions toward me, and offered to sell me their puppy.

By then, I knew that dogs bred mainly for the show ring cannot be good SchH prospects. I politely turned their offers down.
____________________________________
Beauty without vanity, strength without insolence, courage without ferocity, and all the virtues of man without his vices.


leecy
Ultra ALPHA


Nov 5, 2005, 12:24 AM

Post #16 of 16 (16973 views)
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Re: [K9mon] CGC & BH [In reply to] Can't Post

FrownK9mon

I got a question in mind. for dog training such as schutzhund, i wonder those who participate what are they strive for? besides their own satisfaction, are there any major competition? bcs in malaysia I only can see those MKA purebreeds see which one meet the standard, there are obedient competition too but seems not that "hot". Or maybe i am not aware? Does those great trainers get titles like those champion MKA dogs? Frown

Frown




Regards,

Yang

 
 




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