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GSD Expert HELP!!!





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Villain
Novice

Apr 17, 2003, 5:47 AM

Post #1 of 50 (4621 views)
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GSD Expert HELP!!! Can't Post
Recently my GSD is having some problem Frown. She is limping. I do not know whether is HD as the vet say too young to knowShocked. Then she is not totally not using the right back leg just not stepping it down 100%. Any advice or is just usual growing up problem??Unimpressed
Pls help if u are or have experienced this type of problem.Smile


cdmoo
ALPHA


Apr 18, 2003, 5:49 AM

Post #2 of 50 (4605 views)
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Re: [Villain] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to] Can't Post
hi Villain,
How old is ur pup?
Smile
regards,

CD Moo





Villain
Novice

Apr 18, 2003, 6:00 AM

Post #3 of 50 (4603 views)
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Re: [cdmoo] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to] Can't Post
she is around 4 to 5 months old


PSD
ALPHA


Oct 9, 2003, 6:26 AM

Post #4 of 50 (4567 views)
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Re: [Villain and All] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to] Can't Post
Quote
Recently my GSD is having some problem . She is limping. I do not know whether is HD as the vet say too young to know. Then she is not totally not using the right back leg just not stepping it down 100%. Any advice or is just usual growing up problem??
Pls help if u are or have experienced this type of problem.
Villian, I cannot understand how a vet could give you that kind of answer. Which ver dod you go to? Make sure never go again. The first sensible thing to do without further question is to have the dog x-rayed. That will tell exactly if it was HD. This has nothing to do with "too young for that". just to share an opinion.

Anyway, sad to see that our beloved GSD to be blamed due to backdoor breeding and weakening of genepools by banana backed show GSD's.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Oct 9, 2003, 8:36 AM

Post #5 of 50 (4564 views)
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Re: [Villain] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to] Can't Post
...


(This post was edited by surchinmy on Oct 9, 2003, 9:18 AM)


ritchie_dog
K9 Maniac


Oct 11, 2003, 5:08 AM

Post #6 of 50 (4540 views)
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Re: [Villain] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to] Can't Post
hi villain,

from your description i think the vet is not doing a very good job..they ought to have x rayed him to find out...GSD are very prone to HD and especially when they r young u have to take extra precaution..take him to another vet n find it out...it can be HD or she's just hurt herself when she jumped or slipped when the floor is vet..dont take it lightly...
Lots of love to my beloved Ritchieboy who has left us on Jan 11 2004..May god bless him


PSD
ALPHA


Oct 17, 2003, 12:09 AM

Post #7 of 50 (4529 views)
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Re: [ritchie_dog] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to] Can't Post
Dear Ritchi_dog,

To your statement on "GSD are very prone to HD" perhaps I should just clarify that showlines GSD's are very prone to HD. Never heard so much about working lines real GSD's getting HD more than any large breed dogs. Just to clarify this statement so that public can understand correctly.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


ritchie_dog
K9 Maniac


Oct 17, 2003, 7:39 AM

Post #8 of 50 (4521 views)
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Re: [PSD] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to] Can't Post
hi PSD,

well i guess all GSDs are prone to it whether its show line or working line..ive seen some fr working line tht has HD and it all depends on their upbringing and genetic pool..well thts just my point of view n GSDs owners really need to take good care of their doggy when they are young..it does affect in later stage..
Lots of love to my beloved Ritchieboy who has left us on Jan 11 2004..May god bless him


PSD
ALPHA


Oct 17, 2003, 6:27 PM

Post #9 of 50 (4518 views)
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Re: [ritchie_dog] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to] Can't Post
Dear ritchi_dog,

How many working lines GSD do you know?

What are the lines of Working GSD there are currently in Malaysia?

What is the genetic pool understanding you are talking about?

Of course I agree with you that owners with the best genetically sound puppy who does not know how to care for a large breed dog, overfeeding, obesed, too early jumping, slippery floor etc will pull the joints out of the socket of course.

But what you mentioned as a generalisation of all GSD as equal genetics pool is what I want to clarify. unless you can prove your theory correct here and not pluck the info from the air. Please don't do too much guessing work.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)

(This post was edited by PSD on Oct 17, 2003, 6:29 PM)


boon
Doggyman


Oct 17, 2003, 6:41 PM

Post #10 of 50 (4514 views)
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Re: [ritchie_dog] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
hi PSD,

well i guess all GSDs are prone to it whether its show line or working line..ive seen some fr working line tht has HD and it all depends on their upbringing and genetic pool..well thts just my point of view n GSDs owners really need to take good care of their doggy when they are young..it does affect in later stage..

Hi Ritchie_Dog,

ALL GSD are prone to HD ? NO i don't think so, those hip hop GSD in show ring that most of u see today are only lineages that prone to, but for a serious working line GSD, a pure working GSD is much agile and as versatile as other popular breeds today.

one simple thing i would like to think of :-

'Do u think is possible for the show GSD, the one with banana back to run 15km for training routine like SchH dog ?

Let me share this with u, they will just collapse and nothing else.

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


Kowpa
Member

Oct 17, 2003, 9:34 PM

Post #11 of 50 (4506 views)
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Re: [ritchie_dog] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To

well i guess all GSDs are prone to it whether its show line or working line..ive seen some fr working line tht has HD and it all depends on their upbringing and genetic pool..well thts just my point of view n GSDs owners really need to take good care of their doggy when they are young..it does affect in later stage..

If u have seen working line that has HD I think is from the rejected kennel without proper selecting remember to make process of reaching the top levels of schutzhund competition, selecting the dog is the most important.

Most people understand that u cannot buy just any horse and expect it to run in the Malaysian Turf club. Likewise, u cannot select just any dog and expect him to reach the top levels of schutzhund sport. The dog u select must have the proper drives, good nerves, sound health and a balanced mind. Not that simple as what u think tat all GSD have HD,they do have but they are from the reject shop! hehee


serene_kwlim
K9 Maniac


Oct 17, 2003, 11:33 PM

Post #12 of 50 (4498 views)
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Re: [PSD] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to] Can't Post
Dear PSD,

Me too, hv heard some ppl said tat GSDs r very easily to hv weak hind legs and HD problem. but i'm not totaly agree on this issue lorr.. but i hv a question here is actually how we(gsd owners) determine tat is our dog free from HD ? hope u can giv some advise here, thankz..Smile

regards,Blush
Serene Lim
My furkids: Jamie & Max.

Jamie's WebSite
GSD Owner? Pls add in!
Jamie's Dogster
Max's Dogster


PSD
ALPHA


Oct 18, 2003, 3:12 AM

Post #13 of 50 (4490 views)
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Re: [serene_kwlim] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to] Can't Post
Serene,

This is a million dollar question but I will try to answer you in a way that I myself use. BTW I dont claim to be a GSD expert as everyday I am still getting new discoveries that shock my senses quite a bit...lolTongue

Anyway here goes.

1) Look towards a pedigree and do your research on the 3 generations (not easy for normal petowners) I myself look till 5 generations and see how they produce. Check immediate parents and see how they produce in progeny sibblings.

2) HD is both genetics and petowners fault. Many people thinks that GSD is a large breed so they feed large portions of food to them too. They become too heavy and put too much pressures on the hips. Their body grows faster than the joints can sustain them.

3) Showlines unfortunately are series of inbreding to get the sloping croup as you see today. These structure puts alot pressure on the hips. Since showdogs are bread for the looks almost all of them are kennel dogs and gets little stress from all out excercise. Because of that there are HD potential dogs which because of non-stress routine remained non-HD IMO. These substandard stock will be bread again and producing weaker genetics that exhibit even poorer HD tolerance.

4) Why I'm defensive of working lines is because working lines are bread for a sole purpose of working or in sports. Those with weak hips simply cannot last the routine years after years. These stock are automaticly disqualified from breeding. Therefore you will find it very hard to get the 3 generation of working line having HD. To be truthful, HD is still not totally stamped out from the world of GSD even in working lines as it may still lay dormant genetically as a recesive gene but there is definately much much lower chance that you can see any HD in a working line.

Although I may not answer your questions perfectly, I hope you can understand what I'm trying to express here.

As an advice, Do a pre-lim Xray by 1YO and rate the hips. Then do another at 2 YO to ensure the Hips rating. This is if you intending to breed. Otherwise, no need to worry until and if the HD appears.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)

(This post was edited by PSD on Oct 18, 2003, 3:21 AM)


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Oct 18, 2003, 4:35 AM

Post #14 of 50 (4486 views)
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Re: [serene_kwlim,PSD] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi PSD & Serene,

Can't help noticing some of the post here, and just wanna add my 2cts worth,

Back to ur post abt ppl saying GSD get weak hind leg easily, well I can only say the main reason is b'coz of the extreme hind angulation very much bred into the showline genepool. Due to this extreme angulation the showline GSD appear to be trotting on its hock. Also due this extreme angulation, I believe that the connection of the hip joint & the pelvis bone is not at its ideal position thereby increasing the risk of HD.


I thk PSD is rite, the best possible way to avoid getting a dog wt futureHD problem is to study the litter's pedigree or bloodline, better still if it is a repeat litter, chk out the earlier litter.

One other way will be using the ZW no.which were introduced in recent years by SV. If both parents of the litter are recent import & registered wt SV, they should come wt their respective ZW no. or if U r importing a pup from oversea.

The ZW no. in this case refers to the potential of the dog in getting HD, with 100=neutral, wt lower ZW no. meaning lesser chance of getting HD & higher no. means higher chance of getting HD

For example if the Sire's ZW=78, Dam's ZW=100
then the litter's ZW=(78+100)/2 = 86

(as each dog ZW no. is dynamic so the no. could be a bit out-dated by then for imported dog in M'sia, but I guess it will not be much of a difference)


Therefore if U can choose, then try to choose the litters of both parents wt low ZW no. ! Tongue ...! !






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Oct 18, 2003, 9:57 AM

Post #15 of 50 (4477 views)
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Re: [Polluxx] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi ,

Sorry guys, I thk I made a calculation error in the above post,
"then the litter's ZW=(78+100)/2 = 86"

......then the litter ZW No. should be = 89 not 86
===================================


BTW just for info ZW stands for Zuchtwert which means "Breed Value Assesment".






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


serene_kwlim
K9 Maniac


Oct 18, 2003, 10:19 AM

Post #16 of 50 (4475 views)
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Re: [PSD,Polluxx] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to] Can't Post
Dear PSD & Polluxx,

thanks for clering my doubts,Smile highly appreciated! by the way, u did mention about look into their pedigree to do some reseach, but as for new GSD owners like meBlush really dun even know wut the pedigree stated means...Blush maybe either one of u can help me out on this..hehe..Blushsorry to disturb!

regards,Unimpressed
Serene Lim
My furkids: Jamie & Max.

Jamie's WebSite
GSD Owner? Pls add in!
Jamie's Dogster
Max's Dogster


(This post was edited by serene_kwlim on Oct 18, 2003, 10:21 AM)


PSD
ALPHA


Oct 20, 2003, 9:43 PM

Post #17 of 50 (4460 views)
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Re: [serene_kwlim] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to] Can't Post
Dear Serene,

Don't worry you are not disturbing. Your question are very sincere and with the intention of learning more. Therefore not to be faulted here.

Like I mentioned i my previous post, not many new petowners will be able to know all these. Guess you will have to be in the hobby more seriously and do more through research about your GSD and all its fore Sires and Dams to get all those informations. Otherwise, you could ask the breeder to tell you more about their dogs and perhaps their lines and previous generations. If the breeder does not know then you know they are millers so stay far away from them. I had experienced going to a petshop before I saw a show GSD about 2 years ago. I had tested this puppy and was happy with it's temprement, attitude and trainability. When I ask who were the parents, they say...arrr...arrr......very good one.....champion line.....all the normal craps if you know what I mean....heheheh!

Pedigree papers stated the parents and another 3 earlier generations of the dogs like a family tree. You just have to know those dogs whos name appears in the pedigree and know what they are and produce. It is like checking each and every biodata of the parents, grandparents, great grand parents individually......not something normal petowner have to will and resource to go into.

Really, let these be worried by breeders. Better if I teach you how to recognise a breeder than a miller. this would be more appropriate to help you. Once you know that kind of breeder then latch on to him and your knowledge hunger will go on overdrive when he guide you through the world of his dogs.Smile

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


serene_kwlim
K9 Maniac


Oct 21, 2003, 12:51 AM

Post #18 of 50 (4452 views)
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Re: [PSD] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to] Can't Post
Dear PSD,

Tq for ur replys.. Actually i bought my GSD from a pet shop, coz, tat time i'm very new in dogs so dunno anything about breederBlush.

I understand tat my dog's pedigree got lots of names and i hv do some research through the internet about the names stated in the pedigree, but i only get to search those names with SCHH titled & SZ number... as for other name which is local or without the SCHH tiles & SZ no. i could't find aldy.Unsure!

regards,Unimpressed
Serene Lim
My furkids: Jamie & Max.

Jamie's WebSite
GSD Owner? Pls add in!
Jamie's Dogster
Max's Dogster


PSD
ALPHA


Oct 21, 2003, 3:57 AM

Post #19 of 50 (4447 views)
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Re: [serene_kwlim] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to] Can't Post
Serene,

I guess that you have to collect your info from various sources to piece the pic together. The one with SZ number are affliated to WUSV and SV. The one without SZ nbr are FCI affiliations like MKA registrations. If this is the case then you have to do your homework to ask around for this local registered dog. That is of course you are really interested to get the infos.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


serene_kwlim
K9 Maniac


Oct 21, 2003, 9:05 AM

Post #20 of 50 (4437 views)
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Re: [PSD] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to] Can't Post
dear PSD,

oic.. haha.. susah lorr.. to get info from MKA! anyway thanks for the info..much appreciated!Smile

regards,Smile
Serene Lim
My furkids: Jamie & Max.

Jamie's WebSite
GSD Owner? Pls add in!
Jamie's Dogster
Max's Dogster


PSD
ALPHA


Oct 22, 2003, 12:14 AM

Post #21 of 50 (4428 views)
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Re: [serene_kwlim] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to] Can't Post
Serene,

I don't mean to get info from MKA....god I know how that must have felt....lol. Tongue

What I really meant is you should know about the parents and maybe even the previous parents and how they performed in show or in work. Then you will be more informed about the chances in your puppy. Well this is if you have been the rings or the sport for a longer time then you will know who is the progeny of who...did you catch me?

In your case if you are just starting out and already got your dog, then I can understand your frustrations in the lack of info's here. Especially so if the pups are from petshops whom most of the time does not keep any records.

Perhaps next time you would be better equipped to ask all those questions in your next pet. Better chances of getting answered in a good breeder's place than a petshop though. good luck with your search

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Oct 22, 2003, 3:56 AM

Post #22 of 50 (4420 views)
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Re: [serene_kwlim,PSD] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi,

I was thinking maybe it would be a good idea if Serene or others who is thinking to get a GSD in the future to post their desire litter's Sire/Dam (bloodline, SZ no. incl) on board for feedback/comments by other members on board. Wink


This way everybody can share info & buyers can at least have an idea how their prospective pup will turn out ! Cool






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


boon
Doggyman


Oct 22, 2003, 5:54 PM

Post #23 of 50 (4412 views)
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Re: [Polluxx] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi Polluxx,

good one.....in this way, some potential owner and the members in this forum can get to know more about GSD and their lineage hopefully.

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


mackmack
Doggyman


Oct 23, 2003, 5:45 PM

Post #24 of 50 (4398 views)
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Re: [Polluxx] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to] Can't Post
GSD always on my uncle's list of "potential breed to get". But he's worrying about whether the breed can get along well with kids/infants???
Last time keeping a black lab. He was great with kids and oldman, once my grandma fell down in the bathroom, the lab sensed it and barked for help!
so sad.... he died from dunno what reason.


--I have Howling Bean and Lazy Mack.--


PSD
ALPHA


Oct 23, 2003, 8:11 PM

Post #25 of 50 (4392 views)
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Re: [mackmack] GSD Expert HELP!!! [In reply to] Can't Post
Ying,

Hope this don't bore you. GSD is known to be excellent with kids. They are herding dogs meaning their instinct on taking care of kids is great. The key is socialising them well. You will benefit from chosing particularly from a strong tempremented puppy. Like all large breed dogs, supervision is very important when it comes to kids as to a dog they may play it a bit rough when they are not fully matured. Not to wronged them, as they don't know it is wrong in the first place. We must excercise our role to be the one to supervise and stop any undesirable behaviour from the begining.

I'm sorry to hear about your Grandma and the excellent black lab. If a dog is socialised well, this will create a strong bond of him to you and he will give his life for you in any occassion anytime.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)

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