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GSD Advice





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SeanYoung
Dog Kichi

Jun 15, 2005, 5:01 AM

Post #1 of 64 (14251 views)
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I have just went to see a 3 months old GSD. The owner wanted to sell for RM1,900. It looks very active and alert. Black & Tan. Can anyone advise what I should look for? Is this a reasonable price for a GSD.



Advice anyone?


boon
Doggyman


Jun 15, 2005, 6:15 PM

Post #2 of 64 (14231 views)
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Hi Sean,

First thing first...what do you want the GSD for ? companion ? family dog ? may be attend some OB training classes ? show ? or .....

3 months old pup for 1.9k seem a bit high to me....anyway...is hard to put a price tag on the pup to tell is the the right one or too high or too low. As long as the pup is healthy then this should be ok...

by the way who are/were the dogs behind this pup ? pedigree i mean....from which kennel.....better be careful than sorry....it simply mean....or a matter of fact....

HD/ED in GSD is just like a package...u need to be very careful in order to reduce the changes of getting into one....and the environment, amount of exercises for the pup.

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


SeanYoung
Dog Kichi

Jun 15, 2005, 6:30 PM

Post #3 of 64 (14227 views)
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Re: [boon] GSD Advice [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks Boon for replying.

He's a new vet in my town. Just back from UK. He said he got it from a famous millionaire in KL that breeds GSD only (can't remember his name) that always appear in dog shows. He chosen this pup personally. Parent's are imported. He wanted to sell at RM2,500 initially. I saw it and fell in love at first sight. I've never seen such a beautiful GSD before.

I saw the pup and it's an alpha type. Very alert and will investigate almost any dogs that come near and will bark when strangers approach. Very intelligent and behave like a child - understand what pleases the vet and know how to keep quiet when a "No" is mentioned. So obedient. I saw other GSD just keeping quiet when saw strangers even at about 5 months.

There's a few things I worried now if you could help advise:

1. Food - currently the vet gave the puppy rice mixed beef, green peas and carrots. He doesn't use pellets because he said the nutritions may overstress the development of the canine. He said pellets are good but too much nutrition may cause stress on joint and structures because the puppy is force to grow unnaturally. I don't have time to cook the food and the problem could be what if the dog doesn't want to eat pellets after switch hands in new environment?

2. Skin problems and sensitive stomach - i heard this is common in GSD and treatments are expensive.

3. Monthly maintenance costs - someone told me to set aside RM200 plus a month for maintaining such a large breed. I don't earn big income but I love GSD. Thinking of jabs, worm tables, skins issues, etc causes worry on my parents especially looking at high inflation now - petrol prices up, food and drinks all up...etc susah la.....can't survive d...

Any advise?


boon
Doggyman


Jun 15, 2005, 6:54 PM

Post #4 of 64 (14223 views)
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In Reply To
Thanks Boon for replying.

He's a new vet in my town. Just back from UK. He said he got it from a famous millionaire in KL that breeds GSD only (can't remember his name) that always appear in dog shows. He chosen this pup personally. Parent's are imported. He wanted to sell at RM2,500 initially. I saw it and fell in love at first sight. I've never seen such a beautiful GSD before.

I saw the pup and it's an alpha type. Very alert and will investigate almost any dogs that come near and will bark when strangers approach. Very intelligent and behave like a child - understand what pleases the vet and know how to keep quiet when a "No" is mentioned. So obedient. I saw other GSD just keeping quiet when saw strangers even at about 5 months.

There's a few things I worried now if you could help advise:

1. Food - currently the vet gave the puppy rice mixed beef, green peas and carrots. He doesn't use pellets because he said the nutritions may overstress the development of the canine. He said pellets are good but too much nutrition may cause stress on joint and structures because the puppy is force to grow unnaturally. I don't have time to cook the food and the problem could be what if the dog doesn't want to eat pellets after switch hands in new environment?

2. Skin problems and sensitive stomach - i heard this is common in GSD and treatments are expensive.

3. Monthly maintenance costs - someone told me to set aside RM200 plus a month for maintaining such a large breed. I don't earn big income but I love GSD. Thinking of jabs, worm tables, skins issues, etc causes worry on my parents especially looking at high inflation now - petrol prices up, food and drinks all up...etc susah la.....can't survive d...

Any advise?



I suppose is from Datuk Fonzi.......

1. in a way true...but a simple and quick change will actually solve your problem...feed for those brand that offer life stage formula...meaning 1 formula 1 series for puppy/adult/senior and etc etc...to name a few may be back to basic/ canida e/ eagle holistic...... or u can even feed the adult formula....don feed the puppy formula will eliminate your problem...

2. skin problem ? unless is from the back yard breeder that simple put the female and male together and wah...2 months later got a litter of 10...for a proper breeding (i suppose this pup is from?) u don have to worry about this....sensitive stomach ? this is a very subjective issue...if u always feed your dog pellets/kibbles and out of sudden u change to raw or something else that is totally new to them...of coz they will have some stomach upset and may be vomit/diarrhea.

3. i'm not sure how much u need to park aside for a GSD....but what u need is just the money for 15/18kg food and if u like some supplements and that is all. Jabs ? only the first 3 or 4 during puppyhood and that is all....the remaining for annual booster is not necessary for me personally. Even u go for the annual booster which most of the vets will tell u is the right thing to do...how much does taht cost u ? 30 ? 40 ? 50 ? per annum.

Deworm ? only during puppyhood u do it monthly...then after the 3rd jabs...is every 3 months...and per deworm tablet is from Rm 3 to RM 5 that is all (of coz 10kg ody weight per tablet) after the pup turn 6 months or older...i do it every half a year...when they turn 2....as and when necessary...and my pack are on raw....

Anyway...if to keep a dog is a burden to you now...may be you should think of it carefully and give it a miss this time and when you are more ready then only take one....

i always believe to keep a dog as hobby should not bring any finiancial burden to you. if it is a problem now...may be considering a smaller breed ? or like what old people keep telling me...'there are many more better dogs available out there...don rush for it.....keep your option open...'

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


SeanYoung
Dog Kichi

Jun 15, 2005, 10:50 PM

Post #5 of 64 (14206 views)
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Re: [boon] GSD Advice [In reply to] Can't Post

Boon,

You think it's high for the price? 3 months old, do you think it's difficult to train now? it's really an Alpha dog. wants to be a pack leader.

I was thinking of keeping it inside my house for a couple of months until it grows bigger. But I scared he urine everywhere when I'm sleeping. Any suggestion on how to toilet train?

I initially thought of keeping him on leash in a toilet. After a few days, I think he will know that's the place to urine and do business. Any idea?

Can i give cooked food to the dog? Will it affect their structure & health?

Quite a lot of GSD owners telling me that they feed rice...??? not quite sure this is true.


boon
Doggyman


Jun 15, 2005, 11:12 PM

Post #6 of 64 (14203 views)
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In Reply To
Boon,

You think it's high for the price? 3 months old, do you think it's difficult to train now? it's really an Alpha dog. wants to be a pack leader.
It really depend on how u bring up the pup...and whether or not is hard to train is about the bonding between u and the dog and most important the focus work.
I was thinking of keeping it inside my house for a couple of months until it grows bigger. But I scared he urine everywhere when I'm sleeping. Any suggestion on how to toilet train? That is find, but do u have the proper crate/kennel to house the pup ? As of how u train the pup for house breaking do a simple search on the internet or even this forum...u should get wonderful idea of to train it.
I initially thought of keeping him on leash in a toilet. After a few days, I think he will know that's the place to urine and do business. Any idea? Thing simply doesn't work that way.....

Can i give cooked food to the dog? Will it affect their structure & health? Cooked or raw is depend on the source of the food, it must be fresh and clean...it will not do any harm to the structure and health if the food served with any artificial. Quality of the food is the key.....also since u plan to keep the pup indoor, and in the crate/kennel u should at least let him run free or play fetch or a casual walk with him/her daily in order to help the development of muscle and strength. No running indoor or any smooth solid surface if possible this will make you pup easty-westy.

Quite a lot of GSD owners telling me that they feed rice...??? not quite sure this is true. Is not cheap to feed them if u have more than one and for those BYB surely they find to feed time rice mixed with some leftover? meat ? dry food is way cheaper. For you may be once or twice a week will be fine if u tend to do so.....make sure is not table scrap ok.


Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


khoo262
Enthusiast


Jun 16, 2005, 1:29 AM

Post #7 of 64 (14190 views)
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I have a GSD and i tell you it's not cheap to have one. Food will be about RM300 each month. I am feeding Science Diet (puppy-large breed) in the morning and rice mixed with meat dust/carrot/brocolli/etc (not table scraps). RM1.9K sounds a bit steep to me. I got mine for RM1.3K. That also from a reputable GSD breeder. Always ask the breeder why they decide to breed male A with female B. If he can give you a good answer like (ohh...male A got good bone structure,temprement, etc,blah,blah)

if the breeder just mention certification,etc (aiyah don't worry, got cert from MKA,etc). you know he is not a good breeder. GSD are smart dogs. I did not even have to toilet train mine. Naturally he knows to go to the garden to pee/poo etc.
finally..... khoo262 has come back to puppy.com


SeanYoung
Dog Kichi

Jun 16, 2005, 6:20 AM

Post #8 of 64 (14177 views)
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RM300 / mth. Wow, even I don't eat this much. The vet told me it's not expensive to maintain one. Not sure how true. BUt RM300/mth sounds too much d.


KENDZ
Novice

Jun 16, 2005, 9:04 PM

Post #9 of 64 (14163 views)
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Hi Sean,

Depends what you want to feed your dog. Owner and dog's preference. I feed mine kibbles plus some supplements, ie. calcium, fish oil for coat, etc. Don't think I have ever touched RM300 per month with her, and she is 10+ months now. How much does a 15Kg bag of dog food cost? A super premium one? 160?

Perhaps you could share with us the sire and dam of the pup. Value of a dog is a subjective thing, depends on what you yourself percieve to be an accepatable price.

Kendz
Kendz
GSDs Rule!


SeanYoung
Dog Kichi

Jun 16, 2005, 10:14 PM

Post #10 of 64 (14155 views)
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Hi,

Thanks for your reply. Saw u got GSD too. How's he getting on? I don't know the dam & sire. Didn't see the cert. It's german blood line. I could not hear the guy properly... something that sound like "Grangles" but not sure.

He feeds the 3 months GSD rice, peas and beef. You think it's ok?

or it is just ok to feed science plan for large breed. twice a day?

the puppy very active and alert. can bark at stranger. It's alpha dog. keep pulling the leash and very strong. big legs.

how do we see HD? too young can see or not?


boon
Doggyman


Jun 16, 2005, 11:33 PM

Post #11 of 64 (14145 views)
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Quote
how do we see HD? too young can see or not?



if it is a severe one, at 4 months onward you should be able to notice it.....

and all GSD are german bloodline if u trace them back far enough. All from the SV number 1 dog. with the SZ1 registration number, Horand von Grafrath belongs to the man behind this great animal Max v Stephanitz.

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --

(This post was edited by boon on Jun 16, 2005, 11:41 PM)


SeanYoung
Dog Kichi

Jun 17, 2005, 12:36 AM

Post #12 of 64 (14136 views)
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Re: [boon] GSD Advice [In reply to] Can't Post

boon,

you must be very experience. Can share ?

I'm looking at a 3 months pup. I heard that we cannot simply take the dog for long walk and should not be on slippery floor where he can break his hip. So what should I do?

the vet normally uses choke to walk him. will this break his neck?

boon, any number that i can contact u?


boon
Doggyman


Jun 17, 2005, 1:42 AM

Post #13 of 64 (14127 views)
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Quote
I'm looking at a 3 months pup. I heard that we cannot simply take the dog for long walk and should not be on slippery floor where he can break his hip. So what should I do?



not to have a very hard exercise or long walk for gsd pup is generally right, for the slippery floor,most of the cases will only resulted the easty-westy front paws.....as if the floor is wet, the pup may fall down and will cause some injuries.....

the right thing to do is let him run free in your garden or playing some fetch...the pup know their ability best, if he is tired he will stop for a rest...the key here is don over do it and everything is moderate....

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --

(This post was edited by Admin on Jun 17, 2005, 4:08 AM)


SeanYoung
Dog Kichi

Jun 17, 2005, 8:57 AM

Post #14 of 64 (14100 views)
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Re: [boon] GSD Advice [In reply to] Can't Post

Boon,

I took back the dog already. Paid half price for it now and one month later the next half. Day time keep at the vet's place until night time, I take it back to my house. He's quite helpful. The price of the dog came with basic obedience, basic care training, vaccination is free as long as he is still live near my house. He showed me how to walk the dog. It was fantastic, but the moment he passed it to me, the dog misbehave a bit.... he showed me a tactic but making a small light jerk on the neck using a choke chain and saying no while making a u turn. it works but still need to train that fella.

Surprisingly, everyone who has owned a GSD before saw the 3 months dog could told me that they couldn't believe the dog was 3 months old. It looks more like 7 months old. I'm not sure how to measure it. According to the vet, this is a big bone dog and grow up to be a giant.

3 months already like the size of a 3/4 grown up labrador. How to verify the age of the pup?

Between, he eats his own feces. Any advise? Saying no while caught him is one thing. But during the day, nobody is at home to tell him no. If he do business, sure gone la and he will be cleaning the feces by eating it... how la? can let him wear pampers or not....?


SeanYoung
Dog Kichi

Jun 17, 2005, 9:11 AM

Post #15 of 64 (14100 views)
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Re: [boon] GSD Advice [In reply to] Can't Post

Boon,

I took back the dog already. Paid half price for it now and one month later the next half. Day time keep at the vet's place until night time, I take it back to my house. He's quite helpful. The price of the dog came with basic obedience, basic care training, vaccination is free as long as he is still live near my house. He showed me how to walk the dog. It was fantastic, but the moment he passed it to me, the dog misbehave a bit.... he showed me a tactic but making a small light jerk on the neck using a choke chain and saying no while making a u turn. it works but still need to train that fella.

Surprisingly, everyone who has owned a GSD before saw the 3 months dog could told me that they couldn't believe the dog was 3 months old. It looks more like 7 months old. I'm not sure how to measure it. According to the vet, this is a big bone dog and grow up to be a giant.

3 months already like the size of a 3/4 grown up labrador. How to verify the age of the pup?

Between, he eats his own feces. Any advise? Saying no while caught him is one thing. But during the day, nobody is at home to tell him no. If he do business, sure gone la and he will be cleaning the feces by eating it... how la? can let him wear pampers or not....?


khoo262
Enthusiast


Jun 17, 2005, 6:31 PM

Post #16 of 64 (14084 views)
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vets can tell the age of the puppy by looking at his teeth. RM300 is not much. Consider this...if you feed 15Kg premium dog food at RM160 per pack....say twice a day...my GSD can finish in 15-18 days. Believe me, I've kept records on these stats. Take into consideration that my GSD is 11 months. Maybe your one won't eat that much. However, it is advisable to feed puppies 3 times a day to ensure optimum growing. Other things include fish oil, vitamins, deworming (once every 3 months), jabs,milk,etc. Calculate & see. You pengsan man......i nearly pengsan also.
finally..... khoo262 has come back to puppy.com


SeanYoung
Dog Kichi

Jun 17, 2005, 6:42 PM

Post #17 of 64 (14080 views)
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The vet is grew up with GSDs and the father is also a retired top man in govt service that handle GSDs. They mentioned that twice a day is good enough. They gave cooked food and if got no time, give dry food. They use the premium breeder quality 20kg costs only RM60. The dog looks healthy to me. He said he gave pig skin as well. This will beautify the dog. Adding beef, carrot, peas. He told me that all jabs will be free-of-charge and any skin problems will be free-of-charge. He said he;'s not into selling puppies like other pet shops. He wants a good name and some recommendation later. He is really good with GSD. They obeyed his command. He doesn't believe in beating or giving dog food treats. Just verbal praise will do. I saw him commanding the dog to ignore the food on the floor and surprising the GSD listen to him. But when i say no, the GSD just wouldn't bother.

For time being, the GSD stay with him from morning until evening. Only in the evening, I'll take home to let him stay overnight with me to familiarise the place. This will be for about 2 to 3 weeks. he said he needed to teach the dog obedience first before he hands over to me totally. he lives near my house.

The only thing i concern are:

1. Will the GSD only obey him and treat him as master instead of me?

2. After 4 months old , can the GSD still be bond and still be trained?

3. GSD was said to be 3 months, but looks like 6 months to me. Is it the Nazi line oversize GSD?

Any advice?


KENDZ
Novice

Jun 17, 2005, 6:46 PM

Post #18 of 64 (14080 views)
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Hi Sean,

My GSD is a she.Wink She is getting on fine. We will see if she is ready enough for the Penang show. Still very young. On the pedigree, my advice is you have every right to see the pedigree. If the vet cannot produce the pedigree, ask him for the microchip number. He should be able to scan the pup for it, as almost every vet in the Klang valley has one. Use the number to check with MKA to find out about:

1) Pedigree name of dog

2) Registration number

3) Sire and Dam

4) Breeder

With the name of the sire and dam, some of us here would be able to tell whose dog it is and what kind of parents your pup has. About food, I think as I mentioned is subjective.

According to my vet, checking HD (if you want), is best done after a year old. Then you would be able to ascertain for sure. Thats why the pedigree is important. You would be able to look back at the ancestors to see their Hip scores. This would give you a gauge of the dog you have. Of course this is only applicable if the dog's parentage are German Imports. They have very strict breeding guidelines there.

Kendz
Kendz
GSDs Rule!


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Jun 17, 2005, 8:32 PM

Post #19 of 64 (14064 views)
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Re: [SeanYoung] GSD Advice [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Sean,

Hope U dun mind me coming into the discussion here.

Well first of all, I thk Kendz is rite, U r paying 1.9K for the pup . . . so at least ascertain tht dog is a pedigree dog by making sure all the paperwork is in order. Frown

As for the feeding, I thk ur vet is rite, sounds to me U got urself a GSD which is growing very fast at this age , so twice a day at this stage is just abt rite but U need to reduce the feeding to once a day when he is around 8 mths or older. DO NOT overfeed him at this stage, it is very easy for Obese pup to develop HD. IMO it is better to keep him fit & lean when he is young , it is never too late to build up his bulk later when he is older & his leg muscle is stronger.


Quote :
Will the GSD only obey him and treat him as master instead of me?

Don't worry abt it, when he come over & stay wt U for full time , he will naturally form the bond wt U provided U will continue to train & play wt him. Even after 4 months old.


Quote:
Is it the Nazi line oversize GSD?

Seriously I don't thk there was ever a Nazi line, even Hitler's dog, Blondi was out of the "Highline" (Showline) of the time. Frown

It is not uncommon to find some adult GSD which is as tall 66cm to 70cm (26" to 28"), but the thing to take note is the taller or bigger the dog, the less agile he will be and the chances for skeletal deformation during growth is relatively higher as compare to a normal size GSD. So a careful & control diet is important.


BTW CONGRATS ON YOUR NEW DOG Frown ! !

Cheers






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


khoo262
Enthusiast


Jun 17, 2005, 9:41 PM

Post #20 of 64 (14056 views)
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Re: [KENDZ] GSD Advice [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Sean,

MKA certs cannot be trusted nowadays. I'm sure you heard all the hoo-haa about the last president. false cert and all. even witness myself how a breeder got his dogs 'certified' even though one of the parents is not certified. My advise to you, look at the seller. Is he a genuine GSD lover or just breeding to sell?
finally..... khoo262 has come back to puppy.com


khoo262
Enthusiast


Jun 17, 2005, 9:45 PM

Post #21 of 64 (14055 views)
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Re: [SeanYoung] GSD Advice [In reply to] Can't Post

Pig Skin?? That's a new one. Any comment, guys/gals about this method? Maybe I should try.

You say the GSD look like 6 months old. How heavy is the dog? Should be around 25-30kg if he is 6 months old.
finally..... khoo262 has come back to puppy.com


khoo262
Enthusiast


Jun 17, 2005, 9:51 PM

Post #22 of 64 (14053 views)
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Re: [Polluxx] GSD Advice [In reply to] Can't Post

wish to share with all GSD lovers a very nice pic of a GSD pup. Nice, isn't he??
finally..... khoo262 has come back to puppy.com
Attachments: pup1.jpg (10.1 KB)


SeanYoung
Dog Kichi

Jun 17, 2005, 10:38 PM

Post #23 of 64 (14046 views)
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Re: [khoo262] GSD Advice [In reply to] Can't Post

how old? mine looks different.

Let me take a pic tonight and load it later.

3 months but looks like adult.


khoo262
Enthusiast


Jun 17, 2005, 11:19 PM

Post #24 of 64 (14034 views)
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Re: [SeanYoung] GSD Advice [In reply to] Can't Post

not sure. maybe 6 weeks. your one sure different. This pup's parents all 'champion breed'. my GSD when young also don't look so nice.
finally..... khoo262 has come back to puppy.com


SeanYoung
Dog Kichi

Jun 17, 2005, 11:29 PM

Post #25 of 64 (14028 views)
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Re: [khoo262] GSD Advice [In reply to] Can't Post

mine looks something like your picture on the profile. hugh right?

3 months already very good at barking at strangers. funny. my friends GSD barks only at about 7 months.

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