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Mange





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Khoobg
Webmaster


Jan 15, 2004, 8:21 PM

Post #226 of 341 (15159 views)
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Re: [cshellz] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Michelle,

I think it is definitely not the right time to give up Sparkle even if the mange is very serious at this stage. From my experience with PUG which is prone to mange, this illness that is normally cause by poor immune system in puppy stage and will normally go off after the puppy gain adulthood. Since Sparkle is still young and it is definitely too early to tell if mange is going to continue to affect him for the rest of his life.


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cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Jan 15, 2004, 9:57 PM

Post #227 of 341 (15156 views)
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Re: [serene_kwlim] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Serene,

Yeah, that was one of the problems we thought of when he had his first mange attack. So from that time onwards we clean the porch, his pee & poo area and his sleep area with disinfectant once every two days and we won't let him wander to those areas until it's completely dry.

Clorox sounds a little strong for me....and it's actually bleach right?

Thanks for your suggestion, appreciate it a lot. Sparkle's my baby I won't give up on him. Smile Was a little upset to see him that way last nite and I was unable to help ease his itchiness and discomfort that's all

thanks again Cool


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Jan 15, 2004, 10:16 PM

Post #228 of 341 (15154 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi SK

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I took him to the vet this morning...didn't get to see your post here yet Frown

The vet said about the same thing....dermo & mange. He gave sparkle 8 tablets of antibiotics and some cream for the ears plus some Vitamin B12.

We tried to work out the possiblities...shampoo, diet, sleeping areas, scratching, etc etc. But I've been careful to make sure that I didn't introduce anything new to him just in case it might trigger another attack.

The vet also suggested something new today. It could be that Sparkle's a growing kid and has some hormone inbalance, hence the sudden break out. Plus dogs are pack animals so sometimes with left alone they get lonely and depressed. He said we're not dogs so the companionship we provide is different form a companionship of another dog. And sometimes when we're all busy running around or when we leave him behind when we go out he feels left out. Some dogs let out their frustration by scratching or rubbing themselves against something hard. And every dog's needs are different. So, could be that Sparkle is just feeling really lonely and depressed.

That's getting all psychological about the whole thing but what he says makes some sense too. He is left alone when we go out. Frown

I am now toying with the idea of adopting another dog to keep him company. Maybe when his condition improves a bit. I was worried that his condition might spread to the other dog but the vet said if the other dog's immunity is high, it's unlikely that he can get mange from Sparkle.

What's your suggestion?

Meanwhile, if you have a good vet to recommend to me, could you please email me the details?

Thanks a lot SK!Smile


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Jan 15, 2004, 10:23 PM

Post #229 of 341 (15152 views)
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Re: [Khoobg] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Mr Khoo

Thanks! it was my dad's suggestion to check with the vet cause he didn't like seeing him suffer like that. But I won't be giving up on Sparkle. Easier said than done to put a pet to sleep FrownFrownFrown

I guess all I can do at this point of time is to treat whatever that comes and continue to give him all the good stuff like Nupro & Keepers Mix lor...

Anyway, just wondering, generally at what age does a puppy/dog start to build stronger immune system?

Thanks again for the advise. Smile


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Jan 15, 2004, 10:49 PM

Post #230 of 341 (15150 views)
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Re: [cshellz] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello ...

Dermo mange is (according to the experts) not infectious ... in that most (if not all) dogs have dermo mange mites anyways ... but as long as the immune system is strong, dermo mange does not become a problem ...

Your description of sudden pimple-like or pustule eruption suggests that it is not entirely dermo ... but possibly an allergy of some sort or some hormonal imbalance ... But with any dog that has previously suffered from a chronic case of dermo ... dermo is an opportunistic infection, anytime the dog's immune system is reduced - the silly dermo can reappear ...

Unless your vet is suggesting that depression or loneliness is causing hormonal imbalance, I don't quite understand how scratching or rubbing can cause pustules to erupt appear all over the body including inside the ears ... Anxious dogs usually suffer from more localised "hotspots" ...

I would still suggest ... (a) get a second opinion (will email you on this) ... (b) watch the diet, supplements & treatment you are giving - too much can be as bad as too little ...

I would try and get a handle on Sparkle's condition before introducing another dog ... the introduction of a new dog into an established household can be stressful at the best of times ...

Cheers Smile


(This post was edited by surchinmy on Jan 15, 2004, 10:58 PM)


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Jan 15, 2004, 10:56 PM

Post #231 of 341 (15149 views)
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Re: [cshellz] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

Basically ... as a dog gets older ... the immune system gets stronger in the sense that a good portion of the mammalian immune system is built up through exposure ... As our bodies get exposed to various conditions, our immune systems learns to handle such conditions better through experience and exposure ... Also, as our various glands and nodes mature, they go into full effectiveness and help us maintain good immune system ...

Which is the reason why many dog people find that as their dogs mature ... the issue of dermo mange reduces ... A dog reaches maturity from between 15 to 24months depending on the breed type & breeding ...

Cheers Smile


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Jan 19, 2004, 9:21 AM

Post #232 of 341 (15129 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi SK

thanks for your email...have replied it already Smile

Sparkle's ear pustules have all cleared up. His skin has stopped breaking out and his paws have stop shedding fur. Looks like now it's another round of waiting for his fur to grow back. It's funny how it just seem to stop in a few days!

I've cut out all forms of treats for him, switched to Hypoallergenic (spelling correct?) kibbles...still mixed with BARF, cut out all supplements including nupro and keepers mix for the time being and only giving the antibiotics and vitamin b12 the vet prescribed. A bit mindful of what the vet said too, my mum and I are spending extra time playing and just hanging out with Sparkle and it seems like just in these two days he's a lot happier. He's so attached to me now he follows me literally everywhere I go! Doesn't matter if he's sleeping, he'll get up if I get up to go somewhere. Amazing!! He used to be so lazy we could push him all the way to the kitchen and he'll still be sleeping! LaughLaugh

I was going to shelf the idea of getting a pup since it *might* not be such a good time to introduce a new family member at this time AND my mum has always been against us having a second dog. But as if it was fate, someone has approached us about adopting the last puppy in the litter and the person is seeking a good home for the puppy. Didn't think my mum would agree but she's the one who insisted that we bring the puppy home and get it vaccinated and all. I'm still scratching my head about that. So, we are most likely getting a new puppy. Smile Maybe now, I can push her for a 3rd puppy soon!! hehehe

You know it's funny...I've always wanted to buy a puppy...one that I see and I fall in love with and say "i wanna bring him home". But somehow, from dog #1 to the very likely dog #3 were all adopted. All adopted even before we saw them. And all came to us because they couldn't find homes to go to. We are only keeping our fingers crossed that the new fella joining us will not have any health problems like Sparkle. The only bad thing about adoption is, you kinda have to adopt everything that comes with the puppy...

Oh well...perhaps this would work out positively for everyone....esp Sparkle. We're going to be careful about introducing the new pup just in case Sparkle doesn't take it too well. Thinking of introducing them outside of our house first. Let them make friends first and then later take the pup home. I'm really excited!! I've never kept two dogs at the same time before...any suggestions on how to introduce them to each other?


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Jan 19, 2004, 8:38 PM

Post #233 of 341 (15122 views)
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Re: [cshellz] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi ...

The antiboitics are probably working well and clearing up the infection ... Smile ...

Only bringing the puppy back after introducing them outside Sparke's territory is a good idea ... The more time you let them have getting to know each other in neutral territory the better ...

Good luck on the new addition to the family ...

Cheers Smile ...

PS ... didn't receive your email


BaMaBaBe06
New User

Feb 24, 2004, 6:26 PM

Post #234 of 341 (15062 views)
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Re: [cshellz] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

I wanted to ask someone on here what is wrong with my puppy and me! My puppy developed this rash/bump thing on her stomach and under her arms. I never payed any attention to it until recently because I have developed small bumps on my skin that look like flea bites or little bumps exactly like hers..She dosent have fleas either and is 6 weeks old, can anyone tell me what this is?


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Feb 25, 2004, 12:35 AM

Post #235 of 341 (15055 views)
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Re: [BaMaBaBe06] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi, Smile

Little bumps could mean anything. I'd really suggest both you & pup make a visit to the doc & vet if this is a concern to you. It could be just coincidental


Ballistic
Member


Feb 25, 2004, 3:17 AM

Post #236 of 341 (15051 views)
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Re: [cshellz] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi there,

My GR also had a little mange problem for a while, he lost so much fur but now he's fine. I hope your doggies skin problem is gone for good, but if its not i can recommend u this vet which is pretty good with skin problems.

After 3 painful jabs it looks like the sickness has gone.. However there are small bumps on him which comes out after the jab and will subside in 4 days. Would anyone know what this happens? The bumps are super itchy; i know this coz the poor guy would scratch until it bleeds a little before he stops.


jrooster
New User

Mar 3, 2004, 3:29 PM

Post #237 of 341 (15035 views)
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Re: [Ballistic] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

Help! Just found this thread and need help. Our 3 month old French Bulldog has developed mange and the Vet is adamant it is a hereditary condition. We've begun all the treatments, prescribed by the Vet and will incorporate some of the homepathic solutions we've seen here (diet, exercise, sunshine,etc.) The Vet says the dog MUST be spayed and never bred, (we paid $400 extra for breeding papers and rights)

Now the questions. The Vet says there is no way the breeder does NOT know her pups have this condition. The breeder is adamant her other pups have never had this condition, however, she will not provide names or #'s for litter mates or other pups she has sold for us to corroborate her statements. Can the Vet be wrong?? (If it is genetic, the breeder owes us another pup, and she is a very nasty woman)

Also, if it is genetic, then why didn't the Pup display symptoms immediately??

If genetic, will it ever go away?

Will it be stress induced, much like Herpes (except it's mites) or just remain and progressively get worse??

We're really sick over this, she was our 14 yr old daughters xmas, not to mention the rediculous prices of these animals. Any comments would be appreciated.


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Mar 3, 2004, 7:54 PM

Post #238 of 341 (15030 views)
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Re: [jrooster] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello ...

The are several forms of mange ... and I think you and your vet are referring to "Dermodectic Mange" ...

Dermo Mange is caused by the "dermo mite" ... By and large, the dermo mite is present on ALL dogs and puppies ... However, in a healthy and strong dog, the dermo mites are controlled by the dog's natural immunity and resistance ... and there is no problem.

Dermo mites only become a problem when the dog/pup has low immunity or low resistence, then the dermo mites multiply, causing the symptoms that you see in a dog/pup diagnosed with dermodectic mange.

So, what we can say is that ... dogs/pups with low immunity or low resistance ... generally have a greater propensity to developing problematic dermo mange.

It is not so much that the dermo mange/mite is inherited or genetically passed (because almost all dogs/pups have some dermo mites) ...

I believe your vet is trying to say is that the factor of "low immunity or low resistence" may have been genetically passed to the pup from the sire/dam (probably due to careless or irresponsible breeding), thus making dermo infection an issue or problem for the pup ...

You posted: " ... The Vet says there is no way the breeder does NOT know her pups have this condition. The breeder is adamant her other pups have never had this condition, however, she will not provide names or #'s for litter mates or other pups she has sold for us to corroborate her statements. Can the Vet be wrong?? ..."

Well, if I were to address strictly the statement that " ... no way the breeder does NOT know her pups have this condition ..."

Then, it is possible that the breeder may not know that YOUR PUP or your pup's LITTER has dermo mange ... because pups may not exbibit symptoms of dermo mange until they grow older ...

Sometimes, just by looking at a litter, and unless dermo mange had already developed - it is very hard to say whether the pups have low immunity and/or low resistence, which may encourage subsequent occurrence of dermo mange.

But again, what I think your vet is trying to say is that ... a good breeder should know the sire & dam (including their condition of health and background) - and if the sire & dam have bad health or have previously exhibited dermo mange, then they SHOULD NOT have been mated in the first place. Unfortunately, bad or irresponsible breeders don't care!

When a breeder refuses to give you names and addresses of the people who have her pups ... Well, that speaks volumes for itself, and 'nuff said ... no need for my comment even.

A dog that has propensity to dermo mange will carry that propensity through-out its whole life and may pass the poor immunity or resistance to its progeny (that is why, your vet says not to breed from your pup) ... but this is no reason to give up on the dog/pup.

Short term remedy: There are several drugs (and many natural boosters & supplementary treatments) that will help bring dermo mange under control ... and restore good health ...

Long term remedy: The best long term remedy/solution is to provide (A) good healthy nutrition (check the threads on BARF & other natural freshly prepared diets) ... (B) good exercise (this is very important to good health) ... (C) good living conditions and a happy environment (dogs, just like people thrive in a happy home) ...

Basically, if you maintain the dog/pup's good health & condition - you will boost, improve and maintain the dog/pup's good immunity & resistence ... If this is done consistently & properly, the dermo mange condition will be kept under control ... the condition need not get worse ...

Dermo mange is not infectious, and when managed properly, it will not detract from the dog/pup's quality of life or its need to cuddled and cared for in a loving environment and family ...

Oh ... one very important thing to keep in mind ... many pups quite naturally build better immunity and resistance as they grow older and dermo mange is no longer a problem once they mature ...

We too, have a dog with propensity to dermo mange, she is now going on 4yrs old ... she is such a happy dog, so full of life and enthusiasm ... she is a wonderful friend and much loved ...

Cheers Smile ...

PS ... Unless you are prepared to invest time and effort to be a "responsible breeder" ... namely, study the breed's standard, learn to appreciate conformation, structure & temperament, trace bloodlines and study genetics and be prepared to objectively judge the quality of your dog ... you should perhaps not be thinking of breeding your dog anyway.


(This post was edited by surchinmy on Mar 3, 2004, 7:58 PM)


jrooster
New User

Mar 3, 2004, 8:29 PM

Post #239 of 341 (15024 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks a million!! I agree with all of your statements. My conclusion is that any dog displaying symptoms of the Dermo mange, MUST have some degree of inherited immunodeficiency. SOOOO....., again I have to agree with the Vet, this breeder knows she is breeding the deficiency. Therefore, her agregious attitude and lack of cooperation. Are there any recourses available??? Will the AKC accept/act on reports of irresponsible breeders???

Thanks again!


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Mar 3, 2004, 9:34 PM

Post #240 of 341 (15022 views)
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Re: [jrooster] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi ...

Just a thought ... dogs with dermo mange may or probably suffer from some degree of inherited immune deficiency ... with issues of genetics ... it's awful hard to say "must" or "for sure" ... Dogs from apparently perfectly healthy bloodlines can still get low immunity or some other genetic defect ... it's a fear even good & responsible breeders live with ...

Your rights and remedies will depend on the "contract" you made with the breeder ... Did you and the breeder sign any agreement? If so, check the terms and conditions ...

But I suspect, chances are ... no agreement or contract was signed ... And without a written agreement - your remedies are limited, because it is going to be very hard to prove that the breeder guaranteed or promised you a dog without dermo mange ... It's your word against hers ... If you cannot prove such a guarantee or promise of quality then the general rule is that the buyer buys "as-is-where-is" with all risk ...

You can try complaining to MKA ... all the best to you there ... hope you get some reply ...

Crazy


(This post was edited by surchinmy on Mar 3, 2004, 9:39 PM)


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Mar 20, 2004, 6:44 AM

Post #241 of 341 (15007 views)
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Re: [Ballistic] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Ballistic,

My dog is still suffering from Mange...it's going to be a long process unfortunately cause his is round #2 Frown

The 3 painful jabs u mentioned must be Ivermectin jabs. Yeah they do hurt cause Sparkle would whine and cry for some time after the jab. This is one of the reasons why I've taken him off the jab and dip treatments. I've switched him to all the natural remedies for the moment...

I dunno why the bumps appear but I do know what u're referring to. If he does scratch, best is to put him on an e collar until he gets a little better.

Btw, good thing ur GR has recovered. But time to prepare yourself for PREVENTION now. I've read in books that these strong drugs cannot entirely cure it.....it helps to surpress it and if your dog is not strong enough it will come back the second time...and the third. So, best remedy for you now is to work on building a better immune system for your GR....good nutrition, exercise, love etc. Smile

I regret putting him on so many dips and jabs the first time he got mange. Feel guilty for it cause I think it did bring down his immunity...so second round is so much more problematic. *sigh*


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Mar 20, 2004, 6:51 AM

Post #242 of 341 (15006 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi SK,

Did you put your dog on the E collar? Sparkle has been on the E collar for so long that his skin around his neck is starting to sag (loss elasticity perhaps). It's saddening to see him like that and I"ve tried to take it out to see if he'll be ok without it. When I'm there he's ok but the moment I leave him alone he scratches himself senseless and ends up bleeding again...

I think the collar hampers his recovery rate. But what other methods can I use? I've thought of wrapping his neck area with gauze swabs to prevent him from scratching his skin directly. You think that can help? My only worry is there might not be enough air circulation and that might aggravate it further.

Another way is to wear socks. But Sparkle has such thin legs the socks falls off in a matter of minutes...hehe Not made to wear socks I guess.


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Mar 20, 2004, 8:37 AM

Post #243 of 341 (15001 views)
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Re: [cshellz] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi ...

No ... we didn't use the e-collar ... the itchiness was reasonably under control for our dog and the e-collar wasn't necessary ...

Maybe you can try baby socks or baby mittens ... try getting the ones with tongs that you can tighten around his paws ... but maybe most practical if you can use an old cotton t-shirt or similar to fashion a "scarf" around his neck ...

Have you been to see the vet? And if so, what treatment was prescribed?

All the best ... Smile


j_ove2
Member


Mar 26, 2004, 1:07 AM

Post #244 of 341 (14979 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

hi ....
i've been reading this thread fr page 1...n wat can i say other than thank you for the useful advice n information that u've posted. just brought jerrie to the vet yest, he's been diagnosed with dermodectic mange. he even let me view the mites thru the microsope! euwww
yest went home n clean the whole house with clorox, including his cage.
today he'll start on the ivermectin prescribed by the vet. slowly increase the dosage every 5 days. i was worried sick. onli praying hard that he'll recover .. no more skin probs for jerrie....
i forgot to ask the vet whether i shud refridgerate the ivermectin. just went out n bot the sea salt. will try on him later this evening. will also change his kibbles to lamb n rice formula. due to work commitment, i'm so sorry i cannot give him barf. as for the lemon tonic, will try this weekend. will also start giving him home made yogurt. is it too many things to do to him at one time?
just want to make him heal faster. my poor baby...

Cheers!
jaclyn n jerrie


j_ove2
Member


Mar 26, 2004, 1:38 AM

Post #245 of 341 (14978 views)
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Re: [cshellz] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

hi cshellz,
have been going thru ur posts.. i can understand ur worries. my puppy jerrie had just been diagnosed for mange too. i just hope that Sparkle can recover fr his 2nd round of mange. good luck to the both of us in our fight against mange!!

Cheers!
jaclyn n jerrie


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Mar 26, 2004, 2:28 AM

Post #246 of 341 (14976 views)
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Re: [j_ove2] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi ...

You are most welcome ... but am sorry to hear that your doggie has dermo mange ...

You actually don't have to disinfect the house etc ... Most (if not all dogs) have dermo mange mites present TongueSmileShocked ... dermo mange only becomes a problem when the dog also has low immunity ...

Yes ... keep the ivermectin in the fridge ... Please follow instructions & dosage carefully.

When changing or modifying diet ... do so in moderation and gradually ... observe your dog and adjust accordingly.

Don't rush things ... dermo is a condition that takes time to resolve ...

Cheers


j_ove2
Member


Mar 26, 2004, 5:08 PM

Post #247 of 341 (14974 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

hi hi
yest while i was at work, jerrie scratched himself to bleed at the neck. was so 'sam thong'!! then had to put iodine for him. but still itchy. i did wipe him with sea salt solution too. sigh i do hope that ivermectin will take effect n make him well again.

Cheers!
jaclyn n jerrie


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Mar 26, 2004, 7:34 PM

Post #248 of 341 (14971 views)
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Re: [j_ove2] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

... Ah ... okay ... say, if you are using iodine ... then no need for salt solution ... salt solution is just to clean the area ...

Cheers Smile


j_ove2
Member


Mar 26, 2004, 9:55 PM

Post #249 of 341 (14967 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

hi..
is there anything else i can do to stop the itching?? or scratching?? since the wound is at the neck area, can i still use the e-collar?

Cheers!
jaclyn n jerrie


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Mar 27, 2004, 12:47 AM

Post #250 of 341 (14964 views)
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Re: [j_ove2] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post

Hmmm ...

Keep the area clean with mild salt solution ... you can try applying a hotspot lotion, these lotions contain anti-itch properties ...

In cases of severe itching - ask the vet about the possibility of prescribing anti-inflamatory tablets ...

Try and prevent dog from scratching area ... If you need the e-collar to prevent the dog from biting other areas, then I would continue to use the e-collar ...

Cheers Smile

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