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Local Schutzhund Trial





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boon
Doggyman


Dec 27, 2003, 8:56 AM

Post #1 of 71 (31878 views)
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Local Schutzhund Trial Can't Post

Calling all working dog kakis,

When do you think we, Malaysian can have our very own SchH trial in Malaysia ? 2004 should be a good year to start on......so for those who are about to or interested in this field, do drop us a like and share your thoughts with us.

Looking forward to title your working dogs locally ? Come together and lets make this happened.Wink

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Dec 27, 2003, 9:21 AM

Post #2 of 71 (31870 views)
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Re: [boon] Local Schutzhund Trial [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,Smile

Just wondering...to title them, we need to form a club first right? or can we just invite a judge representative of a another country's club to get them titled?

Hmm..not sure can mention this in here...

But there are some talks abt it by some interested parties..how's that coming along?
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)



Ludoc
Novice


Jan 13, 2004, 8:07 AM

Post #3 of 71 (31816 views)
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Re: [boon] Local Schutzhund Trial [In reply to] Can't Post

I have in mind a 'friendly' competition in Iskandar Polo Club Ipoh for a start, to get the ball rolling and to get interested people to gather together to chart our further path. MKA GSD chapter has shot down my proposal to form a Schutzhund club last year. So far I know of interested parties from Perlis, Penang, KL to Johor Baru and Ipoh should be a good central point to meet. The other practical reason is to obviate the need to apply for a public liscense, it being a private ground and participation is' by invitation' only. The venue I have in mind is very scenic and tranquil and is big enough for even a world Schutzhund event and cost is minimal. What say you. all you itching-to-be schutzhund kakis out there?Email me for an opinion poll:voonsan@netscape.net


Ludoc
Novice


Jan 13, 2004, 8:16 AM

Post #4 of 71 (31814 views)
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Re: [RealityDreamer] Local Schutzhund Trial [In reply to] Can't Post

I tried but there was some resistance from some quarters in an organization. It is not difficult to invite a qualified judge from Germany but for official titling, there needs to be an invitation from an affiliated local club. That is the sticky part. Maybe we should put our heads together and find a solution or lobby harder! I think the ground swell is getting bigger for the organization to ignore our voice, what with puppy.com organizing more meaningful and successful K9 events!. It has to issue warning letters to members not to take part in "unsanctioned" events!


boon
Doggyman


Jan 13, 2004, 8:19 AM

Post #5 of 71 (31814 views)
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Re: [Ludoc] Local Schutzhund Trial [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Dr Loo,

Nice to have u here with us......finally you're in....lol....Wink

Welcome aboard....shall gather more schh kakis and kick off our own trial this year....

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


boon
Doggyman


Jan 13, 2004, 8:25 AM

Post #6 of 71 (31813 views)
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Re: [Ludoc] Local Schutzhund Trial [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,

I doubt that the local woof woof organization can do anything about their members attending events that is not sanctioned by them.

From their last memo to all members stated very clearly like this 'members are not encouranging to attend any unsanctioned event' BUT they didn't write something like 'members are NOT ALLOW to attend any unsanctioned event......'

Further more, no signature at the bottom of the memo....and am doubt that anyone of those woof woof fellow dare to put their name down there, 'from the committee members'

Anyway this is what i see and IMHO :)

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


Kowpa
Member

Jan 13, 2004, 9:06 AM

Post #7 of 71 (31811 views)
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Re: [boon] Local Schutzhund Trial [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Hi,

I doubt that the local woof woof organization can do anything about their members attending events that is not sanctioned by them.

From their last memo to all members stated very clearly like this 'members are not encouranging to attend any unsanctioned event' BUT they didn't write something like 'members are NOT ALLOW to attend any unsanctioned event......'

Further more, no signature at the bottom of the memo....and am doubt that anyone of those woof woof fellow dare to put their name down there, 'from the committee members'

Anyway this is what i see and IMHO :)



If they put their signature down they are just like entering into a tiger's den LOL

I strongly disagreed with the memo by MKA to all MkA's members the reasons are

1 demo schutzhund or obed u need a well train dogs. Now if these dogs are trained under MKA or purchased by MKA I feel is not right to participate in others organization event, what if is not I feel Mka has no right to stop members from participating such events. We buy and train dogs for the love of the sport and not for putting them under the blankets


boon
Doggyman


Jan 13, 2004, 9:19 AM

Post #8 of 71 (31808 views)
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Re: [Kowpa] Local Schutzhund Trial [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Kowpa,

The only think i can think of y they so against this SchH and OB demo in puppycom events are becoz one or all of the following :-
  • the rejected and shooting blanks GSD that owned by the tai kor there are capable of taking GUNTEST without pee all over its handler's pants ? Can the 6 digits worth dog produce ?
  • Can their dogs do SchH ? if can't then this make sense at least to me y they're so against SchH and others thing that the shooting blanks can't do.
  • Can their dogs walk/run 15/20KM ? yes but at the end of the trek, come back with the dead dog or 'Hippy' GSD
  • can their washout doing OB ? the answer is YES, don blame the dog, but the owner and the handler,......but bare in mind that where on earth they can get the good/experience/knowledgable OB trainer in their group ? is there any ? i'm not sure, if yes do correct me, but one thing for sure, i know they have one trainer that always do this 'Heel Heel Hell, Goto Hell' no correction, simply pull, pop correct, choke the dog.


Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


Kowpa
Member

Jan 13, 2004, 10:16 AM

Post #9 of 71 (31807 views)
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Re: [boon] Local Schutzhund Trial [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Hi Kowpa,

The only think i can think of y they so against this SchH and OB demo in puppycom events are becoz one or all of the following :-
  • the rejected and shooting blanks GSD that owned by the tai kor there are capable of taking GUNTEST without pee all over its handler's pants ? Can the 6 digits worth dog produce ? ________________________________________________________________


No need gun just balloon will do. Yes they will produce a peeing when the burst of the balloon,

______________________________________________________________________
  • Can their dogs do SchH ? if can't then this make sense at least to me y they're so against SchH and others thing that the shooting blanks can't do.


______________________________________________________________________

Their dogs can do sch thats printed in their papers such as SCh3 IPO3 etc in print for your info IN PRINT not action

_______________________________________________________________________
  • Can their dogs walk/run 15/20KM ? yes but at the end of the trek, come back with the dead dog or 'Hippy' GSD


__________________________________________________________________________

Run on trek mill machine

_________________________________________________________________________
  • can their washout doing OB ? the answer is YES, don blame the dog, but the owner and the handler,......but bare in mind that where on earth they can get the good/experience/knowledgable OB trainer in their group ? is there any ? i'm not sure, if yes do correct me, but one thing for sure, i know they have one trainer that always do this 'Heel Heel Hell, Goto Hell' no correction, simply pull, pop correct, choke the dog
  • _____________________________________________________________________Yes they do have monkey sees monkey do trainers Seeing the tip of an iceberg they say they have seen an iceberg



PSD
ALPHA


Jan 13, 2004, 6:25 PM

Post #10 of 71 (31802 views)
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Re: [boon,Ludoc,Kowpa and all] Local Schutzhund Trial [In reply to] Can't Post

Guys,

Really a fiesty morning eh? This is the type of spirit we need for SchH to see it happen. I do believe Malaysia can do it and do it well. The most important is to have the people that are committed and loves the sport enough to make it happen. Not for ego, self gain and positions. I know this is much easier said than done but right now I think we can value one another to really see who we are.

About the as father of all wrong doings is something I think we may want to reconsider. Yes we had problems, we have weaknesses, SchH was thrown out of their GSD chapter before and many more. However we must remember what we set to do here and align our sights to start SchH and not to lobby against MKA. This struggle is not about personal feelings, not about bruised ego and definately not about who wins and who lose. This struggle is to bring understand and promotion on how wonderful to see man and his dog in action together.

Many things have happened in Malaysia as well as in the world today. Show and working always draws the line everywhere. It is not for anyone to say if show is any better than working or vice versa. just remember the facts that we are dealing here. Shows are for show rings to look beautiful. Work is for dogs to show its athletism and spirit to complete the trial. This is the essense. There is not a need for anyone to condemn any sides. I'd say let the show continue run but let SchH grow too. Co-existence is the idea and a real possibility. There is not a need to fight this meaningless war.

SchH should be started as itself for now. Clubs should be allowed and acknowledged in different locations as life nodes. Inter clubs trials is to be done regularly to sharpen the skills. All this would be best to be placed under the umbrella of MKA. We must try this way first and like mentioned by LUDOC, things change and perhaps MKA may want to consider its past decision a change too. We may never know unless we try again. Otherwise, SchH spirit is soaring now. More and more people are aware of SchH and willing to make it happen one way or another. If this time it is proven again that MKA refuses to see the obvious, then we will bring it to the people that can see clearer whomever it may be. Let us come together not as any opposition party, but promoters of the sport.

What say u guys? We need more participation here...... from fresh people too. Sherman, Prodog, Chloe, Azman, Polluxx, kaerb, .....just to mention a few. please come over and express your view. if this is going to happen, u r all the pillars.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


boon
Doggyman


Jan 13, 2004, 6:46 PM

Post #11 of 71 (31798 views)
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Re: [PSD] Local Schutzhund Trial [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi PSD San,

Ohiyo....well said, yeah agreed, sometime people tend to get too emotional when this 'Monster' is in the pic. They should have carefully rethink of their club image.

But a growing pup under the care of the Monster is not a good idea IMHO.

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --

(This post was edited by boon on Jan 13, 2004, 7:33 PM)


MalsInOz
Novice


Jan 13, 2004, 6:58 PM

Post #12 of 71 (31797 views)
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Re: [PSD] Local Schutzhund Trial [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello all,

Sorry i have been very busy training over the past month - we have had Mr Lance Collins ((Canada) former #4 WUSV World Championship with a dog bred trained and handled by himself) here in Brisbane for the past month so we have been training very hard!Smile

Very well said PSD - it is very hard when you can see bad things happening, but please try not to cause problems with MKA - you will need to negotiate with them in future.Wink

Is MKA a member of FCI? Do you have a National GSD Club that is a member of WUSV?

Here in Australia we have to use non-SV judges as the GSDCA (who is a member of WUSV) will not allow them to judge Schutzhund in our country! We have had many very good international judges from USA, Europe & Canada.

I think first you need get some clubs organised and build a membership and training base, then form your own "umbrella" organisation for your clubs, then use the "umbrella" organisation to approach MKA or similar. It is a long hard road, but if your priority is training dogs for the sport then it really doesn't matter. Just always remember that the whole sport in your country will be judged on how you present it at all levels.

I am happy to pass on your contact details to the board of AUSC (Australian United Sportdog Clubs) - they will have much more experience with this than myself.

Regards,

MalsInOz


Ludoc
Novice


Jan 13, 2004, 7:54 PM

Post #13 of 71 (31789 views)
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Re: [PSD] Local Schutzhund Trial [In reply to] Can't Post

When I said to lobbu harder, I meant to lobby the GSD chapter of MKA. The main resistance encountered was fro the Obedience people who raked in a lot of money for the parent organization and wanted Schutzhund to be under its control . There are no other GSD clubs and I fear no other will be allowed to be registered. MKA is affiliated to FCI and that is why I thought the-GSD Chapter is the best platform for us to start. There is another alternative, form a club and seek affliation to DVG Club in Germany. I was told Schutzhund is going the way of IPO. Anybody has any idea on what is happening? Another thing I would like to do is to organize a one week course to train schH helpers. I met one Robby (I forget his last name) in Bangkok some time ago who said he was willing to conduct the course if we can get a group of 12 people. We only have to pay for his airfare and accomadation and meals. It will be one week full time. Any takers?. From here we can go onto organizing training seminars and workshop etc and one day, maybe even bring over Bernhard Flink, who is the 'hero' of so many of us all (thanks to Leerburg vide0s!) Singapore and Thailand has got schH well running, we cannot afford to be still sitting back and talking!. Time to act, albeit not in the most ideal way. We have to go through teething problems and enlist foreign help to start. I am willing to host a gathering of all enthusiast in Ipoh as I have mentioned. Nothing official but a kick start in the pointed direction!


boon
Doggyman


Jan 13, 2004, 8:43 PM

Post #14 of 71 (31784 views)
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Re: [Ludoc] Local Schutzhund Trial [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,

If i'm not mistaken, MKA relationship with FCI is affiliated via AKU not direct affiliation.

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


Kowpa
Member

Jan 13, 2004, 9:03 PM

Post #15 of 71 (31783 views)
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Re: [Ludoc] Local Schutzhund Trial [In reply to] Can't Post

Please make it happened this time. We can have Robby or Thong over here. Especially Thong he is willing to help us all the while as u know it very well. the poor thing is that one of our friend in our group passed away too fast If not we are all the way ahead. We can die but schutzhund can never die so let gether and make it happened again My hats off to all of u in this thread, we are going to be special and united LIke schutzhund people in Germany. Australia can do it their way y not us Schutzhund people boleh. Forget what people says Think of schutzhund in action and we are happy all the way. Just like Puppy.com do what they can for the love of the dogs and the dog's sport For the love of schutzhund come on lets get start and forget what have to people say.


PSD
ALPHA


Jan 13, 2004, 10:28 PM

Post #16 of 71 (31775 views)
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Re: [MalsInOz] Local Schutzhund Trial [In reply to] Can't Post

Evan,

I'm happy and must say I'm thrilled you are still around. I had thought that we have lost you due to the long absense since your last post. Your words of encouragement is diamonds to my eyes.

I'm well aware that it would be better to co-exist and grows from there. Maybe this is why I look at things differently. Nevertheless we must plan to stick SchH on the ground one way or another. You sounded a very practical approach to me about the umbrella body. This just gives me another practical idea. i will have to discuss with some people first to see how we handle this. Thanks.

Remember to let me know the dates of your trials and if you have any prominent seminars or courses in your area. We may be interested. Do let us know. Hope we can meet up one day and talk about nothing but dogs...Smile

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


PSD
ALPHA


Jan 13, 2004, 10:38 PM

Post #17 of 71 (31773 views)
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Re: [Ludoc] Local Schutzhund Trial [In reply to] Can't Post

Ludoc,

Yes I understand you perfectly. Perhaps we should not discuss it too details here for some sensitivities it may brings. I have some plans and ideas but let us think about it a bit more and refine the approach. Will bring it up to you seperately.

About Robby, I'm in. 12 is not difficult from here. My end should have 3-4 ready. Just let me know when. As far as I'm concerned u can go ahead and bring him in. We will support you all the way.

About Berhard Flinks and world class training......lets have more world class dogs here first. Otherwise we may be rubbing shit right in our own face....WinkBlush

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


boon
Doggyman


Jan 13, 2004, 11:52 PM

Post #18 of 71 (31765 views)
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In Reply To
lets have more world class dogs here first. Otherwise we may be rubbing shit right in our own face
Good question and at the same time superb way of expressing the situation locally here in Malaysia. Where on earth for average people like us can afford to have a genetically correct and sound dog ? Any one ? any good breeding program on .....

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --

(This post was edited by boon on Jan 14, 2004, 12:31 AM)


Ludoc
Novice


Jan 13, 2004, 11:52 PM

Post #19 of 71 (31765 views)
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Re: [MalsInOz] Local Schutzhund Trial [In reply to] Can't Post

Is your AUSG affiliated to DVG Germany? DVG judges are also qualified to award Schutzhund and IPO titles, not only SV. Do you have any info on the 'merging' of standards between Schutzhund and IPO. I heard they are trying to unify the training standards and if so it will be a good thing. Perhaps you can share with us your experience in forming the AUSV. I'm sure there are many lessons we can learn from you!


Ludoc
Novice


Jan 14, 2004, 12:12 AM

Post #20 of 71 (31760 views)
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Re: [boon] Local Schutzhund Trial [In reply to] Can't Post

Let not those who cannot afford a 'world class' og despair!On one of the spectrum there are those who want to excel and go on to world competition. On the other end, most people just want a well trained PP dog and any puppy with correct drive and upbringing and education can be trained to be such. I am always amazed at people who can recite the dog's pedigree thrown back to decades! Mate Mike Tyson to ten female wrestlers and you do not get all boxing or wrestling off-springs. Genetics is not a pure sum game. That is the beauty of breeding: there is always an element of chance. When we are learning, we should not be afraid to shame ourselves! If we have trainers as good as Bernhard, we do not need him! Please take no offense! It is just personal opinion!


MalsInOz
Novice


Jan 14, 2004, 12:24 AM

Post #21 of 71 (31758 views)
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Re: [Ludoc] Local Schutzhund Trial [In reply to] Can't Post

AUSC is not affiliated with any international body and this is part of the problem we have right now. From what I know, in our case DVG judge requires OK from National Kennel Club ANKC so we have trouble there as well. Most of our judges come from United Schutzhund Clubs of America (USA) and other judges that are not directly registered by WUSV.

SchH & IPO rules are basically exactly the same from start of 2004 but still different names. This gives VDH room to move if they don't like future changes to IPO that the FCI may make.

Major changes:

SchH 1
- no on-leash heeling
- attack on handler replaced by Escape
- Retrieve over A-Frame added

SchH 2
- no on-leash heeling
- walking motion stand

SchH 3
- no walking motion stand(just running)

I think this is all, I'll check and get back on later.

Great to see dedicated people passionate about this great dogsport!!Smile

Regards,

MalsInOz


boon
Doggyman


Jan 14, 2004, 12:38 AM

Post #22 of 71 (31757 views)
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Re: [Ludoc] Local Schutzhund Trial [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Ludoc,


In Reply To


Mate Mike Tyson to ten female wrestlers and you do not get all boxing or wrestling off-springs. Genetics is not a pure sum game.



Fully agreed with you and i totally understand the concept of putting a doctor father and doctor mother together will not guarantee you a doctor son/daughter. But the % of this is higher than an average couple. Genetics/Pedigree doesn't mean much when come to talk about whether the dog can perform or not. But not to forget also these are the building blocks for the finish product.

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


PSD
ALPHA


Jan 14, 2004, 12:49 AM

Post #23 of 71 (31757 views)
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Re: [Ludoc] Local Schutzhund Trial [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Let not those who cannot afford a 'world class' og despair!On one of the spectrum there are those who want to excel and go on to world competition. On the other end, most people just want a well trained PP dog and any puppy with correct drive and upbringing and education can be trained to be such. I am always amazed at people who can recite the dog's pedigree thrown back to decades! Mate Mike Tyson to ten female wrestlers and you do not get all boxing or wrestling off-springs. Genetics is not a pure sum game. That is the beauty of breeding: there is always an element of chance. When we are learning, we should not be afraid to shame ourselves! If we have trainers as good as Bernhard, we do not need him! Please take no offense! It is just personal opinion!



Well said. In any case world class dogs with lousy handlers become shit dogs anyway. What we need are reasonable dog and learn and sharpen our skills. The bigger issue here is people who spend tens of thousands and get the rejects is a real heart pain. This can be prevented with more knowledge before going on a buying spree. Breeding programe is never easy. To get the right dog with the right magic combination is something of luck of an educated guess. This is why good dogs that have the drives are not cheap and real breeders are not money spinners period. Buy a dog on its own merit and not pedigree. In a litter, not every dog are top loaders. Pedigree reading people is like wine connoisuer. It is an art of guessing....some people does good some people smells dust. End of the day "Show me the dog"

Actually, when I mentioned not to put shit in our own face, I meant it in a way that we should have active people having the right dog and better equipped to receive what he can give us. No point asking a whole classroom of kindy boys and girls to listen to a geneticist expounding theory of relativity. This is my opinion. I do agree Bernhard is good also thanks to american superior publicity that made him into a hero like personality today. We can definately benefit from more international class trainers whoever they are.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Jan 14, 2004, 2:55 AM

Post #24 of 71 (31746 views)
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Re: [Ludoc] Local Schutzhund Trial [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello,Smile

Hv been MIA for only a few days and look what happened! As for Bobby,when is it?I would love to join but I'm still studying so I might have problems.

Also,when is the SchH "trial" in Ipoh? Some of us were actually planning a trip up there to hv a look at Micheal's kennel.
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)



RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Jan 14, 2004, 2:59 AM

Post #25 of 71 (31745 views)
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Re: [boon] Local Schutzhund Trial [In reply to] Can't Post

LOL Laugh

very good points.
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)


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