Home: Dog & Puppy Health: Skin Conditions and Diseases:
Mange



cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 13, 2003, 4:44 PM


Views: 34110
Mange

Hi guys,

How about we have a discussion on Mange here? We can discuss its symptoms, types of mites, prevention, cure, how to care for dogs with mange, how to test for mange etc etc..

Easier to do a search and we can all pool our thoughts to educate ourselves and others


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 13, 2003, 4:57 PM


Views: 34083
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Extracted from: ThePetCenter.com

DIAGNOSIS

Demodex mites usually create irregularly shaped, mildly irritated areas of hair loss. The skin is usually not inflamed and the lesions are not highly pruritic (itchy). Conversely, Sarcoptic mite lesions are very pruritic, inflamed and scabs may be present.

The diagnosis is made by doing a skin scraping of the affected area and placing the scrapings on a microscope slide. Usually the material scraped from the skin is mixed with mineral oil and then examined under the microscope. (NOTE: Sarcoptic mites are rarely visible via skin scrapings and are therefore very commonly misdiagnosed as an allergic skin disorder because the veterinarian "couldn't see any mites. Demodex mites are plentiful and seem to be easily detected via skin scrapings even though they spend most of their time deep in the hair follicles


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 13, 2003, 5:00 PM


Views: 34082
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Extracted from: ThePetsCorner.com

AN EXPLANATION ABOUT MANGE

Demodex in the dog is a common infestation of the dog’s skin with tiny, cigar-shaped, eight-legged mites. The mites reside and feed in the hair follicle and oil glands of the skin. Also called Mange, which is a general term used to describe any kind of mite infestation, Demodex is generally less severe than Sarcoptic mite infestation.

Fortunately, most cases of Demodectic mites are self-limiting… that is, the animal is able to arrest the reproduction and growth of the mites and eventually repair the damage they do. Once eliminated, most dogs do not acquire another infestation; the dog’s immune defenses are primed to eliminate any new Demodex mites that happen to find themselves on the dog. However, there are certain individual dogs that, because of genetic programming, do not produce the specific immune factors that will target the mites for destruction. That specific lack of adequate immune defense against the mites is a hereditary aspect of the disease that can predispose an infested dog to a severe, unresponsive case of Demodex. Many veterinarians believe that all dogs have small numbers of Demodex mites residing in the skin and that having a few mites is normal and common. It is when immune related, or nutritional or environmental stresses impact the dog that visible skin lesions from mite infestations become noticeable. Seen most commonly in young dogs, and rarely in cats, Demodex skin lesions are usually transient, but occasionally in certain individuals the mites will totally overwhelm the dog's skin.


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 13, 2003, 5:01 PM


Views: 34079
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Extracted from: ThePetsCorner.com


TREATMENT

In dogs with very mild, localized, small skin lesions some veterinarians do not treat the dog at all. Other veterinarians will always treat a Demodex lesion with topical medications appropriate as an insecticide. (Some home remedies are harmful so always consult with your veterinarian about any kind of skin lesion and the safest and most effective therapy.)

It is vitally important that all dogs (not just dogs with health problems) be consuming a high quality, meat-based diet with proper amounts of high quality fat. Any dog, especially a growing pup, that is consuming a cheap, grain-based diet will not fare as well as the dog eating a high quality diet. In general, the better diets are higher in price so do not let your decision about what to feed your dog be dictated by the cost. The nutritional aspects of skin disorders is an often overlooked "treatment" and should always be considered when a health impacting situation is present.

Mitaban is commonly used treatment for Demodex and has a proven record of successes. This prescription-only product is diluted with water and applied to the dog's skin according to the product directions. Repeated applications are almost always required. On occasion a veterinarian may decide to use a product called Ivermectin. This product must be very carefully calculated regarding dosages that are effective and not toxic. The use of Ivermectin in treating Demodex needs to be discussed with the owner prior to use since it has not been labeled for use against Demodex.

A new product called Revolution is being used to treat Demodex. It is applied as a liquid to a small area of the skin and spreads throughout the skin's oil surfaces.

Lime-Sulphur dips have been used in the past but there are more effective methods that have been favored in recent years.


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 13, 2003, 5:03 PM


Views: 34077
Re: Mange

There....one of the better sites I've read about Mange.

Let's discuss!! Anyone with any knowledge, experience, advice, comment, secret remedies please post them here! Smile


htpol
Novice

Aug 13, 2003, 6:18 PM


Views: 34073
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Hi,

There is a product in the market claimed that is effective to treat demodex mange. The ingredients are ascorbic acid, palmitic acid... etc. which is originated from the fruit seed extract. According to the scientific data provided it's effective to kill those microorganism including ticks, fleas, mites, bacteria, fungus and viruses. The contents of the organic components is 20000 ppm and the most resistant strain of bacteria is Pseudomonas --5000ppm(MIC). Therefore, it has an immediately killing germs effect. I found that it's effective on my dog with fungal infection. The photo showing in the pet shops are severe demodex mange in a bull mastiff. It takes about 35 days for recovery. Since I don't have mange problem on my dog, I don't know how effective when come accross with mange. Besides that, I think Ivermectin or some chemicals (amitraz) are the first choice to treat the demodex mange.


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 13, 2003, 7:39 PM


Views: 34064
Re: [htpol] Mange

Hi htpol,

Thanks for your reply. Smile Can I ask what were the symptoms of fungal infection in your dog?

My puppy is now suffering from some kind of skin problem which I strongly suspect is Mange. Been to the vet a few times already but he says it isn't. My dog's condition now: Losing fur on front legs, muzzle, around the eyes. Rashes with pimple and pus on one thigh, and inflammation of the dewclaw. A little infection in his left eye. Fortunately his eye and dewclaw seems to be improving, but he's still losing fur. So just wanted to know if fungal infections bring about these symptoms too.

Btw, what product are you talking about? If you don't mind, could you forward me the name/website address of the mentioned product? I could check it with my vet this weekend when I take my dog there again. If he says it's not mange again, then perhaps I can try out the product you're talking about.

Thanks! Cool


htpol
Novice

Aug 13, 2003, 8:17 PM


Views: 34063
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Hi,

I think the product is not well established for the time being due to lack of support on technical issue. I got it from the pet shop in ss2. Well, my dog was having serious ticks problem initially. There were about 20 parts of the skin having the allergic reaction due to the ticks bites. The hair loss of coz on the bite size, finally the color of skin has changed to black color and the lesions is about 50 cts coin size. I believe this is fungal infection and complicated with bacterial infection as I have noticed pus on the skin lesion.

From your description, I think probably your dog is having the mange problem but it could be identified by the vet.

The manufacurer of the products are from Spain but they have not enough data to support it that is indicated for mange. Again, I don't have the details of the company including the websites. However, there is no harm for trying it as the contents are purely natural. Bear in mind that, the products are natural and it really takes a month to get complete recovery.


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 13, 2003, 8:28 PM


Views: 34064
Re: [cshellz] Mange

 Thanks cshellz … think you have produced a very good description/summary of Demo Mange.

“Fortunately, most cases of Demodectic mites are self-limiting… that is, the animal is able to arrest the reproduction and growth of the mites and eventually repair the damage they do … the dog’s immune defences are primed to eliminate any new Demodex mites … However, there are certain individual dogs that, because of genetic programming, do not produce the specific immune factors that will target the mites for destruction. That specific lack of adequate immune defence against the mites is a hereditary aspect of the disease that can predispose an infested dog to a severe, unresponsive case of Demodex … It is when immune related, or nutritional or environmental stresses impact the dog that visible skin lesions from mite infestations become noticeable … but occasionally in certain individuals the mites will totally overwhelm the dog's skin.”

“Ivermectin” is effective, but please make sure your vet is familiar (or find a vet who is familiar) with this treatment, it has to be very carefully carried out.

As your posting suggests, (a) the existence of Demo Mange is not uncommon in dogs. And a healthy dog’s natural resistance controls Demo Mange pretty well (and may only need a booster now and again) and (b) only becomes a serious problem when a dog’s natural ability to combat Demo Mange is compromised, whether by some genetic limitation or some nutritional/environmental stress.

Unfortunately, have seen more and more puppies exhibiting mild to serious infection of Demo Mange, particularly with pet shop puppies (presumably puppies from uninformed/irresponsible breeders or puppy mills). But have also seen this condition in puppies from some better-known breeders. In its early or mild stages, Demo Mange is not so easy to identify.

Although the general consensus among the breeders I know is that dogs carrying a genetic disposition to Demo Mange should not be bred from … too many breeders don’t care … but that is probably a story for another posting.

As I understand it, topical or internal treatment of Demo Mange for dogs suffering from genetically induced Demo Mange is only a temporary solution. The treatments merely reduce the mange infection so as to give the dog a chance to recover its health and increase its natural immunity levels …

It is therefore very important for a dog generally predisposed to Demo Mange to maintain its overall health and immunity system. When their health & immunity levels drop, the mange infestation returns …

Secret remedies?

For serious cases, I would hesitate to prescribe home remedies ... a good knowlegble vet is best but please make sure your vet understands Demo Mange.

While the dog is recovering ... any natural topical form of skin lotion is helpful and helps the dog feel more comfortable ... Mild T-tree or neem oil lotions seem to work. Aloe vera is also good. Cannot go wrong if you also research natural remedies for maintaining healthy skin, primrose oil etc ...

But the treating of genetically induced Demo Mange is a long term affair ... Which brings us back to diet … And I would definitely agree that a balanced fresh raw diet is the best and most effective long term protection from Demo Mange. Sufficient exercise and exposure to sunlight also helps maintain a more active immune system.

Found the following books very helpful on natural treatments, and I seem to remember seeing both in local bookshops.

Dr. Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs and Cats
by Richard H. Pitcairn, Susan Hubble Pitcairn (Preface)

Homeopathic Care for Cats and Dogs: Small Doses for Small Animals
by Donald Hamilton, Don Hamilton

Cheers


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 13, 2003, 10:03 PM


Views: 34057
Re: [htpol] Mange

hi htpol,

Thanks for the suggestion. I will check it out at the petshop if I have the time b4 I take him to the petshop...will also bring this up with the vet to see if he has anything to say about it. Will check its ingredients when I do see it....if it's all herbs and made out of the naturals, there shouldn't be a problem esp if it's not taken orally. I presume Smile

Is your dog fully recovered now?


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 13, 2003, 10:14 PM


Views: 34057
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Hi surchinmy,

wow! what a detailed explanation! Cool

Thanks for your advice. I'm in the midst of doing some research online for some homeopathic solutions..

From what I gather, this mange problem like like humans who contract cold sores! It comes back over and over again because the virus is still there... dormant when u're fine and healthy, active when u're not and when ur immunity is low.

I did ask my vet about tea tree oil but he advised me to leave it to heal alone as putting it on my dog might encourage him to lick at the area more. He's now wearing the e-collar (for 3 weeks already!) so I guess I should try stuff like this now when he's still wearing it and unable to see his own limbs Crazy The fastest and most natural thing for me to try out now is probably the aloe vera and sunlight. My dog doesn't like being under the sun very much but we might have to try to tie him to the gate under the morning sun for about 5-10 mins to start off with. Hopefully that can help a little.

This weekend he's definitely getting a skin scrape. The doc has been telling me it's unecessary for 3 weeks now and I can't wait another week seeing him growing balder by the day. We're going to the vet for like 4 weeks in a row now!

Well, once again, thanks for sharing! If you remember anything else, please post it here! It might just help my little baby!

Thanks! Smile


JolinG
Doggyman


Aug 14, 2003, 2:14 AM


Views: 34041
Re: [cshellz] Mange

hie michelle,
recently we bought a book on homoepathci remedies. author is george Macleod(MRCVS,DVSM, Vet FF Hom)
this is wat i extracted from it share with u

1.Follicular Mange- this form of mange attackes young animals, e.g under 1 year. 2 main types of condition exist:- 1. Squamous, 2. pustular.

Clinical Signs- a) squamous type: hair follicles r attacked by the mite which inhabits neighbouring sebacous glands. hair falls out at wide area of skin, although smaller area also affected. dryness n scalliness while a bluish discolouration develops over bare patches
b) Pustular type: hair follicles becomes seat for small pustules around mouth, outer elbow and hock n in the axillary region. extension of lesions lead to development of small fistule which secrete puss material

Treatment:-
a) Squamous type:
1)sulphur 30C-alters condition favourable to mite
2)KALI ARSEN. 30 C-for advance case
3)LYCOPODIUM 1M-stimulate hair growth

b)Pustular type:
1) - powerful action on purulent infections of hair follicles
2)KALI ARSEN 30C-same as in a)
3)SILICEA 30C-for cases showing extensions of lesions
4)CALC. SULPH 6x
5)MEZEREUM 6 C
6)THALLIUM ACETAS 30C

eh my hand tired edi lah type so much
u wan more info msn me lar
ahhaha!


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 14, 2003, 2:45 AM


Views: 34038
Re: [JolinG] Mange

hi Joanne,Smile

wahh....thank u thank u..so touched that u did that Blush

If it's really Mange, then I think Sparkle is more or less showing more symptoms of the Pustular type. Frown BUt most important of all..........did the book tell where we can get those stuff and what they are?? And how to mix it? How to apply? or Wash? Soak??

thanks! Smile


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 14, 2003, 2:54 AM


Views: 34037
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Yes ... Smile ... exactly like cold sores with mites replacing virus ...

Find it a little strange that the vet is reluctant to do a skin scrape ...

Neeways ... I have a number of books etc on natural remedies ... and a very good vet ... so if you wish to discuss more or wish particulars you can email me at surchinmy@yahoo.com ... Don't think we are supposed to discuss vets and such like on this forum ...

cheers


JolinG
Doggyman


Aug 14, 2003, 3:16 AM


Views: 34033
Re: [cshellz] Mange

yea i was thinking pustular type also. if u wanna read more i can lend the book to u lar...

homoepathic remedies come in pillules, its small small round lactose infused pills wan...very much smaller then average tablets.
u wan to get those stuff arh......i duno bout the vets here n stuff....but i can help u lar...
and feed it to the doggies according to the dosage..usually 1 pillules every fews hours or something depending on the severity of diseases.
and give 15 mins before food n drink..and u canot touch the pillules cos your hands contain oil/sweat that might alter the compositon of the pillules lar.


ginl
ALPHA


Aug 14, 2003, 6:42 AM


Views: 34027
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Hi Michelle,

Im going to paste and advice given to me by a holistic board on mange. It also includes homeopathic remedy posted by Joanne here (extracted frm the same book source)....it's a bit long but well worth the info and knowledge if you read it thoroughly :


Gina, I am going to copy/paste information on Holistic Treatments of 2 types of Mange which I hope you will find useful. They are well used, have proved to be very good.
Yes, you need to Detox your dog, you can get a good homeopathic detox from DetoxRules@aol.com or you can order it from www.caninecaregroup.net, Remedy Page, then click on Pets4Homeopathy and go from there. You do need to build up the Immune System, again on the CCG website, you will find some articles on what damage all different types of chemicals and medications can do to our animals. Please go there and read them. Vaccines are the worst thing. If you have a dog in this situation, your vet should not even suggest vaccinating. I appreciate you need to give Rabies, but if a dog is in ill health you can get a waiver from your vet until things are sorted out.
You have choices. You can vaccinate and use homeopathic remedies alongside those vaccinations to try and negate the toxic effect or remove the toxins that are in the actual vaccines, the list is long and if you saw it you would never vaccinate again. You can choose not to vaccinate but keep homeopathic vaccine nosodes on hand should they ever be required, or you can vaccinate homeopathically. The same applies to Parasite and Flea control, all this can be done holistically/homeopathically. Please DO NOT dip this dog. You are going to cause more problems than you know. The Diet also is essential. It must be a natural diet, a good homecooked diet or a holistic kibble diet......whatever is easy and we do have a diet topic page that I know will give you good advice on this subject. So, here are the articles, read them, and if you have any queries as to how or where to buy remedies, please write back.
I am not that struck with the aromatherapy to be honest and I have tried it in the past. I find that the homeopathic route, using a proper Detox first, gives benefit but it will take time. Do not give this dog any other medications unless they are required for life saving purposes. My main concern if I was treating him would be to get the Immune system strong, the skin regularly cleansed and the remedies listed below into the dog to start fighting off infection, which can set in, and cleanse the blood. All of this will help your dog.
Hope this is enough information, if not, please do get in touch. Sam

***Without any doubt you need to get this dog onto a Detox which will remove all the toxins caused by all these medications. These are not really helping the dog. It is fairly obvious that he cannot cope with them and his Immune System is taking a real beating.
Lita can also provide this, along with a blood/immune/infection remedy which will back up the Detox and I think she will be able to supply you with a homeopathic steroid.
There are other ways to control Mange, and rather than dips, perhaps you could consider these.
This is from my website, perhaps it will help you match the symptoms to a remedy. It would help you a lot to visit the site, which is www.caninecaregroup.net and read the Holistic Health topic which explains about the Immune System and a ton of other things that may just guide you through this until we can get some remedies to you.
If you can start giving him doses of Echinaceah or Astragalus which you can get from a health store, it will make a start in building up his immune system.


Follicular Mange

This form of mange attacks young animals under one year
although the effects may be noticed at a later stage. There are two main
types in this condition

Squamous and 2. Pustular, depending on the ages
of skin attacked, whilst the type of skin also plays a part. A weak immune
system is also a cause.
The mite is the cause and there is a predisposition to the disease
congenitally.


Squamous type - hair follicles are attacked by the mite, which also
inhabits the neighbouring sebaceous glands. The hair soon falls out giving a
bald appearance over a wide area of skin, although smaller areas may also be
affected. Corrugation of the skin is the outcome together with dryness and
scariness whilst a bluish discoloration develops over the bare patches.
Pruritus is generally absent.
2. Pustular type - in the form the hair follicles become the seat of small
pustules most often seen around the mouth, outer elbow and hock and in the
auxiliary region. Extension of lesions leads to the development of small
fistulae, which secrete Pustular material.
Treatment.


Type 1


Sulphur 30c - a good general remedy which alters the conditions favourable
to the development of the mite. Dose on twice daily for a week.


Kali.Arsen.30c - suitable for more advanced cases, which begin to show
corrugation of the skin. The animal may be restless and seek warmth


Lycopodium 1M - this remedy will help stimulate growth of hair provided the
disease is not too far advanced and destruction of hair follicles has taken
place. Dose one daily for one week.


Type 2


- possess a powerful action on purulent infections of hair
follicles. In this potency will abort the pustular process. Dose one daily
for one week.


Kali. Arsen 30c - as for type 1


Silica 30c - a useful remedy for those cases showing extension of lesions
into fistulae dose one daily for five days


Calc.Sulph.6c - this is also a useful remedy for healing Pustular lesions,
with small yellowish scabs. Dose one three times daily for three days


Mezereum 6c - a remedy which is more useful when the lesions are chiefly on
the head or face. Small scabs coalesce and cover purulent areas. Dose one
twice daily for one week.


Thallium Acetas 30c - Thallium in potency possesses the power of obviating
the effects of trophic lesions on the skin and subcutaneous tissues. It
thus encourages growth of hair on denuded areas and is suitable for long
term remedy in both forms of mange. Dose one twice weekly for one month.


Also, use Bach Remedies Crab Apple and Hawthorn for approx. 4 - 6 weeks or
stop when you see an improvement if before then.
You can also use Aloe Vera, garlic, parsley, wormwood, and cloves.
The basic problem is poor immune system and the diet, which needs to be
totally preservative free. Use garlic raw in the food up to 2 cloves.



Here's a herbal treatment - demodex can be hard to get rid but if the dog
is in general good health including natural raw diet, plenty of exercise
and daily grooming this is worth a try.
"Save all used lemon halves and place in a gallon container, at least 24
halves to the gallon. Place the jar or container in the hot sunlight or
pour hot water over the lemon. let the lemon remain in the water until
pieces begin to turn mouldy, then remove and replace with fresh ones,
squeezing hard the old ones into the water. Do not throw away any of the
old lemon water which then remains. Rub the lemon potion into all parts of
the dog's body to expel the skin vermin. When pomegranates are available,
the peel can be added to this lemon lotion with great advantage. Use the
skins from three pomegranates to every nine lemons. (keep jar covered with
a paper top -not greased paper)"

For the demodectic mange I would suggest using a lemon tonic that you
can make at home.

1 lemon whole lemon sliced thinly
1 pint water
bring water to near boil add lemons,
let steep overnight. Sponge on once a day.

The above recipe comes from the book by Dr. Pitcairn (I can never remember the title)

Below is how to prepare the treatment for the skin wash.

This "recipe" by Pitcairn has worked for me in order to treat very
different kinds of skin problems. Since there are a few out ther,
thought I might send it along (from Pitcairn&Pitcairn "Natural health
for Dogs&Cats"):

- Slow boil in a liter of water 4 lemon skins (I squeeze the juice
for lemonade) for about 20 min.
- Let it cool down for about 1 hour
- Put it in a closed container and leave it a couple of days (for the
natural oils to "dissolve"... I think that there is some kind of
rotting going on as well, which helps quite a bit)
- Strain it into a squieting bottle
- Squirt freely over damaged skin (sounds crazy, but actually soothes
quite a bit and the D-limonene helps in skin recovery)

You start seeing results in about 6 days in my experience. I added my
personal touch: 4 teabags of chamomille in the boiling water.



cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 14, 2003, 7:51 AM


Views: 34023
Re: [ginl] Mange

Hi Gina,

Thanks for posting this up! I told u the other day it's very mah farn but I'll try the lemon tonic this weekend. Your Ah Cuit want or not? hehe when it's all mouldy and yucky u can come tapau some for him Tongue

Looks like this weekend will be a busy one for me - fermented lemon tonic la, coconut water la, natural food la, vet visit la, bathing & grooming la etc. Btw, I'm going to get 'the' herbal thing to mix in to his food liao. Hopefully it will help with his air growtn. His left eye is almost all botak all around. Pink eyelids. Sigh Unsure

but what to do, baby is sick mummy has to nurse him back Smile Luckily got all these kind ppl who shares all the remedies for Sparkle.

kam seah!


ginl
ALPHA


Aug 14, 2003, 8:00 AM


Views: 34021
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Actually it doesn't turn visibly mouldy if u hv it in a sealed bottle container....if u don't close the lid properly then it'll turn really mouldy and disgusting and utterly gross! Experienced that once and I wanted to pengsan Crazy so make sure u close it properly Tongue

Hope Sparkle will get well soon Smile


htpol
Novice

Aug 14, 2003, 10:17 PM


Views: 34013
Re: [cshellz] Mange

cshellz,

Yes! I can say that my dog has fully recovered. The hair has growth back and I didn't see any skin lesion since I have stopped applying the spray for 45 days. The pet shop owner advised to keep on spray for maintenance but as you know we are lazy to do that since we have no more trouble on it. Unless the problem has recurred. So far, I have settled the ticks problem and I believed that is the main reason caused the skin problem on my dog. I will give you a report for the experience exchange if there is the case of recurring.


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 14, 2003, 10:23 PM


Views: 34010
Re: [htpol] Mange

Hi htpol, Smile

glad ur dog is ok now. I will be trying out some homeopathic stuff suggested by some of the members. I will also report as we progress. Hope I have nothing but good news to share..


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 16, 2003, 12:27 AM


Views: 33995
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Hi ...

Was just reading some of your postings on Sparkle ... both on this thread and other threads ... it does seem that you are trying a lot of different things over a short period of time ...

But from what I gather from your postings, Sparkle does not appear to be improving ... *sigh*...

Sometimes when we become anxious ... we try too hard (including myself ... been there, done that Crazy ) and we change or try too many things all at once ... In so doing, we can unknowingly stress out the dog (physically & mentally) and ... not so good neh ...

Often, with skin conditions, finding the source of the problem is more a question of elimination rather than direct diagnosis ... and by changing too many elements at the same time ... we inadvertantly make it difficult to determine the root cause ...

Given Sparkle's condition as you describe it "... His left eye is almost all botak all around. Pink eyelids ..." If this is after 4 weeks of visiting the vet, and 4 weeks of treatment ... it might be an idea to seek a second opinion from another vet ...

Here's wishing Sparkle gets well soon ...


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 16, 2003, 9:56 AM


Views: 33984
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

hi surchinmy,

yeah, I do agree...I think I'm beginning to get a little paranoid. Unsure But it's very saddening to see a dog (especially if it's mine) in a condition like this. I've browsed through the internet and I've seen some dogs with more severe problems caused by mange.....but still, nothing like seeing it on your own baby.

I have thought about seeking a second opinion. However I'm afraid that would cause further stress to my dog. You see, the vet I go to now has been seeing Sparkle since his second vaccination. He's seen and treated his past skin problems. And also he's seen Sparkle's condition over the last month. He chose to avoid jabs and medication and suggested stuff like changing kibbles and all that to try see if it was some other cause. I'm just afraid that if I take Sparkle to another vet now, he wouldnt be able to understand his problem well enough to treat him properly. You are right about the stress part. My intention was to avoid that...well at least I try to Frown

I understand that I should also try eliminate stuff to find the root of the cause. I started doing that from the very beginning. But this time it isn't a normal skin problem anymore....not an allergy. From what I've read Mange are caused by mites and why some dogs get it is because they are stressed (environmentally or physically) or when their immune system is weak. So the only way to cure this is to 1) Get rid of the pesky mites. 2) Build up his immunity.

Anyway I spoke to the vet last night and we have both agreed to send Sparkle to his clinic for the dip. Discussed the homeopathic treatments with him and he's been encouraging. He said that if that can work we can reduce the number of times for the dips as the chemicals are strong. The vet also suggested I leave Sparkle there because he's worried that I can't do it myself. So, what I can do at home is prepare the lemon tonic suggested by Gina while I leave Sparkle at the clinic lor...

Actually I asked around a lot but I haven't done anything to him yet until I've discussed with the vet. I need to do some homework and get opinions before I use it on him mah....I'm also worried I'll do the wrong thing.Pirate So now that we've worked out a 'plan' I hope to see results real soon. Meanwhile, I've been giving him supplements like Nutricoat, Brewers Yeast & Garlic, Cod Liver Oil, Vitamin C, Echinacea & Astragalus plus Beta Carotene. Hehe...also coconut water and barley water Smile I dunno if it's because of all these stuff that his problems are not spreading all over. If you don't look at his face and front legs, he still has a very nice coat on his body. Very unlike the 'sample' pictures of the doggies I see on the Internet. But once u look at his eye then different story la....Unimpressed

It really helps to have a forum like this. I really learn a lot from the members who contribute! Anyway, I value your comments and suggestions. I will be posting up here about Sparkle's condition when there's a difference or when I'm trying something new. Please feel free to comment! Cool Hopefully through this 'case study' other members in the future would have a good place for reference if their dogs face the same problem Smile


ginl
ALPHA


Aug 16, 2003, 10:56 PM


Views: 33969
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Michelle, where'd you buy the Astragalus? I've tried to look for them before but cudn't find em Unsure


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 17, 2003, 7:05 AM


Views: 33960
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Hi ...

Sparkle has a good owner & friend Smile ... Can understand your reluctance about changing vets for Sparkle ... The lemon solution is good, have used it before and it helps ... Have also had to deal with Demo Mange - so if you need to discuss anything - just write ...

Here's wishing Sparkle & you all the best ... Get well soon Sparkle ...


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 17, 2003, 9:10 AM


Views: 33953
Re: [ginl] Mange

tell u when I see u ok?


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 17, 2003, 9:14 AM


Views: 16738
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

hello surchinmy,

thanks for your concern and well wishes for Sparkle Smile Sparkle will be going for his first dip tomorrow. I'll be using the lemon solution on him too....plus some other herbs to help him get through this.

I didn't know so many had experiences with demo mange!! Anyway, I will post up when there's changes in him...

thanks again yah...hopefully when sparkle is well we'll see you at the next gathering. Then Sparkle can give you his thank you licks personally...Wink


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 17, 2003, 11:58 PM


Views: 16734
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Hi ...

Just a thought ... if the vet is applying the "medicated dip" on Sparkle - then maybe, do not do the "lemon solution" just yet ...

You need to let the "medicated dip" to stay on Sparkle for some days for the dip to work. Using the lemon solution to soon may wash away the medicated dip ...

Think a lot of doggies have demo mange ... just that many of us didn't know how to recognise it before ...

Once again ... all the best ...
Cheers


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 18, 2003, 6:50 AM


Views: 16731
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Hi surchinmy, Smile

Sparkle went for his first dip today. Thanks for pointing that out. You're right about it....so now I'll just store it in an air tight container as suggested by Gina and keep it in the fridge until he's done with all his dips.

Yah, many don't know what Mange is. I didn't know what it was exactly before this too....but hopefully from our discussion here more will know about its symptoms and will be aware on the cures and prevention for Mange Smile


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 18, 2003, 9:50 AM


Views: 16723
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Hi ...

just one more little thing ... after the medicated dip ... try not to let Sparkle use his mouth to scratch himself ... some dips are best not ingested (check with the vet) ...

*gosh* starting to sound like a nag ... Laugh ...

All the best to Sparkle ...


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 18, 2003, 4:49 PM


Views: 16719
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

haha...i thought so too so I decided to keep the e-collar on him. Prevents him from licking himself and from scratching.

bad news is last night when I fed him (had to hand feed him cause he just wouldn't eat or move much) he threw up everything after that. Including his antibiotics Unsure So after that he just didn't want to eat anymore.....i gave him some glucose water

Good news is this morning his eyes are not so inflammed and not in such an ugly fierce red colour...it's more pinkish now. Cool

Hopefully he gets through this fast....and thanks for your well wishes Wink


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 18, 2003, 5:53 PM


Views: 16718
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Oh ... sorry to hear that about Sparkle ...

Am sure you are monitoring Sparkle closely ... he is a young & small fella ...

Sparkle's reaction can be caused by so many things ... from a bad reaction to the antibiotic to his accidentally ingesting the dip or a combination ... etc ... very hard to say without seeing Sparkle ...

Many dips are by themselves poisons ... concentration & application has to be carefully monitored ... The effect of a dip depends on age/size of dog etc ... some dip solutions can be very strong ... and again depending on skin condition, may be absorbed ...

Neeways ... email if you wish to discuss anything ...

Keeping Sparkle in our thoughts ...


ginl
ALPHA


Aug 18, 2003, 8:45 PM


Views: 16708
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Hey Michelle....sorry to hear about him throwing up but very good that his eye is looking much better than before! Pls keep us posted, hopefully he'll get much better by this weekend so you won't need to go for that 2nd dip.


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 18, 2003, 9:59 PM


Views: 16705
Re: [ginl] Mange

YAh hopefully it keeps getting better...but today he's still refusing to eat. This morning don't want to eat. Then my mum fed him later he also don't want to eat. Don't want to drink glucose water also. Only ate apples.

I hope he doesn't need the 2nd dip also. Poor little thing. If you minus the fluffy fur he's actually very tiny u know...see him like this damn kek sim ler...

How's Ah Cuit's condition? Any better today?


ginl
ALPHA


Aug 18, 2003, 10:11 PM


Views: 16704
Re: [cshellz] Mange

This morning still got the bumps on his back...will monitor him and see lor whether they'll subside this few days Unsure

I wanna rename him to "Garbage" liao Crazy


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 18, 2003, 11:31 PM


Views: 16702
Re: [ginl] Mange

aiyooo.....always tau sek until the mum has to 'koi seng' for him. Shocked

Dun worry la I'm sure once his body 'removes' the unwanted substance that's causing the bumps and pus it'll go. After all Ah Cuit takes so much stuff to 'pou' himself.

Use the lemon tonic thingy on him again lor...maybe it'll help. Sighhh doggies with skin problems very kesian ler...always going through one problem after another


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 19, 2003, 5:29 PM


Views: 16696
Re: [ALL] Mange

Good news!!

Sparkle looks better this morning! At least now he can open his eyes properly liao (before his eyes were swollen so it was hard to open). He's still sleeping a lot which I think is good for him cause I think when he's awake he's feeling itchy. But he's a little more active now. Can jump and wag his tail with me this morning. I'm seeing more life coming back now...SmileSmile

The parts affected are now slowly drying up. The vet called to ask about him yesterday and he said that if he's recovering well he wants to skip the second dip. But still have to let him have a look this weekend

Well I think Sparkle's a strong little doggie. Even though he has no energy to get up to greet us he still wags his tail when he sees us. Cool


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 19, 2003, 6:48 PM


Views: 16693
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Well done Sparkle ... keep going okay ... Smile


ginl
ALPHA


Aug 20, 2003, 9:24 AM


Views: 16688
Re: [cshellz] Mange

That's wonderful news Michelle! Wow within a few days can see such difference that is really good....before you know it Sparkle will be back to his old fluffy self again Cool


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 20, 2003, 4:45 PM


Views: 16682
Re: [ginl] Mange

thanks gina! Cool Yeah we miss seeing that fluffy thing following us wherever we go...but it's going to be soon I hope. Today his eyes looks better than yesterday too..

And his appetite is back. Been giving him natural stuff. Chicken liver and chicken breast mixed with the 'wholesome herbs' Wink And a little kibble. Still continuing with the Echinacea & Astragalus, Brewer's Yeast and Nutricoat.

how's ah cuit coming along?


ginl
ALPHA


Aug 20, 2003, 5:10 PM


Views: 16680
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Ah Cuit is ok too....bumps are almost gone, most of them hv dried up and now he is known as Crusty the Garbage Dog Laugh

So you hv started feeding raw? How was it for you and for him? Did he like the raw necks and did u manage to look at him eat without feeling grossed out? Tongue


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 20, 2003, 8:54 PM


Views: 16675
Re: [ginl] Mange

yay!! Good for Crusty...opps...I mean Ah Cuit Wink

I tried to feed raw but cannot la!!!!! Wahlau when I first held the chicken & pork liver I almost passed out!! It was like a chunk of gross red stuff with blood!! ARGHHHH i cannot forget that look!! I was holding the cold slimy geli stuff and the blood started dripping from my hands.......CrazyUnsure And I kept thinking....this was from a dead animal...u're holding the INSIDES of a chicken/pig!!

Like that how to feed??? Unsure

So what I do now is I use a plastic bag to hold the liver and dump the whole piece to a pot of hot water and I'll use kitchen scissors to cut it into tiny chunks. Only when it's quite cooked i'll use a spoon to scoop it up. Not so eeky like that. But it's medium rare la....hahaha not fully cooked can still see some blood Tongue

I have not started on chicken neck yet cause he was weak and didn't seem like he can chew. So I only gave him the liver and chicken breast. As for the breast, the raw meat smells ler....so I didn't give like that also. I steamed the breast meat with garlic and then campur with the cut up liver.

Served hot garnished with kibbles. Cool Sprinkle with the 'herbs' to make it more nutritious and then a dash of Nutrigel here and there.

Voila! And Little Sparkle loves it! kekekeke


Riccaval
ALPHA


Aug 20, 2003, 9:57 PM


Views: 16671
Re: [cshellz] Mange

SmileMichelle, glad to hear that Sparkle is getting better. The herbs that you are talking abt , is it the same one that I know. How much are you giving to him? and is the new hair really sprouting?
Appreciate the feedback. ThanksCool


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 20, 2003, 11:58 PM


Views: 16670
Re: [Riccaval] Mange

Hi Derrick Smile

Yes, it is! I give him one scoop (with the scoop given) everyday with his meals.

He was abit suspicious at the beginning and sniffed at his food for a long long time but I guess when he's hungry he has no choice but to take it all in! hehe

Yah, I see new hair sprouting here and there. Cool He looks like a chicken with the hair half pulled out (can imagine ah??) cause it's growing here and there and it's white summore! kekeke

When everything's more 'formal' u can be sure to hear more about it....Wink

Thanks Derrick!!


JolinG
Doggyman


Aug 21, 2003, 11:50 AM


Views: 16661
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Winkwow...so glad to hear sparkl all better lar

at least can open his eyes and all

u still wearing the e-collar for him arh?Wink

n the way u mention the 'herbs' so funny lar..ehehhe


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 21, 2003, 8:02 PM


Views: 16658
Re: [JolinG] Mange

aiks Lona punya face pulak....hehe very cute ler!!

yep he's still wearing the lampshade Frown Takut he scratch


jaz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 21, 2003, 8:54 PM


Views: 16656
Re: [cshellz] Mange

I've heard once that they pour kerosene on it!!! OUCH!!!!


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 21, 2003, 8:59 PM


Views: 16655
Re: [jaz] Mange

yah I know. I've had ppl advising me to ppour engine oil too Crazy


wlaiwan
Dog Kichi


Aug 21, 2003, 9:34 PM


Views: 16652
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Hi there

I have been following this thread.... I have had similar experiences with Sidnee.

She had mange and was prescribed dips every week. However, she reacted adversely to the dips. Probably due to the stress put on her. Her mange became worse and I had to shave her. Next she was on daily wipes with diluted Tahtic solution. It seemed to control her situation but at the same time I noticed her skin was turning hard. She was one unhappy fellow.Frown

The medicine (antibiotics etc) were making her drowsy, she slept day and night - not even a single woof from her. When she is awake, she seemed so blurr.

In the end, I took her entirely off medication and tried the lemon tonic mentioned in this thread. At the same time, I slowly introduce her to probiotics and fresh food. I blend all her veges (to aid digestion) and feed her raw meat. Recovery was slow but definite. Now she is mange free and from her last visit to the vet, she has been given a clean bill of health.

Yes, ocassionally I still see some bumps here and there, but she is happy now and she smells better. No more bad odour -urgh! the smell of demodex.

So, from what I see, adding fresh food helps a lot. A few weeks ago, Sidnee had diarrhea and the skin on her tail errupted again. I tried ointment recommended by vet for 2 days, no result. Then I squeeze some fresh lemon drops on her tail and viola! the next morning it dried up.

Maybe you want to give it a try?

Take Care
Regards from
wlaiwan, sidnee[wow], shino[woof] + rufus[grrrr]

(This post was edited by wlaiwan on Aug 21, 2003, 9:42 PM)


JolinG
Doggyman


Aug 21, 2003, 10:00 PM


Views: 16646
Re: [cshellz] Mange

ehheBlushWink thank u say she cute...better take from dad n put under my name first b4 he rampas..

oh lucky u din poor engine oil n kerosene...sound so dangerous lar

after he lick then how?...sumoe if accidently caught sparks then how also....FrownUnsure dunwanna think bout it


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 21, 2003, 10:01 PM


Views: 16646
Re: [wlaiwan] Mange

Well done ... Laugh ... Think you did a wonderful job on your doggie ...

We are also very relucatant to use dips ... It seems a little odd that we are told to use gloves because the dip is "poisonous" and then we have to pour this "poison" all over our dogs ... *argh* ...

What kind of probiotics are you using? ...

Once again ... well done ...

Cheers


jaz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 22, 2003, 1:33 AM


Views: 16435
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Wah lau... but does it really works?? I think it's really not save to do so lor....


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 22, 2003, 1:58 AM


Views: 16433
Re: [ginl, cshellz] Mange

Great news all round ... good to hear all the doggies improving ... SmileSmileSmile

cheers


ginl
ALPHA


Aug 22, 2003, 5:03 AM


Views: 16429
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Thanks....mine wasn't that severe....it was coz he had a fun time ransacking the garbage that's why Crazy


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 22, 2003, 7:49 AM


Views: 16423
Re: [ALL] Mange

Hi all ...

Hope the "Lemon Tonic" ... works for everyone ... but just in case ... here are some homeopathic alternatives to combat Dermo Mange:

1. Herbs for Pets – Mary L Wulf-Tilford & Gregory L Tilford

Dermodectic mange, or red mange (genus Demodex) is a mite that infects hair follicles, often causing hair loss and a foul-smelling bacterial infection of the skin … Fortunately, herbal measures can be quite effective against various forms of mange. The foremost herb to consider is garlic. Mites don’t tolerate sulphur compounds and garlic contains hundreds of them (which is why garlic smells like it does).

Using olive oil as a base … add garlic oil and Vitamin E oil … (make sure its not too concentrated or it may cause irritation), and apply to affected areas.

2. Veterinarians’ Guide to Natural Remedies – Martin Zucker

Neem oil: Use a washcloth soaked in warm water to cleanse the affected areas. Then gently rub the Neem oil into the skin morning and evening. Caution: Do not use the Neem oil around the eyes.

3. The Complete Herbal Handbook for the Dog & Cat – Juliette de Bairacli Levy

Slice up about 20 cloves of garlic and finely cut 2 handfuls of elder leaves & stalks. Place all in a pan with one quart of cold water. Bring to a boil, and simmer slowly for half an hour. Keep covered throughout. Remove from heat. Do not strain. Allow to brew for at beast 7 hours, still keeping covered.

The lotion is then ready for use. Soak large pieces of cotton or towelling in the brew and friction the entire body very well. 2 or 3 tablespoons of the brew can also be given internally early morning and at night.

Homeopathic Care for Cats & Dogs - Don Hamilton DVM says: "Conventional treatment calls for even stronger chemical (dips) than that used for sarcoptic mange. These chemicals deplete the immune system even more. I believe this is part of the reason for failure of the treatment. The answer is in building up the immune system. Fresh raw foods are essential."

Cheers Smile


ginl
ALPHA


Aug 22, 2003, 8:08 AM


Views: 16419
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Hey Surchinmy....thanks for yet another remedy for mange....garlic seems to be the weapon for all things bad huh.....i read about the neem oil too...not sure where we can get those? I've given neem supplements before though.


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 22, 2003, 8:23 AM


Views: 16417
Re: [ginl] Mange

Hello ... Smile ...

Yeaps ... galic is amazing ... protects from mange to vampires ... Laugh ... Haven't tried the garlic remedy though ... its kinda difficult hugging a dog that smells like its soaked in a pasta sauce ... Smile ... but I do like the lemon tonic ...

Some chemists stock Neem soap (can probably use that when bathing the doggies) ... but have not seen Neem oil ... Since Neem oil/tree comes from India, maybe you can find Neem oil in a aruvedic store/centre ... or one of the shops in Brickfields or Masjid India ... will have a look see next time I am around those areas ...


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 22, 2003, 5:42 PM


Views: 16408
Re: [wlaiwan] Mange

hi wlaiwan,

Sorry to hear about your doggie. Must have been a stressful time for u. Frown

yeah it did smell bad right? Initially I thought it was his ears and I cleaned them everyday but the smell just wouldn't go away!! glad to say he's starting to smell like a puppy again..

My puppy had his first dip last week. No choice, it was so bad his whole eye was swollen and he couldn't open much and it bled. But anyway, he's shown prograssive progress since last weekend. The vet is trying to avoid the second dip. If he skips it this weekend, i'll use the lemon solution (which has been sitting in my fridge).

I have started to give him chicken neck and liver mixed with a little kibbles plus a lot of supplements and herbs. I think the diet helps because I see new hair here and there already so I'm hopeful he's heading towards a speedy recovery.

Thanks for the advise. Been getting a lot of positive feedbacks on the lemon so I will definitely use it Smile


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 22, 2003, 5:44 PM


Views: 16407
Re: [jaz] Mange

eeeyerrr I dare not try ler. Engine oil wor....Pirate Even if it works, Sparkle is WHITE Unsure To wash engine oil from our hands also so susah liao. Can u imagine me washing the engine oil off his white fur??? LaughLaughTongue hehehe....


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 22, 2003, 5:48 PM


Views: 16406
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

hi surchinmy

Thanks for another suggestion Smile I cannot imagine my furkid walking around smelling like garlic ler (i'm starting to imagine the skunks in cartoons, when they walk pass they leave a trail of 'smoke' which is actually their odour)

If they take it orally can ah? I feed Sparkle with raw garlic cloves and brewers yeast with Garlic. Also I now steam his chicken breast with garlic also.

What is Neem actually? Leaves? Flowers?


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 22, 2003, 6:28 PM


Views: 16400
Re: [cshellz, ginl] Mange

Hi ...

cshellz: Yeaps ... can imagine little Sparkle walking down the corridor and everyone shying away because of the smell ... CrazyTongueLaugh ...

Garlic crushed given orally is good for dogs ... just be a little careful ... not too much (depending on size) maybe 2 or 3 times a week ought to be sufficient ... too much garlic can upset the doggie ...

Neem is a tree, originates from India where its been recognised & used for ages as part of ayurvedic practice ... Apparently the entire tree is useful from bark to leaves, to seeds ... essentially recognised as a pest inhibitor ... presumably also removes/kills mites ...

Am thinking of trying out some Neem products ... will let you guys know if it's effective ...

ginl: ... Forgot to mention ...Crazy... you can find loads of Neem products on the internet ...

Salt rinse: Also forgot to mention (really getting old ...Crazy) ... salt solution ... During a shower, after completing the last rinse ... we rinse the doggies with a warm salt solution (we use sea-salt) - gently rubbing into the skin ... a mild salt solution is a very gentle & mild antiseptic ... and this helps reducing itching, heals minor cuts and keeps their skin healthy ...

Cheers all ...


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 22, 2003, 6:39 PM


Views: 16401
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

I give 1 small clove about twice a week to Sparkle. Smile

Hey salt rinse! Which reminds me...when I was young and had chicken pox, my mum used to soak me in the Deep Sea salts. Very very nice ler....esp when body is itchy. Maybe that can help him too. But i'll only use if when doc announces that he doesn't need dip #2. What say u? Smile

Oh, how about seawater? U think that's advisable?


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 22, 2003, 7:50 PM


Views: 16395
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Hello ...

For Sparkle's size - one clove twice a week sounds about right ... maybe try 3 times a week for 2 weeks - to build up, then reduce back to twice a week ...

Yeah, salt rinse sheoook!!! neh Laugh ... very comforting Smile...

Many people swear by sea water ... but the sea near us isn't all that clean anymore ...Unsure... And if the sea is dirty, I'd probably want to rinse my dog in clean water after they play in the sea ... to get rid of the pollutants ...

Difference btwn lemon & salt solution: I think the basic difference between the lemon solution and salt solution is this ... the lemon solution can be astringent (strong) ... the salt solution is much more gentle ... so, we only use lemon when necessary ... For general care, we like the salt solution and even use salt solution to wipe paws & clean ears etc ...

You asked : ... But i'll only use if when doc announces that he doesn't need dip #2. What say u?

Actually, I guess I've been kinda hedging around the issue of the medicated dip for Sparkle ... It's so hard to say via posting ... afraid of miscommunicating & upseting you ... but I think I should try ... here goes ...

Please ... this is only my view & I don't mean to upset you or your vet ...

I would seriously consider whether or not to put Sparkle through another medicated dip ... maybe instead of the 2nd medicated dip ... go straight to the lemon solution and try that instead ... The medicated dip has made some improvement - good ... now try and let the homeopatic method take over ...

Ginl posted 2 methods of preparing the lemon solution (one stronger & one milder) … maybe you can use the stronger preparation first … observe carefully … if there is improvement and the improvement continues – then switch to the milder solution …

Juliette de Bairacli Levy's method from "The Complete Herbal Handbook for the Dog & Cat": This is a stronger preparation.

"Save all used lemon halves and place in a gallon container, at least 24 halves to the gallon. Place the jar or container in the hot sunlight or pour hot water over the lemon. let the lemon remain in the water until pieces begin to turn mouldy, then remove and replace with fresh ones, squeezing hard the old ones into the water. Do not throw away any of the old lemon water which then remains. Rub the lemon potion into all parts of the dog's body to expel the skin vermin. When pomegranates are available, the peel can be added to this lemon lotion with great advantage. Use the skins from three pomegranates to every nine lemons. (keep jar covered with a paper top -not greased paper)"

*** I think Juliette recommends paper top because the mixture needs air (oxygen) to ferment & for the d-limonene, which is a cleansing oil, to dissolve into the water …

Pircairn's method ... for preparing the lemon solution is the mild solution.

"1 lemon whole lemon sliced thinly ... bring 1 pint water to near boil add lemons, let steep overnight. Sponge on once a day."



I think what wlaiwan did was so good … It would be lovely to get Sparkle well without the chemicals, medicated dips are poisons, and depending on what/how its being used, can be very strong … this is especially a concern when the doggie is young & still growing … the lemon solution is natural and less toxic … Smile

If the lemon solution and freshly prepared food doesn't work ... then okay ... you have no choice ... use the medicated dips ...

Cheers …


ginl
ALPHA


Aug 22, 2003, 9:02 PM


Views: 16392
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

The last time when his skin got really bad (that's when i got the holistic remedy) i gave him a lot of supplements...i wasnt even sure that i was overdosing him or not but out of desperation i gave what i cud give and what was available at that time....i was giving him the lemon bath daily, neem alternating with dandelion supplements, chlorella, echinacea + antioxidants, swedish bitter, bach flower remedy of crab apple, Velcote for skin n coat and on top of that he was on homeopathic meds, Sulphur 30c and Lycopodium 1M.....he got much better after 2 weeks Smile

Now i'm only giving him velcote, swedish bitter and the 'magical herbs' that was mentioned in here and on and off he will also hv breakouts but not as severe as before.

Oh but before all this he was on dips....baaaddd stuff....each dip he was on a sedation stage for the next 2 to 3 days.


(This post was edited by ginl on Aug 22, 2003, 9:04 PM)


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 22, 2003, 10:01 PM


Views: 16385
Re: [ginl] Mange

... Oh yes ... know exactly what you mean ... dip the dog ... and then for next couple of days ... the dog is like ... "blur blur" ... And I felt so bad I refused to wear gloves ... if my doggie kena, I kena also lar ... (kinda stupid but what else to do ... Unsure) ... So now no more dips, no more steroids etc ... Explained to our vets, and they agree ... even providing vets with alternative remedies for dermo mange ... Tongue ...

Now, just feed good food, make sure floor is clean (all floor shampoo properly rinsed off) ... rinse/wipe with salt solution regularly ... and ... taaaa daaaah ... everything much better ... *touch wood*...


wlaiwan
Dog Kichi


Aug 22, 2003, 10:04 PM


Views: 16385
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Hie there

Thanks a lot. I am still working on her well being -every now and then I have to deal with recurring skin problems, eye tearing etc. But I see that she is more active and happier then she ever was. That's very comforting.

Yes, think about it.. We have to wear gloves and it's okay on our doggies? No way right? I am sure I don't want my doggie to smell of chemical.

Irresponsible in-breeding has resulted in compromised immune system on the poor fellow. So I am learning whatever I can to equip myself when the need arises.

Hmm do you have any remedies for excessive tearing? Sidnee has this persistent problem with her eyes - it went away for a while but these days I see signs of recurrence. Also, it's redish.

Oh yes, probiotics. I put her on OMX (for human consumption) when I first started and recently her vet recommended BioBuster. She seems to be doing well on this. Are you using any probiotics on your doggies?

What about supplements?

Cheers
wlaiwan , sidnee, shino + rufus


wlaiwan
Dog Kichi


Aug 22, 2003, 10:14 PM


Views: 16384
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Hie

Yes, it was very stressful. And she was only 4 months old then. I just got her from a pet store and not even 2 weeks, she had all these troubles. On hindsight, I knew now why she smelt when I got her. But she recovered fast - even the vet told me he was surprised. Initially they predicted a 6-month recovery period after checking her. And the strong girl managed it in 2 months Cool .

The lemon solution works very well. Now I use it on her every 2 to 3 days. If you see any new signs of mange or those stubborn parts, use fresh lemon juice. Undiluted, it works very well. And your doggie smells nice after that Smile

Do keep us up with your progress.
Speedy recovery
wlaiwan, sidnee, shino + rufus


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 22, 2003, 10:26 PM


Views: 16383
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

hiya!

hehehe I should soak in the tub together with Sparkle!! Kill two birds with one stone! Tongue

I already prepared the mild solution. It's now sitting in the fridge because Gina reminded me that he's already been dipped so washing with the lemon solution would mean washing all the stuff off. This weekend is his 6th weeks in a row visit to the vet. I have discussed with the vet on the phone about his progress and he's very supportive of skipping the second dip. In fact he was reluctant with the first one too but I guess Sparkle's condition was very bad at that time.

So hopefully this weekend Sparkle will rely entirely on the lemon solutions.

Like Gina I'm also giving Sparkle Sulphur 30c. Still continuing with Echinecea & Astragalus, Cod Liver Oil, Nutricoat, Brewers Yeast & Garlic, Licorice, Vitamin C, Multi Carotene and the 'magical herbs' hehehe...

I'm adding the supplements on very small dosage so I presume it's ok.

It's only been less than 1 week after his dip and I must say I'm very happy with his progress!! I see new hair sprouting every day Cool


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 22, 2003, 10:30 PM


Views: 16383
Re: [ginl] Mange

how does sweedish bitter taste like? Bitter? Ah cuit will take it ah? Shocked

ya lor the dips. BAD Mad If only I got a confirmation on his condition or if only I knew more about the tell tale signs earlier I could have prevented it Frown

He was like high for 3 days. Turn on some rave music, dim the lights and put some flashing lights I think he'd start to feng tau Unimpressed


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 22, 2003, 10:39 PM


Views: 16377
Re: [wlaiwan] Mange

hi there Smile

Will keep the fresh lemon juice in mind Smile hehe I think he'll smell like the he'd just been washed with lemon scented dish washing liquid LaughLaugh

It's not easy having a dog with problematic skin huh? I've had to deal with Sparkle's skin condition(S) many many times already and he's only coming to 7 months old. Pirate

Have you tried to massage Sidnee's tear ducts? My pup had that problem too when he was younger and I read somewhere that if you massage their tear ducts it will help and it did for Sparkle!

Mind to tell us more about probiotics? I've heard of it but am quite clueless about it.....just like I'm still very new to Homeopathic stuff Unsure

What supplements do u give to ur furkids?


jaz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 22, 2003, 10:59 PM


Views: 16372
Re: [cshellz] Mange

True.. My dog use to like to sleep underneath the car.... once he's out... totally black in color man!!! ahahha!!! Smile


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 22, 2003, 11:40 PM


Views: 16368
Re: [wlaiwan, cshellz, ginl] Mange

Hi ...

You wrote: " ... Hmm do you have any remedies for excessive tearing? Sidnee has this persistent problem with her eyes - it went away for a while but these days I see signs of recurrence. Also, it's reddish."

Some breeds tend to tear more then others & some breeds are more prone to eye conditions. Sorry ... not sure if you mentioned it before, but what is Sidnee's breed? ...

Most eye conditions I have come across are usually the result of environmental factors ... allergies and such that causes the eye to tear. Check Sidnee's eyes ... (leave the redness aside for the moment) ...

Are the corneas clear? ... And what kind of discharge? ...

If the corneas are generally clear and the discharge is also clear ... then the condition may not be serious ...

If Sidnee is producing a watery eye discharge (not thick, yellow or pus-like) ... then his eyes may just need cleaning regularly. Some animals have tear overflow caused by blocked tear ducts or mild allergies. Try cleaning the eyes twice a day with a warm solution of salt water. The salt solution is a very mild disinfectant ... and is great for general care.

If the discharge is thick or yellow then that may be sign of infection and you really need a vet ... Eye problems can be serious and early treatment required.

Will do more checking and let you know if I find anything else.

Probiotics: *Ah* ... will check out this OMX thingy, thanks ... I use probiotics too but from a more basic source ... I give the doggies "Vitagen" ... and natural yoghurt ... both of which have useful bacteria good for the digestive system ...

Supplements: Have a word with cshellz or ginl ... they use a brand of herbal supplement that I find very good ... and this brand produces a really wide range of supplements ... good quality & effective ...

But generally, I am also trying to balance the diet so that supplements are minimal ... I try to use natural supplements ... from reading and such, I think natural/homeopatic supplements are more readily absorbed by the doggies ...

You also wrote: " ... Irresponsible in-breeding has resulted in compromised immune system on the poor fellow ..."

*Aaaah* this is my next favourite gripe ... *Laugh ... cannot abide people who breed irresponsibly ... especially people who breed to sell for profit & don't really care ... they don't care what or how they breed, they don't care who they sell their dogs to, they don't care what happens to their puppies after ... they just don't care ...

> Cshellz: You wanna start new thread on this ... *LOL* ...

> Cshellz: "Like Gina I'm also giving Sparkle Sulphur 30c. Still continuing with Echinecea & Astragalus, Cod Liver Oil, Nutricoat, Brewers Yeast & Garlic, Licorice, Vitamin C, Multi Carotene and the 'magical herbs' hehehe ... I'm adding the supplements on very small dosage so I presume it's ok."

Smile ... hello hello ... is there any supplement for coat that you have left out? ... Ah yes ... evening primrose oil ... If you are not careful, Sparkle will look like a Komondor ... LaughLaughLaugh ...

But seriously, maybe too many different supplements at one time ... Smile ... even if you say you are giving in small dosage ... small dose of so many dosages become big dose ... maybe not so good ... and then also you won't know which supplement is really working ...

I would be careful with Vitamin C ... a dog' glandular system is different from ours, we cannot produce our own vitamin C - dogs can.

Quote: "Supplemental vitamin C has been clinically tested and proven to cause problems. One test conducted in 1980, by Teare et al., showed that supplemental vitamin C can aggravate skeletal disease ... The test by Teare et al. is shown on page 38 in the US Government National Research Council's publication, Nutrient Requirements of Dogs - Revised 1985. That single NRC publication cites 24 test done with vitamin C and dogs. The 24 test were done to find out if dog food should contain any vitamin C. The conclusion the members of the National Research Council drew from all of those test was that dog food should not not contain any vitamin C."

Suggest you stick with the correct "magical herbs" & supplements to boost general immune system for the moment ... Don't worry about coat boosters ... let Sparkle concentrate on getting healthy & strong ... Smile ... once the immune system is strong ... then you can work out the supplements for the coat ...

Cheers all


ginl
ALPHA


Aug 23, 2003, 12:13 AM


Views: 16364
Re: [cshellz] Mange

It tastes like cough medicine Crazy.... Swedish Bitter contains a combination of herbs suggested to help cleanse the system, promote regularity, improve digestion, soothe the system, tone the liver, and increase energy. It can be used internally as well as externally....if you hv a cut or any external injury, application of swedish bitter will quicken the healing process. I only give him a few drops a day...by itself he doesnt like it but drop in his food doesnt make much difference to him so not a problem so far...i'm also taking it daily....it really helped me coz i used to get cold and flu quite easily but since taking it never had a cold at all even though someone elses has and comes near me Laugh


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 23, 2003, 12:32 AM


Views: 16362
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

They already have many threads talking about irresponsible breeding ler...check out "Breeding & Whelping" Smile

hehehe it does seem like Sparkle is one lucky dog eh? Everything also give!! Evening Primrose oil? no wor...didn't think of giving him that. hehe but I do give him Salmon Omega 3 once a week. Blush

Vitamin C I give every other day not everyday. And this is only temporary. You think I should stop? I mean, taking apples and fruits also got Vit C rite?

Sparkle look like a komondor? hehehe yah wait till his fine fur grows long enough then take him for dredlocks then maybe will start to resemble the komondor....kekekek LaughLaugh

btw, how do ppl take care of the komondor's coat??? Shocked


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 23, 2003, 12:36 AM


Views: 16360
Re: [ginl] Mange

ah cuit dead fish and rubbish also sapu, what's a few drops of weird tasting liquid?? he da man!! Cool


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 23, 2003, 12:47 AM


Views: 16356
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Yeaps, fruits & apples good enough ... better not to give vitamin-c supplement ... apparently it can cause skeletal problems, liver & kidney problems ... etc etc ... Check out this website ... http://home.att.net/~wdcusick/013.html ... never knew something like vit-c can be so deadly ... *Crazy*

Q: btw, how do ppl take care of the komondor's coat???

They don't ... the Komondor's coat tangles up naturally as it matures ... starts off straight and fine when puppy ... then as it grows older its starts to look like it has Whoopi Goldberg for a stepmother ... A Komondor owner told me that it takes 3 full days (in summer) to wash & dry his dog ... And we think we have coat problems ... *hah* ...


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 23, 2003, 7:04 PM


Views: 16899
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

ok ok...hehe thanks for the advice. Will remove vit C from Sparkle Cool

I dun like the komondor ler. I mean it'll be interesting seeing one white whoopi goldberg on 4 legs but I won't enjoy taking care of it! 3 full days?????? before u can rest after the 3 days it's time to go through it again. siao leh PirateAngelicTongue

Luckily sparkle now like that....hehehe


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 23, 2003, 9:02 PM


Views: 16894
Re: [cshellz] Mange

 
... But the good news is ... apparently, they only bathe the Komondor twice a year ... * Laugh


mackmack
Doggyman


Aug 23, 2003, 10:30 PM


Views: 16891
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

LOLCool


--I have Howling Bean and Lazy Mack.--


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 24, 2003, 7:18 PM


Views: 16881
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

BlushBlush hahahaha.................that's not too bad then!

hey surchinmy, sparkle is due for his check up today....let's see what the vet says about his condition. Hopefully no dips ler!! NO DIPS! NO DIPS! NO DIPS!!

Well update u later Cool


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 25, 2003, 12:12 AM


Views: 16877
Re: [cshellz] Mange

... Okay ... fingers crossed ... no more dips for Sparkle ... Smile ...


JolinG
Doggyman


Aug 25, 2003, 10:55 AM


Views: 16872
Re: [cshellz] Mange

heloooo michelle
so how ..wat did the vet say?
is he getting better?....i hope he is


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 25, 2003, 4:48 PM


Views: 16869
Re: [surchinmy, JolinG] Mange

hi guys,

Sparkle had to go for his second dip yesterday FrownFrownFrown The vet said he did look better but he's still losing fur on the leg areas so to be safe, dip one more time.

But surprisingly this time around he's very active after the dip and still have appetite and is still running and jumping around like a mad puppy Tongue


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 25, 2003, 5:26 PM


Views: 16866
Re: [cshellz] Mange

SmileSmileSmile ... very gald that Sparkle is not so "der der" with the 2nd dip ... could be because most of his open lesions have healed ... and he's not absorbing so much of the medication into his system ... but whatever the reason ... *yes*...

With all the good food & care ... think the little fella will only get better now ...

Well done ... Smile


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 25, 2003, 6:02 PM


Views: 16864
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

hi surchinmy,

thanks....hehehe u have been following sparkle's mange saga from beginning till end!! SmileSmile

Sparkle sends his puppy licks and barks! Tongue


wlaiwan
Dog Kichi


Aug 25, 2003, 7:18 PM


Views: 16860
Re: [cshellz] Mange

hie
> lemon scented dish washing liquid
Ya, fresh from the doggie washer Wink

Skin problems can be really hard to handle. And if you have other problems as well, it triples. Many months ago, someone from a pet store told me this:
"If you have a pet with skin problems, you have to deal with it for the rest of your pet's life"
Scarry huh?

Tear ducts? I don't think she will allow me to do that to her. Still, I am willing to try anything.

Probiotics are good bacteria. Just like the vitagen we drink or yoghurt. So probiotics is like vitagen to them. If we feed our furkids with only kibbles, over time, their digestion system will be weak. And it can in turn give rise to many problems. Especially if they have diarrhea or stomach upset then adding beneficial bacteria will help them as it restores the system.

I supplement my furkids with Velcote and 3 times a week, multi-vits. Ocassionally, if I see some burping, I throw in one half tablet of digestive enzyme. One clove of garlic once a week.

cheers
wlaiwan + sidnee + shino + rufus


(This post was edited by wlaiwan on Aug 25, 2003, 7:20 PM)


wlaiwan
Dog Kichi


Aug 25, 2003, 7:29 PM


Views: 16854
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Hie there

Oh, sorry for not mentioning it - Sidnee is a 14-month old female Pug. I see gel-ish whitish discharge every now and then and lately, her eyes are reddish. Corneas - negative, not clear.

I took her to the vet a few times, he advised me to apply ointment and monitor. Just that! I do not see much improvement. And I don't like applying ointment every night. She's no difference from a 'medicine pot' if I do that.

Can I use regular salt , add in water and wipe her eyes with that?

Sidnee, likes neither vitagen nor yoghurt. SO I have to find a capsule or some powder tht she can chew on or mixed to her food.


Quote

Have a word with cshellz or ginl ... they use a brand of herbal supplement that I find very good ... and this brand produces a really wide range of supplements ... good quality & effective ...

Cshellz/ginl can you tell me more about this herbal supplement?


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 25, 2003, 7:30 PM


Views: 16854
Re: [wlaiwan] Mange

Hello wiawan ... you may have missed the earlier posting in reply to your query re: tearing ... here it is ...

_______________________________________________________________________

Hi ...

You wrote: " ... Hmm do you have any remedies for excessive tearing? Sidnee has this persistent problem with her eyes - it went away for a while but these days I see signs of recurrence. Also, it's reddish."

Some breeds tend to tear more then others & some breeds are more prone to eye conditions.

Most eye conditions I have come across are usually the result of environmental factors ... allergies and such that causes the eye to tear. Check Sidnee's eyes ... (leave the redness aside for the moment) ...

Are the corneas clear? ... And what kind of discharge? ...

If the corneas are generally clear and the discharge is also clear ... then the condition may not be serious ...

If Sidnee is producing a watery eye discharge (not thick, yellow or pus-like) ... then his eyes may just need cleaning regularly. Some animals have tear overflow caused by blocked tear ducts or mild allergies. Try cleaning the eyes twice a day with a warm solution of salt water. The salt solution is a very mild disinfectant ... and is great for general care.

If the discharge is thick or yellow then that may be sign of infection and you really need a vet ... Eye problems can be serious and early treatment required.

Will do more checking and let you know if I find anything else.

___________________________________________________________________________________


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 25, 2003, 7:34 PM


Views: 16850
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Yeaps ... have been following Sparkle's journey ... Smile ... we have had our share of having to deal with dermo mange ... and know how difficult it can be ... Smile

Cheers


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 25, 2003, 7:49 PM


Views: 16848
Re: [wlaiwan] Mange

Hello ...

OOOps ... think I just cross posted you ... sorry ... Crazy

Yes ... just mild salt solution ... using "sea-salt" is good ... better than ordinary table salt 'cos its more natural ... Because its for the eyes ... make solution mild ... so it doesn't sting ... experiment with concentration of salt solution ...

Will do a quick check on pugs & eye ... let you know ...

Good luck ... Smile


wlaiwan
Dog Kichi


Aug 25, 2003, 7:53 PM


Views: 16846
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Hie there,

wow , that was quick! I just remembered that someone asked me to use saline solution for our contact lens to wipe our doggies' eyes. Is it advisable?

Regards
wlaiwan, sidnee, shino + rufus

(This post was edited by wlaiwan on Aug 25, 2003, 7:54 PM)


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 25, 2003, 7:55 PM


Views: 16849
Re: [wlaiwan] Mange

You wrote: "... gel-ish whitish discharge every now and then and lately, her eyes are reddish. Corneas - negative, not clear ..."

The whitish discharge is normal ... our doggies have that too (esp. in morning) ...

But not so good that corneas are not clear ... A healthy dog will have clear corneas ... *hmmm* ... this one beyond me already ... and will need vet to diagnose ...

If you wish to discuss vets, think we have to do this privately - you can email me at surchinmy@yahoo.com

cheers


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 25, 2003, 7:57 PM


Views: 16847
Re: [wlaiwan] Mange

*errr* ... contact lens saline solution? ... dun know lar ... have to check the ingredients in a contact saline solution ...


houyee
Novice


Aug 27, 2003, 12:56 PM


Views: 16824
In A Nutshell

hi all,

i've been following these posts on and off for some time now. poor us! both my dogs have generalized mange and i'm quite stressed out as it is. sobs. i feel for you c-shellz.

first it was rowena who got new spots even after starting weekly armitraz dips. by definition that's generalized. then mongrella, when she went for spaying, and the vet shaved off some of her hair to prep for the op, i almost flipped out cause underneath the apparently healthy short coat were hundreds of pustules some of which were actively weeping.

so here i am hoping to share some info i have learnt thus far.

Demodex Mange In a Nutshell

* Caused by Demodex canis, a mite which lives IN the hair follicles of ALL dogs (passed on from mom to pup) - that's why it's so hard to kill with topical chemicals

* Normal dogs control the mites naturally by killing it with their cellular immunity (T-cells). When a dog has defective T-cell immunity, these mites multiply and infest the host leading to demodicosis or mange.

* Puppies have immature immune system and sometimes develop localized mange due to this immaturity. Some puppies grow out of it once their immunity builds up with age.

* Some unfortunate pups develop generalized mange due to inborn immune system defect. These pups should not be used for breeding purposes. This form of mange is difficult to cure and usually take a chronic course as the immunity is not there to fight and control the mites.

* Adult onset mange can signify underlying (recently acquired) disease eg cancer, diabetes, hormonal/glandular diseases etc. so getting mange in adulthood signals poor outcome.

* key to treating mange

1. control mite numbers

2. boost immunity by good meat-based diet and eliminating other stresses such as worms. keep immunizations up to date to prevent diseases. spay bitches as pregnancies and heats are stressful events.

3. treat secondary bacterial infection (if present) with antibiotics. beneficial eg when pustule forms.

* controlling mite numbers

A)

Amitraz is currently the only FDA approved treatment for demodicosis. Amitraz is widely available from vets in a suspension in oil when diluted in water forms a milky mix with a distinctive smell. Current recommendation - weekly dips till 2 successive skin scrape negative followed by less frequent maintenance dips. Dipping means wetting the coat thoroughly with the mix including face and scalp. This can be achieved by sponging on taking care not to have the dog ingest it. Drip dry (do not towel off). Dip efficacy can be increased by washing the doggy with benzoyl peroxide shampoo and/or warm water soak to remove crusts prior to dip. long haired dogs should be clipped.

Note on amitraz toxicity

toxic if ingested. usually ingested by curious pups. Signs :- lethargy, nausea, vomiting, sleepiness, change in personality. Treatment :- shampoo the dog to remove all residues of amitraz, IV drip by vet if doggie gets too dehydrated from vomiting (rarely necessary), yohimbine will reverse toxicity partially (mostly unavailable in local vets). Otherwise just manage conservatively (i.e. wait and see for a day or two the dog will surely get better, liquid/bland diet). Prevention is better than cure! Be careful when dipping your furkid. Some say dip after food. Once you've mastered dipping then expect less/no side effects.

B)

Ivermectin also works (as an off-label presciption). Dosage : 300 microgram per kg per day (orally) for at least 6 weeks (can go up to 600 mics per kg per day in resistant cases). Usual treatment duration around 16 weeks. this is very high dose but rarely toxic except in shetland sheep dogs and collies and relatives (ivermectin sensitivity). Ivomec (the injectable form) and Eqvalan (oral form for horses) both can be given orally but hell bitter so you Mix with bait. injection if given daily can be tedious for the dog.

Ivermectin toxicity

Dilated pupils (midriasis), respiratory depression, disordered movements (ataxia), vomiting, drooling etc. Stop drug immediately. Symptoms will usually improve over time. No antidote only supportive measures. This is rare except in breed sensitivity mentioned earlier).

Combining amitraz and ivermectin can have adverse synergystic effects of central nervous system and respiratory depression. unless you're pro at dipping i guess dont' try it.

oh my god. that's hardly in a nutshell.

okay here's in a nutshell :-

if your dog get mange --> dip in amitraz

if that don't work --> take high dose ivermectin

improve nutrition

treat infection and worms

goody lucky :)
zippy 'rowena' kojak


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 27, 2003, 5:36 PM


Views: 16819
Re: [houyee] In A Nutshell

Hi houyee,

Sorry to hear about Rowena and Mongrella. Both of them having it together? Must be double stress for u...Frown Poor little things...

Thanks for the summary Smile U know, on the more positive side, I know for sure many other members have read through and are following this thread and at least more out there are aware about these pesky mites and at least they have some general ideas on how to fight mange. Smile

Btw, did your furkids lose a lot of fur? Sparkle is almost all botak at the eye and muzzle areas and his four legs. Body fur still ok.

Here's hoping that Rowena, Mongrella and Sparkle recovers fast...


(This post was edited by cshellz on Aug 27, 2003, 5:38 PM)


wlaiwan
Dog Kichi


Aug 27, 2003, 10:33 PM


Views: 16810
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Hi
Thanks for your the info. These 2 days, the discharge on her eyes have lessen. So I think I will wait and see. Keep u posted on the updates.

Thanks a lot.

cheers
wlaiwan+sidnee[pug]+shino[shihtzu] + rufus[rott]


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 29, 2003, 6:18 AM


Views: 16795
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

hi surchinmy,Smile

Just wondering...do u know if it's normal for the dog's affected areas to turn black? sparkle is looking better (no open sores, no new pimples etc) but the area around his eyes are turning blackish and wrinkled Unsure

Also, yesterday I was trying to change Sparkle's diet to BARF. Instead of cooking it, I just ran the liver & chicken necks over with hot water. It was still quite raw. This morning (in fact the whole day) he lau sai very teruk wor......

Gina said it could be due to the dog's reaction to raw stuff. Something like pushing the toxins out? What do u think? Smile


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 29, 2003, 8:12 AM


Views: 16790
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Hello ...

So sorry to hear that Sparkle has the runs ... Unsure ...

You wrote: " ... Something like pushing the toxins out? What do u think? ..."

*Hmmm* ... It is true that when changing from a kibble diet to a BARF diet, some dogs go through a "cleansing" process ... and they supposedly void old accumulated toxins ... they have loose stools etc ... But that doesn't usually happen after just one BARF meal ... Will check this up and let you know.

Could be caused by a variety of factors:

(a) Dogs that have been on an exclusively kibble diet sometimes require time to adapt to a raw diet ...

(b) The meat may not have been clean. Always get raw meats from a clean & hygenic butcher - wash thoroughly (some suggest washing in salt water & then rinsing with clean water before feeding) ... or scald with BOILING WATER ... (not just hot water) ...

I trust the liver was not pog's liver? ... And I am always reluctant to give raw chicken or raw chicken offal ... there always seems to be more cases of food poisoning with chicken than any other meat ...

(c) Sparkle has been through a lot lately ... he's system may need to settle down first before making another change ...

For Sparkle ... it may be good idea to change his diet more gradually ... let him settle down ...

Maybe you can start with a mixture of kibble & "freshly cooked" foods first and only slowly moving to a BARF diet ... Have emailed you on this ... Smile ...

As for the dark skin ... Allergies can cause dark patches to appear on the skin ... In Sparkle's case, it might also be side-effect of the dip ... Dips can be very strong ...

You can sooth the skin with a moisturising cream (something non-sented and as natural as possible) ... Observe and see what happens over the next few days ...

Hope Sparkle settles down by tomorrow ... keep in touch ... Do let me know how he is tomorrow ... Smile


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 29, 2003, 6:04 PM


Views: 16782
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Hello sifu! Smile

Thanks a lot for ur feedback!

Today Sparkle is still having diarrhoea...will continue to give him another garlic tablet today. Hey I think i remember you posting something about yoghurt being good for dogs who have the runs? Correct me if I'm wrong Blush U think it's a good time I made him a kibble salad with yoghurt for his tummy?

My biggest suspicion is that the meat is not clean enough. But I washed it thoroughly, and after I diced it I also washed it again. Then I ran hot boiling water on it once. But maybe it's not enough...it was chicken liver

Yep, got ur email. Will try those yummy recipes this weekend!! hehe some of it sounds yummy enough for me to eat too! Tongue

Btw, I have been gradually feeding him cooked food. Chicken breast, chicken & pork liver, pork meat, chicken neck....all boiled except for the chicken breast...i choose to steam. Been on that for about 2 weeks now and have gradually lower the portion of his kibble. so far no prob.

Until I decided to feed him liver ala sushi style Pirate

Well it's normal for the rim of a Spitz's eyes to be black (like his mouth). But then this black looks quite funny cause the skin's also wrinkled. I started applying the cream the vet gave but I stopped for awhile because it seems to sting a lot. Sparkle would whine when we put it on him. BUt now, no choice la...maybe it helps.

But what kind of moisturising cream do u suggest? What about the off the counter kind of Tea Tree Oil Creams? Are those ok? Human eye cream is different right? Even if it's not scented and all that? (wah if I use my cream on him my dad will say I i siau liao....Unsure)

thanks once again....Cool


htpol
Novice

Aug 29, 2003, 6:45 PM


Views: 16778
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Hi cshellz,

Better don't feed your pet with chicken liver. Most of the chicken farmer are unethically in our country as the chicken rearing are too crowded in the farm and caused the infectious diseases outbreak and antibiotic abused as a consequences. I strongly believe that there is antibiotic residue in the liver and it's good for your pets once your pet is having bacterial infection without any antibiotic prescription from your vet. Besides that, the liver is a detoxifying organ and for sure there is toxin as well in the liver. I think is not a good recipe for our pet.Try to spray Orgaderm on your pet's affected skin to get rid off those "black skin'.


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 29, 2003, 7:00 PM


Views: 16777
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Hi ...

Did some checking ... although some dogs do go through a "cleansing" routine when changing from a kibble to raw diet ... it is unlikely that Sparkle was going through that process after one meal of raw food ... It's more likely the "runs" was cause by one or a combination of the factors mentioned in my email ... Smile

The combination of kibble & fresh cooked food diet you were providing Sparkle on before his "runs" sounds good to me ... Sparkle also seemed to be doing well on it ... So, maybe a good idea to keep Sparkle on the combination of kibble & fresh cooked food routine for the time being - until he gets stronger & his system recovers balance ... a couple of months would be good.

Based on the recipies you mentioned, I would suggest ... Smile:

(A) You have reduced kibble and added "boiled chicken etc" or "boiled pork etc" ... Your supplement may be a little high in meat/protein content ... Suggest you try and maintain an approximate ratio of ... say ... 30% protein and 70% others in your supplement (the experts vary in their views as to what is the best ratio, but this ratio works for us ... you should tailor the ratio to suit our individual dog's reaction & needs).

*Aaah* ... do remember the caution when using chicken, poultry or pork meats & parts... Offal provides plenty of usual nutrients but maybe cow liver is better than chicken or pork liver ... especially when giving sushi style.

(B) When a dog is given too much protein ... that can cause adverse reaction ... the dog can start getting hives, allergies etc resulting sometimes in soft stools & the "runs" ...

(C) The 30% protein ... can be made up of a combination of meat, egg, cheese, fish, meat bones etc ... even the occassional can of tuna or sardine in water ... You can try using beef or lamb mince meat too ... it's easy to prepare and quick to cook. Suggest you give some bone 2 times a week.

(D) The 70% others can be made up of fresh blended veggies (always wash all veggies well), starchy veggie/roots (sweet potatos, potatoes (boiled till soft, with eyes removed) and grains (like oats, buckwheat, wheat bran, brown rice, lightly toasted wholemeal bread) ... I have been only suggesting brown rice so far because rice good for dog recovering from illness etc ... rice soothes the stomach.

(E) IMPORTANT: The important thing to remember is to rotate the ingredients in the 70%, so that Sparkle gets a range of ingredients over a period of time (each ingredient will provide its own spectrum of nutrients) ... the idea is while every meal need not be balanced, the diet as a whole is balanced. Most dogs do accept grain pretty well ... but observe and do not be afaid to change and vary.

(F) When introducing "raw" foods (esp. if dog has always been on kibble diet) ... the idea is to keep the bacteria count low while the dog is acclimatising the diet change ... this can be done by (a) pouring BOILING WATER (not just hot water) over the "raw" meat/bone before feeding ... OR (b) Rinsing the raw meat/bone in Apple Cider Vinegar ... both methods are useful for removing bacteria ...

Get well Sparkle ... SmileSmileSmile


(This post was edited by surchinmy on Aug 29, 2003, 7:18 PM)


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 29, 2003, 7:06 PM


Views: 15802
Re: [htpol] Mange

Hi htpol, Smile

Thanks for your reply. Makes sense. But if chicken and pig liver is not good, then what liver can I feed him? Or remove that entirely?

Orgaderm...can get in petshops? And is it safe for the eye area?


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 29, 2003, 7:21 PM


Views: 15797
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Hello Smile

Ok cooked food and kibbles it is for Sparkle!

You mentioned:
(D) The 70% others can be made up of fresh blended veggies (always wash all veggies well), starchy veggie/roots (sweet potatos, potatoes (boiled till soft, with eyes removed) and grains (like oats, buckwheat, wheat bran, brown rice, lightly toasted wholemeal bread) ... I have been only suggesting brown rice so far because rice good for dog recovering from illness etc ... rice soothes the stomach.

When u say blended veggies does it mean blend the green leafy veggies and legumes? Blend with blender or suffice to hand shred them to bits? I give oats to sparkle at least twice a week and when I do, i leave the meat out.

What if the dog doesn't like the veggies? I've also tried to give sparkle raw veges like cabbage and lettuce and sometimes the stem of siew pak choy and other green leafy vege. Sometimes he takes it, but most of the time he just leaves it.

Can I substitute the veges with fruits instead? like maybe I continue to feed him meat but in smaller portion and his kibbles. Maybe before his dinner time I feed him half an apple. And for the oats, I feed him every alternate days with honey and maybe I can include sweet potato to his oats?

Is that the same as blending everything together for one meal?

I think I'll just stay away from the raw food for the time being. htpol has a point. Surely the freshness and cleanliness isn't the same from one country to another when handling these stuff. Unsure

Thanks again and sorry yah for the endless questions....hehe Blush


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 29, 2003, 7:54 PM


Views: 15796
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Hi ... Smile...

You wrote: " ... Hey I think i remember you posting something about yoghurt being good for dogs who have the runs? Correct me if I'm wrong Blush U think it's a good time I made him a kibble salad with yoghurt for his tummy?"

*errr* I think not me ... Smile... if I remember correctly, it was the S.Huskey breeder from Australia who suggested using yoghurt to stop "runs" ...

I actually rather my doggies continue with the "runs" ... diarrhoea is a basic defensive mechanism for removing bad stuff ... I rather let dog get rid of the bad stuff then let it remain in the stomach ... I give plenty of water (even put ribena into water so doggie drinks lots) ... But will otherwise observe carefully to make sure the condition does not get chronic, if so then its off to the vet immediately ...

We give yoghurt as part of general diet ... small amounts 2 or 3 times a week for the useful bactria.

When a dog is on antiboitics ... the antibiotics also destroys Acidophilus (good bacteria, which is needed to reduce harmful yeast & fungi in stomach) ... when Acidophilus is killed the fungi/yeast levels can increase - causing diarrhoea and flatulence etc ... good quality yoghurt restores balance.

You wrote: "... But then this black looks quite funny cause the skin's also wrinkled. I started applying the cream the vet gave but I stopped for awhile because it seems to sting a lot ..."

Cannot say much about cream given by vet ... What is name & purpose of cream? ... Antibiotic cream? ...

Sometimes skin can look a little wrinkled if dehydrated ... so moisturise Smile ... Not eye cream!!! ... We use human moisturing cream ... the kind your dad will say "siou ah" ... Cool...

T-tree can sting & not to use near the eye ... we only use t-tree when its antibiotic & cleansing effect is required.

Just a little caution ... if dog is on antibiotics for long time ... can have side effect of fungal infection of skin ... so watch out for that ... best thing now is to observe carefully ... take to vet if not sure ...

In the meantime sort out Sparkle's diet so that his system is restored ...

Think you are doing good ... for sure we all get hiccups here and here ... so not to worry ...Smile

And ... *errr*... not "sifu" ... Blush ... we are all learning together ... when we think we become sifu ... that's the time the brain become "toufoo" and then sure kena "choi foo" and get wacked!!! ... LOL

Cheers ...


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 29, 2003, 8:14 PM


Views: 15793
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Blend or shred?: ... Either is okay ... depends on dog ... check poop ... if veggie or roots coming out whole then maybe better to put in blender (add water) and puree ...

In the wild, dogs would get their grains/veggies etc in masticated & half digested form from stomachs of animals they hunt. Dogs with shorter digestive system sometimes cannot handle whole grain/veg/fruit/roots/legumes the way we can.

How to encourage dogs to eat veggie? ... Green veggie can be kinda bitter and have no attractive smell ... so we tipu the doggie lah ... we mix the green veggie stuff with the meat or with the sweet roots/fruits (like carrot, apples, dried apricots etc) ... and then tipu somemore - with a dash of honey or yoghurt (which our dogs love) ... mix it all up so dog cannot pick & choose ...

But I would not leave out greens altogether ... they do provide nutrients not available in fruits or roots ...

Caution: Check the other threads to identify what veggies/roots/legumes are good and NOT GOOD for dogs.

You wrote: " ... Is that the same as blending everything together for one meal? ..."

That sounds good to me ... Smile ... just add greens every now and again.

Yeaps ... htpol has a good point ... Smile

No problems with the questions ... take care ... cheers


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 29, 2003, 10:36 PM


Views: 15784
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

hi again.....hahah Cool

ok la I think I need to hold my horses. Getting too excited to 'pou' Sparkle sampai a little obsessed with his diet liao...kekeke

I took the opportunity to go home for lunch today to check on him. He was happy to see me, but unfortunately after greeting me he proceeded to 'water' the grass with his watery poop. Crazy I'm so mean because I stood there half consoling him and trying hard not to laugh cause he sounded like he was farting it out....bad mummy huh?? AngelicLaugh

Wah...really ah...human eye cream? The one I use also I jimat-jimat guna becos so expensive Pirate Now got to share with Sparkle summore PiratePirate Aiyooo but what to do...want him to look leng chai again. Will try that tonite. Oh by the way eye cream means moisturising cream for the eye area la...more gentle. hmmm while I'm at it I might as well ask Sparkle if he wants a face mask...heheh LaughLaugh

I forgot the name of the eye cream given by the vet. Will post up when I go home to check later..

LOL but if you look at it the other way, if your brain become 'toufoo' then how can ppl call u 'sifu'? Must have 'liu' only can mah...hahah Wink


(This post was edited by cshellz on Aug 29, 2003, 10:51 PM)


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 29, 2003, 11:03 PM


Views: 15779
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

how not to call u sifu? Tipu dogs also u know how to teach....hahahaha AngelicLaugh

Thanks ya! Cool


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 30, 2003, 2:35 AM


Views: 15772
Re: [cshellz] Mange

... *errr* ... no sifu ... please ... just surchinmy is good ... thanks ... Smile... otherwise become toufoo head and then cannot post any more ... Tongue


houyee
Novice


Aug 30, 2003, 11:01 AM


Views: 15764
diarrhea

well sudden change in food is not good and will usually result in diarrhea.

raw meat can be contaminated with salmonella plus other pathogens which can lead to food poisoning. best to cook it if it is not fresh from the market or is frozen. cooking can also eliminate worms such as taenia of which part of their life process is burrowing into muscles or forming cysts.

doesn't matter which kind of liver. best to cook it.

kibbles especially premium/super premium are nutritionally balanced and do not require supplementation.

g'luck.
zippy 'rowena' kojak


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 1, 2003, 4:56 AM


Views: 15752
Re: [houyee] diarrhea

 
Hi ... Smile ...

You wrote: " ... kibbles especially premium/super premium are nutritionally balanced and do not require supplementation ..."

The following make interesting reading:

*** Dr. Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs and Cats by Richard H. Pitcairn DVM Phd, Susan Hubble Pitcairn

*** The Nature of Animal Healing : The Definitive Holistic Medicine Guide to Caring for Your Dog and Cat by Martin Goldstein D.V.M.

*** Protect Your Pet: More Shocking Facts by Ann N. Martin

*** Holistic Guide for a Healthy Dog by Wendy Volhard, Kerry Brown

*** Grow Your Pups with Bones by Ian Billinghurst BVSc

Cheers


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 1, 2003, 10:22 AM


Views: 15743
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Sparkle went for dip #3 today Pirate Surprisingly he's ok...not sedated at all. He's been in and out of the clinic so often that when I came to collect him today he was roaming about playing with the doc and nurses Crazy


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 1, 2003, 10:37 AM


Views: 15741
Re: [cshellz] Mange

... *AAAHGH* ... a third dip ... okay ... me is keeping ma' mouth shut even ... Tongue ...

Just glad Sparkle is doing well ... roaming around and visiting his girlfriends ... LOL ...

Say, did you ask the vet about the wrinkled skin around his eyes?


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 1, 2003, 11:05 AM


Views: 15740
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

yes, I did.

The colour (two possiblities)
1) Spitzies have black lines around their eyes. It could look like this under the fur (the colour). This kinda makes sense.

2) Sparkle has weird pigments all over his body. Has funny black patches of skin (looks like a cow) even below his thighs...has been like this since puppy. His nose also has a very prominent black spot right above his nose. If you look at my avatar closely, u can see it too..

Wrinkles (possiblity):
2) The wrinkles were caused by the swelling of the eyes before we started treatment. It's not swelling anymore...so that could be the reason it's temporarily looking that way. Should be ok soon.

Meanwhile, leave the cream the vet prescribed and leave it to heal...will check on him next week (Another vet visit...sigh)


Girlfriends? haha perhaps.....they seem to quite like him. Every week he goes back now the staff there are very nice and friendly to him and he's just so happy to see them too. Apparently they said he's friendly and doesn't move around when they bathe him....hahah Cool


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 1, 2003, 8:32 PM


Views: 15732
Re: [cshellz] Mange

... ah ... ok ... am sure the wrinkles will go soon Smile


ginl
ALPHA


Sep 2, 2003, 12:21 AM


Views: 15729
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Hey Michelle....Sparkle went for 3rd dip huh Unsure.....how is he doing now? How many more dips did the vet say he still needs?


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 2, 2003, 7:08 AM


Views: 15722
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Sigh...Sparkle ransacked my handbag today...all scratched up, chewed up my handphone (cover and battery habissss) PirateMad tissue paper also chewed up and my credit card also he was chewing...and I had some chewing gum too he also chewed that. Left a patch of chewing gum on the carpet for me to clean up....Pirate

Really feel like giving him away now!!!PiratePirate My handphone....really heartache.........Frown


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 2, 2003, 7:10 AM


Views: 15721
Re: [ginl] Mange

FrownFrown ya lor....*sigh* Dunno when will be the last one also. Not only he had the dip, he also had the jab. Next week gotta go back again...but dunno if he needs it still or not. I got the green light from vet to use the lemon solution one day after the dip.

Surprisingly ah...this time after the dip that fella like nothing only wor...running around and not looking sedated at all. And we took off the e-collar cause he's not scratching anymore Cool


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 2, 2003, 8:28 AM


Views: 15718
Re: [cshellz] Mange

oh dear ... but you know accidents will happen ... Smile ... and you are not giving him away ... Tongue ...

besides ... now your handphone has character ... like sean connery ... all lines and look of wisdom ... Smile


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 2, 2003, 4:57 PM


Views: 15715
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

yeah but this is kinda an annoying accident! Have to check if my credit card still works or not...or else have to change it. Hopefully they can change my handphone cover also..

hahaha character? He didn't scratch it. It's just filled with his teeth bite...yeah there are actually so many tiny holes on the phone now. Mad

yah I can't give him away. As of now he's worth a lot of vet visits and one handphone. Value has gone up Tongue


airdrigh
Novice

Sep 6, 2003, 9:06 PM


Views: 15694
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Hi cshellz and the rest who have been posting in this thread. Thanks for starting such an informative thread cshellz! I have a 1 yr old dobermann named Baron and from a pup he has been suffering from mange. guess its demodex of the dry type because the vet can't seem to find any pustules or mites or anything like that, his hair is just falling in specific areas and certain parts of his skin has bumps but not watery. Anyway he was on a dose of ivermectin but to no effect and have been bathing him in malaseb every week, but I think the problem is just being contained rather than improving. Have more or less resigned myself to living with his hair like that. but after reading all your postings, I might try some of the remedy's especially the lemon, garlic as well as feeding him with natural food rather than kibble. His lymphnodes are also badly swollen and the vet said it couldn't be helped, just put him on antibiotics, but hasn't really cleared up and his right hind leg is swollen but does not restrict his running at all, he doesn't seem bothered by it...so it's all quite stressfull on me but can't seem to find a vet that know's whats going on. Oh yeah the other thing is I think his paws are swollen as well also probably due to the mange I suspect. I read somewhere that dobermanns are particularly prone to skin problems.....So if you guys have any suggestions other than what I have already read in this thread, please feel free to share with me. Oh the other thing I tried was a full shave and engine oil mix with sulphur. a friend of mine recommended it, it has helped some dogs but didn't really help mine. I did it twice but still the problems persisted. Actually the engine oil mix does sound scary but think it does help to a certain extent and washing it after it has dried a few days is less troublesome than it sounds. The vet also asked me to try the drips, but it is quite difficult a the vet i go to is really far away and transportinghim to and fro can be quite tiresome. Ayway thanks once again for sharing some of the remedies here. Will try them out sometime and hopefully I will post some updates on the progress.


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 7, 2003, 2:21 AM


Views: 15690
Re: [airdrigh] Mange

Hi ... Smile

Just some observations & suggestions if I may ...

(a) You say your dober was given "a dose" of ivermectin ... if I recall correctly, for invermectin to be effective against dermo mange - the vet actually has to prescribe a "course of treatment" and not just one dose ... (perhaps you can double check with a 2nd vet) ...

(b) Although Malaseb can be very effective for certain skin conditions ... it is very strong ... Constant use over prolonged periods may bring about side effects ... There are other shampoos that serve same/similar function to Malaseb but not so strong ... if you wish to know more plse post your email addy & I will provide the name ... we are not supposed to mention brand names in this forum.

(c) For best effect ... the natural lotions/washes ought to be applied together with a change to a "healthier" diet ... but the provision of a healthier diet requires that you do research to learn how to prepare & feed a wholesome diet with or without kibble supplement ...

Swelling of lymph nodes can be serious ... suggest you seriously consider getting another vet to examine your dog and give 2nd opinion ...

Here's wishing your doggie gets well ...


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 8, 2003, 8:13 AM


Views: 15680
Re: [airdrigh] Mange

hi airdrigh, Smile

sorry to hear about your dog and glad you found this thread. Hopefully some of the remedies posted up can help your doggie

Have you been to another vet to get a second opinion? About the swelling of lymphnodes and paws....my puppy didn't suffer from that. What he got was a swollen dewclaw and eye.

You can try all the natural remedies posted up by ginl. I'm personally using the lemon solution to bathe my puppy now and he's showing very promising improvement. The diet tips posted by surchinmy is definitely very helpful too. Since these are all natural stuff, I see no harm in you trying them out.

Also, is your dog scratching the affected areas? If he is, I'd suggest you put him on the e-collar the next trip to your vet. If they scratch it might aggravate the problem. My pup was wearing the collar for more than a month. But it prevented him from scratching and I think that helped greatly in his recovery.

How bad is your doggie's condition now? While many don't suggest the dips....I must admit that the first dip that my puppy went for (although he was sedated and drowsy for a few days) did bring down the swelling of his eyes. He's had a total of 3 dips so far and today when he went for his check up, the doc said he can do without it already. My personal suggestion is...if your dog's condition has reached a stage when it needs immediate and quick cure, do the dips. It might be very painful to see your dog in that sedated state but at least it's going to kill the mites. However if your dog is barely showing any serious symptoms yet, please do try out the lemon solution. You can wash him with that in the affected areas daily. It will work but it might take time.

If you don't mind me saying, regardless of how troublesome it is to take your dog to and fro the vet, it's better you do that now than to let the problem grow worse. If the problem has been around for that long chances are slim that his immune system will fight it off by itself. Best is to get him treated early. Mange is a very troublesome problem and recovery time is pretty long (I myself have been in and out of the vet for more than 2 months, every weekend without fail)....but what to do, we all only want the best for our furkids so we'll have to do everything we can to cure the problem.

Hang in there....Sparkle and I wishes Baron a speedy recovery! Smile


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 8, 2003, 8:18 AM


Views: 15679
Re: [ALL] Mange

good news guys!!

Sparkle went for his check up today and the vet announced he doesn't need anymore dips! CoolCoolCool Said the fur's growing well but it'll take time for it to grow back fully. He doesn't even need to go back every week now. His visits are reduced to once in 2 weeks!!

YAY!!!!!!! Smile

Meanwhile, he's still continuing with all the supplements plus I'm washing his affected area with the lemon solution everday. I think these stuff are really helping!! Will post updates as we go along..

Thanks guys...


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 8, 2003, 8:39 AM


Views: 15677
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Good news ... glad its all getting better ... Smile ...

Hugs to Sparkle ...


mackmack
Doggyman


Sep 9, 2003, 12:50 PM


Views: 15666
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Wow~ glad to hear that! it's about the up & down of Sparkle suffering from Mange!Wink


--I have Howling Bean and Lazy Mack.--


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 9, 2003, 4:51 PM


Views: 15664
Re: [surchinmy, mackmack] Mange

ahh...thank u guys...Smile


ginl
ALPHA


Sep 9, 2003, 5:08 PM


Views: 17380
Re: [cshellz] Mange

YAY! no more dips for Sparkle Smile It's nice to know we hv all followed the progress of Sparkle frm beginning till now and see how a dog recovered frm mange step by step....thanks for keeping us all updated....hope it'll be smooth sailing for him frm now on Smile


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 9, 2003, 5:32 PM


Views: 17377
Re: [ginl] Mange

Hi Gina!

Thanks Smile Yah I think he's much happier now that he can skip the dips. So in total, he's has 3. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I'll get no more surprises from him from now on..

I've checked with a few ppl and most of them said that it's safe to bring him out as it's not contagious. I've decided to bring Sparkle along this Sunday (if all goes well). I think the little fella deserves a little time out of the house. Smile

He'll look a little funny alright and quite patchy in some areas but I think he deserves to come out for that day. Cool


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 9, 2003, 6:18 PM


Views: 17375
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Cshellz ...

It was a great great idea starting this thead ... Smile... it has helped quite a number of people ... and given others some things to think about ... Well done to you and Sparkle ... Smile

Cheers


(This post was edited by surchinmy on Sep 9, 2003, 7:17 PM)


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 9, 2003, 6:56 PM


Views: 17372
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

hi SK...

it wouldn't have been informative at all if no one contributed. Smile So, thanks to u too!! Cool


mackmack
Doggyman


Sep 9, 2003, 8:28 PM


Views: 17366
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Maybe can ask our webmaster to keep it in the Hot Topic Section in the main page for quick reference.


--I have Howling Bean and Lazy Mack.--


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 9, 2003, 10:12 PM


Views: 17360
Re: [mackmack] Mange

hehe can suggest to him la...but dunno what he'll say Tongue


mackmack
Doggyman


Sep 9, 2003, 10:13 PM


Views: 17359
Re: [cshellz] Mange

It's all up to him!

but i will second you~Wink this is really a good and informative thread.

moreover, benefit pug members.


--I have Howling Bean and Lazy Mack.--


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 9, 2003, 10:17 PM


Views: 17357
Re: [mackmack] Mange

ok will try to ask him!! Wink Benefit pug, benefit all the doggie squad cause any doggie also can kena...Cool


mackmack
Doggyman


Sep 9, 2003, 10:17 PM


Views: 17355
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Choy! kena your head. PREVENTION.


--I have Howling Bean and Lazy Mack.--


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 9, 2003, 10:21 PM


Views: 17353
Re: [mackmack] Mange

ahahaha ya la............we're learning how to prevent. But what I meant is this problem is quite a general problem and it's affecting a lot of dogs ler...so good for ppl to read up also. Tongue

At the beginning I didn't even know how to pronounce Mange properly Blush


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 9, 2003, 10:43 PM


Views: 17351
Re: [ALL] Mange

Hi guys,

I just found a very good book during lunch earlier..."The Natural Remedy Book for Dogs & Cats" by Diane Stein

Here...I'll try to summarise what's written in the part about Mange from the book:

NUTRITION
Feed holistic diet, preservative free pet food or homemade diet with supplements. Feed raw liver and egg yolk once a week, and avoid all milk products and fats other than those in the daily oils.

NATUROPATHY
Begin with 3-5 day liquid fast using beet or celery juice as detoxifier then switch to the optimal diet. Give aloe vera juice with chlorophyll. Bathe the dog weekly or even daily, soaping twice with an herbal flea shampoo or Betadyne scrub. Leave the second soaping on for 10 mins before rinsing thoroughly, then use the lemon rinse (this is something like the lemon solution recommended by ginl). Use this solution dailly while dabbing pure lemon juice onto the lesions. Add lots of garlic to the animal's diet and put apple cider vinegar into the water bowl. Cider vinegar, garlic juice (not oil) or Betadyne may be used externally on the sores. Essential oils or juniper and lavender diluted in herb infusions or water maybe used externally too. (Make sure it's pure oils, not perfumes).

VITAMIND & MINERALS
Vitamins C, E and Zinc are important. Vitamin C about (500-3000mg), Zinc about (5-20 mg) depending on body size and Vitamin E can go as high as 800 IU. Add lecithin to the diet (one half to three teaspoons) and if not feeding brewer's yeast give yeast free B-complex tablet in higher potency, about 15-30 mg.

HERBS
Give Goldenseal with Echinecea from start through complete healing of mange and continue for at least 10 days after symptoms disappear. Plantain or lavender also kills mites when used externally. Other useful herbs include wormwood, butternut bark, and/or sage, all externally. Tea tree oil can be used externally (must be diluted if used as a full body rinse).

HOMEOPATHY
Primary remedy for mange is Sulphur (30C, 200C, 1M, 10M). May be alternated with Arsenicum to relieve furious itching. If both fail, try Psorinum. Sepia is for the animal in convalescence.

FLOWER ESSENCES
Cotton specifically for Mange, Luffa for skin lesions and karmic skin conditions. Crab Apple, Camphor and/or Tomato are cleansers. Salvia supports immune system under stress. Cedar is a detoxifier and useful for hair loss. Snapdragon when lesions are primarily together around the mouth.

GEMSTONES
Citrine as an elixir or in the water bowl, in the environment and on the pet's collar. It cleanses the skin of toxins and regenerates tissues. Bloodstone is similarly positive. Make an elixir of Emerald for deep cleansing and detoxifying. Lapis Lazuli and Sugulite balance the endoctrine system and raise immunity. Jade or Blue Tourmaline also builds immune function.


(This post was edited by cshellz on Sep 9, 2003, 10:44 PM)


kesuke
Doggyman


Sep 10, 2003, 2:22 AM


Views: 17342
Re: [cshellz] Mange

hi Smile
been following your thread on sparkle...glad to hear that he's doing ok now...must have been a hard time on you.Unimpressed
thank you for posting this..you've educated alot of ppl on mange..including me...Smile
hope everything goes well for you and sparkle..SmileLaugh

Sorely missed and always remembered - Beloved Billy
Penang lang? Click here!!


kesuke
Doggyman


Sep 10, 2003, 2:39 AM


Views: 17341
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

just wondering..where can we get sea salt?

Sorely missed and always remembered - Beloved Billy
Penang lang? Click here!!


airdrigh
Novice

Sep 10, 2003, 2:56 AM


Views: 17340
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Hi surchinmy, yeah what I meant was a course of ivermectin, I went to two vets already, the first one gave injections and it went on for 3 or 4 shots ovver a month, but then the skin didn't clear up, and then after leaving my dobermann alone for a while, I just used sulphur mixed with engine oil, twice...also didn't help, so then after a couple of months, I went to another vet and he prescribed ivermectin in tablet form and it was for two weeks and each tablet cost RM5. quite ex but also still didn't work. I found out later that giving ivermectin too much is not good, that's why I was reluctant to continue giving it jabs or tablets anymore, so now as long as the skin problem doesn't affect his health, he is actually quite active and eating very well, so I think I will try going natural. So far malaseb hasn't shown any improvements as well, I think it is only suppressing it from getting worse because the problem is limited to certain pots and not spreading to the entire body.



My email is airdrigh27@hotmail.com so you can email me there concerning the shampoos. I have actually used selederm and sebolyse on my other dog, he is a GSD and skin problems for them is also quite common in old age, so he did develop skin problems but after using selederm, it has helped and hi skin is normal now. Ok, any opinions on another vet I can go to? I am actually quite tired of running all around and finding out that the vet will just give the basic answer, I think half of us here on puppy.com can give better answers about mange!!!


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 10, 2003, 5:05 AM


Views: 17334
Re: [kesuke] Mange

Hello ... Smile

You will find sea salt in most supermarkets ... alternatively, rock salt is good too ...

These are natural salts rather than the usual processed table salt ... and supposed to contain more trace minerals ... Good for people too, so they say ... Smile

Cheers


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 10, 2003, 7:14 AM


Views: 17332
Re: [airdrigh] Mange

 
Hi ...

Looks like you are going through the same mill as so many of us ... Unsure

Since you have already mentioned all the shampoo names - we might as well continue here ... LOL ...

Malaseb is used to primarily control bacteria, fungal and yeast infection ... and does not control dermo or sarcoptic mites. So unless your dog's mange condition has been complicated by secondary infection ... your dog may not need such a strong shampoo as Malaseb ... Sebolyse serves the same purpose as Malaseb - except not so strong.

If your dog does not have any secondary infection - then maybe a more gentle shampoo would be good enough ...

I suppose my rational is that a dog with mange will already have enough stuff dumped on its skin ... Unsure ... so enough already ...

I find the Epi-Sooth, Epi-Derm or Sebolytic range of shampoos more gentle, with good anti-itch properties that help soothe itchy & irritated skin & control some minor secondary infections ...

On the issue of Ivermectin - think you have researched & will know that Ivermectin is primarily a "dewormer" (the ingredient in Heartguard), but vets have started using Ivermectin in larger dosages over fairly long treatment periods - to combat mange infection ... (the downside is that Ivermectin has not been approved for such use) ...

Our experience with Ivermectin is that it has effective mange control properties (our vet used Ivermectin to great effect with our dog) ... but it must be very carefully prescribed in the correct dosage (calculated according to the dog's weight) and used over the correct treatment period ... incorrect application & dosage can be ineffective and/or dangerous to the dog ...

Our dog was prescribed with Ivermectin over a period quite different from your dog - and in our dog's case, it proved very effective ... But not being a vet I hesitate to say more about the course of treatment your dog was prescribed ... (I will email you on the issue of vets) ...

But we found that getting rid of the mange was the first step - the second was trying to make sure the mange did not return ... for this we went back to natural remedies & proper nutrition to improve our dog's immune system ... And this has proved (touch wood) effective ...

I also have to agree with Cshellz ... much as I personally dislike Amitraz dips (it makes my dog real dopy and duh) ... if the mange condition is servere ... you may not have other choice - just to get the mange infection under control ... and give the homeopatic remedies a better chance of working ...

But of course much depends on the dog, the severity of condition and the owner's diligence in applying the homeopatic lotions ...

Since you say your dog is in a stablised condition - your decision to go "natural" may be correct ... we wish you the best ... Smile ... We (and several others in the forum) found the lemon dip useful ...

Lastly ... Pfizer Animal Health has released a new product called Revolution that is supposed to be effective against mange infection ... if any one has experience with Revolution - would sure like to hear from them ...

Cheers


(This post was edited by surchinmy on Sep 10, 2003, 8:09 AM)


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 10, 2003, 7:29 AM


Views: 17330
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Hi ... Smile

The book sounds interesting ... where find? Any copies left? ...

Have also been trying to find "Goldenseal with Echinecea" ... do you have any idea what it might be ? ... Tablets? Lotion? ...

Cheers ...


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 10, 2003, 8:02 AM


Views: 17325
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

hehehe I found the book in a second hand bookshop today for RM22. What a bargain Sly I got caught up with reading it cause it provided different methods of treatment for each disease and illness...ie mange, constipation, hip problems etc...and the guy at the shop was starting to give me looks Blush I can lend it to u if you want...

Nope...i dunno what form it is. Actually I'm not really sure what Goldenseal is too. Leaf? Flower? Shocked I'll read the book over the weekend and hopefully I'll be able to provide some answers next week....heh heh Wink


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 10, 2003, 8:08 AM


Views: 17322
Re: [kesuke] Mange

hi kesuke..

Yeah, it was a difficult time for both me and my puppy....but he's on his way to full recovery and that's all that matters now! Cool

Glad you found this thread informative....must also thank all the rest who contributed their experiences and knowledge. They helped my doggie a lot Smile


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 10, 2003, 8:13 AM


Views: 17321
Re: [cshellz] Mange

... Waaah ... find book in 2nd hand shop ... well done Smile ...

Thanks for the offer - will take you up on it after you have had chance to give it a goooood read ...

If got time will some research on Goldenseal and see what I can dig up ... LOL ... and then we exchange notes next week ... or on Sunday ...

Cheers Smile


mochacappucino
Enthusiast


Sep 10, 2003, 7:47 PM


Views: 17313
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Thank you for starting this thread. It really helps. BUt I need to find out more about certain terms and ways mentioned in this thread. What is a "dip"?

My Mocha girl also suffers from mange. The first vet I went to actually gave her ivermecsin jabs. 1 jab per week and after 3 weeks still no improvements. Then I was told to wash her with certain liquid everyday. We lost hope then but then thought that things might improve still. Then the next day while I was preparing to wash my Mocha girl with the liquid, I found the container actually melted! Wow! Luckily I didn't apply that to my Mocha. Don't really know what will happen to her if I did !Shocked

So, I went to another vet (not going back to the first one anymore!). This vet knew what it was when he first saw Mocha. Confirmed that it was mange with the microscope then prescribed her with certain tablets and lotions (I don't know the names). Mocha got better after a few visits and now I think her condition is under control. But her hair stopped growing on her hind legs. Unsure

I am still feeding her with normal dog food (dried). So, I am not sure if her condition will improve if I change it to fresh diets as mentioned ealier. Hmm...

By the way, is it contagious in any way? I was told it is not.

Previously I was using Etiderm. Now I am using Malase instead.

Regards,
~!@Mocha@!~

Come to the Chit Chat Thread with MochaCappucino @ the Chit Chat Section !
Or come join the Klang Division Thread !

(This post was
edited by mochacappucino on Sep 10, 2003, 7:52 PM)


ginl
ALPHA


Sep 10, 2003, 8:48 PM


Views: 17305
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Good for Sparkle! Cool He gets to come out and meet other ppl and doggies Laugh...yah demodectic mange is not contagious, only sarcoptic mange are so don't worry about passing it to other dogs...all dogs hv demodex mites on them Smile


kesuke
Doggyman


Sep 10, 2003, 8:56 PM


Views: 17304
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

thank you very much....i'll go hunting for sea salt now....WinkLaugh

Sorely missed and always remembered - Beloved Billy
Penang lang? Click here!!


kesuke
Doggyman


Sep 10, 2003, 9:07 PM


Views: 17303
Re: [cshellz] Mange

glad to know your dog's improving and doing fine now....SmileCool
btw, do you know of any 'natural herbs' that's good for the coat?? surchinmy suggested that i ask you...Smile

Sorely missed and always remembered - Beloved Billy
Penang lang? Click here!!


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 10, 2003, 10:06 PM


Views: 17293
Re: [mochacappucino] Mange

hi Smile

So sorry to hear about your dog's condition...but good news is it's under control now Cool

a "dip" refers to a chemical wash. My dog was washed/dipped in Mitaban. I dunno what liquid you used to wash your dog with but it might be the same thing. It's a very toxic substance and it's supposed to kill the demo mites that's causing the problems on your dog's skin. This has to be used according to the correct measurement. Too much of it can be very toxic, even fatal to your dog. That's why many don't recommend it. I personally would skip it too, unless of course the condition of your dog is very very bad and needs immediate cure.

However, since your dog's condition is 'under control' now I suggest you try out the lemon solution suggested by ginl. I'm also using that on my dog now. What I do is I prepare it, keep it refridgerated and use some to wash the affected areas daily. Showing very promising improvement. Wink

About the hair....it will grow back. But you have to be patient lor..you can supplement your dog's diet with stuff like salmon oil or cod liver oil which will help his skin & coat. I also give him Nutricoat every other day.

The health of my dog (my own observation) did improve after I introduced cooked food mixed with his kibbles. I tried to put him on a raw diet but his stomach didn't take it so well. So now I'm cooking for him almost everyday. But please do this gradually...

I used his normal shampoo to bathe him. After that I washed him with the lemon solution. Works well on his skin and he smells like he just got out od the dishwasher...haha

And good news is - it's not contagious! Cool


(This post was edited by cshellz on Sep 10, 2003, 10:12 PM)


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 10, 2003, 11:14 PM


Views: 15290
Re: [kesuke] Mange

Come this Sunday for the AKC RDO Day and u'll see the product.....really good stuff Cool


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 11, 2003, 5:49 PM


Views: 15279
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Hi SK,

2 days ago we tried something new. Since Sparkle refuses to eat carrot sticks and only takes apples if we bite it off from our own apples...

My mum made apple and carrot juice and we gave him all the apple and carrot pulp that stayed on the juicer. What I did was....scrape all the pulp out added some juice and mixed. Wah he sapu everything.

U think this is just as nutritious? I was thinking of doing this....giving him his starters which is vegetable/fruit pulp and then later only give him his dinner (which is usually protein stuff).

Can balance ah like this? Blush


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 11, 2003, 5:53 PM


Views: 15278
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Yesterday Sparkle gave me a fright. When I got home from work, the bottom of his right eye was so swollen! It didn't look like it had an open lesion or anything...just look like a bag filled with water. Pirate I noticed a small tell tale sign...looked like a mozzie bite. Mad

Anyway, washed that area with cool lemon solution and then put cream on it.

Luckily by dinner time the swelling went down and today he was back to normal.

Hak sei ngo....


mochacappucino
Enthusiast


Sep 11, 2003, 6:30 PM


Views: 15274
Re: [cshellz] Mange

cshellz, does that mean that I must spay my Mocha girl to avoid the next generation from having mange?Shocked

Regards,
~!@Mocha@!~

Come to the Chit Chat Thread with MochaCappucino @ the Chit Chat Section !
Or come join the Klang Division Thread !


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 11, 2003, 6:40 PM


Views: 15274
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Oh yes ... Smile fruit pulp is perfectly good ...

So, after your mom makes fruit juice, just collect the pulp for Sparkle ... And suggest, before cleaning & putting the blender away ... take the opportunity to blend some veggies too - like celery, parsley, long beans ...

You can make enough for a couple of days - if covered and kept in the fridge, the blended mixture should keep for a couple of days (but not more) ... fresh fruit/veg lose nutrients if kept for too long.

Just remember basic formula ... 30% protein. 35% carbo (brown rice etc) and 35% fruit/veggies ...

We just mix blended fruit/veggie into the rest of the food ... no need for "starter & main course" for our doggies ...Smile...

Hope Sparkle's swelling has subsided ... but for area around the eye might be good idea to make "fresh" salt & water solution (1teaspoon salt in a cup of warm water) rather then use the lemon lotion (which would probably have soaking for several days) ... salt&water is also mildly antiseptic ...

Cheers


cdmoo
ALPHA


Sep 11, 2003, 6:44 PM


Views: 15272
Re: [cshellz] Mange

hi cshellz,

This is what Rex's been feeding practically every morning for the past 3 months. I serve them as treats during fetch game.

Are u using red apple or green ones? Mine is green apple.

Smile
regards,

CD Moo





cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 11, 2003, 7:10 PM


Views: 15270
Re: [mochacappucino] Mange

hi mochacappucino,

no, you don't have to spay her. But some breeders advice against breeding the dog.

You see...the demo mites that causes Mange live on every dog (even the very healthy ones). It only reacts actively when the dog's immunity is not strong enough to fight them. Usually this happens when the dog's immunity is low or when they are under stress. These pesky mites then take over and create problems for our dogs.

Technically speaking, even a dog with a very good breed is prone to Mange IF the dog is stressed and it affects its immune system! Shocked

It does not mean that if the mother has had mange before the pups are guaranteed to have Mange too. But best is to avoid breeding her lor...


(This post was edited by cshellz on Sep 11, 2003, 7:12 PM)


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 11, 2003, 7:18 PM


Views: 15268
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

This is good news!! Nope won't be keeping it cause I think from now on we're going to be taking juice everyday.

The other day I gave him the pulp of apples, carrots and celery. We took it all out before we mixed in the bitter gourd. Is that ok for dogs too? But I think it's too bitter for him.

I tried mixing to his food but he'll mogok makan. So no choice this spoilt brat has to take his food in 3 course...appetiser, main course and dessert which is usually some fruit. Spoilt brat Mad

So far we have not used brown rice yet. My mum finds it too troublesome at the moment. Supplementing it with oatmeal instead.

I'll check on him today. If he still has the swelling then I'll use the salt water. But this morning he was fine Smile


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 11, 2003, 7:20 PM


Views: 15267
Re: [cdmoo] Mange

hi cdmoo, Smile

I'm using green apples too.

Btw, did you know that red apples are fattening?? So for ppl who are dieting, NO RED APPLES.


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 11, 2003, 7:36 PM


Views: 15264
Re: [mochacappucino] Mange

Hi ...

Think most responsible breeders will agree with cshellz ... Smile

The dermodectic mite is present on most, if not all dogs, but healthy dogs have a natural suppression mechanism that keeps dermo mites in control, and no adverse symptoms develop.

However, in a dog with a low or poor immunity system, dermo mites can reproduce rapidly, causing the problems we see in our dogs ... and with the onset of a severe demo infection, the dog's skin may become susceptible to a whole host of secondary skin infections - bacterial, fungal & yeast ... and dog's health can be quite badly compromised.

Most breeders I know would say ... "do not breed from a dog with a propensity for dermo mange" ... not because dermo mange is genetically transferable, but because recurring dermo infection may be indication that the dog is not the most healthy specimen.

Good & responsible breeders only "breed from the best to try and get the best" ... The idea is to get a better, healthier & stronger "next" generation ... and not to breed from dogs who may pass on a poorer state of health to the "next" generation.

The difficulty of course is trying to decide whether your dog's dermo infection is just a one-off affair (for example: (as cshellz mentioned) brought on by stress or adverse environmental conditions) or a more serious problem.
  • Observe whether dermo infection is a recurring problem.
  • Observe the nature of treatment & treatment required to bring the dermo infection under control.
A normal healthy dog will usually only require a little help from it's owner and a good vet to control dermo infection ... while a dog with generally low or poor health & immunity will probably require more severe forms of treatment, over a longer period, and also probably require life-long support to prevent recurrence of the infection.

Hope this helps to answer your query ... Smile

Cheers


(This post was edited by surchinmy on Sep 11, 2003, 8:13 PM)


mochacappucino
Enthusiast


Sep 11, 2003, 7:57 PM


Views: 15259
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Thank you very much for your reply. Yes, I do understand now.

So, now it goes back to the argument of to spay or not to spay for a normal case. Smile

Regards,
~!@Mocha@!~

Come to the Chit Chat Thread with MochaCappucino @ the Chit Chat Section !
Or come join the Klang Division Thread !


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 11, 2003, 7:59 PM


Views: 15258
Re: [cshellz] Mange

The bitter stuff ...*yeeecky*... LOL ... think bitter gourd is okay - I don't remember it appearing on any don't give to dog list. Just hope the people who prepare such lists know about bitter gourd ... Tongue...

Oatmeal should be okay, our doggies get oatmeal too ... But as with all grains, after feeding observe, some dogs are allergic to some grains, others are okay ... so just watch and see ...

Ahyooh ... and I thought our dogs are spoilt - but think Sparkle wins hands down even ... Tongue ... 3 course dinner even ...


kesuke
Doggyman


Sep 11, 2003, 8:34 PM


Views: 15252
Re: [cshellz] Mange

will see if i can make it this sunday..coz i'm in penang lah..and some more no car...Frown

Sorely missed and always remembered - Beloved Billy
Penang lang? Click here!!


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 11, 2003, 10:32 PM


Views: 15247
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

how come the things you say are always easier to understand although we are saying the same thing?? hahahahahah CrazyTongueWink

I hate the bitter gourd too. What to do....my mum makes that juice thingy and says it's good for health. Looks more like she blended lizards and roaches and aliens in it....PirateCrazy

I think he should be ok with oatmeal then. I've been giving him oatmeal with honey since he was little and he quite likes it.

hmph! Wait till all his hair grow back. That time I will mogok his food and teach him a lesson!! ONLY kibbles for ONE WEEK. just to tell him who's boss and who decides what he eats. Now cannot la....so kesian...separuh botak...so let him eat what he wants first lor.....Laugh


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 11, 2003, 10:36 PM


Views: 15245
Re: [kesuke] Mange

well, hope you can make some arrangements lor...it'll be loads of fun!! Wink


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 12, 2003, 1:24 AM


Views: 15236
Re: [cshellz] Mange

What you wrote was correct, clear & easy to understand ... Smile ...

Haaah ... we shall see - when Sparkle get well you really teach him lesson or continue to spoil the fella even ...

Cheers


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 12, 2003, 3:23 AM


Views: 15232
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

1. I will not spoil Sparkle
2. I will not spoil Sparkle
3. I will not spoil Sparkle
4. I will not spoil Sparkle
5. I will not spoil Sparkle
.
.
.
.
100. I will not spoil Sparkle


TongueSmile


mackmack
Doggyman


Sep 12, 2003, 9:01 AM


Views: 15224
Re: [cshellz] Mange

   1. But Sparkle will be spoilt.

2. But Sparkle will be spoilt.

...................................

100. But Sparkle will be spoilt.

LaughSly


--I have Howling Bean and Lazy Mack.--


(This post was edited by mackmack on Sep 12, 2003, 9:01 AM)


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 12, 2003, 5:13 PM


Views: 15218
Re: [mackmack] Mange

SlySly oh no....sounds like the evil part of me talking!! muahahaahha

Have to start again...

1. I will not spoil Sparkle
2. I will not spoil Sparkle.........

Angelic


ginl
ALPHA


Sep 12, 2003, 5:19 PM


Views: 15217
Re: [mackmack] Mange

1. Sparkle IS already spoilt

2. Sparkle IS already spoilt

3. Sparkle IS already spoilt

...............

100. Sparkle IS already spoilt

Laugh


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 12, 2003, 5:40 PM


Views: 15213
Re: [ginl] Mange

alamak! another devil....TonguePiratePirate

1. I WILL NOT spoil Sparkle
2. I WILL NOT spoil Sparkle
.
.
.
100. I WILL NOT spoil Sparkle


*both fingers stuck in both ears to block out all evil thoughts*


LaughLaughLaugh


mackmack
Doggyman


Sep 12, 2003, 5:42 PM


Views: 15212
Re: [ginl] Mange

Hahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh



Michelle..... no need to WISH it here~ COZ:

1. Sparkle IS already spoilt

2. Sparkle IS already spoilt

3. Sparkle IS already spoilt

...............

100. Sparkle IS already spoilt
SlySlySlySlySly


--I have Howling Bean and Lazy Mack.--


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 12, 2003, 5:48 PM


Views: 15210
Re: [mackmack] Mange

*still closing ears with fingers *

Tralalalalala...........tralalalala..........

TongueTongueTongue


mackmack
Doggyman


Sep 12, 2003, 5:52 PM


Views: 15209
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Whatever~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Tongue



Clearly shown from your mood: Sparkle has recovered!Wink

be he the angle or evil, he still a mama-boy~


--I have Howling Bean and Lazy Mack.--


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 12, 2003, 6:11 PM


Views: 15204
Re: [mackmack, cshellz] Mange

Hey hey ...

You guys starting new Buddhist Mantra or what ... LOL ... Tongue ...

But I wonder why, I cannot find myself disagreeing with even ...


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 12, 2003, 8:02 PM


Views: 17103
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

UnsureUnsurePiratePirate

Nobody believes me PirateTongue


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 13, 2003, 7:28 PM


Views: 17088
Re: [cshellz] Mange

*Awwwwwh* ... okay lah ... I pretend to believe you ... WinkTongueAngelic


houyee
Novice


Sep 15, 2003, 8:49 AM


Views: 17079
ivermectin

hi all....

haven't posted for a bit. well just wanted to share that ivermectin did work....it worked like a charm. no side effects. nothing. the lesions cleared up 90 percent. even the huge bumbs. have only been giving it only past 2 weeks. those who are interested, please ask your vet. however not all vets recommend it but it is a common practice in other countries (including thailand).

'recipe':-

300 micrograms/kg/day for 6 weeks minimum orally
zippy 'rowena' kojak


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 15, 2003, 5:34 PM


Views: 17071
Re: [houyee] ivermectin

Hi houyee, Smile

You mentioned that it has to be given for 6 weeks minimum. So if Rowena has recovered 90% must you still continue for another 4 weeks?

When must should you start them on ivermectin? When the problem is starting or only when it's serious?

I saw in my bill it mentions "Ivermec". Do you think it's the same thing? I think the one Sparkle got was a jab? Crazy

Btw, glad that Rowena is recovering too Wink


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 15, 2003, 7:41 PM


Views: 17063
Re: [houyee] ivermectin

Hi Hou Yee,

Apparently the side effects appear mostly only on collies, Shetland sheepdogs, Australian shepherds, and Old English sheepdogs

Check this site out:

www.marvistavet.com/html/ivermectin.html


(This post was edited by cshellz on Sep 15, 2003, 7:45 PM)


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 15, 2003, 7:44 PM


Views: 17062
Re: [ALL] Mange

Dear ALL,

This is a good site that explains all the treatments for Mange and it's side effects. Good to know what the vets are using on our furkids!

According to this site, MOTOR OIL is a big no no!!

www.marvistavet.com/html/ivermectin.html

Click on "Demodectic Mange" at the bottom link


captain03
Novice


Sep 17, 2003, 8:12 PM


Views: 17039
Re: [kesuke] Mange

sea salt? i tot when animals consume salt they will drop their furs a lot... some pple even told sea salt cannot be consume... poisonous??


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 17, 2003, 9:56 PM


Views: 17036
Re: [captain03] Mange

hi, the sea salt discussed here is not for oral consumption. Meant to be diluted in water to wash the doggie Smile


captain03
Novice


Sep 18, 2003, 6:22 AM


Views: 17028
Re: [cshellz] Mange

oh.. so the sea salt is for washing the dog.. i tot to apply and leave it on.. this way, the dog could lick huh..


is_me
Novice


Sep 18, 2003, 8:43 PM


Views: 17022
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

where can we get the sea-salt? from aqua shop?


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 18, 2003, 8:54 PM


Views: 17022
Re: [cshellz] ivermectin

Hi ...

Ivermectin can be prescribed at any stage of dermo infection ... but most good vets will (as a general caution) try less aggressive methods to control mange before prescribing Ivermectin ... Our vet only prescribes invermectin for chronic cases ...

As far as I know, for ivermectin to be effective ... the dosage and treatment period are critical ... and the treatment period mentioned by houyee tallies with my understanding.

I am guessing that the minimum treatment period may be somewhat tied in to the life cycle of the mange mite ... so as to reduce chance of reinfestation ...

What I do not understand is why some vets are using invermectin in the form of one or 2 injections ... Would any vet out there care to explain? ... Smile

Cheers


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 18, 2003, 8:55 PM


Views: 17021
Re: [is_me] Mange

Hi ... can find sea-salt in most supermarkets ... Smile ... if cannot find sea-salt then natural rock-salt is also good ...

Cheers


is_me
Novice


Sep 19, 2003, 9:43 PM


Views: 17006
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

thanks ..

so, what i need to do is just rinse my dog with mild salt solution after i bath her with shampoo and conditioner, correct? i'm trying to lower down the itchiness. hope it works.


(This post was edited by is_me on Sep 19, 2003, 9:46 PM)


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 19, 2003, 10:38 PM


Views: 17001
Re: [is_me] Mange

Hi ...

The salt solution is a mild antiseptic ... so what you can do is this ... bath your doggie as normal ...

Then in-between bath days ... in the evening before doggie goes to bed ... soak a towel with the mild salt solution and just wipe your doggie (the affected areas) ...

A damp towel will do ... no need to like rinse or completely wet the dog ... just rub your dog with damp towel and work the sale solution onto the skin & affected areas ... This should help with general itchiness and rashes ...

Remember always rinse well after a shampoo ... shampoo residue can cause itchiness too ...

Cheers


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 24, 2003, 9:47 AM


Views: 16988
Re: [ALL] Mange

Just some berita terkini...

Took sparkle to the vet for his check up today (2 weeks since his last check up).....the vet's very happy with his condition. Gave him another Ivermectin jab and he's only scheduled to go back in 4 weeks time. What the vet is going to do is give him a jab of Ivermectin each time we visit....from 4 weeks maybe to once a month, then maybe to once in two months and then once in 3 months...etc. According to him there are some dogs who have many re-occuring problems. So bad that they need the jabs monthly.

Good news is Ivermectic only causes side effects to some breed of dogs. Also, for this time Sparkle will definitely be tick free. Any ticks that gets near him will die. Tongue

The fur around his eyes is almost 90% grown. Only his legs still look like a dalmation's legs. Fur is taking a longer growth time there...Unsure Definitely looks much better from the time at the AKC RDO Day Cool

That's all for the latest news Smile


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 24, 2003, 8:39 PM


Views: 16981
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Well done Sparkle and cshellz ... Smile


Riccaval
ALPHA


Sep 24, 2003, 10:45 PM


Views: 16973
Re: [cshellz] Mange

SmileGood news, michelle. Is he still on . did it help?Wink


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 25, 2003, 8:48 AM


Views: 16967
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

kam siah kam siah....CoolCoolCool


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 25, 2003, 8:52 AM


Views: 16966
Re: [Riccaval] Mange

yep he is. One thing I like about the is it really helps with the smell from his ears. I used to have to clean his ears twice a week because it smells the most there. I noticed ever since I gave that to him the smell wasn't bad anymore. CoolSmile Less doggie smell... I think it's helping with the mites too.

And the lemon solution.......I wash his affected areas with lemon solution everyday. I think this helps too.

The Keepers Mix is helping with the hair growth I think. Even the doc was happy with the rate it was growing back. He said normally doggies with longer fur like him take a longer time to grow back fur......Smile


ginl
ALPHA


Sep 25, 2003, 9:43 PM


Views: 16959
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Good news Michelle! Great to hear good progress since your last post Smile


mackmack
Doggyman


Sep 26, 2003, 12:29 AM


Views: 16951
Re: [cshellz] Mange

What a good news from you and Sparkle! Been reading this thread about his up & down too... it must be a big relief for you. Anyway, keep your eyes on him!


--I have Howling Bean and Lazy Mack.--


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 26, 2003, 6:51 AM


Views: 16946
Re: [ginl,mackmack] Mange

thanks guys SmileSmile *sniff* *sniff* Smile


RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Sep 26, 2003, 8:44 AM


Views: 16943
Re: [cshellz] Mange

great to hear the good news ~! Smile

erm..for the lemon solution..how do u know if it has rotted/fermented?

I prepared it like 2 1/2 days ago...but it still looks the same..barely even cloudy.It's sitting by an open window.

And oh yea..it's for TysonUnsure
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)



cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 26, 2003, 6:42 PM


Views: 16939
Re: [RealityDreamer] Mange

hello!

it doesn't have to turn fermented Smile The solution i'm using on Sparkle has lasted me about 3 weeks already and it still smells like fresh lemon juice cause I keep it in the fridge. It works the same. Wink

What's wrong with Tyson?? Shocked


RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Sep 26, 2003, 10:00 PM


Views: 16937
Re: [cshellz] Mange

aah..ok Smile

same thing as sparkle..

demo mange..Unsure

but only a small patch near his ear..
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)



surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 26, 2003, 10:01 PM


Views: 15701
Re: [cshellz, RealityDreamer] Mange

... *aaarrrh* ... you weren't supposed to keep the mixture in the fridge lar ... LOL ... LaughTongueTongue


(This post was edited by surchinmy on Sep 26, 2003, 10:02 PM)


RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Sep 28, 2003, 10:04 AM


Views: 15693
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

TongueLaugh i didn't...

anyways, I can use both types right? fermented/rotted or fresh?

but for the rotted/fermented type...wouldn't it encourage bacteria growth? Crazy
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)



cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 28, 2003, 5:16 PM


Views: 15689
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

eh? Shocked really? Gina also does that... and she taught me that wor....ShockedShockedBlush


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 28, 2003, 6:00 PM


Views: 15687
Re: [cshellz, RealityDreamer] Mange

 
Hi ... Smile ...

Remember the recipe for the STRONG version of the lotion:

--------------------------------------------------------Juliette de Bairacli Levy's method from "The Complete Herbal Handbook for the Dog & Cat": This is a stronger preparation.

"Save all used lemon halves and place in a gallon container, at least 24 halves to the gallon. Place the jar or container in the hot sunlight or pour hot water over the lemon. let the lemon remain in the water until pieces begin to turn mouldy, then remove and replace with fresh ones, squeezing hard the old ones into the water. Do not throw away any of the old lemon water which then remains. Rub the lemon potion into all parts of the dog's body to expel the skin vermin. When pomegranates are available, the peel can be added to this lemon lotion with great advantage. Use the skins from three pomegranates to every nine lemons. (keep jar covered with a paper top -not greased paper)"

*** I think Juliette recommends paper top because the mixture needs air (oxygen) to ferment & for the d-limonene (the effective oil) oil, to dissolve into the water …
--------------------------------------------------------

*** RealityDreamer ...
As for the presence of mold ... mold carries antiseptic properties ... penicillin was originally derived from mold ...

But all said and done - can use either the strong or the fresh"er" solutions ... the fresh"er" solution seems quite effective too ... Smile

Cheers ...


(This post was edited by surchinmy on Sep 28, 2003, 6:02 PM)


RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Sep 28, 2003, 9:35 PM


Views: 15678
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

aah...ok Smile

"let the lemon remain in the water until pieces begin to turn mouldy, then remove and replace with fresh ones, squeezing hard the old ones into the water." ...what does squeezing hard the old ones into the water mean?

hmm...the one i hv now..(not used yet) has some mold in it.. one bowl has bits of it on the top(dark coloured..black, i think) the other has whitish mold on the sides of the bowl.... that ok? Crazy
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)



surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 29, 2003, 12:55 AM


Views: 15673
Re: [RealityDreamer] Mange

 
You wrote: "...what does squeezing hard the old ones into the water mean?"

I think you are supposed to squeeze all the juice from the old lemons into the water before replacing with fresh lemons ...

You wrote: " ...one bowl has bits of it on the top(dark coloured..black, i think) the other has whitish mold on the sides of the bowl.... that ok?... "

According to Levy, now that the old lemons have turned mouldy ... it's time to "squeeze the old ones hard into the water" ... and replace with new lemons ... Smile ...

And the solution is ready for use ...


(This post was edited by surchinmy on Sep 29, 2003, 12:59 AM)


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 29, 2003, 8:08 AM


Views: 15668
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

UnsureUnsure I just threw away a bottle of the solution that my mum accidentally forgot to put back into the fridge Pirate But anyway, will keep that in mind.

Btw, the book I read also said that we can use fresh lemon juice...perhaps that's what I was using more all the time Shocked

I didn't do it the long way. I sliced up the lemons really thing. Brought a pot of water to near boil and then shut the fire, dumped the lemon slices in and let it sit overnight. Smells really nice but it does sting a lot...


RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Sep 29, 2003, 8:31 AM


Views: 15667
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

erm..replace with new lemons..

just take out the old pieces of lemon(juiced already) and then add new pieces? no need to boil or anything? need to squeeze the juice out right?
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)



surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 29, 2003, 8:40 AM


Views: 15666
Re: [cshellz] Mange

 

The overnight method is also good ... it's Pitcairn's method ...

-----------------------------------------------------
Pitcairn's method ... for preparing the lemon solution is the mild solution.

"1 lemon whole lemon sliced thinly ... bring 1 pint water to near boil add lemons, let steep overnight. Sponge on once a day."
-----------------------------------------------------


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Oct 7, 2003, 9:24 AM


Views: 15641
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Hi SK... Smile

Today as I was brushing Sparkle I suddenly saw blood on his back. Unsure Took a little closer look and I found that there was a patch of dry skin which the slicker brush accidentally brushed off so it was bleeding a bit. I cleaned it with warm water and applied tea tree oitment. More checks and I found that his skin is flaking (dunno if that's the right word). Kinda like small pieces of flaky skin in certain parts of his body.

*sigh* What do u think this could be?

Good news is....hit face has recovered fully in terms of fur growth. His legs are about 80% covered with fur now. and coat is growing back beautifully. Cool

But now....the skin problem again. *siiiiiighhhhhhhhh* I really dunno what to do. It's nothing to do with mange I think. Anyway, thinking of diluting ACV into a bucket of water to bathe him. Advisable? Any ideas?

I'm so sad now....and so frustrated....his skin problems never seem to end Frown Btw, I was also toying with the idea of switching to another brand of kibbles with lower protein....which *might* be the cause of his doggie dandruff...what say u?? Blush


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Oct 7, 2003, 6:59 PM


Views: 15646
Re: [cshellz] Mange

   

Had a think on this ...

All dogs get dandruff (flaking skin) from time to time ... flaking skin by itself can be a minor irritation and nothing more ... so perhaps don't get too worried ...

Went through the list of products that you are feeding Sparkle ... I think you may have been a little heavy on the supplements ... would suggest you cut back ... too much of anything can be as bad as not enough.






Meals: Stick to your normal kibble (I checked, BtoB seems okay ... the only element of some concern is the corn ... which can be an allegen for some dogs - if you are concerned switch to another bran without corn, a brand that uses - say- rice ... such as CCavier (check with boon on this)

Suggestion: If you say Sparkle is a picky eater ... make meat stew (chicken or beef or lamb, carrots, potatoes, pumkin etc) enough for the week (remove the bones, pack separately and freeze). Defrost the night before and you can add the stew to Sparkle's kibble everyday. That should encourage Sparkle to eat.

If you do this remember to reduce the kibble.

Supplements: Use the Keep*rs Mix ... follow instructions. Add some probiotic element ...

You can also alternate the following: cod liver oil, brewer's yeast, vitagen/yoghurt, 1/2 an egg (par-boiled). Alternate and sequence these elements - don't feed all on the same day.

The only addition I can think of that might do some good is flaxseed or safflower oil.

Jan A. Hall, D.V.M., a veterinary dermatologist and referral specialist in Ville St. Laurent in Montreal explains ... "Giving your pet fish-oil supplements will help improve the metabolism of fats in skin tissue, Try mixing 1/2 to 1 teaspoon of fish oil into your pet's food every day. Using the same amount of safflower oil can also help.

Continue to give your usual fruits etc ... and that should take care of the diet ...






Shampoo ... A good shampoo can help with dandruff ... have already suggested a brand ... Use warm or cold water - not hot water (hot water dries the skin). Remember to rinse well. Don't blow dry too long or too hot (dries skin). Towel dry well ... and just use blow dryer for a short time ... and sun-dry Sparkle (avoid noon-day sun) to remove balance moisture ...

Add oatmeal to the bath. The same colloidal oatmeal (Aveeno) that people use for dry skin can also help relieve flaking in pets. Dr. Cruz says "Aveeno is marvelous for pets with dandruff because it moisturizes dry skin," she says. It does take a little extra elbow grease to work it into a lather, though".






Solutions ... Think its time to get rid of your first batch of lemon lotion ... Make a fresh batch using Dr. Pitcairn's method (soaking lemons over night) ... and add a litte Apple Cider Vinegar (if you wish) ... use the solution on the affected areas - including parts with flaking skin ...

If the skin is still dry - apply a perfume-free moisturiser in the morning ... and the lemon solution in the evening ... and see if that helps.

M. Lynne Kesel, D.V.M., assistant professor of elective surgery in the Department of Clinical Sciences, Colorado State University College of Veterinary Medicine and Biomedical Sciences, says: "To get moisture down really deep, you can rub your pet's coat with the same moisturizing lotion or cream you use on your hands".

Remember to work both solution & moisturiser well onto Sparkle's skin. Start with once a day ... monitor ... and then once every other day should be okay.






On a slightly more serious note, given Sparkle history ... flaky skin (dandruff, soborrhea) can be indication of returning infection (bacterial or parasitic) ... check this site:

http://www.vetcentric.com/...e.cfm?ARTICLEID=1048

So ... do all the above, and observe Sparkle over the next couple of weeks or so ... and see if there is any improvement ... if not then please please find a good vet who understands how to treat skin condition in dogs ...

Dr. Hall says " ... While dandruff is usually nothing more than flaky skin, in some cases it can indicate serious problems like, parasites or skin infections. Warning signs to watch for, besides the flakes, include scabs, crusting or iching ... Problems with the skin can be an indication of internal disease ... After a month or so, if there is no improvement, you should take your pet to the vet. See a vet right away if the symptoms suddenly get worse".

Cheers Smile


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Oct 7, 2003, 11:47 PM


Views: 15635
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Hi Sk, Smile

Funny thing is this morning when I checked him the smaller flakes seem to have disappered...all that's left is the patch that was bleeding yesterday but that too, dried up.

I have cut down on his supplements starting today and of course, his kibbles intake. Now giving him more fruits.

Checked the website you suggested....gonna give him a bath too. I don't have the time to go buy the brand of shampoo u suggested, so meanwhile still have to stick to the current one but I'll make sure to rinse him off well.

Thanks a lot for the tips, will try to follow them ASAP. Lemon is down the drain by now already Tongue Will monitor closely and report changes. AngelicCool


RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Oct 23, 2003, 9:47 AM


Views: 15613
Re: [cshellz] Mange

How's Sparkle doing now? Cool
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)



cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Oct 23, 2003, 5:10 PM


Views: 15610
Re: [RealityDreamer] Mange

hi Chloe, Smile

Sparkle (to me) is as good as fully recovered. His hair now finally all in place LaughLaugh But have to go back to check up after 4 weeks from the last visit.

Now trying to improve his diet....in fact he's been BARFING for two days now and he loves it. I still give him Keepers Mix daily and I alternate the days and other supplements such as Cod Liver Oil, Brewers Yeast, Lecithin E and homeo med. Once in a while I pop an Echinecea and garlic for him.

His coat is slowly looking less dry and it's growing more, making him look a lot fatter now. Tongue Hey, will u be at the gathering this Sun? we should be bringing Sparkle and Bizkit along.

How's Tyson doing? Any good news? Smile


(This post was edited by cshellz on Oct 23, 2003, 5:27 PM)


RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Oct 24, 2003, 4:05 AM


Views: 15601
Re: [cshellz] Mange

That's good to hear.SmileCool

As for Tyson..yes and no.

His first original patch is growing smaller..a thin layer of fuzz growingSmile

but there are other rough spots appearing...I'm not sure if it's mange or just a small wound which dried up (playing roughly with Hazel)CrazyUnsure
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)



sweeeng
ALPHA


Nov 27, 2003, 5:50 PM


Views: 15568
Re: [cshellz] Mange

This post is too long and sad to say, I'm too lazy to read it... So since you've experienced Mange, I would like to ask you what you did to cure your dog? Cos my lab seems to be having that too... and the vet says that hers is a generation thing but her parents doesn't seem to have any signs of those... I'm really worried....

REgards,
Swee Eng


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Nov 27, 2003, 8:24 PM


Views: 15566
Re: [sweeeng] Mange

Hi,

This thread is indeed too long for me to post it all over again. I did so much for Sparkle during his recovery period. Maybe you can read the first few pages....the first page I've posted up some symptoms and details about Mange. So maybe you can understand what Mange is all about.

Sorry to hear that your lab has Mange Frown But it's quite a long time before full recovery (and will always come again anytime). Have to have patience. So maybe one day read two pages lor...hehehe

But first of all if your lab's condition is still not too bad yet, start with the lemon solution. Its posted up by ginl

Hope your lab gets well soon Smile


sweeeng
ALPHA


Nov 27, 2003, 10:37 PM


Views: 15561
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Aiyo.... maybe I"ll read lor... Frown But I guess my lab's condition has worsen... everytime it happens, I'll bring her to the vet... ok oredi then come again... very bengang... Now even on medication, her condition doesn't seem to get better... her hair shed until almost habis oredi... and her skin is so dry... right now my friend is keeping her.... and will treat her... according to my friend, the vet is pro-longing the whole thing... jes to earn $$ but I'm not sure if its true... Anyway, thanks a lot and I really hope my lab will get well soon enough to come back...

Regards,
Swee Eng


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Nov 28, 2003, 6:08 PM


Views: 15550
Re: [sweeeng] Mange

Yalor very pitiful hor? Frown Like I said right now you could start her immediately on the lemon wash. YOu can find the recipe posted by gina on the first or second page I think. that works very well.

Maybe you would like to change vets? the vet I went to, Dr Hasnul was very nice and concerned and I was satisfied with the way he treated Sparkle. I'm still going back for check ups and the Doc is still monitoring his condition. Imagine, when Sparkle's condition was really really bad, he even called at night to check how he's doing!Smile


sweeeng
ALPHA


Nov 29, 2003, 12:50 AM


Views: 15544
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Yah... i would like to try the lemon stuff but right now my friend wanna treat her so I don't dare say anything... cos I persuade him to help me take care of her and I can't jes say "Gif me back my dog", right!?

I'm glad Dr Hasnul is such a nice vet to even call during the night to check on your dog. That's what we want and like, right?! My vet does not even bother at all. I even went to another vet... which I called this morning regarding my dog's blood test... he's suppose to call me back and he's not even calling me!!!

This is rather annoying...

Regards,
Swee Eng


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Nov 30, 2003, 5:52 AM


Views: 15538
Re: [sweeeng] Mange

Well hopefully your friend can help your labbie Smile Btw, just wondering... is the blood test for mange? The vet should be doing a skin scrape instead of a blood test. The scrape is a surefire way of confirming if it's mange and what kind of mange it is.


sweeeng
ALPHA


Dec 1, 2003, 5:12 PM


Views: 15526
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Hi there...

The blood test isn't for the mange... It's actually the other doctor suspected that she has tyroid ... so had to do a blood test to confirm it... Glad to know that tyroid level is normal.. At least one problem at ease...

Regards,
Swee Eng


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Jan 15, 2004, 8:58 AM


Views: 15447
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Hi SK,

Sparkle is having skin problems again...this time getting just as bad, probably at a faster rate. *sigh* We were doing fine with the diet and all and all of a sudden everything's happening again. My last check half and hour ago showed his infection has reached even his ears...pimple like stuff (a lot of it) all over the insides of his ears and it has pus as well. Frown His tummy part has these stuff too. On his back there are crusty stuff which sometimes bleed. all happened in a matter of days! I dunno if this is mange or not but the area around his eye is losing fur as well. Sure looks like round #2. Unimpressed

He's in such a pitiful state now. Not able to eat and he would sit in a position for ages, not moving with his eyes downcast. I think he has fever too cause when I fed him his Sulfur pill his mouth was really hot inside! How can you tell if a dog has fever anyway? Really feel like I failed miserably to take care of him....cause I feel so hopeless seeing him like this. Can only wait till morning to take him to the vet again. Second time this week....looks like vet visits will become a norm again for both of us.

My dad suggested that I discuss with my vet about putting Sparkle to sleep. That'll be the last thing I want to do but really does it mean a dog with skin problems will have to suffer for the rest of his life? He's not even one year old yet and he's already been through so much. Poor baby.

I've done everything that everyone suggested. Even cleaning him twice a day with the lemon solution...continue to give him Nupro/keepers mix changed his diet to barf, give him his occasional supplement, give him raw fruits........I dunno what else I can do.

any suggestions? I already know that there's not much to be done till I take him to the vet tomorrow...but yet tomorrow seems awfully far away. *sigh*


serene_kwlim
K9 Maniac


Jan 15, 2004, 9:52 AM


Views: 15445
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Dear cshellz,

I wonder... do u ever think of sparkle's Mange / skin problem is cause by the surroundings? maybe u could try to use glorox to clean sparkle's sleep/rest/visit place and see if there's any improvement..

i have a fren of mine, got this mange / skin problem sometimes ago.. he's dog also suffer from Mange (ok aldy come back again case) and always visit the vet.... but after he hv try the glorox method to clean his dog's kennel on daily basics than the problem slowly turn better.. maybe u could consider try this method too..

pls. dun giv up on sparkle...he's still young...pls. gic him chances...tq!

regards,
Serene Lim
My furkids: Jamie & Max.

Jamie's WebSite
GSD Owner? Pls add in!

Jamie's Dogster
Max's Dogster


(This post was edited by serene_kwlim on Jan 15, 2004, 9:54 AM)


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Jan 15, 2004, 12:00 PM


Views: 15438
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Hi ...

Very sorry to hear that the skin condition has returned ...

I don't think you have done badly at all ... rather, I think you have done well for Sparkle ... So, don't feel bad ...

From your description, and because Sparkle has had dermo before - it is likely that the dermo has come back ... possibly together with some form of allergy (allergies can erupt pretty quickly) ...

Allergies and dermo are both conditions that can be treated and sorted out ... And I really really think Sparkle can be helped ... so, there is definitely no reason to think of doing anything drastic ...

What I do think you must do is get Sparkle to a vet that understands treatment of allergies & dermo.
The last time, I remember expressing apprehension with respect to the dosage of ivermectin and the mitaban dips prescribed for Sparkle ...

Msn me and we can chat more fully ... Maybe we can chat before you take Sparkle to the vet ...

Sparkle will be fine ... we just need to persevere a little more ...


(This post was edited by surchinmy on Jan 15, 2004, 12:06 PM)


Khoobg
Webmaster


Jan 15, 2004, 8:21 PM


Views: 15167
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Hi Michelle,

I think it is definitely not the right time to give up Sparkle even if the mange is very serious at this stage. From my experience with PUG which is prone to mange, this illness that is normally cause by poor immune system in puppy stage and will normally go off after the puppy gain adulthood. Since Sparkle is still young and it is definitely too early to tell if mange is going to continue to affect him for the rest of his life.


Dog Obedience and Agility - http://www.puppy.com.my/ob/
Events' Pictures - http://www.doggie.com.my
Online Pets Memorial - http://www.rainbowsbridge.com.my





cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Jan 15, 2004, 9:57 PM


Views: 15164
Re: [serene_kwlim] Mange

Hi Serene,

Yeah, that was one of the problems we thought of when he had his first mange attack. So from that time onwards we clean the porch, his pee & poo area and his sleep area with disinfectant once every two days and we won't let him wander to those areas until it's completely dry.

Clorox sounds a little strong for me....and it's actually bleach right?

Thanks for your suggestion, appreciate it a lot. Sparkle's my baby I won't give up on him. Smile Was a little upset to see him that way last nite and I was unable to help ease his itchiness and discomfort that's all

thanks again Cool


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Jan 15, 2004, 10:16 PM


Views: 15162
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Hi SK

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I took him to the vet this morning...didn't get to see your post here yet Frown

The vet said about the same thing....dermo & mange. He gave sparkle 8 tablets of antibiotics and some cream for the ears plus some Vitamin B12.

We tried to work out the possiblities...shampoo, diet, sleeping areas, scratching, etc etc. But I've been careful to make sure that I didn't introduce anything new to him just in case it might trigger another attack.

The vet also suggested something new today. It could be that Sparkle's a growing kid and has some hormone inbalance, hence the sudden break out. Plus dogs are pack animals so sometimes with left alone they get lonely and depressed. He said we're not dogs so the companionship we provide is different form a companionship of another dog. And sometimes when we're all busy running around or when we leave him behind when we go out he feels left out. Some dogs let out their frustration by scratching or rubbing themselves against something hard. And every dog's needs are different. So, could be that Sparkle is just feeling really lonely and depressed.

That's getting all psychological about the whole thing but what he says makes some sense too. He is left alone when we go out. Frown

I am now toying with the idea of adopting another dog to keep him company. Maybe when his condition improves a bit. I was worried that his condition might spread to the other dog but the vet said if the other dog's immunity is high, it's unlikely that he can get mange from Sparkle.

What's your suggestion?

Meanwhile, if you have a good vet to recommend to me, could you please email me the details?

Thanks a lot SK!Smile


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Jan 15, 2004, 10:23 PM


Views: 15160
Re: [Khoobg] Mange

Hi Mr Khoo

Thanks! it was my dad's suggestion to check with the vet cause he didn't like seeing him suffer like that. But I won't be giving up on Sparkle. Easier said than done to put a pet to sleep FrownFrownFrown

I guess all I can do at this point of time is to treat whatever that comes and continue to give him all the good stuff like Nupro & Keepers Mix lor...

Anyway, just wondering, generally at what age does a puppy/dog start to build stronger immune system?

Thanks again for the advise. Smile


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Jan 15, 2004, 10:49 PM


Views: 15158
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Hello ...

Dermo mange is (according to the experts) not infectious ... in that most (if not all) dogs have dermo mange mites anyways ... but as long as the immune system is strong, dermo mange does not become a problem ...

Your description of sudden pimple-like or pustule eruption suggests that it is not entirely dermo ... but possibly an allergy of some sort or some hormonal imbalance ... But with any dog that has previously suffered from a chronic case of dermo ... dermo is an opportunistic infection, anytime the dog's immune system is reduced - the silly dermo can reappear ...

Unless your vet is suggesting that depression or loneliness is causing hormonal imbalance, I don't quite understand how scratching or rubbing can cause pustules to erupt appear all over the body including inside the ears ... Anxious dogs usually suffer from more localised "hotspots" ...

I would still suggest ... (a) get a second opinion (will email you on this) ... (b) watch the diet, supplements & treatment you are giving - too much can be as bad as too little ...

I would try and get a handle on Sparkle's condition before introducing another dog ... the introduction of a new dog into an established household can be stressful at the best of times ...

Cheers Smile


(This post was edited by surchinmy on Jan 15, 2004, 10:58 PM)


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Jan 15, 2004, 10:56 PM


Views: 15157
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Basically ... as a dog gets older ... the immune system gets stronger in the sense that a good portion of the mammalian immune system is built up through exposure ... As our bodies get exposed to various conditions, our immune systems learns to handle such conditions better through experience and exposure ... Also, as our various glands and nodes mature, they go into full effectiveness and help us maintain good immune system ...

Which is the reason why many dog people find that as their dogs mature ... the issue of dermo mange reduces ... A dog reaches maturity from between 15 to 24months depending on the breed type & breeding ...

Cheers Smile


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Jan 19, 2004, 9:21 AM


Views: 15137
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Hi SK

thanks for your email...have replied it already Smile

Sparkle's ear pustules have all cleared up. His skin has stopped breaking out and his paws have stop shedding fur. Looks like now it's another round of waiting for his fur to grow back. It's funny how it just seem to stop in a few days!

I've cut out all forms of treats for him, switched to Hypoallergenic (spelling correct?) kibbles...still mixed with BARF, cut out all supplements including nupro and keepers mix for the time being and only giving the antibiotics and vitamin b12 the vet prescribed. A bit mindful of what the vet said too, my mum and I are spending extra time playing and just hanging out with Sparkle and it seems like just in these two days he's a lot happier. He's so attached to me now he follows me literally everywhere I go! Doesn't matter if he's sleeping, he'll get up if I get up to go somewhere. Amazing!! He used to be so lazy we could push him all the way to the kitchen and he'll still be sleeping! LaughLaugh

I was going to shelf the idea of getting a pup since it *might* not be such a good time to introduce a new family member at this time AND my mum has always been against us having a second dog. But as if it was fate, someone has approached us about adopting the last puppy in the litter and the person is seeking a good home for the puppy. Didn't think my mum would agree but she's the one who insisted that we bring the puppy home and get it vaccinated and all. I'm still scratching my head about that. So, we are most likely getting a new puppy. Smile Maybe now, I can push her for a 3rd puppy soon!! hehehe

You know it's funny...I've always wanted to buy a puppy...one that I see and I fall in love with and say "i wanna bring him home". But somehow, from dog #1 to the very likely dog #3 were all adopted. All adopted even before we saw them. And all came to us because they couldn't find homes to go to. We are only keeping our fingers crossed that the new fella joining us will not have any health problems like Sparkle. The only bad thing about adoption is, you kinda have to adopt everything that comes with the puppy...

Oh well...perhaps this would work out positively for everyone....esp Sparkle. We're going to be careful about introducing the new pup just in case Sparkle doesn't take it too well. Thinking of introducing them outside of our house first. Let them make friends first and then later take the pup home. I'm really excited!! I've never kept two dogs at the same time before...any suggestions on how to introduce them to each other?


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Jan 19, 2004, 8:38 PM


Views: 15130
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Hi ...

The antiboitics are probably working well and clearing up the infection ... Smile ...

Only bringing the puppy back after introducing them outside Sparke's territory is a good idea ... The more time you let them have getting to know each other in neutral territory the better ...

Good luck on the new addition to the family ...

Cheers Smile ...

PS ... didn't receive your email


BaMaBaBe06
New User

Feb 24, 2004, 6:26 PM


Views: 15070
Re: [cshellz] Mange

I wanted to ask someone on here what is wrong with my puppy and me! My puppy developed this rash/bump thing on her stomach and under her arms. I never payed any attention to it until recently because I have developed small bumps on my skin that look like flea bites or little bumps exactly like hers..She dosent have fleas either and is 6 weeks old, can anyone tell me what this is?


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Feb 25, 2004, 12:35 AM


Views: 15063
Re: [BaMaBaBe06] Mange

Hi, Smile

Little bumps could mean anything. I'd really suggest both you & pup make a visit to the doc & vet if this is a concern to you. It could be just coincidental


Ballistic
Member


Feb 25, 2004, 3:17 AM


Views: 15059
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Hi there,

My GR also had a little mange problem for a while, he lost so much fur but now he's fine. I hope your doggies skin problem is gone for good, but if its not i can recommend u this vet which is pretty good with skin problems.

After 3 painful jabs it looks like the sickness has gone.. However there are small bumps on him which comes out after the jab and will subside in 4 days. Would anyone know what this happens? The bumps are super itchy; i know this coz the poor guy would scratch until it bleeds a little before he stops.


jrooster
New User

Mar 3, 2004, 3:29 PM


Views: 15043
Re: [Ballistic] Mange

Help! Just found this thread and need help. Our 3 month old French Bulldog has developed mange and the Vet is adamant it is a hereditary condition. We've begun all the treatments, prescribed by the Vet and will incorporate some of the homepathic solutions we've seen here (diet, exercise, sunshine,etc.) The Vet says the dog MUST be spayed and never bred, (we paid $400 extra for breeding papers and rights)

Now the questions. The Vet says there is no way the breeder does NOT know her pups have this condition. The breeder is adamant her other pups have never had this condition, however, she will not provide names or #'s for litter mates or other pups she has sold for us to corroborate her statements. Can the Vet be wrong?? (If it is genetic, the breeder owes us another pup, and she is a very nasty woman)

Also, if it is genetic, then why didn't the Pup display symptoms immediately??

If genetic, will it ever go away?

Will it be stress induced, much like Herpes (except it's mites) or just remain and progressively get worse??

We're really sick over this, she was our 14 yr old daughters xmas, not to mention the rediculous prices of these animals. Any comments would be appreciated.


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Mar 3, 2004, 7:54 PM


Views: 15038
Re: [jrooster] Mange

Hello ...

The are several forms of mange ... and I think you and your vet are referring to "Dermodectic Mange" ...

Dermo Mange is caused by the "dermo mite" ... By and large, the dermo mite is present on ALL dogs and puppies ... However, in a healthy and strong dog, the dermo mites are controlled by the dog's natural immunity and resistance ... and there is no problem.

Dermo mites only become a problem when the dog/pup has low immunity or low resistence, then the dermo mites multiply, causing the symptoms that you see in a dog/pup diagnosed with dermodectic mange.

So, what we can say is that ... dogs/pups with low immunity or low resistance ... generally have a greater propensity to developing problematic dermo mange.

It is not so much that the dermo mange/mite is inherited or genetically passed (because almost all dogs/pups have some dermo mites) ...

I believe your vet is trying to say is that the factor of "low immunity or low resistence" may have been genetically passed to the pup from the sire/dam (probably due to careless or irresponsible breeding), thus making dermo infection an issue or problem for the pup ...

You posted: " ... The Vet says there is no way the breeder does NOT know her pups have this condition. The breeder is adamant her other pups have never had this condition, however, she will not provide names or #'s for litter mates or other pups she has sold for us to corroborate her statements. Can the Vet be wrong?? ..."

Well, if I were to address strictly the statement that " ... no way the breeder does NOT know her pups have this condition ..."

Then, it is possible that the breeder may not know that YOUR PUP or your pup's LITTER has dermo mange ... because pups may not exbibit symptoms of dermo mange until they grow older ...

Sometimes, just by looking at a litter, and unless dermo mange had already developed - it is very hard to say whether the pups have low immunity and/or low resistence, which may encourage subsequent occurrence of dermo mange.

But again, what I think your vet is trying to say is that ... a good breeder should know the sire & dam (including their condition of health and background) - and if the sire & dam have bad health or have previously exhibited dermo mange, then they SHOULD NOT have been mated in the first place. Unfortunately, bad or irresponsible breeders don't care!

When a breeder refuses to give you names and addresses of the people who have her pups ... Well, that speaks volumes for itself, and 'nuff said ... no need for my comment even.

A dog that has propensity to dermo mange will carry that propensity through-out its whole life and may pass the poor immunity or resistance to its progeny (that is why, your vet says not to breed from your pup) ... but this is no reason to give up on the dog/pup.

Short term remedy: There are several drugs (and many natural boosters & supplementary treatments) that will help bring dermo mange under control ... and restore good health ...

Long term remedy: The best long term remedy/solution is to provide (A) good healthy nutrition (check the threads on BARF & other natural freshly prepared diets) ... (B) good exercise (this is very important to good health) ... (C) good living conditions and a happy environment (dogs, just like people thrive in a happy home) ...

Basically, if you maintain the dog/pup's good health & condition - you will boost, improve and maintain the dog/pup's good immunity & resistence ... If this is done consistently & properly, the dermo mange condition will be kept under control ... the condition need not get worse ...

Dermo mange is not infectious, and when managed properly, it will not detract from the dog/pup's quality of life or its need to cuddled and cared for in a loving environment and family ...

Oh ... one very important thing to keep in mind ... many pups quite naturally build better immunity and resistance as they grow older and dermo mange is no longer a problem once they mature ...

We too, have a dog with propensity to dermo mange, she is now going on 4yrs old ... she is such a happy dog, so full of life and enthusiasm ... she is a wonderful friend and much loved ...

Cheers Smile ...

PS ... Unless you are prepared to invest time and effort to be a "responsible breeder" ... namely, study the breed's standard, learn to appreciate conformation, structure & temperament, trace bloodlines and study genetics and be prepared to objectively judge the quality of your dog ... you should perhaps not be thinking of breeding your dog anyway.


(This post was edited by surchinmy on Mar 3, 2004, 7:58 PM)


jrooster
New User

Mar 3, 2004, 8:29 PM


Views: 15032
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Thanks a million!! I agree with all of your statements. My conclusion is that any dog displaying symptoms of the Dermo mange, MUST have some degree of inherited immunodeficiency. SOOOO....., again I have to agree with the Vet, this breeder knows she is breeding the deficiency. Therefore, her agregious attitude and lack of cooperation. Are there any recourses available??? Will the AKC accept/act on reports of irresponsible breeders???

Thanks again!


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Mar 3, 2004, 9:34 PM


Views: 15030
Re: [jrooster] Mange

Hi ...

Just a thought ... dogs with dermo mange may or probably suffer from some degree of inherited immune deficiency ... with issues of genetics ... it's awful hard to say "must" or "for sure" ... Dogs from apparently perfectly healthy bloodlines can still get low immunity or some other genetic defect ... it's a fear even good & responsible breeders live with ...

Your rights and remedies will depend on the "contract" you made with the breeder ... Did you and the breeder sign any agreement? If so, check the terms and conditions ...

But I suspect, chances are ... no agreement or contract was signed ... And without a written agreement - your remedies are limited, because it is going to be very hard to prove that the breeder guaranteed or promised you a dog without dermo mange ... It's your word against hers ... If you cannot prove such a guarantee or promise of quality then the general rule is that the buyer buys "as-is-where-is" with all risk ...

You can try complaining to MKA ... all the best to you there ... hope you get some reply ...

Crazy


(This post was edited by surchinmy on Mar 3, 2004, 9:39 PM)


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Mar 20, 2004, 6:44 AM


Views: 15015
Re: [Ballistic] Mange

Hi Ballistic,

My dog is still suffering from Mange...it's going to be a long process unfortunately cause his is round #2 Frown

The 3 painful jabs u mentioned must be Ivermectin jabs. Yeah they do hurt cause Sparkle would whine and cry for some time after the jab. This is one of the reasons why I've taken him off the jab and dip treatments. I've switched him to all the natural remedies for the moment...

I dunno why the bumps appear but I do know what u're referring to. If he does scratch, best is to put him on an e collar until he gets a little better.

Btw, good thing ur GR has recovered. But time to prepare yourself for PREVENTION now. I've read in books that these strong drugs cannot entirely cure it.....it helps to surpress it and if your dog is not strong enough it will come back the second time...and the third. So, best remedy for you now is to work on building a better immune system for your GR....good nutrition, exercise, love etc. Smile

I regret putting him on so many dips and jabs the first time he got mange. Feel guilty for it cause I think it did bring down his immunity...so second round is so much more problematic. *sigh*


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Mar 20, 2004, 6:51 AM


Views: 15014
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Hi SK,

Did you put your dog on the E collar? Sparkle has been on the E collar for so long that his skin around his neck is starting to sag (loss elasticity perhaps). It's saddening to see him like that and I"ve tried to take it out to see if he'll be ok without it. When I'm there he's ok but the moment I leave him alone he scratches himself senseless and ends up bleeding again...

I think the collar hampers his recovery rate. But what other methods can I use? I've thought of wrapping his neck area with gauze swabs to prevent him from scratching his skin directly. You think that can help? My only worry is there might not be enough air circulation and that might aggravate it further.

Another way is to wear socks. But Sparkle has such thin legs the socks falls off in a matter of minutes...hehe Not made to wear socks I guess.


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Mar 20, 2004, 8:37 AM


Views: 15009
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Hi ...

No ... we didn't use the e-collar ... the itchiness was reasonably under control for our dog and the e-collar wasn't necessary ...

Maybe you can try baby socks or baby mittens ... try getting the ones with tongs that you can tighten around his paws ... but maybe most practical if you can use an old cotton t-shirt or similar to fashion a "scarf" around his neck ...

Have you been to see the vet? And if so, what treatment was prescribed?

All the best ... Smile


j_ove2
Member


Mar 26, 2004, 1:07 AM


Views: 14987
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

hi ....
i've been reading this thread fr page 1...n wat can i say other than thank you for the useful advice n information that u've posted. just brought jerrie to the vet yest, he's been diagnosed with dermodectic mange. he even let me view the mites thru the microsope! euwww
yest went home n clean the whole house with clorox, including his cage.
today he'll start on the ivermectin prescribed by the vet. slowly increase the dosage every 5 days. i was worried sick. onli praying hard that he'll recover .. no more skin probs for jerrie....
i forgot to ask the vet whether i shud refridgerate the ivermectin. just went out n bot the sea salt. will try on him later this evening. will also change his kibbles to lamb n rice formula. due to work commitment, i'm so sorry i cannot give him barf. as for the lemon tonic, will try this weekend. will also start giving him home made yogurt. is it too many things to do to him at one time?
just want to make him heal faster. my poor baby...

Cheers!
jaclyn n jerrie


j_ove2
Member


Mar 26, 2004, 1:38 AM


Views: 14986
Re: [cshellz] Mange

hi cshellz,
have been going thru ur posts.. i can understand ur worries. my puppy jerrie had just been diagnosed for mange too. i just hope that Sparkle can recover fr his 2nd round of mange. good luck to the both of us in our fight against mange!!

Cheers!
jaclyn n jerrie


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Mar 26, 2004, 2:28 AM


Views: 14984
Re: [j_ove2] Mange

Hi ...

You are most welcome ... but am sorry to hear that your doggie has dermo mange ...

You actually don't have to disinfect the house etc ... Most (if not all dogs) have dermo mange mites present TongueSmileShocked ... dermo mange only becomes a problem when the dog also has low immunity ...

Yes ... keep the ivermectin in the fridge ... Please follow instructions & dosage carefully.

When changing or modifying diet ... do so in moderation and gradually ... observe your dog and adjust accordingly.

Don't rush things ... dermo is a condition that takes time to resolve ...

Cheers


j_ove2
Member


Mar 26, 2004, 5:08 PM


Views: 14982
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

hi hi
yest while i was at work, jerrie scratched himself to bleed at the neck. was so 'sam thong'!! then had to put iodine for him. but still itchy. i did wipe him with sea salt solution too. sigh i do hope that ivermectin will take effect n make him well again.

Cheers!
jaclyn n jerrie


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Mar 26, 2004, 7:34 PM


Views: 14979
Re: [j_ove2] Mange

... Ah ... okay ... say, if you are using iodine ... then no need for salt solution ... salt solution is just to clean the area ...

Cheers Smile


j_ove2
Member


Mar 26, 2004, 9:55 PM


Views: 14975
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

hi..
is there anything else i can do to stop the itching?? or scratching?? since the wound is at the neck area, can i still use the e-collar?

Cheers!
jaclyn n jerrie


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Mar 27, 2004, 12:47 AM


Views: 14972
Re: [j_ove2] Mange

Hmmm ...

Keep the area clean with mild salt solution ... you can try applying a hotspot lotion, these lotions contain anti-itch properties ...

In cases of severe itching - ask the vet about the possibility of prescribing anti-inflamatory tablets ...

Try and prevent dog from scratching area ... If you need the e-collar to prevent the dog from biting other areas, then I would continue to use the e-collar ...

Cheers Smile


a_evie
Doggyman


Mar 29, 2004, 8:15 PM


Views: 17344
Re: [j_ove2] Mange

so how is the furmaster getting on now?

shalom is also wearing an e-collar to stop her from scratching her infected part...and bravo...now it looks good. but don't take it off until you are absolutely sure that the master is completely healed.


j_ove2
Member


Mar 29, 2004, 10:13 PM


Views: 17341
Re: [a_evie] Mange

hi,
shalom also suffers fr mange? mmm he's still itching. since the wound is at the neck, i refrain fr getting him a collar now. been applying the salt solution n a herbal cream 'Himax' on him. just changed his kibbles to California Natural Lamb n Rice. hope it does help. so, wat else have u been doing to help shalom heal faster? the pet shop suggested that i shave jerrie botak. but i hesitate.

Cheers!
jaclyn n jerrie


a_evie
Doggyman


Mar 30, 2004, 10:24 PM


Views: 17335
Re: [j_ove2] Mange

the shave botak is a good idea...shalom's pic now is 4-5 weeks after been shaved pink like a pig!

grow very fast...so now worries. and easier to clean as well.

shalom was given a medicated wash (4 days once) seb0lyse. then with the help of the e-collar...bravo... it healed up nicely. she was also on a lot of omega, barf was 60% of her diet...and a lot of tlc. tlc because some dogs get mange due to stress triggering an attack...


j_ove2
Member


Mar 30, 2004, 10:30 PM


Views: 17334
Re: [a_evie] Mange

hi,
so where did u go to get shalom shaved? now after switching the food, jerrie dun scratch as much. but i see more n more small small puss around. quite geli.
after shaving botak, isn't it easier for dogs to get other skin infections? i'm hesitating becos of this idea.

Cheers!
jaclyn n jerrie


a_evie
Doggyman


Mar 31, 2004, 1:49 AM


Views: 17330
Re: [j_ove2] Mange

her vet shaved her...and frankly shaving only makes cleaning and monitoring easier.

sometimes food causes allergy. so if you know what triggers the prob...try cutting out. for shalom, i know she is ok without beef.

but we're on barf 60% so its pretty easy for me, just grab mince chicken or lamb or fish plus veges and fruits. and when we are out, its either kibbles or we dash and get her some tuna or if she gets lucky...salmon.


j_ove2
Member


Apr 6, 2004, 11:42 PM


Views: 17318
Re: [a_evie] Mange

hi hi,
jerrie's puss puss hilang liao... maybe becos of the lemon juice spray n also the Himax cream. now onli his muzzle area is red red n flaky. i was wondering if can onli shave the face.so that it's easier for me to put cream. how's shalom?

Cheers!
jaclyn n jerrie


a_evie
Doggyman


Apr 8, 2004, 2:01 AM


Views: 17317
Re: [j_ove2] Mange

hi...glad to hear that jerrie is doing well. yeah...they can shave the face too (only). but did you gie jerrie the e-collar? a correct size can stop jerrie from scratching the infected area.

as for shalom...she is doing great. her skin scraping came out clean. they explained that her red patches are probably because the skin is healing. more blood circulation there...


j_ove2
Member


Apr 8, 2004, 5:08 PM


Views: 17315
Re: [a_evie] Mange

wow...so good to know that shalom has fully recovered. at least another success story...Wink
no i din give jerrie the e-collar, becos he doesn't scratch often anymore. i dun want to stress him more.. hehe. now, he's becoming naughtier... i think it's separation anxiety. often bark when i leave the house.

Cheers!
jaclyn n jerrie


a_evie
Doggyman


Apr 8, 2004, 6:20 PM


Views: 17314
Re: [j_ove2] Mange

aha...shalom does nto even realise her collar is there. to get her to wear it...she gets her vitamins (i call it treats). makan already, she would sit with her head up for me to put it on.

as for separation anxiety...don't fuss when you leave home. just say a simple bye...and calm urself down. remember that our furkids have this innate ability to sense how we feel.

so in shalom's case. i just say. bye...see ya later!

and when i get home...furby...mummy is home...


Riccaval
ALPHA


Apr 9, 2004, 12:25 AM


Views: 17310
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

sk........do u know where we can find Neem Oil?

Have you ever use it b4 in the treatment of mange?

ThanksSmile


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Apr 9, 2004, 3:35 AM


Views: 17306
Re: [Riccaval] Mange

Hi ...

Sometime back ... I saw neem oil being sold in the pharmacy in Jalan 8 Sri Hartamas ... but not sure if they still have stock ...

Alternatively, try an Indian provision shop ... neem oil originates from India ... or try to a ayurvedic centre (I think there is one along Jalan Kemajuan in PJ ... ???) ...

Neem is supposed to have a whole range of properties including anti-fungal as well as acting like an insecticide ... but rather than kill, it repells ... and as such (I would suspect) its usefullness is more preventive than curative.

http://www.organix.net/organix/neem.htm

www.neemfoundation.org/thera.htm

Good luck ...

Will make some inquiries and see if I can locate.

Cheers Smile


Riccaval
ALPHA


Apr 9, 2004, 11:20 PM


Views: 17300
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

thanks....
from what i read....it says kill

Neem Oil for Mange, Fleas and Ticks

Pure, unrefined Neem Oil from India (Azadirachta Indica). Miticide, insecticide, fungicide, nematacide, insect repellent. Known in India as "the village pharmacy" because of its many uses. Excellent external treatment for mange due to its ability to kill the mites that cause mange. Finally a safe, effective treatment for mange without resorting to harmful and expensive chemicals. Excellent for demodectic mange. Also kills fleas and ticks.


I think some shops in Little India or Bollywood should have them.

CheersSmile


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Apr 9, 2004, 11:40 PM


Views: 17297
Re: [Riccaval] Mange

... Ah so ... okay ... kills ... noted ... my error Smile ...

If you find - would appreciate if you let me know where ...

Thanks


(This post was edited by surchinmy on Apr 9, 2004, 11:44 PM)


j_ove2
Member


Apr 12, 2004, 11:33 PM


Views: 17290
Re: [a_evie] Mange

hi hi..
now, me n my bf take turns to go out. pretend to go out one by one.. then jerrie will think that we're going to work.. Wink. then it's better.
now, he's taken up a new hobby. he keeps charging at the door stopper!.. he simply loves it. carries it with him whereever he goes. i'm just worried the rubber used for the door stopper will cause allergy. wat do u think?
as for the mange... fortunately, it's looking positive now.

Cheers!
jaclyn n jerrie


a_evie
Doggyman


Apr 13, 2004, 7:55 PM


Views: 17288
Re: [j_ove2] Mange

if the stopper is cleaned from time to time oklar.

as for taking it along everywhere...its a hase thing. shalom tak hirau her kain busuk now. but rather she has found a new found ol faithful mashimaro. she does not like bunny, tigger or winnie so much now. just her mashimaro...and still her collar!


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Apr 14, 2004, 12:35 AM


Views: 17281
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Hi SK

Took Sparkle for a check up today when Scruffy went for her booster jab. He does look better than the first visit but he's started to scratch his body and chew on his own tail so that's again a concern and he's put on antibiotics round #2.

*sigh* the doc was already suspicious when he found flaky 'dandruff' stuff from Sparkle on the examination table on the first visit but decided to KIV that first. Today he did a scotch tape test on his skin and he's pretty sure Sparkle has a concurrent skin problem along with mange. Sparkle also has Malassezia Dermatitis. PiratePirateFrownUnsure However he doesn't want to confirm that until he's had a better look...going to review him in a month's time.

Looks like Sparkle and I are fighting another battle...........not life threatening or anything but nevertheless it's another long long treatment. Sigh..

Any experience on Malassezia? Anyone else has similar experience? Frown


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Apr 14, 2004, 1:21 AM


Views: 17277
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Hi ...

Malassesia is a yeast infection ... which can be secondary or primary ... depends.

" ... Malassezia pachydermatitis is a common yeast organism that is found on normal and abnormal canine skin and ears. On normal healthy skin it causes no problems, but when the environment of the skin is altered for any one of many reasons, Malassezia can cause severe dermatitis or otitis (inflammation of the skin or ears respectively). Some of the factors that can lead to Malassezia dermatitis include moisture (as in dogs with skin folds or floppy ears with narrow ear canals), excessive waxy or scaly build-up (as in seborrhea), and allergic and bacterial skin disease. Not only is Malassezia a secondary cause of dermatitis in any dog with one of these predisposing conditions, but it may be the primary or initiating cause of skin problems in certain breeds of dogs. This may be related to an alteration in immune response to the yeast ..."

Having concurrent skin condition can complicate matters but ... it is not by any means so unusual. And as one cause is being treated, the dog's own system can start to handle the secondary infection also ... Our Beagle also had Malassezia, which cleared up once the Dermo was sorted out.

Often yeast infection is accompanied with bacterial infection, hence the need to prescribe antibiotics. Quite often, removal of the bacterial infection also removes the yeast infection.

Did the vet prescribe any treatment for the Malassezia other than the antibiotics? ... Recommend any particular shampoo?

The following sites will give an overview of yeast infection:

http://www.vetinfo.com/dyeast.html

http://www.google.com.my/...p;hl=en&ie=UTF-8

All the best Smile


(This post was edited by surchinmy on Apr 14, 2004, 1:24 AM)


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Apr 14, 2004, 9:12 AM


Views: 17273
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Hi SK,

Thanks...read thru both the links. Did some research on my own on other websites too. *phew* Doesn't sound like something Sparkle and I can't overcome, luckily...but still, poor fella...something else to deal with now.

Guess for now I can only continue with the antibiotics and oral Ivermectin as prescribed and meanwhile increase his bathing sessions to twice a week. I've been using the Benzoyl Peroxide shampoo prescribed by the vet for Sparkle but it says in the article that Benzoyl Peroxide should be used when seborrhea oleosa (greasy dander) is present. And if mild to moderate seborrhea sicca (dry, flaky dander) is present, anti seborrheic agents such as sulphur, salicylic acid and selenium sulfide should be used. Sparkle has the dry flaky symptoms....so should I look for a shampoo with the anti seborrheic agents? Any shampoo recommendations? What about Malaseb? And no, vet did not suggest a new shampoo this time.

White vinegar and water for a rinse...in your opinion can that be replaced with ACV?

Well, doc is still reluctant to confirm if it's REALLY Malassezia...but after reading all the websites it does seem like that's exactly what Sparkle is also suffering from. No wonder he's still itchy...and I guess that explains the patch on his body that he scratched with his hind legs and the chewing of his tail. He wasn't itchy when he had his first round of Mange. And it also explains the secondary bacteria infection that recently just cleared up thanks to the antibiotics.

His fur is sprouting from here and there...and I'd say it's a very positive change for him. Smile Hopefully with just a little more adjustments with the topical treatment he can recover from both Mange & Malassezia.

Just out of curiosity...should the vet ever prescribe a dip for the Mange, u think that'll help with the yeast infection too?

Wah...glad ur Beagle recovered from both dermo & malassezia. Can't wait to announce a healthy and recovered Sparkle..hehe... Hopefully that visit to 'exchange some mites' is soon cause that'll mean good news for Sparkle and I Wink mild to moderate seborrhea sicca (dry, flaky dander) is present, use antiseborrheic agents, such as sulfur dander) is present, use degreasing antiseborrheic agents. Benzoyl mild to moderate seborrhea sicca (dry, flaky dander) is present, use antiseborrheic agents, such as sulfur dander) is present, use degreasing antiseborrheic agents. Benzoyl


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Apr 14, 2004, 4:19 PM


Views: 17269
Re: [cshellz] Mange

eh? where did the las part come from??? CrazyCrazy looks like a cut & paste Tongue


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Apr 14, 2004, 11:45 PM


Views: 17263
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Hi ...

Sites of interest:

www.dvmpharmaceuticals.com/dt110.html

www.drjwv.com/faq/?view=32

Perhaps not to do anything without first informing the vet ... I think the vet is trying the antibiotics to see if that (by itself) will help clear the issue of malassezia ... It could also be that the vet does not want to subject Sparkle to any further or other treatment all at one time ... We also need to avoid cross treatment that conflicts with each other.

That said ... I think a good shampoo will assist ... I would actually suggest Episoothe or Sebolux (by Virbac) ... less stringent than Malaseb ... and I like the fact that Virbac produces a range of shampoos from very mild graduating to stronger shampoos ... That gives us a choice of using the mildest possible but effective shampoo ... Both are available locally - the pet shop next to KFC in Taman Tun.

www.entirelypets.com/entirelypets/epmedsham8oz.html

www.healthypets.com/sebmedsham8o.html

But do call and check with the vet ... and tell him what you intend to do and listen to what he has to say ...

In the meantime, let me hit the research and see what homeopathic alternatives there may be.

Cheers Smile

PS ... as best I know ... the dip for mange will not remove fungal/yeast infection (ask vet is best) ... save that by removing the mites, it helps the dog's general immunity and increases resistence to other infection ...




May
Old Hand


Apr 14, 2004, 11:52 PM


Views: 17262
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Just wonder whether Neem oil suitable to be used on a 6 weeks old puppy. My puppy has ticks and probably fleas on its body and the vet said he's too young for any medical treatment.


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Apr 15, 2004, 12:13 AM


Views: 17261
Re: [May, Riccaval] Mange

Ah ... just had discussion with Riccaval (forum member) on Neem Oil not to long ago ...

From what I know ... Neem Oil will help with repelling and killing parasites such as fleas and (hopefully) ticks too ... And should be safe even for young pups ...

Cautions: (a) If you are using concentrated Neem Oil ... you might want to check the internet for the correct way to dilute the oil before application ... Just type "Neem Oil" into google and read all you can ... (b) There is Neem Soap available on the market, but these will be formulated for human skin (with different pH) and may not be so suitable for dogs ...

I remember seeing dog shampoos that contain Neem Oil somewhere ... but I forget where (sorry).

Cheers Smile

PS ... Do check with Riccaval for more thoughts ...


May
Old Hand


Apr 15, 2004, 12:25 AM


Views: 17259
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Thanks for your thought. I suspected I had tick or flea bite on my hand after touching the puppy and it's itchy and swollen now Frown. Got to get rid of the problem fast Mad.

Hope Riccaval will be able to give some input on Neem oil.


Riccaval
ALPHA


Apr 15, 2004, 12:55 AM


Views: 17256
Re: [May,surchimy] Mange

yes there is a shampoo with Neem Oil extract....its marketed by Sdn.Bhd...forgotten the name....will check it up.
As for the original one from India...still looking for itTongue
Cheers


(This post was edited by Riccaval on Apr 15, 2004, 1:00 AM)


Riccaval
ALPHA


Apr 15, 2004, 5:38 AM


Views: 17250
Re: [May,Surchimy] Mange

Found!!...the name of the shampoo is 'St Francis Natural Pet Care - shampoo with Tea Tree,Eucalyptus & Neem Oil'. Should be able to find in most pet shops.

As for the pure Neem Oil.....i think i found it...will let u know the name of the shop in Klang once confirm.

You can also get it online from US from one of the herbal/homoepathic co......but thats only if really necessary.Unsure

CheersSmile


boon
Doggyman


Apr 15, 2004, 5:06 PM


Views: 14687
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

I have something with me call canker powder........brought by from UK ....good for mange and other also. anyone heard of this ?

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --

(This post was edited by boon on Apr 15, 2004, 5:07 PM)


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Apr 15, 2004, 10:09 PM


Views: 14675
Re: [boon] Mange

Hi ...

The only canker powder I have heard of is for ear infections and ear mites ...

Maybe if you post the list of ingredients ...

Cheers Smile


boon
Doggyman


Apr 15, 2004, 10:40 PM


Views: 14672
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Hi SK,

OppsBlush i think i got mixed up.....for Mange is StrongHold......or the traditional way...spray diesel....cage the dog for 2 to 3 days and clean the diesel then spray the mange area with cold water for fur growing.

Or sulfur mix with coconut oil.........

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Apr 16, 2004, 12:21 AM


Views: 14665
Re: [Riccaval] Mange

Thanks ... Smile


tan_ling
Dog Kichi


Apr 20, 2004, 9:39 PM


Views: 14648
Re: [ginl] Mange

SmileUR chammoline is when the lime is in boil then only put or after boil..??Smile


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

May 13, 2004, 6:57 PM


Views: 14569
Re: [boon] Mange

Aaah ... missed this post ... sorry ...

Diesel for mange??? ... Waaah ... that one is super old remedy ... almost as dangerous for dog as for mange mites ... not recommended anymore I don't think ... ShockedCrazy ...

Cheers


boon
Doggyman


May 14, 2004, 4:30 PM


Views: 14556
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Hi,

hahhaha, i think i did mentioned this is the 'traditional' way and if worked........but me personally never try before lah.......Wink

I gotta know this from the trusted source.Tongue

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

May 14, 2004, 6:54 PM


Views: 14550
Re: [boon] Mange

Ahyoooh ... like that ar ... suddenly people start drenching their puppies in diesel, how ar? ...FrownTongueWink ...

In the old days (so, people like me will know TongueWink) ... diesel was applied on animals as a general anti-parasite ... Supposedly, the viscosity of diesel allowed the diesel to cling on to and smother the parasites ...

Apart from having to shave the dog, and messy (really messy) ... it's always been very much a hit and miss method ...

And I'm really not sure if the diesel method is all that effective against mites, because most mites (unlike ticks & fleas) burrow into the dog's skin ...

Cheers Smile


boon
Doggyman


May 14, 2004, 7:31 PM


Views: 14547
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

hahhaa, will check on this further

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


a_evie
Doggyman


May 17, 2004, 11:05 PM


Views: 14510
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

how do you use medicated shampoo on the area above the nose and between the eyes? my latest adopted kiddo (temporary until someone wants himFrown) has mange there. and the vet gave antibiotics and medicated shampoo. i worry that the shampoo will stink that area big time...afterall it says "keep away from the eyes".

i am supplementing with the lemon solution that i've used on shalom previously.


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

May 17, 2004, 11:45 PM


Views: 14507
Re: [a_evie] Mange

Hi ...

When trying to shampoo the area on the nose and between the eyes ... basically, we just place some shampoo on our fingers and then work the shampoo into the area, carefully ... avoiding the eyes ... It's reasonably easy with our dogs 'cos they are used to being bathed and will hold still ...

If you a dog that is not used to bathing or moves a lot ... then I suggest as follows:

(a) Start bathing all the other areas first ... the idea is to get the dog used to you and the motions of bathing ... keep everything calm & relaxed ... calm with gentle long stroking movements when working shampoo into the body ...

(b) Only start working the head AFTER the dog has calmed down and is used to your movement & touch ... Some dogs will actually start to fall asleep ... Whatever you do ... no struggling ... that only makes matters worse.

(c) If necessary get another person to assist by either holding the dog gently or holding a treat (see below) ... whatever works ...

The important thing is to try and keep everything calm and relaxed ... and the shampoo away from eyes. Remember to also stop dog from licking the shampoo ...

Use distraction for the duration of the soaking period ... You can hold out a treat, just to keep dog's attention - don't give the treat, unless you are sure the dog's mouth is clean/clear of shampoo ...

CAUTION:

Please determine the type of mange affecting your new dog - some types of mange are infectious.

I do not know of any shampoo that gets rid of mange. But there are medicated dips that remove mange. Dips and shampoos are different.

Medicated dips are generally forms of pesticide & quite strong (mitaban is a commonly prescribed medicated dip) ... and must be applied carefully ... especially avoiding the eyes.

If what you have is a medicated dip, then use the same method above - and yes, be careful not to get into the eyes. If that happens, wash immediately with lots of water ...

Cheers Smile


a_evie
Doggyman


May 18, 2004, 12:39 AM


Views: 14501
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

dermo mange...and we have been given the usual medicated shampoo.

problem is that the area is actually right next to the eye itself...less than 1 mm away. so i find it quite tough to shower and avoid getting into the eye...sigh.

o...you mentioned peroxide to me before (quite some time back liao)...will it be easier to use peroxide on the eye and nose area and then use puppy shampoo ( i use non tear puppy shampoo for all the dogs' faces).

and can i combine the lemon solution at all times?

gee...i feel so helpless suddenly...thought that after shalom's mange cleared...i really don't have to worry about having another dog with the same prob.


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

May 18, 2004, 1:25 AM


Views: 14497
Re: [a_evie] Mange

Ahhh ... NO ... no peroxide any where near eyes ... peroxide has cauterising effect ... so only for external use ... keep away from eyes ... Crazy

If the spot is so close to the eyes ... then don't worry about it ... just wash the eye area with gentle shampoo ... And as you sort out the demo elsewhere and as dog gets healthier then the dog's own body will take care of the area around the eyes ...

The lemon solution has a drying effect, so be judicious in its use.

Cheers


a_evie
Doggyman


May 18, 2004, 6:23 PM


Views: 14483
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

ok....justs worried that if i neglect the eye and nose area, then the whole darn thing would focus itself there instead...

will watch my usage of lemon. have stopped it on shalom and only using it once a week. thanx to your good advice...the kid is now wholesome and pretty!


xyne
Doggyman


May 19, 2004, 12:13 AM


Views: 14477
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

hi.. do mange affect other areas than nose, eyes, legs?? cos my dog has it on the belly... it has grown the past 2 days.. kinda worried.. vet never mentioned anything about mange though.. but just 'bacteria infection'....

how can i be sure it is mange??


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

May 19, 2004, 12:28 AM


Views: 14475
Re: [xyne] Mange

Hi ...

Mange can affect any part of a dog's body ... It usually shows up as a patch of thinning coat ... with red spots ... can cause dog to nibble or scratch the area ...

Best way to check is to get a vet to do a scraping and examine under microscope ...

Cheers Smile


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

May 19, 2004, 12:41 AM


Views: 14473
Re: [xyne] Mange

Hi ... Have sent you an email ... All the best with Tyson Smile.


xyne
Doggyman


May 19, 2004, 1:02 AM


Views: 14470
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

yes.. got it.. will check with your vet...tx.


meidy
Novice


Jul 21, 2004, 11:23 AM


Views: 13984
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Hi,

what about your dog's skin disorders?

We use a german product (natural, no chemicals), that helps guaranteed!!
Regards Angie
Behaviorist and Health Practitioner

nutritional supplement for dogs skin disorders

dogs scabies rashes
Attachments: skin_disorder_before.jpg (4.33 KB)
  skin_disorder_after.jpg (6.17 KB)


fred
Novice

Aug 6, 2004, 2:40 AM


Views: 13956
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Hi, I've been following this topic for quite sometime liao, i think my doggie oso got this kind of mange leh. Anyone knows where can i have the best vet that is expert in mange CrazyCrazy headache la......sigh!!!!!!!! or any useful method to prevent it to become more worst ????

PLEASE HELP ME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


fred
Novice

Aug 6, 2004, 2:52 AM


Views: 13955
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Hi, i've been reading your posting for sometimes. i think my doggie got mange lah......can u please help me on this matter ???? i very kek sim la see my doggie like this. I was told by some vets that this kind of disease will keep on coming back and will goes to the next generation too.

Any input on this mange are very welcome..........

thanks in advance to all bro's and sist.


fred
Novice

Aug 6, 2004, 6:21 AM


Views: 13950
Re: [fred] Mange

Hi, guys today i went to a supermarket to look for pure lemon juice and i found 1 but im not sure about the ingredients in it. Anyone can help me on this ? lemon juice from concentrated (water, concentrated water) lemon juice, sodioum bisolfile (preservative) sodium benzoate preservative and lemon oil.

I oso bought olive oil to add in his food, will this help ??? I also heard that cheese will help too. bro can give ur advice ???

thanks

best regards


(This post was edited by fred on Aug 6, 2004, 6:27 AM)


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 6, 2004, 10:17 AM


Views: 13940
Re: [fred] Mange

Hi ...

There are several types of mange infection ... and the treatment for each is different ...

So, if you suspect your dog has mange ... the first thing to do is to get your dog to a vet and (a) confirm that it is mange (some skin conditions can exhibit mange-like symptoms ... and (b) confirm the type of mange infection ...

Your vet will have to do a skin scraping and examine under a microscope ... Suggest you find a vet who is experienced & familiar with mange and has the patience to treat mange in the long term ...

Sometimes in the case of demodectic mange, it goes away when a puppy grows up ... but there is no guarantee that will be the case for all or even most dogs ... But otherwise, proper treatment is required to ensure that the condition does not get worse, and is brought under control.

Demodectic mange is generally accepted as a hereditary problem, that can return again and again if the dog is not kept in good health ... Scacoptic mange is a more infectious form of mange but probably easier to be brought under control and can be eradicated completely ...

The various home remedies like cleaning with lemon juice and/or vinegar solution ... are all reasonably effective provided that (a) you know how to prepare the solution properly, and (b) the condition is not to severe ... Also remember, homeopatic remedies require patience and diligence on your part ... and must ought to be complimented with good and proper comprising of fresh food ...

Unless you are reasonably experienced and familiar with dog coat/skin conditions, with a fair understanding of nutrition ... I would not suggest home treatment - take your dog to a good vet and get professional help ...

Check these threads:

www.puppy.com.my/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=search_results&search_forum=all&search_string=mange&search_type=AND&search_fields=sb&search_time=&search_user_username=surchinmy&mh=25

Alternatively ... get into Google and do a search on ... Mange ... Demodectic Mange ...

All the best

Cheers


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 6, 2004, 10:28 AM


Views: 13939
Re: [fred] Mange

If you are thinking of using lemon to combat mange ... then what you need is "fresh" lemon juice (not the type you buy at supermarkets) ... which then has to be fermented together with the skins of the lemons before use ...

Olive oil is reasonably good for the skin but not in large amounts (the fat found in fresh meat is probably better) ... And evening primrose oil is probably more effective ...

Cheese is acceptable for general nutrition - provided you get the correct type of cheese ... Soft cheese usually contains too much lactose, and can cause stomach upset in dogs with lactose intolerance (and most dogs are lactose intolerant) ... But I don't think cheese is going to help with mange ...

Seriously ... if you wish to treat mange by yourself - you need to do a lot of research and reading up ... Otherwise, take your dog to a good vet who understands mange ...

Cheers


fred
Novice

Aug 6, 2004, 4:36 PM


Views: 13928
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Hi bro, thanks for your advice. I think i'll go to the vet, do u know any vet that is good to recommend ???? i'm staying in cheras and dont mind to go anywhere in klangvalley area to get a best vet......

As for the lemon juice thingy im not familiar with the way to prepare it lah.......what if i just squeeze the fresh lemon mix up with water to bath him, will this help too ??? I'm trying to look for sea salt, can i know where can i get it ???

thanks


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 7, 2004, 3:52 AM


Views: 15648
Re: [fred] Mange

Hi ...

Try the vet clinic in Damansara Heights at Medan Damansara ... cannot miss ... only one there ...

You can find sea salt in Cold Storage Bangsar (I think) ... try the larger supermarkets ...

Use Search function and key in the word "lemon" ... the correct way to prepare a lemon solution has been posted in the Mange thread ...

Cheers


fred
Novice

Aug 7, 2004, 4:05 AM


Views: 15647
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Thanks a million, i'll try this out.......


fred
Novice

Aug 8, 2004, 12:40 AM


Views: 15630
Re: [meidy] Mange

Hi, from the picture u posted isit due to mange ? its quite serious hor.......


fred
Novice

Aug 10, 2004, 11:38 PM


Views: 15618
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Hi, i've bring my doggie to the vet today and its confirm demo mange sigh.......CrazyPirate, i bought this adult dog from a breeder leh....so do u think its wise to return this little fellow to the breeder ???? I donno they will give me back my $$ or not sighhhhhh!!!!!!!!!! feel like end of the world liao........really headache now Crazy


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 11, 2004, 12:07 AM


Views: 15612
Re: [fred] Mange

Sorry ... but am not sure why you feel that it's the end of the world ...

Do you love your dog? ... That is probably the only question to be asked ...

If you love your dog ... then dermo mange is just something you will deal with ... It is not life threatening to your dog, it's a condition that can be made better with proper understanding and knowledge ... It doesn't make your dog less worthy of being loved ...

Just check the threads and the internet, and you will realise that its very possible to manage and treat dermo mange successfully ...

If you don't love your dog ... then that's a whole different matter ...

If you don't love your dog, then yes, dermo mange can be an issue ... and dermo mange may be too much trouble to contend with ...

If you don't love your dog ... then give the dog back to the breeder ... Whether you get your money back or not is is really moot ... or give your dog to someone who is prepared to care for the little fella & his mange ...

While you did pay money for your dog (as you would have, if you bought another commodity) ... unlike other commodities or thing ... a dog is well capable (in a dog kinda way) of returning your loyalty and your love ... a dog is capable of feeling sad and happy ... a dog has life ...

The only question you have to ask is ... when you bought the dog, did you also commit yourself to this life you purchased? Or did you just buy a thing?

All the best. Decide wisely ... with your heart.

Cheers


(This post was edited by surchinmy on Aug 11, 2004, 12:09 AM)


fred
Novice

Aug 11, 2004, 12:23 AM


Views: 15608
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Thanks for ur fast reply bro. I've decide to keep him but the cost for the treatment is very high and this mange will keep on coming back as what the vet told me. Now this little fella got mange, fungus and bacteria all in secondary stage liao......donno what to doCrazy.

Actually this is my 1st time mah....1st time already kena liao.....really no mood lor. If its u i think u oso will sad, rite ?

MadMad


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 11, 2004, 12:51 AM


Views: 15604
Re: [fred] Mange

Hi ...

In many ways ... we do know what it is like ... as they say ... "been there done that" ... Your situation is not so different from what happened to us, with our first dog ... Our first dog (bought from a pet shop) also had dermo mange, she had a blood infection and bad skin condition ... she was undersized (which we didn't know then) ... she was sick ...

We found out when we took her to the vet ...

First, there was anger ... and frustration with being sold a dog that was not well, not healthy ... we felt cheated ...

Then there was fear of the unknown ... not knowing what to do ... where to turn ... how to look after a sick dog ... we felt lost ... The vet we saw filled us with horror stories about how bad & difficult it could be ... etc ...

And then we asked ourselves the "question" ... the very same question posted in my post above ... And we came to an answer ... we have never regretted it since ... It took effort and time but our dog is now healthy, happy and we belong to each other ... If you keep the dog healthy and strong, with good immunity system (through good food & exercise) ... dermo mange can be kept away.

But it is a very personal and private question ... and each individual must find his or her own answer ... The only thing I can say is - listen to your heart ...

If you choose to keep the dog ... that is good ... But if you truely feel that you cannot manage or keep the dog ... then maybe consider giving the dog to a person who can help the dog ... Perhaps returning the dog to a breeder who bred such a dog in the first place - may not be such a good idea ...

All the best


(This post was edited by surchinmy on Aug 11, 2004, 1:43 AM)


fred
Novice

Aug 11, 2004, 1:10 AM


Views: 15600
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Bro, thanks for sharing what u've experienced b4. So sad to hear that too sighhhhhh........i'll take your advice to keep him healthy. I'll try my best to help this fella but those vets telling me a lot of scary things lar....this makes me no confidence liao lor. Lucky u r here....hehehehe.

If in future u have any new remedies, can u pls share with me ??? thanks in advance bro...... I'll try those remedies u've posted earlier, hope this will help.


fred
Novice

Aug 11, 2004, 1:19 AM


Views: 15598
Re: [fred] Mange

Hope this will help some.........

TREATING DEMODECTIC MANGE NATURALLY



Demodectic Mange (Demodex canis), also called Red Mange, is a non-contagious skin disease caused by a tiny, eight-legged parasitic mite that lives in the hair follicles and skin glands of dogs. Puppies are infected with mites from contact with the skin of their mother while nursing. The disease is seen in two forms:

· Localized mange, which is confined to a few small areas such as the face or front feet,
and is relatively easy to treat, occurs in puppies under one year of age.

· Generalized mange is much more severe, and treatment is not always successful.

Most dogs have a microscopic mite population hitching a ride on their body, but the dog's immune system handles it all very nicely. When the immune system is no longer able to control the mites, they begin multiplying, then attacking. It is thought that dogs infected with demodectic mange are immunodeficient. In other words, they are not able to fight off the mites like a healthy dog would. Heredity is believed to play a part in dogs that show signs of demodectic mange so it is strongly recommended that infected dogs be spayed or neutered. Signs of disease appear only when mites reproduce unchecked and occur in unnaturally high numbers. Outbreaks are seen around the eyes, lips and/or lower limbs when the numbers of these mites increase.

Because the immune system does not mature until 12-18 months of age, a dog with demodectic mange may have relapses until that age. It is important for treatment to begin promptly to minimize the possibility of developing uncontrollable problems. Demodectic mange in dogs over 2 years of age is classified as adult-onset, and usually occurs secondary to an underlying cause. Successful treatment of adult-onset mange relies upon identifying and correcting the underlying cause. Dogs with immune suppression due to illnesses like hypothyroid disease, and Cushing's disease, are also candidates for demodectic mange. Demodectic mange may also occur in very old dogs because function of the immune system often declines with age.

Some dogs infected with demodectic mange may have secondary skin infections. The skin becomes dry, crusty, and brittle, it will ooze serum, blood or pus. A strong, offensive skin odor may be present due to a bacterial infection. The secondary infection responds to antibiotics like cephalexin or clavamox.

Conventional treatment depends upon the severity of the disease. Generally, veterinarians recommend treatment with a dip containing Amitraz. The dip is repeated every 7-10 days. Although the dog may respond well to the dip and look normal, dipping must be continued until negative skin scrapings are found consistently for a few weeks. The dipping may have side effects. Sleepiness and itching are common for 24 hours after the dip. Some dogs many experience decreased body temperature, vomiting, diarrhea, and loss of appetite, excitability, staggering, or other personality changes. If any of these side effects occur you should contact your veterinarian immediately.

Amitraz can reduce the function of the hypothalamus, which helps regulate the body's metabolism by controlling hormone release in the body. In animal studies, amitraz caused episodes of increased aggression, as well as some central nervous system depression. In addition to the dip, to treat more generalized cases of mange, many veterinarians are now prescribing daily doses of Eqvalan, which is liquid ivermectin. Dr. Jean Dodds has written extensively about ivermectin as a trigger for immune-mediated diseases. Ivermectin should not be used in combination with Amitraz dip nor with Amitraz tick prevention collars. These medicines are all members of the monoamine oxidase inhibitor group; when they are used together their effects combine together creating sedation and adverse neurologic effects.

Conventional treatments do work but at what expense to your dog's health? Since conventional veterinary medicine relies heavily on a highly toxic method of treatment, and suppressed immune function is the cause of demodectic outbreaks, you should consider an alternative. Using a combination of natural diet, vitamins, minerals and herbs, you support the immune system while treating the skin.

Food selection:

Immune suppressed dogs require a high quality, all natural food. Select a raw food diet, a cooked diet, or an ultra premium dry food with lots of raw pulverized vegetables. Select organically grown vegetables or use one of the pesticide cleaners available in supermarkets for use on fruits and vegetables. Add leafy dark green vegetables, cruciferous vegetables — broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, watercress, bok choy, and carrots (carrots should be blanched one minute to release the carotenes). If you feed raw foods, increase the veggies.

To each meal: sprinkle a teaspoon of sesame seed oil--on the food. This is an important oil for immune function and skin repair. Also add a variety of dried sea vegetables like wakami, nori, dulce and kelp. The sea vegetables should be offered at least 4-5 days a week or even every day if your Akita likes it. Feed fish, boneless poached or canned fish. Do not use tuna, tuna and swordfish are laden with mercury; sardines, salmon, mackerel or fresh water fish are good choices. When giving fish, cook some white rice and mix with the fish. Avoid grains like wheat or rye--rice, barley and oats are okay.

NO VACCINES. Not even one. The immune system in these dogs is already severely stressed; they do not need additional viral components circulating in the blood. Stop using all chemicals including dips, flea/tick spot-ons, pills, or flea collars. You are attempting to reinstate immune function not add to the collective damage.

The following supplements are for the immune system and should be given daily. If you find a product that combines these antioxidants in one capsule, use it:

· Zinc: 50mg (chelated type)
· Selenium: 200mcg (There is a product called Selene E from Twinlabs. It contains
the right amount of selenium and Vitamin E)
· Vitamin E: 400 IU twice daily
· Cod liver oil capsules: 3 gel caps twice daily
· One gel cap daily: 25,000 IU of Marine carotene (it is available in health food
stores—another Twinlabs product.
· Vitamin C with bioflavonoids: start at 500mg and work up to 3,000mg by increasing in
increments of 500mg weekly. If your dog develops a loose stool, back off by 500mg
and maintain the level.
· Nutritional yeast: one tablespoon daily
· Lecithin granules: one teaspoon daily
· Milk thistle: follow directions on bottle for an adult human.
· One-half teaspoon of bee pollen (optional but great nutrients)
· Hokamix 30, a vitamin/mineral/herbal supplement: follow directions on container

The following herbs are to boost her immune system and fight bacterial infections. Wherever possible purchase organic herbs that are "Standardized."

· Olive Leaf Extract: Follow directions on bottle.
· Astragulus: Follow directions on bottle.
· Cat's Claw: Follow directions on bottle.
· Kyolic garlic: Follow directions on bottle.
· Pau d'Arco: 4 capsules twice daily.
· Grapefruit Seed Extract Capsules or tablets: 225mg daily.
· Flax seed oil (organic) gel caps: one twice daily.
· Plant based digestive enzymes available at health food stores. Give two
capsules per meal.

Add a few tablespoons of plain yogurt to each meal or give acidophilus supplements. It is very important to maintain good intestinal bacteria when fighting parasites.

Homeopathics: Do not touch the pellets with your hand, simply twist or shake them into the little cap and pour into the dog’s mouth:

· Sulphur 6X: one tablet in am and one in pm: use for 10 days.
· Silica

FOR THE TOPICAL TREATMENTS: Consider the degree of sensitivity of the open sores. If your dog is very sore and sensitive, you can give two valerian capsules an hour before you use the solutions. It is an herbal tranquilizer-very safe-that will take the edge off and make the dog more comfortable. After a few days, she won't need valerian because she will begin to heal enough to treat without help. If the inflamed skin is severe, ask your veterinarian for lidocaine spray and use it sparingly to control surface pain before applying topical treatment. Pain adds stress and stress should be avoided. You should experiment to find the most effective solution with the least discomfort. Start carefully with a dilution to see how much your dog can tolerate.

Purchase the herbs as liquid extracts; the grapefruit seed extract is available as a liquid.

Topical treatment #1

Mix a combination of one part lavender oil, one part Neem oil, to 9 parts almond oil. Apply to
sores and infected areas once or twice daily.

Topical treatment #2

Mix ten drops of yellow dock extract with ten drops of Echinacea extract, dilute with four ounces of distilled water and apply. Yellow dock is effective as an itch treatment. Other herbs that help with itching are calendula and aloe vera.

Topical Treatment #3

Make up a mixture of three tablespoons fresh lemon juice mixed with two ounces of witch hazel and four ounces of distilled water: Add 10 drops of grapefruit seed extract and six drops each of tea tree oil, golden seal root, olive leaf extract, and pau d'arco. Keep away from the eyes. Spray or dab onto sores once a day.

After each application each case, allow the topical solutions to dry.

The following Bach Remedies are an adjunct to this program: Bach remedies are flower extracts that help with the psychological effects of disease and emotional upsets. Combine equal parts of the following remedies into one dark glass bottle, and a small amount of distilled water. Keep the remedies in a cool dark place. Add about 15 drops to the water bowl daily:

· Agrimony
· Crab Apple
· Cherry Plum
· Walnut
· Beech

NO DRUGS. NO CHEMICALS. NO DIPS. Each of these will further damage the immune system.

It is difficult if not impossible to get an accurate reading of thyroid function when the dog is ill with demodectic mange. This is especially true when dips and biocides are used initially as a treatment. To assist the immune system in recovery, I suggest starting a trial with Soloxine. Soloxine does not shut down thyroid function it assists the gland by adding hormone to the bloodstream. Once the dog is well, you can stop the Soloxine and if the dog had normal thyroid function prior to the demodectic event, the gland will resume the same level of function after thirty days. The danger is not using thyroid hormone replacement in a dog with hypothyroid disease and since accurate testing is difficult under the circumstances, using Soloxine by Daniels is recommended. Of course, discuss all of this with your veterinarian or seek out a homeopathic veterinarian. A list of homeopathic veterinarians is available at: www.altvetmed.com/ahvmadir.html


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 11, 2004, 1:36 AM


Views: 15595
Re: [fred] Mange

Hi ...

One thing though ... find a good vet to give you & your dog support ... a vet who is experienced and knows the various stages of demo mange and the appropriate treatment ... I suggest you go to the vet clinic in Medan Damansara ... and see the vet there (Dr. Simon) ... A good vet can make all the difference. A good vet will know exactly what to do, give you the correct advice and give your dog the right treatment ... A good vet will not frighten you unecessarily ...

The article you posted gives good information and advice ... but you will still need the support of a good vet ...

The important thing now is to start with the proper treatment asap ... don't try too many alternatives (sometimes trying too many things at once can cause as many difficulties as not doing enough at the correct time) ... If your dog has a bad case of demo, then (depending on the breed & age of your dog) ivermectin may be the best way to go to quickly bring the demo mange under control ... a good vet will know how to prescribe the ivermectin in the correct dosage ...

As for using Amitraz (mitaban) solution ... it depends ... cannot say without seeing dog ... again a good vet will know.

In the meantime, it will be good if you start doing research on proper dog nutrition ... find out all you can about the differences between a freshly prepared diet and a kibble diet ... the differences between the different types of kibble ...

Work out your budget and time, and then make the best decision you can ...

Will be away for 10 days or so ... All the best to your dog and you ...

Cheers


(This post was edited by surchinmy on Aug 11, 2004, 1:39 AM)


fred
Novice

Aug 11, 2004, 1:44 AM


Views: 15591
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Hi bro, thanks again for your advice and recommendation. I really appreciate it......Tongue. U oreadi contribute a lot to this forum..u should take a short break and don't too long yea many ppl here needs u hahahaha.

Take care and all the best to u too bro, cheers !!!!!!!!


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 11, 2004, 2:00 AM


Views: 15588
Re: [fred] Mange

... Thanks

Smile


fred
Novice

Aug 14, 2004, 3:26 AM


Views: 15539
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Hi bro, i've found neem oil oledi. Actually how to use this ah ? just apply on those part that got affected ah ? do i have to mix up with something to apply on it ?

thanks


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 20, 2004, 6:05 AM


Views: 15510
Re: [fred] Mange

Hi ...

Please read earlier post ... I strongly suggest you take your dog to an experienced vet before trying home remedies.

As for neem oil, how you use it depends on the type of neem oil you have obtained ...

If the need oil you have is in concentrated form, then it is advisable to dilute before use ... you can dilute with olive oil ... but how much to dilute and what concentration to use - depends on the neem oil you have ... As you can see, using home remedies is not as easy as it sounds ...

Cheers


fred
Novice

Aug 20, 2004, 6:16 AM


Views: 15508
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Hi nice to hear from u.....so hows your holiday ??

I've bring him to the vet so i oso must try something at home also. tha vet recommend me invec??? forgot the name and they said is very very good to treat mange problem. Have u ever heard this ??? i dowan go for the dip 1 coz risky la...

Bro thanks for your advice on those remedies thingy. I think will give up the neem oil lah dont know how to use it......


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 20, 2004, 9:19 AM


Views: 15490
Re: [fred] Mange

Hi ...

Maybe you are not reading the postings carefully ... You have to balance what you do at home with the treatment that the vet is providing ...

The drug is called "ivermectin" ... read the article you posted ... the information you need is there ...

" ... In addition to the dip, to treat more generalized cases of mange, many veterinarians are now prescribing daily doses of Eqvalan, which is liquid ivermectin. Dr. Jean Dodds has written extensively about ivermectin as a trigger for immune-mediated diseases. Ivermectin should not be used in combination with Amitraz dip nor with Amitraz tick prevention collars. These medicines are all members of the monoamine oxidase inhibitor group; when they are used together their effects combine together creating sedation and adverse neurologic effects ..."

There is no miracle cure for demo ... it's a question of understanding the condition ... and then trying to figure out what is best for your particular dog ...

Cheers


(This post was edited by surchinmy on Aug 20, 2004, 9:21 AM)


fred
Novice

Aug 21, 2004, 5:28 PM


Views: 15447
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

HI bro surchinmy, today i just have a closer look at my dog and i found that there is something like pimples with yellow thing inside (loong). Another thing is that those part which infected to yeast already dry up. when i scratch it dry skin came out is it a good sign ? but it sheds alot isit normal and i also saw some new hair is coming out too.

I've called up the vet to ask they said its like that 1, i got no choice so have to come to u again sorry bro. This is my 1st time to have a pup with no expereince so have to ask here ask there lo......don't mind yea.

The vet also ask me to bath my pup with malaseb or sebolyse 3 times a week and this will help to clean up those yeast faster. isit true ?

hope u can help me on this ......thanks


(This post was edited by fred on Aug 21, 2004, 5:38 PM)


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 21, 2004, 7:02 PM


Views: 15439
Re: [fred] Mange

Hello ...

(A) Unless you are experienced ... it is not easy trying to diganose a dog's coat/skin condition and attempting home treatment ...

(B) It is even more difficult trying to diagnose a coat/skin condition over a forum like this, without being able to see the dog ...

Which is why I posted before, that you must take your dog to an experienced vet for proper examination ...

Many coat/skin conditions exhibit similar symptoms ... sometimes yeast/fungal conditions are only secondary infections, and it is necessary to identify the primary cause/infection for bad coat/skin and treat that too ...

Typically ... if a dog has yeast infection ... there are medicated shampoos that will help ... but the condition is complicated if the dog also has demo mange ... And you really do need the assistance of an experienced vet.

"Pimples with yellow thing inside" ... sounds like a pus pistule ... which is symtomatic of a skin infection.

If your current vet is not helpful or not giving you the advice/information you think you need ... then find another vet ... that will be the correct and safest thing to do ...

I am concerned as to whether the dog's coat & skin has been correctly examined and diagnosed ...

Cheers


fred
Novice

Aug 22, 2004, 12:01 AM


Views: 15418
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

thanks bro, ill bring my pup to another vet in brickfield on monday or tuesday, the shampoo i used to bath it with is malaseb and today ill bath him again......


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 7, 2004, 10:04 PM


Views: 15215
Re: [fred] Mange

Hi there Smile

How is your dog doing now? Better I hope! Anyway, if your dog is still suffering from mange, take him to the vet that Surchinmy suggested. He treated my dog and my dog recovered fast and *touch wood* hasn't had the problem again since.

I know how troublesome mange is...my dog had two rounds of it and the last time was very very bad.

But Surchinmy is right, you need to read more and once you have decided on what home remedies to use, make sure you know what you're really doing and stick to that for some time. These natural remedies won't show results in a day. The lemon solution is easy to prepare and can be kept for some time and it's easy to apply.

Their diet is important as well. When my dog had mange I put him on BARF. He's now back to a diet of BARF & kibbles on alternate days but still taking blended fruits & vege (mostly green apples and carrots). Once in i give them lamb. I think all these helps with the overall health of the dog which is why my dogs are more healthy now and mange free till now.

I know it's tempting to try every method there is to treat your dog. It's a traumatic time for both u and your dog...hehehe i went through that too. Surchinmy will know TongueWink But get a god vet, stick to his advise and don't stress your dog out with too many home remedies.

It's good that u're staying away from the dips. After putting my dog through it before, I think it causes more harm than good.

Good luck! Cool


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 7, 2004, 10:06 PM


Views: 15212
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

hi sk Smile

hope you & doggies all doing ok? Wink


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 7, 2004, 10:41 PM


Views: 15203
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Hi ...

Glad to hear that Sparkle is doing good ... Smile ...

All is well with us ... thanks ...

It's been busy ... we rescued 3 pups and 2 adults, about 2 months ago ... and that has kept us busy ...

2 of the pups have found homes, one pup is still with us (and growing well ... keeping fingers crossed, and hoping there is a good home for him too) ...

Of the 2 adults, one ran away (*sigh*) ... The remaining adult (about 11months old) is very timid and wary of people ... so it's a long slow journey trying to earn her trust (but still, it's not going too badly, so cannot complain Tongue) ...

Trust all is well with you, family and doggies too.

Cheers


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 9, 2004, 12:05 AM


Views: 15188
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

We had a little problem with the ticks as our new neighbours who rented the hse next door brought in 3 dogs and all seriously tick infested.

They have since moved out with their 3 dogs and now both my dogs are quite tick free...i still see one or two every now and then. I sent Scruffy for a botak cut...hehehe cause her fur was so long and it was grey....a bit hard for us to work on the tick problem. RM80 and I got a botak dog alright...and they tried to do a schnauzer cut for her face which made her look somewhat like a schnauzer with the tail undocked.

Sparkle's skin is ok but occasionally some weird patches start to form and gets a little bad when he licks on it but the lemon solution and diluted ACV seem to turn himself off. Wink Doesn't help that Scruffy bullies him ALL the time and loves to chew on him. Pirate Scruff's the Alpha dog....Sparkle is terrified of her.

Where did you find all these pups and dogs? Your dogs with citizenship in your house must be wondering why there are dogs who come and go lately. Tongue No worries with the timid one la...with the kind of food that your wife prepares for the dogs, ANY dog would love her. Smile

All's ok except extremely busy lately. My dogs have suffered a little too...it's been a few weeks since I brushed their teeth *opps* or filed their nails. Walks are getting a little less. I try to make it up by playing catch games with them at night....they run about and get excited and tired and I just have to sit there and yell encouragement. hehehe Cool


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 9, 2004, 9:00 AM


Views: 15172
Re: [cshellz] Mange

We rescued the pups from a drain (where they were living) and the adults were caught by dog catchers ...

Fortunately our dogs took real well to the puppies ... CasperBlueEyes ... MonkeyDotCom ... and PiggieMackintosh ...

Casper and Monkey have been adopted ... Piggie seems to be very happy where he is (with us ... *LOL*) ... So, will wait and see what happens.

We are keeping the adult at another location ...

Hmmm ... if Sparkle is still having little recurring bouts ... maybe you can try reducing his overall protein intake and see how that helps ... Nutro have come out with a low protein kibble ... approx:16% only ... and that seems to help dogs with a general hotspot, itching or scratching tendencies ...

We don't really bother with brushing the doggies teeth ... too much hassle ... much easier to just give meaty bones and an occassional greenie ... Seems to work for us ... all the doggies have clean white teeth ...

Even Blessing (who had tartar, when we first found him) is doing real good with the bones, his teeth have cleaned up a lot ... and he doesn't even have to go for scaling now ...

Cheers


Tuckersmommy
New User

Oct 22, 2004, 3:28 PM


Views: 14852
Re: [htpol] Mange

hello...my dog was just diagnosed with Pseudomonas today and it has me worried...could you direct me to a site that would give good information for dogs and their treatment.

Did you have a dog with that problem? Would you mind sharing if this was a personal problem with your pet...thank you!!


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Oct 22, 2004, 7:54 PM


Views: 23633
Re: [Tuckersmommy] Mange

Hi ...

As best I know ... pseudomonas is an opportunistic bacterial infection that is often resistant to first line antibiotics ...

Try these sites and see if there is any information useful to you ...

www.dermapet.com/prod-11.html

www.marvistavet.com/html/body_ear_infections.html

www.emedicine.com/PED/topic2701.htm

All the best


htpol
Novice

Oct 22, 2004, 9:43 PM


Views: 23629
Re: [Tuckersmommy] Mange

Hi,

Pseudomonas is resistant to most of the antibiotic. If the diagnosis is correctly, you can try Otomax with the content of Gentamycin, it's about 85% of successful rate to treat Pseudomonas. Alternatively, you can try Panolog but it's less effective than Otomax. Try to apply Otomax than spray with Orgaderm Spray. Itshould improve within 2 weeks.


fatt__
Novice


Dec 29, 2004, 7:19 PM


Views: 23444
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Hi Surchinmy,

My dog is also suffer from the skin problems. I'm not so sure that what is the exactly cause. I've seen two vet. The first vet told me that my dog has the malasseis(dont know the spelling) bacteria and give the medicine for that particular bacteria. after the medication, he still feel itchy and keep on scratching also.

Last week, i've visited the third vet. He've checked out that the malasseis bacteria has gone. but, he was not sure what is the major cause of the itching and he give me the steriod and antibiotic. i also use the medicated shampoo to bath him. But, he still feel itchy.

for the diet, i give him canidae. it is ok ?

This morning i've tried the lemon method. after,i put on his body. he still feel very itchy and it seen not worked or i need to do it few times then the lemon method will be worked?

Sometimes, he scratched his body until red and injured. Is it ok that i sponge him with the detol to kill the gem or bacteria? I can see the detol help his injured area cured.

Thanks

fatt


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Dec 29, 2004, 9:13 PM


Views: 23435
Re: [fatt__] Mange

Hi ...

Sorry to hear about your dog ...

I think you mean "malassezia" ...

" ... Malassezia pachydermatitis is a common yeast organism that is found on normal and abnormal canine skin and ears. On normal healthy skin it causes no problems, but when the environment of the skin is altered for any one of many reasons, Malassezia can cause severe dermatitis or otitis (inflammation of the skin or ears respectively). Some of the factors that can lead to Malassezia dermatitis include moisture (as in dogs with skin folds or floppy ears with narrow ear canals), excessive waxy or scaly build-up (as in seborrhea), and allergic and bacterial skin disease ..."

Some things to remember:

(A) In about 50% of dogs - malassezia is a secondary infection ... meaning that malassezia is NOT the PRIMARY CAUSE of the dog's skin condition - therefore, treating malassezia alone, may not be sufficient. The underlying problem with the dog's coat MUST also be diagnosed and treated. The underlying or primary problem can be anything from seborrheaa, allergies or some other parasitic infection ...

(B) When a dog has complicated skin condition - the prescription of antibiotics & steroids often only provides short term relief ... once the medicine runs out - the problem returns ... Again, without identifying the possible PRIMARY CAUSE of the problem, simply prescribing general medication is often of little long term use.

You should ask your vet all the questions you have - a good vet will always make the time to give you his views and opinions. You must evaluate your vet (as you would evaluate your own doctor) ... and see if you are happy with that vet's method of treating your dog. If you are confident in your vet - then let your dog remain in that vet's care, if you are not happy, then seek 2nd opinion from another vet ... You should know when & why - when you change vets.

My suggestion is to take your dog to a good & exeprienced vet for proper tests and diagnosis ... sometimes the vet may have to go through a process of elimination to find the possible PRIMARY CAUSE ... skin infections can be hard to diagnose Crazy. So return trips to the SAME vet for follow-up examination may be necessary.

(C) Similarly - unless you know what the PRIMARY CAUSE is - applying home or homeopatic remedies may also be of little or no use.

If your dog is scratching so hard - until there are wounds ... then obviously the irritation is serious ... once wounds appear, the dog's condition can be complicated by other bacterial & fungal infections ...

And unfortunately - the PRIMARY CAUSE can be anything from a food or environmental allergy to parasitic infection ... And it is impossible to say over a forum, without seeing the dog. Certainly a good vet will be able to assist.

Until you determine the cause of the skin infection - I also suggest you stop using the lemon solution (which can dry the skin) ... if you wish to use dettol, make sure it is a very mild solution (dettol with plenty of water) ...

For the time being (and until a vet diagnoses the condition) ... I would simply use a mild solution of natural sea or rock salt in water ... and just wipe the the area 3 to 5 times a day ... the salt solution is a mild disinfectant (to keep wounds clean) and will help soothe the area ...

Alternatively ... a very mild solution of neem oil (well diluted in a carrier oil, eg: olive oil) ... may also be of some use. You can find pure neem oil in some pharmacies or in the Indian medicine shops. But you must mix with plenty of carrier oil - pure neem oil is too strong.

Get your dog to a good vet.

All the best.


fatt__
Novice


Dec 29, 2004, 10:56 PM


Views: 23425
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Thanks for reply and advice,

My dog(schumann) is adopted from my friend. before that, he has no skin problems. after i get him, i change his food(cooked food) to kibble(alpo). at that time, i dint know more about the dog food. after a bag of alpo, i've found that he is itchy whole day.

so, i suspect the food cause him itchy. so, i switch back to cooked food(cooked raw chicken with rice), but he still feel itchy. then i switch the food again. finally, i found a good brand dog food(canidae) two weeks ago. So, do you think the skin problem is caused by the food allergy? but, i've switch him to better quality food also cant see the result.

Second thing, i suspect is the environment changed. may he feel stress in the new place and cause him the skin problems? or he need ppl accompany him at the day time. i work at day time, so nobody at home.

One of the pet shop suggest me to shave off all of his hair. i've tried this also. but dont know whether it help or not?

these are two major things changed after i adopted from the previous owner. I'm staying in JB now. so do you have any good vet recommend to me. i feel tired of trying new dog food, shampoo, and vet.

Another things, i'm using the virbac brand's shampoo called sebazole. i bath him twice a week. wat do u think about this shampoo. do this shampoo help?


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Dec 30, 2004, 8:07 PM


Views: 23404
Re: [fatt__] Mange

From your posting ... you are right, changing environment and/or routine can be stressful for a dog, and that stress can translate to skin issues. It could also be a food allergy. Maybe as you suspect, the food allergy was triggered when you changed from cooked food to kibble.

But again so hard to tell without seeing/observing dog.

With food/skin allergies - it often takes more than 2 weeks for the symptoms to subside, especially if some other form of bacterial or fungal infection also take hold on the weakened skin area ...

So - I would still try and find a good vet where you are - to examine the dog. Unfortunately, I don't know any vets in the Johore area.

If it is food related & and allergy - maybe you can try this:

(a) Suggested diet

Boil BROWN RICE till soft. Blend or chop carrots & green veggies until very fine (if you wish you can boil the carrots, but raw is ok too - provided you blend or chop into puree or very small pieces) ... Boil chicken or lamb mince in a little water (do not over cook) ... Mix everything together ... Mix enough for a week, then you can pack into bags and freeze - defrost a bag a day for feeding. Say 30% meat and 50% brown rice & 20% veggies. DO NOT add any salt or seasoning - plain is good.

And then when you feed ... say - on Monday, Wednesday & Friday - add some olive oil or evening primrose oil with a general dog supplement ... On Tuesday & Thursday - - add some vitagen & honey. On Saturday, add a little codliver oil ... On Sunday - this is fasting day - so, no food BUT plenty of water, to help cleanse the system.

Alternatively - you can get a hypo-allergnic type of kibble - and then add the mixture above into the kibble and feed.

Stop giving all pet-shop bought treats, especially no rawhide or treats with colouring. You can replace shop bought treats with fruit ... eg. sliced apple (no apple seeds) ... slices of papaya ... oranges ... even roots like carrots ... etc. Do research on internet to find out what you should NOT feed the dog.

If you follow the above - you will give the dog time to expell the allergens from its body.

(b) Shampoo

Virbac products are all quite good. I think you neam "Sebolux". Sebolux is a therapeutic shampoo for dogs & cats. It is supposed to remove scales & crusts associated with seborrhea, leaving skin clean. Also recommended for pet dandruff. Contains 2% solubilised sulfur, 2% salicylic acid. It is keratolytic and a mild antiseptic. So, it is a good general shampoo for dogs with "itchy" coat/skin.

Bathing twice a week is okay say for the first 2 weeks, to help control the itchiness - but after that, reduce the frequency of bathing to once a week - because too much bathing can dry out the skin & that too can cause itching ... Make sure you always rinse well, and leave no residue behind. Ideally, you should only be bathing say once in 2 weeks.

If it is allergy related - shaving the dog - well, don't think that will be much help unless the dog is really encrusted and you need to shave to make it easier to apply medication ...

All that said - I still think it is a good idea to get your dog to a good vet ... or to any vet and get a skin scraping done to elimiate all possibility of a parasitic infection ... at lease narrow the possible causes.

Cheers


fatt__
Novice


Dec 30, 2004, 8:26 PM


Views: 23397
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

hi,

Thanks a lot. I'll try for it.

fatt


sheilakhiew
Dog Kichi

May 17, 2005, 1:36 AM


Views: 23216
Re: [cshellz] Mange

Hi cshellz

I would like to say a big thank you and really appreciated the infor that you and the rest of the dog lovers in this forum rgding demodex mange problem.

First of all, I wld like to explain that I have an english cocker spaniel (her name is Tammy) and she is 1yr & 1 mth old now. She starts to have this mange problem 2 mths ago. I have brought her to see the vet (which is a nice gentleman) and did skin scraping and confirm that it is demodex.

I love her vvvvv much and it's breaking my heart FrownUnsure and also scratching my head and hair rgding this problem. I treat my Tammy as one of my children.

The vet told me that it takes time to cure etc. and now he is given me medicines - itchy and antibiotic pills & a bottle of liquid (I think Bayticol) & ask to dilute 3 ml into a Coke-cola bottle (Big) & mixed with water & every 3 days after bathing and dry her 1st & apply with cotton wool with the liquid and rub on her. It is slowly healing but the problem still remains.

Please kindly give me advices, information, etc. on this mange problem.

For example, what to feed her with (have been giving her Nutri Source, later Purina - Lamb & Rice & now Nutro Choice - Lamb & Rice For Puppy), bathe her with (presently using Johnson's Tea Tree Shampoo and Coal Tar & Sulphur Shampoo), fed her with Seven Seas Cod Liver Oil, etc.

By the way I saw some medicines names, etc. for eg, orgaderm, mitaban, revolution, neem or tea tree oil, etc. where to get all these things. Hope you all can help and give me advice on this problem.

Sorry, by the way I live in OUG, KL.

Once again thank you to you all.

Sorry for been longwinded. Hope to hear from you guys or gals very soon.

Rgds/Sheila




shaun_sia
Novice

May 20, 2005, 1:45 AM


Views: 23197
Re: [sheilakhiew] Mange

i have the mange problem with my stout, a one-yr old rottweiller .... he has been treated by many vets ...n can't get it cured.... When i was abt 2feel hopeless .... i took him to a vet in tmn mutiara ....where he was given a big tablet type of medicine daily for 2 mths.... n he is completely cured ... i am very pleased with his skin condition now....
since u r in kl ... if u r interested i will let u know the exact location to meet up with this vet...


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

May 28, 2005, 9:31 AM


Views: 23130
Re: [sheilakhiew] Mange

Hi ...

Demo mange is a condition that takes time to resolve. There are may "suggested" methods of treatment ~ and the appropriate method of treatment depends on how serious the condition is ...

Providing good diet & nutrition is very critical ... because the better the diet, the stronger the dog's natural immunity ... and strong immunity helps bring demo mange under control.


Cheers


(This post was edited by Admin on May 31, 2005, 6:41 AM)


JuStiN'doGgIe
Canine Addict

Dec 1, 2005, 11:59 AM


Views: 22897
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

hi hi

strange... based on so many posts, mange sounds very complicated n hard to cure... however, perviously vet told me that figo, my poodle has mange ( that was few months back) n he gave him a jab, a selinium shampoo n tich wash... after about 2 months under selinium shampoo n the tich wash, his fur started to grow n now he's a beautiful poodle !!! brought him back to the vet n he told me his skin is very healthy but still have to continue the selinium shampoo once a month...


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Dec 1, 2005, 9:11 PM


Views: 22893
Re: [JuStiN'doGgIe] Mange

Hi ...

Not so strange really ... it all depends ...

(A) First ~ there are several types of mange ... and each requires a different treatment. Some are easier to treat, other variants are more stubborn ... Much also depends on the dog's general state of health.

ky.essortment.com/mangedogscats_rkon.htm


(B) Second ~ Because of the first reason ~ it is important to correctly identify the variant of mange affecting the dog so that the correct treatment can be applied. This is sometimes easier said than done for a multitude of reasons (a) Inexperienced owners often confuse symptoms of mange with other coat/skin conditions & allergies. Sometimes vets are equally confused or do not run the tests to identify cause.

(C) Third ~ demodectic mange (which is the type of mange infection primarily discussed in this thread) is genetic and can arise for a host of reasons, including low immunity ... and long term treatment requires several steps to be taken, including (a) reducing infection and/or spread, and (b) creating conditions & environment that allows the dog to strengthen its immunity & hence provide natural resistance to demo mange. All of which can be complicated or simple - depending on circumstances, health of dog & attitude of owner.

So - it all depends.

Am very glad that your dog's problem with mange was easily sorted out - wish the same for all.

Cheers



(This post was edited by surchinmy on Dec 1, 2005, 9:16 PM)


JuStiN'doGgIe
Canine Addict

Dec 2, 2005, 6:51 AM


Views: 22883
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

hey ya...

thanks for da reply, n the useful infos too Wink

great job n well done to u guys, the tips n infos shared here r very useful n HELPFUL as well... thumbs up !!!

regards, justin


wibbly
Dog Kichi


Dec 20, 2006, 8:33 PM


Views: 21755
Re: [surchinmy] Mange

Hi surchinmy...

My pup also having mange. When we first bought her from the pet shop, she had it and the vet treated her with Ivermectin. Now she kena mange again after a couple of months, the vet told us it's different type of mange pula. What sort of raw diet should i put her on? Any recipes? She's currently being fed with Nutri Source, i chose that coz the ingredient claim to use real chicken meat only. Any recommendation for brand of kibbles tat is holistic/organic brand? Very heartache to see her being tortured by the itching.


ValerieSHeng
Novice

Nov 1, 2007, 10:34 AM


Views: 20857
Re: [ginl] Mange

Sorry..you heard 'tactic' before..is a very strong medication and is very effective against mange as well..however, the new generation vets wont recommend use this..but the older generation vets will definately use this..is very cheap RM10.00 for a bottle...dilute with water and bath your dogs..make sure they dont licks and kena the eye...it works pretty fast...

My beagle recovers by using this...


supermutts
K9 Senior

Nov 3, 2007, 7:45 AM


Views: 20810
Re: [ValerieSHeng] Mange

do you still have this 'tactic' any labels? im interested in the active ingredient.



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