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Rottweilers



neurotoxicz
Dog Kichi

Apr 18, 2003, 4:54 AM


Views: 8049
Rottweilers

Hello to any of you who know something about rottweilers.Ok,my grand uncle has a rottweiler and it is a female.I pity it because he is deciding to neuter it because it doesn't look like a pure breed rottweiler even though the shop owner said it was.See,actually he wanted to breed it but now my grand auntie says it looks like a dobermann.She says the legs are too long and the face is not round.I on the other hand think it looks like a pure.The legs are rather long but it is normal because a female Rottweiler can reach up to 25 or 26 inches in height....the face looks round enough and the muzzle is also round.Maybe some of you can tell me how to tell a local rottweiler from a pure or mix.What are the characteristics or appearance that are expected of a pure rottweiler at about 3-4 months???



THANKS


chilimson
Member

May 4, 2003, 9:02 PM


Views: 7989
Re: [neurotoxicz] Rottweilers

Hi, if you are on line, there are many websites that post the Rottweiler standards. I have been keeping them and spend most of time tracking German bloodlines. If you have the pedigree certificates of the female, please send me the dog ancestary and I will try to let you know. However, I must caution you that there are a lot of pet traders that do not really acquire the genuine "certificate". Therefore, you just need to be very careful in acquiring what is "pure" and what is "mixed".

This is one European site that gives you some nice pictures as illustrations for what is a typical Rottie. http://www.casarenkamp.com/standardev.htm By the way, a female that is 25 or 26 inches is really really large for a female Rottweiler. Normally, that is the large size male, and check it out

There is also a website talking about head type in ANIWA.com, go check it out.


mianw
Novice

May 13, 2003, 11:19 PM


Views: 7948
Re: [neurotoxicz] Rottweilers

Hi,
I am an owner of a one-year old male rottweiler. By the way you described, I think your granduncle's dog is a rottweiler too. I hope he has not gone ahead and neutered it. Did he intend to breed?
I have been looking for a female rottweiler for my dog for the last 2 months. Would your granduncle still be interested to breed? By the way, mine has an MKA cert; I trust that your granduncle's has also got a cert.


neurotoxicz
Dog Kichi

May 14, 2003, 12:35 AM


Views: 7945
Re: [mianw] Rottweilers

Hello there ,

Thanks for replying.So are you sure she's a pure?Her muzzle is roundish and the legs are quite long.She has been docked and i think looks like a Rott.My grand-uncle's neighbours say that she looks more like a dobermann than a rott so,i don't know.He intended to breed it but has made up his mind not to.He said it would be lots of work to nurse her and care for the pregnancy.

One more thing is she doesn't have a MKA cert.I don't think she has one.I would like to ask you what a MKA cert is.Can all citizens in Malaysia apply for it for their dogs?How much is the fee and things like that.I also have to tell you , one problem is ,you're probably staying in West Malaysia,well we are at East .So i don't think anything is possible.Happy searching for a 'wife' for your dog!I'm sure that it should be quite easy.Wink
[~*~NeuR0ToxiCz~*~]


chilimson
Member

May 17, 2003, 10:16 PM


Views: 7931
Re: [mianw] Rottweilers

I am curious why do you want to breed your male Rottweiler. Could you please share his pedigree in the certificate? I understand in reading somewhere that Rottweilers are pretty popular in Malaysia, and I am not sure whether that is true. Could some help to let me know where would I get more information on who are the breeders in Malaysia? I certainly hope you do not just want to breed your Rottweiler because he is mature. This breed is not for everybody and it is because they become so popular in certain countries sometime earlier that created the huge problem of having bad temperament Rotties. Because people just wanted to make more money and do not care about the dogs they breed. Sound or unsound temperament, healthy or unhealthy, working or conformation type, etc...The fact that we have pure breed pedigree today is actually the gift and hardwork of people who cares and continue to ensure that we breed the best to the best. Anyway, I am not here to lecture ethical breeding, but am just trying to share that we must breed because of a desire to better the breed and not just to put two dogs together and produce a lot of puppies. Remember bad genes will continue to produce for many generations and so please do a little study before breeding.


neurotoxicz
Dog Kichi

May 19, 2003, 4:41 AM


Views: 7923
Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers

Yeah...breeding is quite important.Some people do care more about money and aren't kind hearted enough to consider what might happen to the puppies.Abused for being not sound or steady in their temperament?Pity dogs like that.Put to sleep.Actually,talking about putting a dog down,although it might sound silly,i think every dog deserves a chance to live.Of course i'm talking about the sick dogs and not the ones that killed people because then again they might kill another person but....i think that natural death is better.I'm quite sure it's suffering but the dog never said it wanted to die but that is also because it can't talk,but the decision is not up to it....imagine..what IF ,like humans,how would you feel if you were in the dogs position?What if it wanted a chance to perhaps continue the remainder of its life instead of just putting it down?

Anyway, today,i saw my grand-uncle's ,neighbour's Rottweiler!It was a male and the owner brought it out.I was bringing my grand-uncle's GSD for a walk(puppy)..because mine is still not availableFrown...anyway,the Rottie was so BIGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Big as in the head.Enormous and it was drooling the whole time with the saliva flying everywhere.It wasn't very tall but the head was just GIGANTIC and strong.SCARY!It was just scary!It looked like it had a black pig-like body.Round and muscular.The ears were folded nicely like a Rottweiler's.Looked like a rottweiler but the legs were not that big and long....

Wanted to ask you,if it is normal for a puppy Rottie's ears to be not folded and kind of going to the back but not standing?I mean it is folded but just not neatly covering the earholes?What i mean is that it's not stretched out.But if you pull the ears it should be the size that should cover the holes.Should a Rottie be like that when it's small or should its ears be nicely covering the ears since they are small?Thanks!Smile
[~*~NeuR0ToxiCz~*~]

(This post was edited by neurotoxicz on May 19, 2003, 4:54 AM)


chilimson
Member

May 19, 2003, 8:19 AM


Views: 7917
Re: [neurotoxicz] Rottweilers

Ha..ha.. Do not be intimidated by the Rottweiler!Sly Some of them are like pussy cat! Just kidding. Recently, there are some breeders in Europe who are breeding Rottweiler with heads that looks like Mastiff, and I think they should have just got themselves a Mastiff instead of creating such aweful Rottweiler head. Honestly, without seeing what you see, I cannot comment. But the males should have broad head and massive chest, whereas the female head should be slightly smaller and the stop less pronounced. However, there are people who like to breed female with a male-like pronounced stop. To me, it does not matter, first they must meet the breed standard and must have great temperament. Otherwise, lots of trouble ahead for this breed because you cannot handle them, because of their sheer brute strength. That is why I spend many years studying the German bloodlines, because they have all the generations recorded and kept for reference. There is also pretty strict breeding guidelines and so you know what you are roughly getting, even though it is the act of nature finally. But genes are genes, it is there and become part of you, only whether there are dormant or dominant. Anyway, long story to tell, and will give you the website to browse if you are interested in genetics and breeding.

Now, Rottweiler tends to have folded flapped ears when they are alert, so you will see two triangles. However, some with smaller ears will not fold nicely and thus is called flying ears. When they are babies...their ears will not fold down as well. So really, how old are you talking about your puppies? If the ears are big enough, but not folded correctly, then you must taped it at a young ages like 6 weeks or more. This will help the fold line to be more permanent, and again let me know if you need the website to refer to. Hope it helps.


neurotoxicz
Dog Kichi

May 22, 2003, 5:17 AM


Views: 7905
Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers

I know it's really hard to explain on the internet....do you know how i might save a scanned file small so that i can attach to the photo gallery or mail to you?I would TRY to take some photos of the dog and hopefully show you.I don't know how to make the scanned file small enough!Mine is TOO big!Help!
[~*~NeuR0ToxiCz~*~]


chilimson
Member

May 23, 2003, 8:36 AM


Views: 7899
Re: [neurotoxicz] Rottweilers

I do not know what software you have in your system, so I will just advise you in a general form. All scanners comes with software to allow you to clip the physical layout in terms of size (like mm x mm) and also pixel density (higher pixel = higher disk space) which is important if you wanted to have a high quality colour print. If you do not need high quality print, then choose lesser pixel density or something call picture quality (low).

The other way is to use photo-editing software and clip it to the size you want and save as "what ever quality" you want. Use .jpeg format and not tiff or bmp, because they are not "compressed" are thus use very high disk space.

Therefore, if you want to keep those picture in digital form, then scan in high quality and resolution, so that you can keep in your digital album, then use your photo-editor to save in .jpeg or .jpg format to send as email.

Hope that helps.


neurotoxicz
Dog Kichi

May 24, 2003, 9:39 PM


Views: 7889
Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers

OK,

I'll try to work my programme.I'm really not good in the scanning thing and haven't had any successful attempts at getting to complete what i wanted to do with the scanned picture FAST.Tongue
[~*~NeuR0ToxiCz~*~]


Polluxx
Enthusiast


May 28, 2003, 4:57 AM


Views: 7879
Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers

Hi Chilimson,
Glad to see some one who is interested wt Rottie on this site. By the way I also like rottie very much.
Just seen ur reply abt the European breeder breeding for much larger headShocked, wht do u think of it ? But I still believe they do still produce the best bloodline coz they only breed when they have working degree, good temperament & correct conformation standard. by the way how many Rottie u own. Wht do u thk of local rottie standard ?
Hope to see this this thread kept alive by all Malaysian rottie lover on-board.Smile






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


chilimson
Member

May 28, 2003, 6:31 AM


Views: 7874
Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers

Actually, I am a Singaporean and will still like to participate in this forum if you all do not mind, but please let me know if it is an issue. I have been joining and participating a few Rottweiler forums across the world. Anyway, my family have a few Rottweilers, and one from UK and the rest from German lines. I think it is okay to have broad head type, but not that of a Mastiff. Anyway, I think those current prevalent in Germany is either Doc or Noris bloodlines, coming through Rick or Jackomo/Balou. I know there are some who like the headpiece of Mambo vom Teufelsbrucke, but I think his kids tends to be a little on the Mastiff side that I do not prefer. I think it is a matter of taste and so will not argue to much. I think the key issue is temperament and working abilities. However, I think most people do not know how to handle them, and start moving towards the conformation or show type. Not that it is wrong, but it sacrifices the type and robustness of the Rottweiler. The worst thing to be happening is indiscriminate breeding in the former Eastern European block countries and nobody is interested in pointing them out, so there will be handsome or pretty Rottweilers, but have hip/elbow problem and temperament like a pussy cat. I am not saying all the dogs are like that, but there is pretty little control or governance of the clubs in such countries. This is just a warning and I hope those interested do their homework because there are so many Rottweiler sites in the world now. I had no access to all these information many years ago, but have learnt a lot during the last three years with the information I got from the web.


Polluxx
Enthusiast


May 29, 2003, 4:07 AM


Views: 7864
Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers

Hi chilimson,

I see, well I always go to S'pore to see ur GSD specialty show, (GSD is my favourite too) I do see occasionally a few folk will bring their rottie along. By the way is there a Rottie club in S'pore ? Have u attend M'sia Rottie Specialty show b4..?? wht do u thk of it....I thk nowadays...there a lot of Yugoslavia line rottie in M'sia.(translate big head)...wht abt the scene in Singapore ?

Talking abt the large head, I'm just curious b'coz U mentioned the large head started from from Noris & Doc line...I tot it begin with Furst von wolfert Turm & his brother......wht is is name...Frown ..??? I thk their bloodline is quite prevalent in Yugo...personally I dun mind their big head, but I hope as you have mentioned the East European will start breeding alond ADRK standard coz a ot of them r coming into our shore...and we do not know how much they will contribute to the gentic pool over here.

Well as for me I currently owned a GSD (working line), b'coz I had hard time convincing my family getting a rottie. Hopping to get one in the near future though.

Have u seen or read last yr ADRK klubsieger Eddy vom Hammerbachtal, I hope to see more like him around...very good working drive, nice structure , large head but not overly big and slightly on the large size (which I dun really mind ! Wink)

Wish I could I own a dog like him !






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


chilimson
Member

May 29, 2003, 7:02 AM


Views: 7861
Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers

I am not in GSD, and so never attend any of the specialty show. But there is a GSD club with very good participation and lot of activities. Keeping Rottweilers is my passionate hobby and I do intend to bring my Rottweiler to Malaysia for show because of the quarantine requirements. I think it is the same problem for Malaysian owners, who wanted to bring their dogs into Singapore. I do not have any information concerning the Rottie Specialty show in M'sia, and will appreciate if you could share the details.

Furst is now sold to Brazil, and he is really very handsome. He is K'Sg, B'Sg, Int. CH, and I own one of his son. His brother Flash was sold to Yugoslavia and that is where you see all his genes, but he died later after being sold to Russia.

I do not think Noris head is too large, but I think he looks great overall. Mambo von Teufelsbrucke is, and he son Cliff as well. Doc head is large as well, but he sons are great in headpiece. I think his son Rick produces some nice female headpiece.

Honestly, I do not think there is anything outstanding with Eddy, and think there are much nicer dogs in Germany. However, like everywhere when money corrupts, so many dogs owners did not participate. I think Eddy is B'Sg and Donner is K'Sg, but I may be wrong. Lot's of story, but why waste time talking about the negatives. Let me know if you are getting a Rottie, will be interested to know what you are looking for.


Polluxx
Enthusiast


May 30, 2003, 5:12 AM


Views: 7855
Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers

I agree wt u I thk both Doc & Noris do have nice headpiece, 'large but overly large'. I believe this got to do with ADRK strict breeding guide which do not produce extreme.

By the way, why do u say Eddy is not that good, I thk he has wt him the rotweiler of the 90s look, good size, not over overly bulky like a mastiff and most importantly the working drive which I find very lacking in the rottie nowadays.

By the way do u breed ur dog, I have a fren who is a rottie breeder...he told me he has trouble getting getting progeny wt the desire bone size even though they have the correct height. Both of his dog is of large size and wt strong bone (imported !!) ..he suspect our tropical weather has an effect on it....do u have any advice..???






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


chilimson
Member

May 30, 2003, 7:14 AM


Views: 7852
Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers

Ahh! This is an interesting question that I have been asking around for a long long time, and I have no answers. A lot of speculations and I know that some people are also experimenting it. I have posted in another thread, please search for "calcium supplement and problem". If possible, please post or email me your friend bloodline because I am interested to study this topic as well. By the way, what you mentioned is true for GSD and GR as well. I think it is true for all large dogs, and the average is always smaller. I am not in the dog trade and do not breed for a living, will do it more for experimenting or try to ensure that the great bloodline is preserved here after importing them from Germany. Therefore, only breed once for the bitch because she came from a great bloodline, but please let me know what is the diet and routine your friend does with his dogs.


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Jun 18, 2003, 6:49 AM


Views: 7814
Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers

Hi Chilimson,
sorry for not replying earlier...abt ur query regarding the my fren dog bloodline...well I'm not too sure...but I believe I saw "vd Nedermolen" (sire)bloodline on the pedigree once..I believe that is Dutch rite !
Anyway abt wht u mentioned tht u only breed to "preserve the German Bloodline"..wht do u mean by that...?? u meant its working temperament or conformation wise ??
I m fascinated by wht I've read regarding Ives Eulenspiegel & his son Dingo....it seem that they were of stronger minded dogs than current generation of Klubsieger. Wht do u thk of the current generation of ADRK Rottie...have they turn mellower. ..Wht do u thk of Balou v.Siberlick....been reading a lot abt him (his progeny) ..seems to be doing very well..wht is he contributing..his headpiece or his overall qualities...wht is he producing in terms of working temperament...! would appreciate ur comment. Thks !Wink






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


chilimson
Member

Jun 20, 2003, 7:02 AM


Views: 7795
Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers

There is really not many Rottweilers owners, and most buy from pet shop that import them from Australia (no quarantine). I imported a pair from Germany, and they are both kids of Bunderseigers. Therefore, the Singapore Kennel Club asked me to breed to keep their lines, so I did only once and that is what I meant by keeping the German line.

Both the dogs are PINK papers, which means that all the parentage had at least SchH 1 working title. However, since both fathers are also B.Sg, then they are also excellent conformation type. Excellent temperament, because the Germans had already decided that they must breed them as such in order to ensure that Rottweilers will not be banned or "terminated". Therefore, I think the Germans do a pretty job in controlling the bloodlines and recording them accurately. Like all things, there is always a distribution of sharpness and "friendly" type. But I think the days of vicious Rottie from Germany is over, however I cannot say the same for many other countries. That is why I spend a lot more time trying to study and understand the German bloodlines.

Balou is now the most bred Stud dog in Germany and probably outside of Germany as well. There are strength and weakness for every dog, and I think he is equivalent to Rick von Burgthann in terms of producing quality. Go search the websites and you will see many many breedings of Balou, but he is having some misses recently. He seems to pass on his headpiece and size (huge) pretty well, but he has other problems. Therefore, the female half is very important I think, and so you must select well.


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Jun 21, 2003, 7:03 AM


Views: 7787
Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers

Quote :
"But I think the days of vicious Rottie from Germany is over, however I cannot say the same for many other countries. "

Well I m very new to this breed, but I have always tot they have to be strong minded , very dominant, or maybe the correct term should be self assure & not overly friendly to strangers. I meant tht was the idea they were bred for ..rite ?? to control/drive the butcher's cattle , to protect their owner & their purse string, police service dog (at the turn of the century)...all this calls for a very self assure, steady and fearless dog and most of all loyal. My question is can the ADRK Klubsieger continue producing dog of this nature...or maybe I'm 20-30 yrs too late to have a chance to own such a dog.

Wht will happen to them in the coming next 20-30 yrs .....lap dog...?? tht will be kinda of scary....

I thk V-rated dogs should have a very good protection routine or Korung report so that we can continues preserving their working temperament. Wht do u thk.....wht I m trying to put acroos is V-rated must have very good conformation + excellent working temperament to set them aside from the rest of the field.

Back to my earlier post abt Balou...do u know any progeny he has produce tht is in any kind of working service...such as Police K-9, Army dog, sports dog or S&R. Crazy..or most of them r just in show...Unsure.???
The reason I m asking this is b'coz...I've read at other forum...Rick vd Burgthan produce a lot good conformation but not in terms of Korung rep. Just wanna share something my fren was telling me abt breeding a good overall rottie....get a good working bitch (wt correct conformation) beed it with a V-rated dog (definitely must not be shy or timid) wht do u thk..??Tongue


By the way which klubsieger bloodline r u preserving in ur breeding...I m very curious.....Tongue !! did u happen to go to the recent MKA specialty show in Ipoh...well too bad I missed it ! If u did go....do share wt me wht u thk of the quality of rottie we have in M'sia....!!






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


chilimson
Member

Jun 21, 2003, 10:19 AM


Views: 7785
Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers

I think it will be a lengthy debate on what will be the character or temperament of a Rottweiler in 20 to 30 years. Only responsible breeders and responsible owners could possibly preserve that working Rottweiler that you hope to have as a honourable heritage. I think the governments and generic population will not tolerate any more "accidents" similar to the one in KL several years ago. I totally agree with you that Rottweiler should not be a Lab or GR, but people start to buy Rottweiler without understanding the need to train and learning how to handle them because they are looking for a guard or macho dog for security reasons.

Anyway, I don;t think you need to pay for V rated dog for protection or SchH or VPG (replaced SchH), because all pink-certificate pedigree should have sufficient drive and temperament for protection work. People make comments and compare Rick, and I do agree to a certain extend if you are doing a generic commentation. Rick produces so many litters and puppies, and really you must look at the bitch as well. Anyway, from a bloodline standpoint, I think Balou coming from Jackomo and Noris are stronger temperament dog. Therefore in that sense...hmmm..I will say he is a stronger male than Rick in terms of temperament. My view is that there is no perfect dog, and so you must choose what you really want. One of Balou's kid Ambassador von Shambala just won the V1 Working title in the World Rottweiler Show in Dortmund a few weeks ago. Search the web and you could see his picture. By the way, Balou has a half brother Vico von Flugschneise (out of Jackomo) and I think he had a stronger temperament than Balou. He is banned from Korung because his trainer made a mistake by pushing him just before his Korung, and he "attacked" the judge when he tried to measure his chest Sly.

I am not a breeder by profession and not even serious in breeding, and I read a lot about genetics and Rottweiler from a passionate hobby perspective. Therefore, I do agree with getting a good working bitch to start with, but definitely not any "V" rated dog. That is why people need to study about bloodline because of phenotype and genotype heriditary dorminace. Therefore, even though it is hard to quantify, I would say pick a "V" rate stud to complement what you think if inadequate in your bitch line (that is look at his parentage and direct siblings).Wink

My male father is Furst vom Wolfert Turm (K'Sg96,B'Sg95,etc.), brother of Flash that is found in many Yugoslavian and Romanian lines. My dam's father is Brutus von Hammerschemeide (B'Sg96 and son of Pascha v Hegestrauch - perfect scoring 300 pts. working dog in German history).

I am not in the dog show circuit nor in any pet trade and I spent a lot of time working and travelling. Therefore, I just do not have time to visit regional shows. I have learnt something about people in the dog trade over the past so many years, and therefore, I do not comments about dogs openly in the dog circuit. I have seen some very nice looking adult dogs that are imported from East European countries, but I need to caution you that you can never be certain of the quality of their bloodlines. Having the piece of paper is just not good enough to prove anything, and I will leave my remarks as such.


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Jun 24, 2003, 7:20 AM


Views: 7765
Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers

I agree wth u,...I thk the some breeder especially the East European r breeding for larger head instead of looking for the overall improvement especially in the temperament side. I even read from the GSD forum tht some East Euro breeder (not all of them)fake breeding papers.....so as to sell their dog.

By the way, abt Ambassador...I thk overall he is a very nice rottie...heard tht his working drv is very good (maybe from his dam..Cleo v Hammerbachtal)..but does he re-produce the working drv side in his progeny...I thk the jury is out yet for this dog. Still I hope he has a go for ADRK Klubsieger by virtue of his working drv & overall physical attributes....by the way is he related 2 Eddy v hammerbachtal which I've mentioned earlier in my post.

I m not actually looking 4 v-rated dog (I dun really mind) I m actually worry that in the not too distant future...just like wht happened to the GSD if winners/Klubsieger is consistently chosen for their conformation rather than their working drv, temperament & other overall qualities then followed by breeders keep breeding to them (winners)only.....well sooner or later we'll have genetic bottleneck where most if not all rottie can be traced back to very few winners thus causing the overall health of the breed to fall.

I dun know whether u agreed wt me... but they(ADRK) should occasionally choose excellent service dog such as police k-9 or Army dog to be winner in their Klubsieger-Zuchtschau
(as long as they dun have disqualifying fault ) ....u know .... just 2 re-juvenate the genepool a bit & also to preserve the working drv. I know the ADRK hav their Duestche Meisterschaft (Working competition) but I dun thk they r too many breeders out there tht take notice of it or choose their stud dog from the winners there.

By the way , u got urself a very nice breeding pair there......so how did the litter turn out...?? will u still be breeding them again the forseeable future...??






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


chilimson
Member

Jun 28, 2003, 8:13 AM


Views: 7746
Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers

I have learnt from lesson from importing from a Croatian kennel and will never ever do it again. The dog had HD and it took me a while to get the breeder to admit that the stud they used had problem. Then I had problem getting the pedigree and there is just too much pain associated with dealing with them. Like I say, this is just my hobby and not a business, and so I did not even bother to ask for replacement. Because I do not think I will get a good one anyway, and what would I do with another "normal" dog. Anyway, just do your due diligence if you are getting dogs from internet sites, and also countries that do not have transparent governance processes. Best advise is visit the kennel and make sure that you pick the puppy or dog you want personally. Get health check done and ship per your instruction.

I think you know what you are looking for, but am not sure why you think that the current gene pool do not have strong working dog. I do agree that the current winners are not as strong as maybe what you like, but the ZTP and korung trails really is different from all the conformation shows that are held in Malaysia and Singapore. I really think that there are strong working dogs in the current gene pool, but definitely not those quantity that are prevalent before the early nineties. Again, it will be a disaster for the breed is such strong dogs are breed in large numbers and do not fall into the hands of strong owners! Anyway, I will not debate on this, but definitely there are strong working breeding lines out there. You can find them, and they may not be seigers because this is the changed expectation of the judges in Germany.

Like I said, I only breed once and did not keep any of the puppies. I did not like the physical outcome too much because they tends to be smaller and less massive than the imports. However, their temperaments is great and I have not idea what is the cause of the smaller inherited sizes. I have written to many forums and breeders, and no one could really share why local breeding do not yield dogs with substances. No, I do not intend to breed this pair anymore.


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Jun 28, 2003, 9:10 PM


Views: 7743
Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers

Hi Chilimson,

Sorry to hear wht abt ur experience wt the Crotian Kennel Unsure ....maybe u can give us the name...so that the ppl on board will know and avoid this kennel. By the way, is the kennel registered wt ADRK or IFR...maybe u can write to them to complain ??

I do agree wt u regarding wht u say abt strong dog falling in the hand of wrong owner...I have seen dogs that r abuse, some even tie-up (short leash) whole day long by their owners ...{I can't imagine this kind of thing is still happening at this modern age.Mad} I also do belive tht how & with whom does a breeder place their puppies with is very important. I do have in mind to get a puppy from Euro...but haven't write to the breeder yet....maybe if I decided to go ahead...I will seek ur opinion regarding the breeding pair...if its ok wt you..(well...lets just say the dam is of same litter as Ambassador....!!}..I did asked the breeder before abt his puppies price but tht was almost 9 moths ago,.....hopefully the breeder will not raised his price on this litter ..Sly......

Regarding the lack of substance on rottie bred in this region, I wonder have u ever try breeding a large substantial male to an oversize bitch .....??? would the litter then be large but not over size...?? also how abt raising them in air-conditioned kennel...I have heard some showline GSD bred in Malaysia is kept in air-conditioned kennel to help keep their fur plush ...??? but I dun know whether it will help to promote their growth..??? ...Regarding ur last breeding pair...u were saying that the progeny is smaller and less substance.....do u mean thy r shorter and also of smaller bone size..??? wht abt their head size...I'm curious since the grandsire is Furst ..???






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


chilimson
Member

Jun 28, 2003, 11:07 PM


Views: 7741
Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers

I think there is more than that kennel out there that are both IFR and ADRK registered, which will give you all kinds of crap. I really do not think these bodies are there to police all these stuff and it always comes back to contract and legality. Anyway, I do not wish to name any kennel as they do have some nice dogs as well, and it will be terrible to penalize the dogs because of the breeders' conduct. Anyway, this is my opinion and hope you could respect that, and I am more willing to help you or give you opinions once you have selected your dog.

The prices are quite stable for puppy, unless you are getting a titled dog. I think it is a little more difficult if you are trying to buy from famous kennel, because they will tends to give the first choices to someone they know or they keep for their own. You should try to make a trip there if you are seriously thinking of starting a kennel with good bloodlines.

Actually, both my male and female are already large in size comparing with the standards. However, the kids are smaller in height and also size. Sorry, I do not have an oversize bitch and do not intend to buy one, as I am not in the pet trade. Therefore, I cannot tell what is the issue here, but definitely not food because I give them good quality kibble and human grade beef. I have heard about someone raising GSD in airconditioned environment, but I am just puzzled how to explain why. Anyway, it is just too much work and I will just import one or two if mine crosses the bridge, or I will just give up the hobby. I have not come across any puppy that produces Furst head, and it is such a shame. But they definitely possess his temperament, which is great!


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Jul 2, 2003, 9:29 PM


Views: 7725
Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers

Hi Chilimson,

Ok la I won't ask for the name of kennel u got ur dog from. I m just curious only. By the way I've just recently read on the net that HD/ED is about 30% cause by genetic and the rest is due to food and environment...so wht is your take on this.

Talking abt the price of import pups...in your experience how much is the average price of a pup (EURO $) cost in Europe (I mean places like Germany, Belgium & Yugo). This will be most helpful as I m corresponding with the breeder right now. And also how much was the shipping (air) charges to S'pore (I m guessing it should be almost the same to KLIA). Maybe I can also get him to transit in S'pore & follow by bringing him over myself as I m staying in JB (has anybody done this before ?....it seems that there is no quarantine if brought over from S'pore) Well it is very unlikely to for me to fly over to chk out the litter..but it seems the breeder is quite ethical so I guess I've just got to trust him. Anyway I dun thk I will be getting the puppy this yr as I think I've just missed the breeding...so maybe nx yr ...good also la! I can find out how did the litter turn out.

By the way...talking abt the good quality kibble for feeding dogs like Rottie & GSD....well my bro been feeding his GSD (co-owned by him & me he..he Tongue )which is now almost 7 months old but it seems that his growth has stopped at this stage ~ almost an adult bitch size )..We've been feeding him all the times mixture of Kibbles (Canidae + Innova+ Abady[smaller portion]) ...with occasional brown rice/meat throw in once in a while...is this sufficient..??? Normally long will their growth rate last ?? (6 mth, 9mths or 1 yr ??) Also we've been trying to keep him on the lean side...but we r afraid that we might be overdoing it..??? Wht is your opinion on this ??

Thanx !






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


chilimson
Member

Jul 3, 2003, 6:45 AM


Views: 5515
Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers

OK, I will visit the topic that I dread the most, which is HD, and I know many people have different opinions about it. I will just state my view after reading and researching this topic for a while. I think HD is 100% genetic and 100 % environment, and this is how it works.

If you have clean good lines, then I think the environment will have pretty little impact of creating HD. Unless you do subject your puppy or yearlings to crazy routines and overfeeding at very young age. After two years old, I think the mold is cast. Therefore, first go for strong HD frei bloodlines, and review all the HD conditions of the littermates or what the dam has been producing. I think it is worth all the effort to look for good bloodlines. Remember, the genes will always have the hidden ones, and may pop up once a while. For example, Balou really really pass on his headpiece, just look at his kids and you know it is dominant. Therefore, I think the 30% cause is a fallacy, if you think of the cause and I will vote 60% if you are doing a generic classification of dyplastic dogs.

Once you have an HD predispose puppy, then the environment become a 100% contributor. You must recognise this and take all sort of precaution. From food supplement, weight control, exercising and habitat. Well, can keep going but think it is good enough for a generic opinion.

Prices used to be 1000 Dm for the puppy excluding freight. Nowadays...it goes for 1000 to 1500 Euro or USD, depending on which European country you are importing. I always import my dogs and they had to be quarantined for 30 days in Singapore, and I am not sure how or what is the procedure to bring into Malaysia.

Kibble, yes, I have posted in another thread that I do not want to get into people's rice bowl issue, and also sponsorship problem. Therefore, I have posted another website for people to go and read the details and decide for themselves what is quality kibble and what is crap!Wink However, your kibble are great and I am sure you are happy with the coat and health of your dogs. I add brown rice, cook human grade beef and tripe, and Vit. C (1000mg) + Glucosomine/Chondroitin supplement for those yearlings or puppies that I do a little more exercising. Their growth is very rapid from 6 months to 1 year and beyond one year, they will grow muscle and masses if you exercise and feed them appropriately. If you are keeping him lean because of HD, then it is like having them in a glass environment. Anyway, it is really your call if you think that their genes are prone to HD. Remember, their wolf instinct means that they are free to roam and hunt when they are hungry. IF you are worried, just watch their stomach area to see the first two ribs. IF they are obvious, then I think they are too thin and may affect the growth rates (slower). I sort of leave them a little "fat", that is I do not see the ribs clear but could feel them immediately. Same analogy for human, that is you are "liveless" and tired easily when you are under nourished.


mackmack
Doggyman


Jul 3, 2003, 11:49 AM


Views: 5514
Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers

I seldom get into this working group section, but glad that I didn't miss out your wonderful sharing and also the "links" you did before... that made me to dig out your old posts in the forum so I could learn more from you.

Anyway, keep up the good job in sharing.Wink This is a public forum place... should be FREE in SPEECH to certain extend...

you....

MSN?


--I have Howling Bean and Lazy Mack.--


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Jul 3, 2003, 9:11 PM


Views: 5508
Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers

Sorry , if I m a bit confused here, but r u saying if my puppy is genetically pre-disposed to HD /ED then it is very likey no matter wht precaution I take, it will result in HD developing at later stage. And if he is genetically HD frei then he will definitely not get HD even if he is over-fed ? ? Well it is a bit difficult 2 find out whether my pup is HD prone or not b'coz only the sire (import) is x-rayed but on the dam side (the dam was bred oversea but grew up here so was not x-rayed by the breeder) it seems the grandsire is contributing good hips record to the breed in Germany. I m not sure whether there is any vet in M'sia who conduct HD analysisi (x-ray).

You were also saying that the puppy will continue to have rapid growth from 6mths to 1 yr old,...well I thk mine kinda of slow down quite significantly by the time when he is 6mths old......so am I underfeeding him or wht ? Unimpressed So will he continue to grow...? I suspect GSD growth rate should be somewht similar to Rottie..rite ! ? Well I m not too worry abt his coat tough as long he is healthy looking, anyway his coat is definitely not plush (he is from working line), just slightly thk & coase wt undecoat. I was hoping u can share some insight on this....!

I do feed wt him wt supplement such as Solid Gold seameal [wt flaxseed], occasional calcium+vit D (small dosage) & vit C (100mg only) b'coz I read somewhere dog can produce their own vit C.

Anyway back to HD issue....well my GSD do occasionally drag his hind leg (but very rarely) so I m hoping tht it is not HD but is only pano..which I read is quite normal for the GSD during the growth stage....by the way does Rott has pano..???






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Jul 3, 2003, 9:18 PM


Views: 5507
Re: [mackmack] Rottweilers

Hi ,

did see ur post in other threads, especially like the thread which u started ' on how to bring back ur Golden Ret to Malaysia'...was very insightful.....!! So how is ur dog getting used to our tropical weather here..??

Cheers !Smile






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


mackmack
Doggyman


Jul 3, 2003, 9:39 PM


Views: 5506
Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers

Hi Polluxx~

Sounds like you are "spying" on me~~~~~~~~Tongue

kakakakak.... thanks for your time to read my posts. I personally see that "sending to KL" thread as his diary of up & down to KL.... I hope you enjoy following that "story".

To repeat this answer again and again.... well~ I have lost the custody of to his current owner, which we were both the co-owners on 's birth cert. no choice as is in KL and I'm in US. fighting for the custody won't benefit . why i sent him back then? coz i dun wanna see him suffer the tests, the paper works, the road trip and the long journey flight for TWICE and I gotto PAY TWICE and twice the effort to arrange eveyrhting both in KL and US.

Anything else u wanna know? i'll be happy to asnwer you~Wink

Oh yeah~

about the weather problem... GRs are hunting dog, they can adapt to anykind of weather and environment which serve their main purposes of hunting. if you talk about HOT weather... the summer in US is worse than in M'sia. I guess it really depends on how the owners handle the GR and how the owners take care of the GR..... that is: do the best for the dog.Smile which i think i did, in michigan.


--I have Howling Bean and Lazy Mack.--


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Jul 4, 2003, 8:21 AM


Views: 5501
Re: [mackmack] Rottweilers

Hi ,

Sorry to hear tht u lost custody of to the current owner, is this just a temporarily arrangement or permanent...I meant since u r still States..so ur fren (co-owner) is helping to take care of him until u r back ?

By the way the reason I found ur thread on bringing back was b'coz I was looking up on info on how to import a dog into M'sia..... thanks to a lot member on board who were very helpful , they definitely contribute a lot of info.

So how r u coping rite now w/out a k-9 fren by ur side ?

By the way it must be fun to own a dog in States, since in US they definitely got a lot of activity for our k9 fren...and they r welcome almost anywhere unlike here where u can't even walk them around ur own neighbourhood w/o getting a stare back.

Hey, u know what ! I got another dog who look like a goldie (medium size)except that she is totally black in colour wt slightly plush coat and she will retrieve anything I throw, actually she is of Dalmatian (Dam)-Spaniel/Rott (Sire)-cross ...maybe I will take a picture of her & post for u to see for urself the resemblence.
By the way she is spayed as we got another male dog in the house ! Unsure

So tell me more abt ur k9 activity u have done in States.....should be pretty interesting ! Wink






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


chilimson
Member

Jul 4, 2003, 10:26 AM


Views: 5488
Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers

Hmm.. you are asking more difficult question and gettting a little more technical in defination. Again, am no expert and will attempt to give you my opinion, and hopefully there are more expert out there to give you better answers. There are many genetic factors that affect HD and I do not think anybody out there that could give you the genetic marker. Therefore, I will give you two perspective and you could get some idea of genetically pre-disposed effect. If your puppy somehow has weak "muscle" or laxity issue, then supplement and environment care in ensuring that the muscle is build up to prevent joint inflamation and joint deformation will certainly help to prevent further HD problem. If you could keep this condition till two years old, then I think it is quite safe that the dog is able to hold up till the end.

On the other hand, if you have a "flat" femur instead of round or the socket cavity is not "deep" to hold the femur ball, then you will see the problem as he grows and put on mass (weight). That is because there is really nothing to hold in place, even though you have strong muscle or diet control. Hope it make sense to you. My strong advice is that if you notice something amiss with your dog, please do not assume it is pano. Get a vet to do an x-ray to confirm it is not HD or ACL or arthritis. Because early diagnostic and treatment can lessen the severity and also correct the issue, especially mild HD issue. Let's assume that there is mild HD and the dog limps because it is painful. It will then try to use the fronts more and less on the hindlegs. Then the hind muscle will not build up due to not much exercising and gets weaker, which in turn do not hold the ball socket joints together.

If you do not have xray, then check kids of the sire other breedings and their dog base. The same check could be done on the dam, and also check her siblings and their breedings as well. These are all indicators.

I cannot comment on GSD, but for Rottie..relatively speaking 9 to 10 months is peak of fast growth rate. The ugly stage is between 4 to 9 months, and it is this unproportionate growth period you need to be careful. Well, I hope the locally bred GSD is not like locally bred Rottie, because they tends to be smaller than their imported cousins. I have not idea how to explain this and have also written about this in another thread. If locally bred GSD have the same smaller size issue, then I am not sure the diet could change the growth much after 6 months. I am not a breeder, but I asked one kennel owner (big big kennel in Singapore) about my observation of smaller locally bred dogs. He confirmed what I have observed, and could not offer much explanation as well. He told me that he had tried diet and exercise, including pumping the pregnant bitch with bone meal. Give the puppy solid meat (protein) and barf diet. Nothing seem to be able to create similar bone and mass for large locally bred dogs. One point he did share to me which similar to somone mentioning earlier as well, that is he knew someone tried to rear his locally bred puppies in an air-condition environment. The puppy turn out pretty big for the whole litter.

The supplement you give is fine, but I will avoid Calcium because I think there are sufficent amount in the kibble. I will give more Vit. C because there is not much harn done since it is water soluble and passed if they are excessive. By the way, Vitamin C is quoted as a prevention cure for HD.

Well, I have answered your pano question earlier, and Rottweiler do have the same problem. Dragging a leg is not a good sign, you should check it out to make sure it is not an injury.


mackmack
Doggyman


Jul 4, 2003, 11:51 AM


Views: 5486
Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers

Dear Polluxx~

The current owner is taking full responsibility and care for . I will get myself my own dog in the near future and will definitely bring to join PuppyCom's outings when I'm home.


About "that thread", Yes, gained lots of help from a lot of members as well as the webmaster. Life without a k-9 fren by myside is tough! I've been brought up to be with dogs as my family members.

How am I going to cope with now? erm.... I'm glad to say I AM LUCKY to meet a puppy.com member here!! She is Strawhoney aka Amy. She has a golden retriever named "Odie". I'm happy that I could hangout with them in San Francisco... and it's been so wonderful to play with Odie, had Odie sit on my lap during our roadtrip, and had him sleep besides me when i stayed over night at Amy's apt. Please feel free to drop by my "member gallery" in the forum's photo gallery under my username " ". You will see my pics with , Odie, and some other dogs.


Having while i was studying in Michigan, that's the most wonderful doggie-experience that I've ever had. Coz he is my very first dog to own and to raise and to train by myself~ I'm very proud of him.

I sure have more interesting story about to be shared with you~ Smile Well... but i've shared a lot of the "same old stories" in other threads too. Maybe you could just browse around this site and enjoy the reading~! Erm... one more alternative: most members do chat in MSN messenger where we could have more casual chats. If you do have an MSN account, feel free to add me in:


--I have Howling Bean and Lazy Mack.--


(This post was edited by mackmack on Jul 4, 2003, 11:52 AM)


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Jul 5, 2003, 8:57 PM


Views: 5464
Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers

Thanx chilmson, for ur feedback on the HD issue ! it is definitely most enlightening. Abt the Vit C use for HD , I'v read on the net tht it will not prevent HD but will help to prevnt the lession from getting worse is tht true ? ? By the way, in Singapore who will analyse the hip's x-ray...the individual clinic's vet or there is a panel of vets like the American OFA system.....??

Abt the size issue, so its true then if the puppies r rear in an cooler environment, then their able to develop into a much larger or substantial size dog.
Maybe I should take my dog to some highland area to grow up where it is cooler Wink b'coz air-conditioned kennel is definitely out of my budget. Unsure ...geee....I wonder does this apply to human as well ? ? Wink

Just wanna clarify something wt u, when u say peak growth at 9-10 mths old, r u saying at that time the growth rate is the biggest or is it simple that the growth rate will stop..? ? my question is basically when will the puppy reach its adult's height (not size) ...? ?

By the way have a nice weekend ...! ! (wt ur dog of course..!! Cool..)






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Jul 5, 2003, 9:19 PM


Views: 5463
Re: [mackmack] Rottweilers

Hi ,

Glad to know u meet another puppy.com kaki in US, so where r u based now....San Fran or Michigan ??

I have yet to register wt MSN, maybe when I do I'll drop u a note...! Wink

So any idea which breed of k9 fren will u be getting in the future..?? GR again, ...Labrador..?? how abt GSD or even Rottie..? ...they r easy to train & fun to play with as well ....Angelic ....! !

Guess wht, I just got my dog a hiking bag from S'pore....thinking of doing some little hiking wt my dog around some of the estate around my place this coming weekend. By the way, hav u ever try hiking wt ur previously...I heard they r kinda popular at States.....!!






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


mackmack
Doggyman


Jul 6, 2003, 12:17 AM


Views: 5462
Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers

Hi Polluxx~Smile

I would claim myself residing in California State where I move around between LA city and Sillicon Valley, and will visit San Francisco once a while.

Please get the MSN messenger version 6 and add me into your list. We sure can further our chat topics over there~Wink

In near future, I will be getting retrievers again as I'm more comfortable to keep them. As for my own favor, I"m actually hoping to get a PUG. Well~ I leave it as my dream dog. Sometimes, we don't really have to have what we dream about, better leave it as a wish~ But if I had a chance, I'll get a PUG or a beagle. Right now, am still not good in that 2 breeds. Need more self preperation on that.Tongue

No GSD on my list.... becoz I simply bias. Don't ask me why, I just dun wanna offend anyone hereWink. No Rotti at this moment... coz I don't have much confidence on M'sia breed. Rotti suppose with a great temperament and human oriented. Anyway~ not quite true to be seen in M'sia. Again, I'm bias.
If you let me choose between GSD & Rotti, I'll go with Rotti~, but both aint on my listTongue

When I had with me in US, the outdoor activities that we could go were limited. In my town, the place snow from Oct till May.... how and where to hike nei....Crazy But we jogged a lot. At least twice a day in the morning and evening. He loves to DIVE into the snow pile and do the swimming movement, till his whole body and face covered by the snow.LaughLaugh he's just soooooooooooo luvly~!!!

In the summer, I brought him with me to go fishing... been to lake side and the dam. But i dare not offleash him~ scared that the lake is too deep and I can't RETRIEVE him!! but he sure a out-going boy.... very well bahave when he's outdoor and always gimme a lot of FACESWink


--I have Howling Bean and Lazy Mack.--


chilimson
Member

Jul 6, 2003, 8:06 AM


Views: 5454
Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers

Hmm.. I think Vit. C is quoted in a research by someone on GSD, that he fed the pregnant dam and non of the puppies develop HD. Well, like I said before, there are so many attributes or multi-factorial issues regarding HD. Therefore, personally, I think Vit. C will help to prevent HD for those lines that do not synthesis or generate sufficient Vit. C. Therefore, I do not think it will "cure", but certainly it will help, and I do not think there is any downside risk because it is water soluble. There are several vets that could do x-ray properly, but I am not sure whether they are OFA certified.

Honestly, I still cannot concluded that puppies being raised in temperate climate are more substantial. The reason is because I have imported several puppies at 12 weeks old, and they grow up substantial as well. Therefore, I will not conclude without more substantial study being conducted. Unfortunately, I am not a breeder and do not spend time or have sufficient dog to do all the data collection. If I had to make a guess, then I think genes comes first and maybe the diet when the dam is expecting comes second. The diet and environment of the puppies come next, and so on. Just do not want you to spend months in Genting and not have you substantial dogs!Sly

If you feed appropriately and the puppy grows normally, then the height of the Rottie should be about what it is at 10 months or so. I do not think it will grow another inch in height, but they continue to grow in many areas. Like the male head really completely broaden after two to three years!Crazy Hmm...human are no different I think, but definitely living in the highlands will not create larger human. I think it follows the same logic of genes then environment if all else is equal. For example, all the newer generations tends to surpass their previous generation if you take an average. Someone once joke that the northerners spends more time hibernating and thus do not burn the calories as fast as the southerners. Thus if the food consumption is the same, then they have extra for growth versus being "burned away"!Tongue

Have a great weekend as well!


chilimson
Member

Jul 6, 2003, 8:18 AM


Views: 5450
Re: [mackmack] Rottweilers

Glad that you enjoy reading and I do agree that forum should be free, and probably you are well endow with the culture of America. However, I have live life to be more realistic than idealistic, because I see a big logo at the home page of the forum. Therefore, I still could share what I wanted without the need to say something negative about certain brand of food. Anyway, I think people should learn to read about the facts and decide for themselves what is good for their dogs.

Glad that you will consider a Rottie, and there are a lot of good kennels in California with German heritage Rottie.

If you missed local curry or food, then take a drive to McCarty Ranch Shopping Mall, there is a Banana Leaf restaurant in Milpitas. Another pretty neat restaurant in Castro Street vacinity at Mountain View as well.Sly


mackmack
Doggyman


Jul 6, 2003, 8:34 AM


Views: 5448
Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers

Hi chilimson~

I've been to Banana Leaf, ok ler... only the Rendang is good. It's more like an American-Malaysian food, not quite "jing-jong"Tongue I've brought my frens to LA's Penang Restaurant, we all agreed that Penang is way better than those in Sillicon Valley.... You should try the Renang Rest. in West CovinaSmile a lot of "dei-dou" dishes.

Heheheh...when talking about food, my enthusiasm is as much as talking about DogsBlush


--I have Howling Bean and Lazy Mack.--


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Jul 8, 2003, 8:57 PM


Views: 5432
Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers

Hi chilimson,

How's ur weekend, I see ur u r getting aquainted wt . Hey !why dun we try to physco on the benefit of owning a Rottie...ha..haTongue..!! since she is quite partial to Rottie anyway..!! Wink

Well first of all , do u know any good Rottie breeder/kennel in America...., I only know of a few.... such Jenecks, Stozenfels,von Eaglenest...etc ! Actually the one I m most impressed wt is Jeneck....I have read good things of this kennel in some GSD forum.

So have u ever own a rottie from US ? ?

I have been meaning to ask this question for quite a while, since u have been owning Rottie for a long time, have u ever trained them in Schutzhund/IPO before....as I understand from my fren...u do have Sch/IPO trainer in S'pore rite..? ?






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Jul 8, 2003, 9:22 PM


Views: 5431
Re: [mackmack] Rottweilers

Hi ,

How was ur weekend...? ? well sorry to hear that u r not too keen abt GSD.Shocked..I m just curious may I know...whts the reason behind this....if its ok wt u ...? Actually both Rotts & GSD r have great temperament if u choose the bloodline carefully. Anyway we have a very good and experience 'sifu' (chilimson) if u decided to go for a rottie. I m sure he will be able to help u to choose a very good rottie if u decided to get one. By the way I m sure once u have owned a rottie u will love it for life (this is coming from a person who has yet to own one yet but I have seen the relationship between a rottie & its owner...well the rottie is definitely a one man/woman dog)...So how abt keeping ur option open....Tongue..! ! ( jeez...I'm begining to feel like a salesman...Laugh..)

One other thing, since u r in the States... have u ever seen a competition called Schuzhund...it is very popular in Europe but getting more popular in States nowadays....the competition consist (tracking , obedience & protection routine) mostly participate by GSD & Rottie ppl. If u have not, I would really recommend u to go & see one ....I'm sure it is very popular in California state.

By the way, I not bias to GR...I like them as well...I used to go to a certain pet shop just to pet the owner's GR...very lovely dog.

By the way wht r u doing in States...studying or working..? ?






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


mackmack
Doggyman


Jul 8, 2003, 9:34 PM


Views: 5430
Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers

My weekend was OK, nothing much special~

Why I'm not into GSD?? the reason I could give if... i'm not keen at all. If i saw one on the street, I will still go up front and pat the dog, but if you ask me to keep one, not this moment. Just don't have a strong feeling towards GSD, probably.... i don't like the stood-up ears, the sharp nose and they all look skinny compare to GR. I prefer those broad head, ears drop down, face look silly and ugly.... butt round round one.... Like Bullmastiff, Bull terrier, Bulldog, Pug, etc. Those face look too smart one like GSD and Border Collie, i scared they will "climb over my head". I like dogs with some attitute, so... as obedient as GSD and Collie, i will feel a bit DULL to keep as just a guard dog. that's what I'm bias at.

I'm not really into dog show. Normally I just watch those shows from TV, never been to any live show ring. Even the TV show, I prefer the funniest animal or the Star animal, and some true stories. Coz I think dog shows are very political and depends on what favor the judges.

-I'm a graduate holding a student visa.


--I have Howling Bean and Lazy Mack.--


Alexthian
Dog Kichi

Jul 8, 2003, 9:59 PM


Views: 5428
Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers

Smile
hello all rott lover ,my name is alex,and i had a 1 1/2 year male rott aslo,and i brought it from j.b
i think my problem aslo same like what your guy discuss here. my rotti aslo don't came whit big head ,short leg... even that he farther is yugo import. but for my case i go to the kennel and choose the bigger baby from that birth..and when my rotti is small(6 week to 8 week),.he go a big head ,storng leg..but when he grown up he shape is total run out....
even i try to give him the best diet ,vitamin,egg,meat... but still he is look like doberman,but not so high la...
this reallly make me very sad,because b4 i buy this puppy,i go to the dog show ,i saw the rott they all very strong and fit..and i know that rott all is import,but because i thing malaysia boleh,so i brought the local breed rotti,and other reson is no enought $$$ to buy the import 1(i check whit the oversea breeder one show rotti they ask about RM 20000 to RM40000 include the flight)..
so i had ask so many people b4,they said most of the rotti (loocal breeder)is like this because the breeder more of them is want the nomber and not the quality...so they none stop to breed they dog,and they dog is over breed so they quality of the puppy came put is very low...
so now i still lokking for the rott,becasue i realliy want to join the dog show...if any want of you saw any good rott,hope you can let me know ..thank you!


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Jul 9, 2003, 5:40 AM


Views: 5418
Re: [mackmack] Rottweilers

Hi ,

Hey , why sound so dull abt ur weekend, maybe all u need to brighten ur day is to get a k9 companion !! Smile

Now I know why u dun like GSD..Unimpressed...well I hope I'm sorry if I'm gonna bore u with this but do u know GSD has evolved into 3 major bloodline :
1.) American Showline
2.) German/Europe Showline
3.) Working line

the American showline is the type u mentioned in ur post such skinny/silly looking face and mostly poor temperament. Well since u r in States u should be able to see the all three bloodline, wht I would like suggest is , if u have the time, do chk out some web-sites & search for working line GSD namely for DDR/Czech GSD (DDR stands for former East German) well they really have huge head & bone. I heard they also have very strong attitude/temperament (dominant) - and being from the working line....well the dog is active & do just abt anything wt u ..such swimming, retrieving, hide & seekLaugh...& also protect u from harm.. as i read in other GSD forum the things is DDR/Czech bloodline is getting very popular in States among the GSD fanciers of working-line.

By the way, Schuzhund is not a dog show...& u know what, I agree wt u that the dog show kinda political. The only reason I go to dog show here is b'coz I like to watch dogs & that sure beats the hell than staying at home, unless of course it is showing 'Dogs wt Job' (on the National Geographic channel)...Smile

But unlike me , u have so much things to look out for in States..such as the Schuzhund things I told u abt .....well how do I describe it...Crazy .!. Well it is actually a dog sport/activity originally created to test the working ability of GSD...followed..by..Rottie..dobbie & other working breed in Germany to determine whether they r suitable for breeding or not. The test include a tracking test , obedience & protection (willingness to protect their owners from harm) ...u should take opportunity to take a look (how I envy u.......Sly)
maybe u can chk out this site



Do check their EVENTS...followed by 'Regional Events' and they have a few trials lining up in California if I m not mistaken...hopefully somewhere near ur place..!! hey maybe u can even see some DDR GSD in the trials..


Until next time.....cheers...Wink..!!






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


(This post was edited by Polluxx on Jul 9, 2003, 6:19 AM)


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Jul 9, 2003, 6:16 AM


Views: 5414
Re: [Alexthian] Rottweilers

Hi Alex,

Glad to see u in this thread, I thk u dun have to worry abt ur rottie, if I m not mistaken..being only 1.5 yrs old it is still gonna grow (putting on muscle, head grow bigger..etc..)

Maybe chilimson can advise u....
p/s : he is our expert on board on Rottie..! Tongue

So where did u get ur rottie in JB..?? I didn't know any JB breeder wt Yugo Rottie...only knew of a few wt German line. How abt the dam, where is she from..?? By the way what is the sire & dam name if u dun mind !!

I agree wt u , I thk there is a lot of backyard & puppy mills rottie breeder in m'sia nowadays. A lot of them r in only for the money wt no concern for the breed health & also this indiscriminate breeding has turn a up a lot of temperament problem rottie. I myself kno of a fren (actually my fren's brother) who took their rottie (no pedigree, no health check) to breed wt another female rottie just to get another one as their rottie is getting old & sell the rest of the litter.

I thk u dun have to worry abt joining the show, as long as ur rottie dun have disqualifying faults such as long coat , undershot/overshot jaw, missing teeth...etc. I m sure u can still participate in the show without any problem. Actually it doesn't matter whether u can win or not but the fun u have together wt ur dog is what that counts....Wink

Have fun....cheers Smile






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


mackmack
Doggyman


Jul 9, 2003, 10:57 AM


Views: 5407
Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers

Polluxx~

Getting a k9-companion? that's what I always wanted too after went back to Msia. But keeping a dog is a commitment. if i'm not ready now, I won't go for it no matter how doggie-maniac I am. Moreover, I have plenty of chances to pat dogs everywhere I go in US. Odie, the GR belongs to Strawhoney, he's fun to play with too.

you are not the only one who urge me to go for dog shows in US, especially I'm now in California where plenty of dogs shows are going on like almost weekly. Ok Ok... I shall go and find out the venue, date, and events. I'm now in Sillicon valley, can you give me an idea where about to start with? Don't tell me AKC, i always get lost while browsing their site... too much info, dunno which one to look up for. But if you do know the URL for particular events in certain area, pls share with me.

Til now, I'm still not keen in GSD. Still cant get myself a strong reason.Tongue


--I have Howling Bean and Lazy Mack.--


Alexthian
Dog Kichi

Jul 9, 2003, 4:12 PM


Views: 5404
Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers

Smile so great to read your reply,if i'm not mistake,polluxx you aslo came from jb right? about the breeder in jb,i can let you know his name and the kennel name la,...but i think i better tell you thought the email loo....because too sensitiff here...hope you can under stand..


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Jul 11, 2003, 5:02 AM


Views: 5374
Re: [mackmack] Rottweilers

Hi ,

Just found out that my earlier reply to u has just been overide wt a day old database Frown ... anyway..do chk out the following web sites on Schutzhund trial ;

www.germanshepherddog.com/
www.dvgamerica.com/

BTW how did u use phoro as ur Avatar..? m thinking of using my dog picture as my Avatar..Wink

have fun..Smile






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


(This post was edited by Polluxx on Jul 11, 2003, 5:05 AM)


mackmack
Doggyman


Jul 11, 2003, 8:18 AM


Views: 5386
Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers

Hi Polluxx~

SmileYup, i saw your previous reply, I also wrote u a reply on that too.... but all gone. I've clicked into the "previous" URL that u sent me, but there's no address for the venue. Hehehhe.... I remember u asked for my age... eh, I talked like an OLD lady meh?Mad just passed my 26 bday on tuesday~Blush

Mmm.... the AVATAR pic. You may goto EDIT PROFILE, there browse your favourite doggie pic and upload. You shall see it attached to all of your posts instantly. TRY it~ and you may change it from time to time as you wish~Wink


--I have Howling Bean and Lazy Mack.--


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Jul 11, 2003, 8:33 PM


Views: 5378
Re: [mackmack] Rottweilers

Hi ,

So have u been to the 2 sites...I recomended...? ? Anyway I hope u will like it..!

No lah.....me know ur not old la......just tot that I should NOT be asking a girl "how old is her.." Tongue...btw..hope I m not too late "HAPPY 26th BIRTHDAY" ...CoolCoolCool..!!

BTW way did ever have any obsession wt digging ? ? well my GSD (abt 7 mths old) is now so obsesed wt digging that my small garden is almost botak now. Just read on another forum, they suggest putting some chili underneath the area the dog likes to dig...hmmmm...will be trying this over the weekend..! Laugh ....my mum is so frustated now....she say she will 'rotan' the dog if she catch him doing this..! Shocked the problem is he will only dig when nobody is around like at mid-nite or during the daytime when everybody is out.....me think he is playing a game of cat & mouse wt us...!! Crazy...other than that he is a very good boy...Wink...!






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Jul 11, 2003, 8:41 PM


Views: 5366
Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers

Hi chilimson,

Didn't hear from u for a while, anyway just wanna check wt u will u be attending the coming SKC show this weekend (13th July) at S'pore Expo...?

I might be dropping by for a while just to see-see & look-look...?? Wink






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Jul 11, 2003, 8:57 PM


Views: 5365
Re: [Alexthian] Rottweilers

Hi Alex,

I thk my earlier reply to u has been erased, anywhere here's my e-mail just in case u didn't read my earlier post :

BTW alex...did u go to the recent Rottweiler specialty show in Ipoh few weeks ago...? ? I miss it b'coz of work commitment & it was a bit too far away..! Frown
Anyway...if u did go...do u know who r the winners in the ..? ? I m sure it must be the imports again...! !

Hopefully the Rott Chapter will organise another specialty show before end of the yr.






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


chilimson
Member

Jul 13, 2003, 6:28 AM


Views: 5364
Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers

Hi Alex, sorry that I was having problem accessing the forum and it just took way too long and hang sometimes. I am aware that there are Yugo imports in Malaysia, but I had never met the breeder personally except some exchanges of emails. I am not in the pet trade and it is a little inconvenient for me to engage in pet "business" world.

I am no expert per Polluxx mentioned, but I am just crazy about this breed and so I spend a lot more time following the German bloodline. If you really could trust the breeder's pedigree certificate, then you could email me and I will try to do some research on their genetic heritage. But I have to tell you this straight, that you can get anything with money from Yugoslavia (or previous Eastern block) per what I was told. Please do not assume all the imports from there are bad, but what it means is that you need to do a little more work on checking.

At 1.5 years old, your male would have finished growing from the height standpoint, and you will have to exercise him and let his physique grow a little more. This is a very important period for his temperament development as well, so you must watch him now. His head will broaden until his is two to three years old. Normally, male head are broader than female, and so be a little more patient if you are comparing him with his father.

Like I mentioned earlier, I am not in the pet trade and so do not engage in any of the politics or gossips in the dog circle. Furthermore, I have never attend any MKA shows or know anyone to give you any advice. But I am trying to figure out how to breed "nice" Rottie in this region, and will share if I know the answer.


chilimson
Member

Jul 13, 2003, 7:03 AM


Views: 5362
Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers

Hi Polluxx, just having access problem to this forum. By the way, I will never pyscho anyone into owning a Rottie without knowing the person and the environment that the Rottie will be raise. I think this breed is not for everyone, but it is definitely one of the greatest breed to have if you can handle them.

America is a great country with a lot of diversity, and certainly there are also a lot of breeders and opinions. However, I think there are a few governing bodies registered and supported, and they do not collaborated as a single body like ADRK. Therefore, you must do more due diligence if you are looking for a dog in America, and there are many great kennels depending on who you trust. Jenecks and Stozenfels all started with German lines, and I think Janecks could safely claim to have start their own "type" of American Rottweilers that are both great in conformation and working abilities. I will think the Stozenfels kennel is still pretty link with German bloodline for now, anyway, this is personal opinion.

The first Rottie I was given had US bloodline, and that is how I became obsessed with this breed. Then I try to buy local breed, but was a little disappointed. Finally, decided to import myself from UK, Germany and Europe. So far, I think the German imports are great, and not the rest in terms of HD. I am not saying that the German imports are without faults, but I think you probably will not be "cheated" knowingly or unknowingly. Again, I think we are dealing with nature and moral judgement of breeders, however, I really think that ADRK does help to create a better governance for all the breeders and also maintian a good data base (dogbase) that one can purchase.

I know there are police dog trainers in Singapore, but I am not sure whether they are certified SchH/IPO trainers. I have never train my Rottie for SchH/IPO, but did do obedience till intermediate stage. Just do not have all the time to do all these regimented training and also I am not in the circle to have the need for my dog to be SchH/IPO trained.

Yes, I will be at the show.


mackmack
Doggyman


Jul 14, 2003, 1:00 AM


Views: 5360
Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers

Polluxx~

Thanks for your belated greetings~Smile MACK did the digging stuff before. but not too often. Coz I used to have him indoor and floor is carpeted, no where he could dig "happily". But when he's in the backyard, he only did the digging when we BBQ at the griller and had him on leash.. hahahah.... too obvious, he's trying to DIG out the attention~Wink But no worries... as long as they are not addicted to digging, and u know theya re only doing so to get your attention, see ~ u had the answer already.... the digging will stop when u pay him enough attention.


--I have Howling Bean and Lazy Mack.--


mackmack
Doggyman


Jul 14, 2003, 1:02 AM


Views: 5359
Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers


In Reply To
......, I will never pyscho anyone into owning a Rottie without knowing the person and the environment that the Rottie will be raise. I think this breed is not for everyone, but it is definitely one of the greatest breed to have if you can handle them.

Truely agree with you.Smile Being a dog lover need not to own a dog if he or she is not ready for the breed.


--I have Howling Bean and Lazy Mack.--


chilimson
Member

Jul 14, 2003, 5:04 AM


Views: 5355
Re: [mackmack] Rottweilers

Hi Mack Mack,

I am glad you agree, because I think this breed had many owners that do not understand about them and how to train and handle them. Unfortunately, they also have certain temperamental endowment, especially those from strong working bloodline, that will be a disaster for those who think that they are like GSD. Anyway, I think there is just too many breeding for just monetary benefits without consideration of the breed or the owner.

After more than 15 years, I am still learning about the breed. But I am really amaze with them, and how bloodline and genetics really have imprint on the young.


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Jul 14, 2003, 9:16 PM


Views: 5349
Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers

Hi chilimson,

Jeeezzzz....guys...I didn't really meant to "psyhco".. .. ..into getting a rottie..Frown.....it was just a figure of speech.. Sly....anyway like I say... earlier is mature enough to make up her own mind.....no harm intended.....Angelic. As you mentioned earlier this breed is not for everybody which I totally agreed ..... coz there is already enough bad owners who r tarnishing the good names of this breed....but then me think will make a wonderful owner coz she is much mature and sensible (Oops..! here I go again..Wink..sorry !..).... and personally I felt what is lacking (at least in M'sia) is responsible owner.....too many ppl in M'sia r only interested in keeping rottie as a guard dog (with no exercise, games, training etc..) just chain-up in the front yard for the whole day. "Just like a time bomb waiting to explode"!

By the way, as mentioned in ur post, wht r the current prevalent workingline bloodline coz....I can't really distinguished the ADRK breeder whether they r workingline / highline breeder, so far the line tht I know of r v Hammmerbactal, Schwaiger Wappen, Schwaiger Rathus .....thats all....hopefully u can help me here by highlighting a few more breeder that into workingline......coz I understand from my fren that the difference of workingline & highline is still not that far apart in Rottie unlike what has happened to the GSD. Also just wanna chk is Noris of workngline....? ?

BTW have u heard of this breeder : Schloss Hexental from Belgium.....if u have...pls let me know of wht u thk of it....?






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


mackmack
Doggyman


Jul 14, 2003, 9:51 PM


Views: 5348
Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers

Oooooooo...... thanks for your nice words, I really take them as a compliment to me. Smile So what makes you think that " will make a wonderful owner coz she is much mature and sensible"? am really curious to know how have you made such a conclusion?Blush I'm still learning.... and no doubt, i'm confident in keeping retrievers than in any other breeds. To me, Rottie sure a good guard dog with GENTLE temperament. Just "dunno why" (well~ u know i knowTongue) the breed in M'sia is getting agressive and "disasters" happened not only once or twice but many many times. It is a shame to see those irresponsible rottie owners/breeders SLOWLY build up a fierce and agressive rottie whatever-lines. Not to say I'm cold blooded... ok? But i truely feel that many cases of dog-bites-passerby, the culprit are the victims themselves.

Think about this.... some old folks they do morning walk everyday with an umbrella or cane or stick or tree trunk. Then wehn they pass by the house with dog, they raise the "weapon" to threat the dog like showing WARNING sign before the dog really do anything to them. Day by Day, the dog will think :"hw could this old lady hates me so much? is she going to hit me kuat-kuat or trying to break into the house?" the hatred from the dog to this passerby raised and accumulated days after days. Then ONE FINE DAY, if the dog was out on the street, and if he saw this lady with a "weapon", he will either think this lady is going to hit him, then he better initiate "self-protection" before he get hits. Or, he already hated this lady for such a long time, and this the time for revenge. Or, the dog is very tame and do nothing on the street, BUT the lady thought the dog going to hurt her, so she better use the weapon to attack the dog while she still can do self-protection. Innocently the dog got attacked and sure will reacted BADLY as canine instinct la~

So... who to blame? (just to share a bit of my thoughts on what has been going tru in m'sia about dog attack cases, and why would the rottie becomes such an agressive breed in m'sia?)


--I have Howling Bean and Lazy Mack.--


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Jul 15, 2003, 5:59 AM


Views: 5342
Re: [mackmack] Rottweilers

Hi ,

Well u dun really have to thank me for anything, the way I see it by virtue of you not going out immediately to get another doggie hastily after is gone, goes to show tht u r a responsible person who takes dog-ownership seriously and as a lifetime companion....Smile
....but I can't say so abt myself...without my family restricting me...I would have gotten myself a whole lot of them..Wink

I do agree wt that sometimes it is the victim who started the whole thing ...but like they say it takes two 2 tango...so being a responsible breeder/owner is equally of much important.

I really dread to see that one day rottie, GSD or other working breeds goes the way of wht happen to pitbull..Frown.. .(being banned in M'sia), to prevent more of such things from happening again, I believe educating the public is very important especially to the younger generation since they r the key to the future of the well being of our k9 fren. Therefore forum such as this plays a very significant part in our effort to educate more ppl abt our k9 fren.....many kudos to the forum adminstrator..! ..Cool


BTW I thk socialization of our doggie fren from puppyhood is the key in reducing canine agression but then I believe b'coz of our society (in M'sia) its a bit hard to bring our doggie fren out 2 socialize without causing a scene {such as getting a stare here & there, whispering as u walk by, cursing etc...} ....so some if not most ppl just simply give up the idea...wht a shame..Unsure

...so now...u know how much I envy u being State..Blush

BTW did u chk out the 2 sites I recomended .... how was it...???






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


mackmack
Doggyman


Jul 15, 2003, 1:56 PM


Views: 5338
Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers

Yes, Polluxx, i've visited the 2 websites you showed me, but sorry to tell ya~ I didn't spend much time in browsing them, i jsut glanced tru and at least i know where to look up for the shows~

I still don't think Rottie is an agressive breed, but they do have the potential due to their instinct as being Guard dog. GSD, still a NO to me. This morning i watched the Animal Planet (i watch every morning) and saw this scene of GSD and GR, i tried to pay more attention to the GSD but sad to tell la.... i dun like the ears. Totally bias.Blush


--I have Howling Bean and Lazy Mack.--


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Jul 17, 2003, 3:33 AM


Views: 5329
Re: [mackmack] Rottweilers

Hi ,

just read ur post.."dun like the ears (GSD)"....??...why..?? too wolfish looking...? Wink..Talking abt wolf... have u seen wolf-hybrid in state ?? it seems that there r quite a number of wolf-hybrid breeder in US..?? Whats ur take on this type of breeding..?? As I understand there seems to be a lot of debate going on over this ? ?






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Jul 17, 2003, 3:54 AM


Views: 5328
Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers

Hi chilimson,

back to ur earlier post abt ADRK's dogbase system, what do u think of it ?is the dogbase really a usefool breeding tools..?? I think the SV also have a similar system for GSD but I thk it is only for hips only & if I m not mistaken , I thk is called "zuchwerts" or commonly refer as zw no.

I know u r not a breeder, but just wanna ask a hypohethical question , "would u breed by basing on dogbase alone..?" . the reason I m asking this is b'coz I never seen the local breeder (in M'sia) putting the dogbase no. of their import studs/bitches on their advertisement...? my take on this is that most breeders nowadays r only going for the head sizes & body sizes so they r neglecting the other aspect such as prepotency for HD or ED in their quest for the biggest rott wt the largest head.

Wht's ur take on this...?






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


mackmack
Doggyman


Jul 17, 2003, 8:57 AM


Views: 5320
Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers


In Reply To
Hi ,

just read ur post.."dun like the ears (GSD)"....??...why..?? too wolfish looking...? **Yes, more or less... that's part of the reason. and... i have only a few preference of dog breeds... they must look ugly and silly.Tongue


--I have Howling Bean and Lazy Mack.--


chilimson
Member

Jul 18, 2003, 5:58 AM


Views: 5313
Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers

Well, I hope this will stay on until I post, because the system performance is not great. I think the dogbase is really a guide if you have no better references, because the dog base is based on whatever data that is available for the information to be compiled honestly. Therefore, those dishonest omission as well as those people who do not bother to show,train or breed will not bother to have their dog statistics compiled or even those health checked.

Therefore, the best selection is still based on the experienced breeders, sharing with you what their stud or bitch produces. Then you look at their offsprings to determine and study the genes in term of genotype or phenotype. If the stud or dam has never been used, then look at their siblings and what they produce. Next is look at their grandparents and what they throw, because sometimes you will be very surprised that the puppies really carry or show more of their grandparents attribute than that of their parents.

I really do not think that the local clubs or associations nor the buyers or breeders have interest or resources to set this data base up. There is real need for morale, monetary, governance and passion to uphold the betterment of the breed. What do you think will be the premium that people are willing to pay for a puppy that is having solid pedigree?Laugh How many people will bother whether they have Noris, Balou, Hero, Dingo, Doc, Rick, Aki, etc. in the bloodline? Or how many people will understand the Schwaiger Wappen, Teufelsbrucke, Hertener Wappen, Flugschneise. Bleichstrasse, Grunterblick, Burgthann, etc...kennels?

I know you asked me about a working kennel in Belgium, and the breeder is Guy who also wrote a book that I did buy. I have almost all the Rottweiler books that are seriously written, and I think he does a good job documenting what he knows in Western Europe. I will also not comments on kennels on a forum, but am more than willing to help you if you have a particular dog in mind, Please email me privately.


Alexthian
Dog Kichi

Jul 18, 2003, 8:52 PM


Views: 5308
Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers

hello : polluxx:

sorry for late reply...mm...i aslo didn't go to the ipoh ..so i dunno who is the winner...

any way if i go the answer later ..i will let you know ok>


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Jul 18, 2003, 9:00 PM


Views: 5307
Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers

Hi chilimson,

Maybe u have misundertood my query, but basically my question was why dun these so called breeders over this part of the world do not used the dogbase provided by ADRK as a breeding guide, wht I m trying 2 say is that the dog imported by them if is registered wt ADRK will come wt a dogbase no. ....correct ? and I m very sure there is quite a no. of them (ADRK registered import) around..?? therefore wt this breeding tools on hand ....maybe they should try plannng their breeding program using it..! On the other hand when they advertised their planned breeding .....they can also incl the dogbase of both the sire & dam , as this will help the buyers to make an informed choice as well...!.....Wink...well I for one will definitely like to know whether my future puppy is prone to HD & ED or even potential of the head size will be...??

Like u have mentioned, I would not believe that in the forseeable future our local clubs, assc & breeders will ever have the interest to make use of what is already made availabe to them for use in the betterment of the breed. What a shame......but still I hope I m wrong...!..Frown

BTW talking abt Sch Hex kennel, I have also bought the book from him....well even though IMO the book is a bit short ...I still felt it was much better than the other American books that I have bought -what a waste of money !! Mad)

Guy's book was quite enlightening...I didn't know all those yesteryr Great Dogs such Dingo has bloodline to the Austr Mil Dog. I thk from his book he is quite fond of "Igor Mutsmandorff".....and I thk he is from a one of the great police dog ..wht's the name..aah....Crazy...I thk is ..."Probener" something rite..! anyway..I got one video showing him doing his Schutzhund routine...very-very focus fella...u can see his eyes never leave his handler....! oh...how I wish to own a dog such as him...Blush

Wish the book could have been longer though...! Unimpressed

....I m actually looking for serious book abt Rott / GSD...do u have any in mind that u can recommend..? BTW wht's ur e-mail ? u can e-mail me at






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


chilimson
Member

Jul 19, 2003, 7:34 PM


Views: 5297
Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers

I do not know exactly how they compile that statistics, but this is what I think. First, the dog base does not accompany the puppy that you import, because it has not been tested. You can get their parents data, but it must be bought because they are not printed in the pedigree certificates. I think they are not printed because the data will changed as they gather more data from what they produce, and in the future of what their kids produce. Therefore, the dogbase is kept alive way after the dogs are still producing.

If the people who import the dog, and I think the only way they could have a dog base numbers is to get the dog back to Germany for a ZTP. Again, who will do it and who are the buyers locally that care to know or bother about it like I mentioned earlier. It used to be easier to get dogbase data from the forum, but no so now as there is really some few people out there in the forums waiting to pick unnecessary fights and disrupts the learning and educating goals of a forum. I will not have mind buying the dogbase, but I know no German and tried a few time to join the ADRK and never got a response. Anyway, I do not intend to import anymore, because of the recent few disappointments. The sad truth is unless you have lots of money to throw, or you have some connections, then you will never get the "best" dogs through importation. Go and select your puppy is probably the best strategy after you have done all your homework. Going by the rules that you trust the breeder is OK, but I think you will never get the "best". I know there is always going to be debate on what is the "best". Here I assume that you do are not willing to risk a lot of trial and error, and hope for the best.

Having made all those statement above, I think it is biased to conformation aspect because I assume you wanted to show and work. But if you are looking just for work, then I think it is safe to go with famous kennels. Although it is not published widely because I do not read German, but I can see that certain kennels tends to breed towards working dog.

You do not own a Rottie, but I am puzzle with your interest and eagerness to know so much more about the breed. Are you in some trade relating to canine or training? Please do not answer if you think I am intruding, because am just curious. Will send you my email address.


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Jul 20, 2003, 1:59 AM


Views: 5293
Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers

Maybe ur rite, . . . its too much an hassle to use the dogbase as a breeding tools, but me think all it takes is a bit of encouragement/effort from the breed club/chapter will b enough to get things going ..!

Well my interest in rott & GSD may have been b'coz of the German way of regulating the breeding of these two breeds...such as breed suitably test (Ztp), Korung, Schutzhund (VPG) , & also the recent dogbase system ...etc . The way I see it, just look at the different breeds of dog that we see today, I would dare say this is the results of breeding based on their function or working ability over many generations by our ancestor which contribute to their genotype & phenotype. But look at wht we have done in the recent years to most breeds....they are bred based on how good they look & how much blue ribbons they won , it doesn't matter whether the dog has the working drives or not or even whether he has HD/ED or not...they were still being bred. Wht will happen to the breed in the next 3-4 generation down the road..? ? will they still have the drive to work, to lead the blind, for SAR works, or even as Police K9. Shocked

That is why I admire the system employed by the Germans ... they have the foresight to be concern abt this degeneration , therefore took the necessary steps to screen & preserved this workings aspect as well as the breed type in their beloved breed.
I m opening a can of worms here so me think I better ......stop...! Tongue


So wht do u thk of Shl Hex..? ? would appreciate ur feedback...Wink ..as I m comm wt Guy thru e-mail but he take ages to answr , but I should thk he is one of the ethical breeder out there......just look at his books....I thk he is very passionate abt rott. Angelic






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


(This post was edited by Polluxx on Jul 20, 2003, 2:02 AM)


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Jul 20, 2003, 2:08 AM


Views: 5291
Re: [mackmack] Rottweilers

Hi ,

"i have only a few preference of dog breeds... they must look ugly and silly. "

how do u define "ugly & silly".....? ? droopy ears..? ?
Wink

Well my GSD looks like a clown do u thk he qualify ..!Sly....maybe I should post his photos for u to see.






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


mackmack
Doggyman


Jul 20, 2003, 7:49 AM


Views: 5286
Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers

Hi Polluxx~

YES. Droopy ears~!!!Laugh Broad forehead, floppy cheek, silly face, sometimes smart and most of the time with either pity look or samsing look~ must know how to trick me, and always do some silly things to get me angry, but will also know how to correct his mistakes. Understand my words but need not obey my instructions all the time. Must have Attitude. The body structure must be tough and wide, especially the thighs so that I could beat him kau-kau but he still enjoy it~Laugh ROUND BUTT. Mmmm.... what else?Crazy know how to drool for food. oh yeah! BIG paws...

I should have more "requirements", but that's all for now.

I dont' hate GSD, I love large breed dogs. If I chance upon your GSD, I'm sure will hug hug him, whack his thighs kuat-kuat and play tough toughWink But for me to keep one for YEARS... erm... still a NO for now.


--I have Howling Bean and Lazy Mack.--


ymon
Novice


Jul 20, 2003, 7:49 AM


Views: 5285
Re: [neurotoxicz] Rottweilers

Hi, we have a female rottie too. She is now 5.5 months old and we have decided to spay when she is 6 months old. I heard from a breeder said the rottie puppy look more like Dobermann when they are around 4 to 7 months old. We wanted to spay her just because we want her to have a more healthy longer life (and also we don't know how to breed puppy). Shocked I am not sure our rottie are from which genetic line but we think that she is absolutely beautiful and cute. We wanted her to be a companion with our kids (kids' first dog) than just guard the house. And I don't think rottie is a aggressive dog, it is really depands on the owner how to treat the dog. I have posted my rottie at Photo Gallery under the name Roxylee. Don't you think she look more like Dobermann at this stage?Tongue

SmileMaggie


chilimson
Member

Jul 20, 2003, 6:18 PM


Views: 5282
Re: [ymon] Rottweilers

Hi Maggie, I have seen her picture and she looks good at 5.5 months old. She is more a Rottie than a Dob, as far as I can see. There are no shots you have of her, but the close up is not proportional for any comments, except of confirming that she got good dark eyes (at least 2b). Her head looks okay for a female and her flews are also dark. Ears are set correctly and think it will grow out okay as well. Watch her grow now and please train her as well. They should be taught now and do not think that she is a puppy and you let her off. Make sure that she get correction for any aggressive or over dominant behaviour. Rottie are big dog, and please do not overfeed her or exercise her too rigorously because they could get hurt. Letting her play on her own is fine. If you take her side view, please post it. Beautiful pup!


mackmack
Doggyman


Jul 22, 2003, 1:30 AM


Views: 5270
Re: [ymon] Rottweilers

Okay~ That's you! "ymon"!

I luv your Sexy Rottie ROXY very much!!!


--I have Howling Bean and Lazy Mack.--


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Jul 23, 2003, 5:08 AM


Views: 5263
Re: [ymon] Rottweilers

Hi ymon,

U got urself one cool looking rottie. I like the nonchalant look that she pose for the camera...yep she knows she is the boss.Cool

Fully agree wt u, rott is not an agressive breed ..it is all in the hands of the owner. Tongue

Just wanna share wt u this , I got this female mixed breed which I spayed when she was abt 7-8 mths old (b'coz we got another male dog around), ever since then she is very nervous & jumpy whenever we go to the vet for check-up, so I was thinking if u dun have another male dog in ur house maybe u can consider spaying her when she is more mature (mentally) at 1 yr old.

BTW ur girl is definitely rottie looking, it is just matter of time before its head is more pronounced looking.Smile






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


Booker
Dog Kichi


Oct 7, 2003, 9:58 PM


Views: 3544
Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers

Hi Chilimson,I'm so admire on your knowledge on rottweiler.It seems like you really know what is happening out there.I'm just a beginner who just start to keep rott a month ago.I have 1 female Rott called Riff.Her father was imported from Yugoslavia and mother is Hungary line.I found that recently ppl keeps on talking about Yugoslavia line in Malaysia, such like Bronko but I never see you mention about Bronko at all. May I know y?(For me Bronko is really a very beutiful stud dog.So do his son,Djakomo)Is there an important issue to make sure whether the blood line is from Germany or else where? I really don't know.For me,as long as he/she is a responsible breeder and the dog that he/she breed fit the standard then that will be good enough.
(P.S:Can I have your email so that I can keep in touch with you more easily?)


chilimson
Member

Oct 8, 2003, 7:41 AM


Views: 3535
Re: [Booker] Rottweilers

Hi Booker,

Keeping Rottie is my passionate hobby and I do not get involved with any pet trading stuff, and so I try my best to share what I have learnt over the last 15 years. It is not that I am bias towards one country's dog over another, but rather it is in my personal opinion, after spending a lot of personal money and time, that I learnt to trust the German system. I would not say that there are no money politics involved in Germany or all the breeders are ethical. But I think they have a better governance, despite whatever you have heard. Every country thus will have ethical breeders, but certain countries are definitely worse than others. You definitely can get a lot of nice dogs out of Hungary or Yugoslavia (actually it is now Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, etc.).

If you spent some time understanding the ADRK governance and also learn the bloodline, not champions or siegers only. If you like the working quality of Rottie, then it is important to study bloodlines and not just rely on "looks". Therefore, if you are only interested in showing the dog, then visit any of the East European countries or Begium, Holland, France, Italy, etc.,, see the dog or yearling you like and make sure you do a health check before you buy. However, if you are thinking of breeding or starting a kennel, then study the bloodline or go for the reliable German kennel. They do know something and tends to breed more consistent Rottie. Of course, if you are just tracking titles, then you may only end up with a tied bloodlines through the generations.

I do not want to avoid answering your question on Bronko, but he is just a excellent handsome dog. I will not breed him personally, and I will not go into details since you own an Yugoslavian dog and also there may be a lot of people who owns his line and wanted to breed and make some money out of their investments. All I would share with you is that he is not shown anymore after the World Sieger title, because of health related issue, but I think he is still being used as a stud because of the great looks and titles. The other point I will like to share with you is that you must do your own due diligence if you are really planning to start a kennel. In certain countries, you really could pay to get whatever certificates you want. I am not speculating here, but really I have been offered as well as I had spend a lot of money to learn this sad truth.

If you do genuinely likes to learn more about Rottie, you could email me at chilimson2003@yahoo.com. Please understand that I am a working professional and I will try my best to share and learn with you.


wcleong
Novice


Oct 8, 2003, 6:43 PM


Views: 3525
Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers

Hi... I am new guy around here!!! I agreed with chilimson that we can get a lot of beautiful dogs from the european block. But to be honest sometime the money we paid for won't give us the quality it should be. In fact I can say that my local breed of rottweiler is much more better than those imported one. Anyway although some of the imported dog is not that outstanding but they can still produce some outstanding progeny but this also depends on the genetic carry by the sire and dam. This is what we call as throwback where the puppy produced might carry some of the ch characteristic as their grandparent's. Currently I have a Bronko son out of Morro Vom Hause Marker daughter and also a bitch from Falko Od Sremcica(father side)which is a local breed out of great granddaughter of Aus. Ch. Habsburg Condor. While purchasing a rottweiler we must really look at their pedigree and make sure that it is not from a inbreeding litter because it really do not worth to own those progeny....


chilimson
Member

Oct 9, 2003, 5:44 AM


Views: 3510
Re: [wcleong] Rottweilers

How old is your Bronko son? How tall is he? Morro is a handsome dog, and just could not win in the German circuit because he is sold. I have not been able to track his kids much in Germany, so I cannot offer you much opinion. Is your Bronko's kid temperament okay? Could you share a little on this aspect because there are some breedings out of him that produce pretty "soft" Rotties. More like a GR or Lab versus a Rottie. I am not sure is Bronko's side or the dam side.


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Oct 9, 2003, 6:57 AM


Views: 3507
Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers

Hi chilimson,

I haven't heard from U for a while ! Smile

BTW did U notice that the recent ADRK Klubsieger seems be getting more particiaption of foreign rott breeders (outside Germany) esp from former Yugos countries, wht do U thk might be the impact on the breed development esp the temperament side ? Wink

One thing I can see the breed head size is getting bigger woudn't U say ! Tongue






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


wcleong
Novice


Oct 9, 2003, 7:52 AM


Views: 3505
Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers

 


wcleong
Novice


Oct 9, 2003, 8:08 AM


Views: 3501
Re: [wcleong] Rottweilers

Hello.. my Bronko son is about 20 months old and regarding his temperement I can said that he is a bit on the soft side @ timit although very obedient. In fact he have a very outstanding head type but a bit wasted by his leg coz it east west. I won'ty know whether it is genetically passed or cause by improper upbringing coz I bought the dog when he is 9 months old. In fact after I bought him I contacted the breeder from Yug. that send my Bronko son dam into MAlaysia that it is normal that dog's from Europe does possesed east west leg. In fact I can see that even Bronko Leg is slightly east west. Hope someone can tell me more about this issue...


chilimson
Member

Oct 9, 2003, 8:59 AM


Views: 3499
Re: [wcleong] Rottweilers

Hi Leong,

Thanks for the reply and I can also see your avatar, absolutely georgeous headpiece, and you also confirm my fear about his temperament. Not bad in term of looking for a pet Rottie, but it may be a little "soft" for a typical Rottie defination. This may affect his prey and drive instinct, but if you are not doing man-work or schz-type sport, then it is perfectly okay. Besides his legs, how is his back or topline? This is a public forum and so it is not too nice to comment about the negative side, and I hope you understand why I said that I will not breed him. Maybe I will put the issue to you the other way round, why do you think they are willing to sell you a dog with that kind of outstanding headpiece?

That is why I mentioned that you must see the dog and do a health check personally, because photos and papers can be very illusive. Worse of all if once the money crosses hand, I think you will get all kind of answers except the real one. Again, for those who read and are crazy about Rottie, go and find a reliable breeder. Do a lot of checking first, ask around before you buy. Because it is not very nice for people to comment after the fact as you will have to leave with the disappointment or the anger of being cheated. If you had seen the dog and took your chances, then there is no one to blame. I have learnt so I will try to share discreetly and I have read so much about dog genetic that I do not want to make to judgement for those who have bought their ideal dog. My advice is keep them as pet and do not breed, because you will be multipling the problem as there are not many serious breeders to research the bloodlines.

If you could afford it, or could find a food supplement call Gloucosomine Choride or Sulphate and Chondroitin Sulfate, please give them to your dog. I think Vitamin C is also good, but some people think it is nonsence. Therefore, I will leave it to you, but build up his rear muscles slower and do not overfeed him. Does his rear end look proportionately smaller than his front chest?


chilimson
Member

Oct 9, 2003, 9:28 AM


Views: 3497
Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers

Hi Polluxx,

Yes, hope everything is well with you and I have not been writing because there is not Rottie fanatics that chit chating on this forum. I have also been living on a suitcase last few weeks, so only manage to read and not write. Actually, I was in the west coast and thought of writing to Mack Mack, but was so busy and decided to drop that idea. I wanted to visit the KS03 in Rottweil, but could not not schedule it right.

OK, need to answer your question. Firstly, if you want to sell your dogs, then you better have them titled in Germany. There are people in Mexico, Brazil, Korea, etc..who are willing to pay US$60,000 for K'Sg/B'Sg. You must think it is crazy, but hopefully you now understand why there is so many foreign breeders who are willing to travel thousand of km to show their dogs.

The other reason is there are now very strict German laws concerning keeping and breeding Rottweilers, and so it is becoming a legalistic issue for the hobbyist type breeder. Over the last few years, there are also very serious allegation of politics in the show ring. I am sure you understand, as I believe it happen locally as well. There are dogs who are own by judges or "officials" of clubs, and they get to win the title because of "manipulation". Here we call "Kelong" lah! Therefore, the famous German kennels just breed and the demand from America or other European countries will book all the puppies ahead of time. It is like the small breeder will not bother unless they have an outstanding dog, and the big kennels do not bother also unless they have outstanding dogs. But foreigners will come because they really have no choice, even though they know that it is almost impossible for them to win in the German circuit.

I think there is so much German club shows, and so the German breeder will just breed sufficiently for the domestic market. There are laws there that will not allow you to "dump" your dogs so to speak. I think they focus more on the Korung which is also dying...strange outcome in German. I am begining to wonder whether the money politics or the legislation is "killing" the enthusiaism in Germany.

Size? I assume you are refering to large standard like 26 inches? Well, look at the studs that are used for the last two years! Balou is large and so are his kids. I believe Donner is also large as well. Mambo v Crossener Ranch is smaller and so are his kids (watch their ears), Vico, Bruno, Fax, is also large. So as the saying goes, like father like son.

OK, hope my humble opinion helps!


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Oct 9, 2003, 9:22 PM


Views: 3492
Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers

Hi Chilimson,

Yup ! everything boils down to $$$$$, but still I'm surprised to see so many Balkan states dogs/breeder in this recent KS , coz if I'm not mistaken this year is the 1st time they only allowed non-docked Rott to participate rite ? ? Well even the winner for the best breeder is foreign. Shocked ! !

I have nothing against non-German winners but like U mentioned the emphasis on Korung is getting lesser, & now U have foreign dogs participating & winning, sooner or later U end up with the genepool getting "softer" with breeding focusing now more on show wining quality ....Unimpressed , I hope Rott will not go the way of GSD . . !

BTW maybe there is still hope, If I m not mistaken the President of ADRK (is the breeder of v shambl kennel, rite) I thk he still infuse his breeding stock wt working bloodline, just look at Ambassador , nice structure & from wht I read also good working drv, and also large (which I dun really mind .. Wink !), I thk that he got it from Balou as U have mentioned , but anyway his dam was large as well !

Talking of size, the last time I read of Mambo , they say he has matured to a medium large size of 65cm ...which is the ideal height ! Smile , but still what caught my eye is his headpiece, Tongue ..! !

And also the recent 2003 KS size, (forgot his name ? ? Crazy) , well he is also abt the medium large size, so I believe ADRK is concerned & is taking steps to address the oversize problem but like U say ealier , when the demand from public is for bigger size ...it will all boils down to $$$$$, well personally if they can maintained / preserve the temperament, I dun thk is a major concern but w/o Korung (which is tested on a neutral ground) I thk it will be a bit hard esp wt the countries outside Germany since they r also now major entrees in the annual KS ! !






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


wcleong
Novice


Oct 10, 2003, 1:18 AM


Views: 3486
Re: [chilimson] Rottweilers

Hi chilimson, regarding his topline and back it is one of the best because he can really post nicely, furthermore he once won best puppy in breed before he was sold to me. The reason previous owner sold the dog because when he was 9 months old his look is not that outstanding compare to his littermate. But as we know we can't really judge a male rottweiler during 9 months olds because it is still growing during that time. Furthermore the breeder is good friend of mine.


chilimson
Member

Oct 10, 2003, 4:57 AM


Views: 3481
Re: [Polluxx] Rottweilers

Hi Polluxx,

Mambo headpiece is really unique, but possible having small ear which are highly set or fly ear. The latest KS is Cujo I think, and is a Rick son and Doc grandson. Doc is small compared to Balou, and so some of Rick kids are small. HOwever, Rick's daugther could be very beautiful with a nice headpiece. There are still many kennels in Germany who are focusing on working line. You are right about A. Shambala, a Balou son. Actually, I think Balou does throw excellent headpiece to his kids.


chilimson
Member

Oct 10, 2003, 5:04 AM


Views: 3479
Re: [wcleong] Rottweilers

OK, sorry. I had mistaken the avatar for your dog, but I think you had posted Bronko as your Avatar. The Rottie at 9 months still have plenty of growth to do, and so not to worry about it. Still I will advise you to build him up slowly before you push him or take him for serious exercise or long run. Give him the supplement if you could because I think it will help. Since the breeder is a good friend of yours, then it is great in terms of trust. However, there is nothing he could do about the genetic portion, so taking all the environmental precaution will hopefully help.


qme465
Member


Oct 18, 2003, 5:10 PM


Views: 3457
Re: [neurotoxicz] Rottweilers

neurotoxicz,

are u from east malaysia?...s'wak or sabah?...BTW im from miri s'wak...i hv a rottie too...hope u in miri..so that i can see ur granduncle dog...