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Local Schutzhund Trial



boon
Doggyman


Dec 27, 2003, 8:56 AM


Views: 31952
Local Schutzhund Trial
Calling all working dog kakis,

When do you think we, Malaysian can have our very own SchH trial in Malaysia ? 2004 should be a good year to start on......so for those who are about to or interested in this field, do drop us a like and share your thoughts with us.

Looking forward to title your working dogs locally ? Come together and lets make this happened.Wink

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Dec 27, 2003, 9:21 AM


Views: 31944
Re: [boon] Local Schutzhund Trial
Hi,Smile

Just wondering...to title them, we need to form a club first right? or can we just invite a judge representative of a another country's club to get them titled?

Hmm..not sure can mention this in here...

But there are some talks abt it by some interested parties..how's that coming along?
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)



Ludoc
Novice


Jan 13, 2004, 8:07 AM


Views: 31890
Re: [boon] Local Schutzhund Trial
I have in mind a 'friendly' competition in Iskandar Polo Club Ipoh for a start, to get the ball rolling and to get interested people to gather together to chart our further path. MKA GSD chapter has shot down my proposal to form a Schutzhund club last year. So far I know of interested parties from Perlis, Penang, KL to Johor Baru and Ipoh should be a good central point to meet. The other practical reason is to obviate the need to apply for a public liscense, it being a private ground and participation is' by invitation' only. The venue I have in mind is very scenic and tranquil and is big enough for even a world Schutzhund event and cost is minimal. What say you. all you itching-to-be schutzhund kakis out there?Email me for an opinion poll:voonsan@netscape.net


Ludoc
Novice


Jan 13, 2004, 8:16 AM


Views: 31888
Re: [RealityDreamer] Local Schutzhund Trial
I tried but there was some resistance from some quarters in an organization. It is not difficult to invite a qualified judge from Germany but for official titling, there needs to be an invitation from an affiliated local club. That is the sticky part. Maybe we should put our heads together and find a solution or lobby harder! I think the ground swell is getting bigger for the organization to ignore our voice, what with puppy.com organizing more meaningful and successful K9 events!. It has to issue warning letters to members not to take part in "unsanctioned" events!


boon
Doggyman


Jan 13, 2004, 8:19 AM


Views: 31888
Re: [Ludoc] Local Schutzhund Trial
Hi Dr Loo,

Nice to have u here with us......finally you're in....lol....Wink

Welcome aboard....shall gather more schh kakis and kick off our own trial this year....

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


boon
Doggyman


Jan 13, 2004, 8:25 AM


Views: 31887
Re: [Ludoc] Local Schutzhund Trial
Hi,

I doubt that the local woof woof organization can do anything about their members attending events that is not sanctioned by them.

From their last memo to all members stated very clearly like this 'members are not encouranging to attend any unsanctioned event' BUT they didn't write something like 'members are NOT ALLOW to attend any unsanctioned event......'

Further more, no signature at the bottom of the memo....and am doubt that anyone of those woof woof fellow dare to put their name down there, 'from the committee members'

Anyway this is what i see and IMHO :)

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


Kowpa
Member

Jan 13, 2004, 9:06 AM


Views: 31885
Re: [boon] Local Schutzhund Trial
In Reply To
Hi,

I doubt that the local woof woof organization can do anything about their members attending events that is not sanctioned by them.

From their last memo to all members stated very clearly like this 'members are not encouranging to attend any unsanctioned event' BUT they didn't write something like 'members are NOT ALLOW to attend any unsanctioned event......'

Further more, no signature at the bottom of the memo....and am doubt that anyone of those woof woof fellow dare to put their name down there, 'from the committee members'

Anyway this is what i see and IMHO :)

If they put their signature down they are just like entering into a tiger's den LOL

I strongly disagreed with the memo by MKA to all MkA's members the reasons are

1 demo schutzhund or obed u need a well train dogs. Now if these dogs are trained under MKA or purchased by MKA I feel is not right to participate in others organization event, what if is not I feel Mka has no right to stop members from participating such events. We buy and train dogs for the love of the sport and not for putting them under the blankets


boon
Doggyman


Jan 13, 2004, 9:19 AM


Views: 31882
Re: [Kowpa] Local Schutzhund Trial
Hi Kowpa,

The only think i can think of y they so against this SchH and OB demo in puppycom events are becoz one or all of the following :-
  • the rejected and shooting blanks GSD that owned by the tai kor there are capable of taking GUNTEST without pee all over its handler's pants ? Can the 6 digits worth dog produce ?
  • Can their dogs do SchH ? if can't then this make sense at least to me y they're so against SchH and others thing that the shooting blanks can't do.
  • Can their dogs walk/run 15/20KM ? yes but at the end of the trek, come back with the dead dog or 'Hippy' GSD
  • can their washout doing OB ? the answer is YES, don blame the dog, but the owner and the handler,......but bare in mind that where on earth they can get the good/experience/knowledgable OB trainer in their group ? is there any ? i'm not sure, if yes do correct me, but one thing for sure, i know they have one trainer that always do this 'Heel Heel Hell, Goto Hell' no correction, simply pull, pop correct, choke the dog.


Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


Kowpa
Member

Jan 13, 2004, 10:16 AM


Views: 31881
Re: [boon] Local Schutzhund Trial
In Reply To
Hi Kowpa,

The only think i can think of y they so against this SchH and OB demo in puppycom events are becoz one or all of the following :-
  • the rejected and shooting blanks GSD that owned by the tai kor there are capable of taking GUNTEST without pee all over its handler's pants ? Can the 6 digits worth dog produce ? ________________________________________________________________


No need gun just balloon will do. Yes they will produce a peeing when the burst of the balloon,

______________________________________________________________________
  • Can their dogs do SchH ? if can't then this make sense at least to me y they're so against SchH and others thing that the shooting blanks can't do.


______________________________________________________________________

Their dogs can do sch thats printed in their papers such as SCh3 IPO3 etc in print for your info IN PRINT not action

_______________________________________________________________________
  • Can their dogs walk/run 15/20KM ? yes but at the end of the trek, come back with the dead dog or 'Hippy' GSD


__________________________________________________________________________

Run on trek mill machine

_________________________________________________________________________
  • can their washout doing OB ? the answer is YES, don blame the dog, but the owner and the handler,......but bare in mind that where on earth they can get the good/experience/knowledgable OB trainer in their group ? is there any ? i'm not sure, if yes do correct me, but one thing for sure, i know they have one trainer that always do this 'Heel Heel Hell, Goto Hell' no correction, simply pull, pop correct, choke the dog
  • _____________________________________________________________________Yes they do have monkey sees monkey do trainers Seeing the tip of an iceberg they say they have seen an iceberg


PSD
ALPHA


Jan 13, 2004, 6:25 PM


Views: 31876
Re: [boon,Ludoc,Kowpa and all] Local Schutzhund Trial
Guys,

Really a fiesty morning eh? This is the type of spirit we need for SchH to see it happen. I do believe Malaysia can do it and do it well. The most important is to have the people that are committed and loves the sport enough to make it happen. Not for ego, self gain and positions. I know this is much easier said than done but right now I think we can value one another to really see who we are.

About the as father of all wrong doings is something I think we may want to reconsider. Yes we had problems, we have weaknesses, SchH was thrown out of their GSD chapter before and many more. However we must remember what we set to do here and align our sights to start SchH and not to lobby against MKA. This struggle is not about personal feelings, not about bruised ego and definately not about who wins and who lose. This struggle is to bring understand and promotion on how wonderful to see man and his dog in action together.

Many things have happened in Malaysia as well as in the world today. Show and working always draws the line everywhere. It is not for anyone to say if show is any better than working or vice versa. just remember the facts that we are dealing here. Shows are for show rings to look beautiful. Work is for dogs to show its athletism and spirit to complete the trial. This is the essense. There is not a need for anyone to condemn any sides. I'd say let the show continue run but let SchH grow too. Co-existence is the idea and a real possibility. There is not a need to fight this meaningless war.

SchH should be started as itself for now. Clubs should be allowed and acknowledged in different locations as life nodes. Inter clubs trials is to be done regularly to sharpen the skills. All this would be best to be placed under the umbrella of MKA. We must try this way first and like mentioned by LUDOC, things change and perhaps MKA may want to consider its past decision a change too. We may never know unless we try again. Otherwise, SchH spirit is soaring now. More and more people are aware of SchH and willing to make it happen one way or another. If this time it is proven again that MKA refuses to see the obvious, then we will bring it to the people that can see clearer whomever it may be. Let us come together not as any opposition party, but promoters of the sport.

What say u guys? We need more participation here...... from fresh people too. Sherman, Prodog, Chloe, Azman, Polluxx, kaerb, .....just to mention a few. please come over and express your view. if this is going to happen, u r all the pillars.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


boon
Doggyman


Jan 13, 2004, 6:46 PM


Views: 31872
Re: [PSD] Local Schutzhund Trial
Hi PSD San,

Ohiyo....well said, yeah agreed, sometime people tend to get too emotional when this 'Monster' is in the pic. They should have carefully rethink of their club image.

But a growing pup under the care of the Monster is not a good idea IMHO.

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --

(This post was edited by boon on Jan 13, 2004, 7:33 PM)


MalsInOz
Novice


Jan 13, 2004, 6:58 PM


Views: 31871
Re: [PSD] Local Schutzhund Trial
Hello all,

Sorry i have been very busy training over the past month - we have had Mr Lance Collins ((Canada) former #4 WUSV World Championship with a dog bred trained and handled by himself) here in Brisbane for the past month so we have been training very hard!Smile

Very well said PSD - it is very hard when you can see bad things happening, but please try not to cause problems with MKA - you will need to negotiate with them in future.Wink

Is MKA a member of FCI? Do you have a National GSD Club that is a member of WUSV?

Here in Australia we have to use non-SV judges as the GSDCA (who is a member of WUSV) will not allow them to judge Schutzhund in our country! We have had many very good international judges from USA, Europe & Canada.

I think first you need get some clubs organised and build a membership and training base, then form your own "umbrella" organisation for your clubs, then use the "umbrella" organisation to approach MKA or similar. It is a long hard road, but if your priority is training dogs for the sport then it really doesn't matter. Just always remember that the whole sport in your country will be judged on how you present it at all levels.

I am happy to pass on your contact details to the board of AUSC (Australian United Sportdog Clubs) - they will have much more experience with this than myself.

Regards,

MalsInOz


Ludoc
Novice


Jan 13, 2004, 7:54 PM


Views: 31863
Re: [PSD] Local Schutzhund Trial
When I said to lobbu harder, I meant to lobby the GSD chapter of MKA. The main resistance encountered was fro the Obedience people who raked in a lot of money for the parent organization and wanted Schutzhund to be under its control . There are no other GSD clubs and I fear no other will be allowed to be registered. MKA is affiliated to FCI and that is why I thought the-GSD Chapter is the best platform for us to start. There is another alternative, form a club and seek affliation to DVG Club in Germany. I was told Schutzhund is going the way of IPO. Anybody has any idea on what is happening? Another thing I would like to do is to organize a one week course to train schH helpers. I met one Robby (I forget his last name) in Bangkok some time ago who said he was willing to conduct the course if we can get a group of 12 people. We only have to pay for his airfare and accomadation and meals. It will be one week full time. Any takers?. From here we can go onto organizing training seminars and workshop etc and one day, maybe even bring over Bernhard Flink, who is the 'hero' of so many of us all (thanks to Leerburg vide0s!) Singapore and Thailand has got schH well running, we cannot afford to be still sitting back and talking!. Time to act, albeit not in the most ideal way. We have to go through teething problems and enlist foreign help to start. I am willing to host a gathering of all enthusiast in Ipoh as I have mentioned. Nothing official but a kick start in the pointed direction!


boon
Doggyman


Jan 13, 2004, 8:43 PM


Views: 31858
Re: [Ludoc] Local Schutzhund Trial
Hi,

If i'm not mistaken, MKA relationship with FCI is affiliated via AKU not direct affiliation.

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


Kowpa
Member

Jan 13, 2004, 9:03 PM


Views: 31857
Re: [Ludoc] Local Schutzhund Trial
Please make it happened this time. We can have Robby or Thong over here. Especially Thong he is willing to help us all the while as u know it very well. the poor thing is that one of our friend in our group passed away too fast If not we are all the way ahead. We can die but schutzhund can never die so let gether and make it happened again My hats off to all of u in this thread, we are going to be special and united LIke schutzhund people in Germany. Australia can do it their way y not us Schutzhund people boleh. Forget what people says Think of schutzhund in action and we are happy all the way. Just like Puppy.com do what they can for the love of the dogs and the dog's sport For the love of schutzhund come on lets get start and forget what have to people say.


PSD
ALPHA


Jan 13, 2004, 10:28 PM


Views: 31849
Re: [MalsInOz] Local Schutzhund Trial
Evan,

I'm happy and must say I'm thrilled you are still around. I had thought that we have lost you due to the long absense since your last post. Your words of encouragement is diamonds to my eyes.

I'm well aware that it would be better to co-exist and grows from there. Maybe this is why I look at things differently. Nevertheless we must plan to stick SchH on the ground one way or another. You sounded a very practical approach to me about the umbrella body. This just gives me another practical idea. i will have to discuss with some people first to see how we handle this. Thanks.

Remember to let me know the dates of your trials and if you have any prominent seminars or courses in your area. We may be interested. Do let us know. Hope we can meet up one day and talk about nothing but dogs...Smile

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


PSD
ALPHA


Jan 13, 2004, 10:38 PM


Views: 31847
Re: [Ludoc] Local Schutzhund Trial
Ludoc,

Yes I understand you perfectly. Perhaps we should not discuss it too details here for some sensitivities it may brings. I have some plans and ideas but let us think about it a bit more and refine the approach. Will bring it up to you seperately.

About Robby, I'm in. 12 is not difficult from here. My end should have 3-4 ready. Just let me know when. As far as I'm concerned u can go ahead and bring him in. We will support you all the way.

About Berhard Flinks and world class training......lets have more world class dogs here first. Otherwise we may be rubbing shit right in our own face....WinkBlush

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


boon
Doggyman


Jan 13, 2004, 11:52 PM


Views: 31839
Re: [PSD] Local Schutzhund Trial
In Reply To
lets have more world class dogs here first. Otherwise we may be rubbing shit right in our own face
Good question and at the same time superb way of expressing the situation locally here in Malaysia. Where on earth for average people like us can afford to have a genetically correct and sound dog ? Any one ? any good breeding program on .....

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --

(This post was edited by boon on Jan 14, 2004, 12:31 AM)


Ludoc
Novice


Jan 13, 2004, 11:52 PM


Views: 31839
Re: [MalsInOz] Local Schutzhund Trial
Is your AUSG affiliated to DVG Germany? DVG judges are also qualified to award Schutzhund and IPO titles, not only SV. Do you have any info on the 'merging' of standards between Schutzhund and IPO. I heard they are trying to unify the training standards and if so it will be a good thing. Perhaps you can share with us your experience in forming the AUSV. I'm sure there are many lessons we can learn from you!


Ludoc
Novice


Jan 14, 2004, 12:12 AM


Views: 31834
Re: [boon] Local Schutzhund Trial
Let not those who cannot afford a 'world class' og despair!On one of the spectrum there are those who want to excel and go on to world competition. On the other end, most people just want a well trained PP dog and any puppy with correct drive and upbringing and education can be trained to be such. I am always amazed at people who can recite the dog's pedigree thrown back to decades! Mate Mike Tyson to ten female wrestlers and you do not get all boxing or wrestling off-springs. Genetics is not a pure sum game. That is the beauty of breeding: there is always an element of chance. When we are learning, we should not be afraid to shame ourselves! If we have trainers as good as Bernhard, we do not need him! Please take no offense! It is just personal opinion!


MalsInOz
Novice


Jan 14, 2004, 12:24 AM


Views: 31832
Re: [Ludoc] Local Schutzhund Trial
AUSC is not affiliated with any international body and this is part of the problem we have right now. From what I know, in our case DVG judge requires OK from National Kennel Club ANKC so we have trouble there as well. Most of our judges come from United Schutzhund Clubs of America (USA) and other judges that are not directly registered by WUSV.

SchH & IPO rules are basically exactly the same from start of 2004 but still different names. This gives VDH room to move if they don't like future changes to IPO that the FCI may make.

Major changes:

SchH 1
- no on-leash heeling
- attack on handler replaced by Escape
- Retrieve over A-Frame added

SchH 2
- no on-leash heeling
- walking motion stand

SchH 3
- no walking motion stand(just running)

I think this is all, I'll check and get back on later.

Great to see dedicated people passionate about this great dogsport!!Smile

Regards,

MalsInOz


boon
Doggyman


Jan 14, 2004, 12:38 AM


Views: 31831
Re: [Ludoc] Local Schutzhund Trial
Hi Ludoc,

In Reply To


Mate Mike Tyson to ten female wrestlers and you do not get all boxing or wrestling off-springs. Genetics is not a pure sum game.

Fully agreed with you and i totally understand the concept of putting a doctor father and doctor mother together will not guarantee you a doctor son/daughter. But the % of this is higher than an average couple. Genetics/Pedigree doesn't mean much when come to talk about whether the dog can perform or not. But not to forget also these are the building blocks for the finish product.

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


PSD
ALPHA


Jan 14, 2004, 12:49 AM


Views: 31831
Re: [Ludoc] Local Schutzhund Trial
Quote
Let not those who cannot afford a 'world class' og despair!On one of the spectrum there are those who want to excel and go on to world competition. On the other end, most people just want a well trained PP dog and any puppy with correct drive and upbringing and education can be trained to be such. I am always amazed at people who can recite the dog's pedigree thrown back to decades! Mate Mike Tyson to ten female wrestlers and you do not get all boxing or wrestling off-springs. Genetics is not a pure sum game. That is the beauty of breeding: there is always an element of chance. When we are learning, we should not be afraid to shame ourselves! If we have trainers as good as Bernhard, we do not need him! Please take no offense! It is just personal opinion!

Well said. In any case world class dogs with lousy handlers become shit dogs anyway. What we need are reasonable dog and learn and sharpen our skills. The bigger issue here is people who spend tens of thousands and get the rejects is a real heart pain. This can be prevented with more knowledge before going on a buying spree. Breeding programe is never easy. To get the right dog with the right magic combination is something of luck of an educated guess. This is why good dogs that have the drives are not cheap and real breeders are not money spinners period. Buy a dog on its own merit and not pedigree. In a litter, not every dog are top loaders. Pedigree reading people is like wine connoisuer. It is an art of guessing....some people does good some people smells dust. End of the day "Show me the dog"

Actually, when I mentioned not to put shit in our own face, I meant it in a way that we should have active people having the right dog and better equipped to receive what he can give us. No point asking a whole classroom of kindy boys and girls to listen to a geneticist expounding theory of relativity. This is my opinion. I do agree Bernhard is good also thanks to american superior publicity that made him into a hero like personality today. We can definately benefit from more international class trainers whoever they are.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Jan 14, 2004, 2:55 AM


Views: 31820
Re: [Ludoc] Local Schutzhund Trial
Hello,Smile

Hv been MIA for only a few days and look what happened! As for Bobby,when is it?I would love to join but I'm still studying so I might have problems.

Also,when is the SchH "trial" in Ipoh? Some of us were actually planning a trip up there to hv a look at Micheal's kennel.
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)



RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Jan 14, 2004, 2:59 AM


Views: 31819
Re: [boon] Local Schutzhund Trial
LOL Laugh

very good points.
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)



RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Jan 14, 2004, 3:01 AM


Views: 21599
Re: [PSD] Local Schutzhund Trial
Hi,Smile

Well said.

I'm in.
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)



Polluxx
Enthusiast


Jan 14, 2004, 8:52 AM


Views: 21588
Re: [Ludoc] Local Schutzhund Trial
Hi All,

...At last it looks like there is a some glimmer of hope to get ScH off the ground here in M'sia...! !

Well Dr Loo (Ludoc), obviously ur idea to have a gathering is long overdue...... BTW welcome on board ! !

I do agree wt U , all of us (who r pasionate abt this dogsport) need to put our head together to come up wt something , but as for lobbying harder for support from GSD Chapter . . . I tot they should know better . . . it is for the interest of the breed in the long run ! ! . . . . & $$$ definitely should not be a contention issue here....! . . .I m sure their show dogss have help them to earn enuf money to last them several life times....Mad......pls dun mind my rambling.....just an old man getting something off his chest..... LOL....Wink.....! !


Boon,
Who needs "woof woof org" to decide for us wht activities we wanna do wt our own dog . . . .! ! ..... WOOF-WOOF...Smile

Now if we have go to DVG / SV direct....then we should go ahead without further delay....!



Ludoc,
Quote -------------------------------------------------------
Let not those who cannot afford a 'world class' og despair!On one of the spectrum there are those who want to excel and go on to world competition. On the other end, most people just want a well trained PP dog and any puppy with correct drive and upbringing and education can be trained to be such.
---------------------------------------------------------------
As far as I know, majority of us here are in the middle of the spectrum, we want to start off wt a good workingline pup/dog...and of course it should not cost a fortune .......Wink.....therefore if we do really start up a club, for starter we definitely need ;
a.) Good workingline stocks avail to us
b.) Good helpers to go around the country. .
c.) Regular seminars to improve our training technique......



BTW.....
Quote-----------------------------------------------
On the other end, most people just want a well trained PP dog and any puppy with correct drive and upbringing and education can be trained to be such
----------------------------------------------------------
Even though I do agree wt U wt the above, I would like to point out getting "puppy wt the correct drive" is not as easy as it seems b'coz what we want ultimately is a dog wt balance drv but also dog wt nerve of steel .... so whether being a PP or a sportdog, they are expected to be highly driven yet stable dog. And that I know can only be found from proven workingline stock..........Wink


Anyway back to your suggestion for a gathering , I would further like to suggest that there should be support for Regional/State ScH Club around the country so that it is easier for members to carry out regular ScH training/activities wt their K9 partners near their place .....!!






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


boon
Doggyman


Jan 14, 2004, 4:23 PM


Views: 21582
Re: [Polluxx] Local Schutzhund Trial
Hi Poll,

Finally u r back here with us....where have u been.....MIA for such a long time....

In Reply To
Boon,
Who needs "woof woof org" to decide for us wht activities we wanna do wt our own dog . . . .! ! ..... WOOF-WOOF...Smile

Now if we have go to DVG / SV direct....then we should go ahead without further delay....!



Buddy, stay cool, stay calm and stay tuned............and most important is stay focus. Focus on what we want and our goal.Wink

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


mhazman
Member

Jan 14, 2004, 8:15 PM


Views: 21576
Re: [Ludoc] Local Schutzhund Trial
Hi Ludoc,
I am sure there's more than enough ppl from KL & Penang whose interested. You can go ahead while the iron is hot.

Boon,
U can start counting now....

cheers

Azman


PSD
ALPHA


Jan 14, 2004, 9:20 PM


Views: 21573
Re: [Polluxx] Local Schutzhund Trial
Poll, u have dissapeared long enough. Laugh

Quote
I do agree wt U , all of us (who r pasionate abt this dogsport) need to put our head together to come up wt something , but as for lobbying harder for support from GSD Chapter . . . I tot they should know better . . . it is for the interest of the breed in the long run ! ! . . . . & $$$ definitely should not be a contention issue here....! . . .I m sure their show dogss have help them to earn enuf money to last them several life times....Mad......pls dun mind my rambling.....just an old man getting something off his chest..... LOL....Wink.....! !

I think we should know by now or at least be told now that this is never a battle between show and working dogs in Malaysia. SCHH merits an interest of its own. To fight over this small unimportant issue is lacking foresight. In the end everyone has their own choice if they like the looks best or the ability best. We have made our own options so I think it is right and constitutional for others to decide for themselves. Earning money or not is secondary and really none of our businessSmile As long as there are interested buyers willing to pay the price, the market is big enough.

Although I am a one breed man myself...lol I felt that we should look at SCHH in a more far sighted manner. Eventhough SchH was originally started specifically for GSD, many other dogs like Mals, Dobe, Rotts, Labs just to name a few can be trained in this sport. Eventually SCHH club should accept dogs other than GSD as long the dog has what it takes. It is such that I personally felt SchH club setup should fall directly under MKA as a seperate chapter and not breed specific chapters for this reason.

GSD chapter can continue business as usual without the need for any changes that is too uncomfortable for now. This way everyone happy.Laugh

Quote
Boon,
Who needs "woof woof org" to decide for us wht activities we wanna do wt our own dog . . . .! ! ..... WOOF-WOOF...Smile

Now if we have go to DVG / SV direct....then we should go ahead without further delay....!



We are going without delay, the idea is to keep things not so complicated. We will still look up to MKA for amicable solution. The needs is to start SCHH recognition. At this moment, and the world development MKA would have to keep itself updated by acknowledging SchH. UK had recognised this sport. MKA should have no problem with this now. Otherwise we will continue with any other alternative. ScHH will start for sure as long as u guys continue to strengthen the pillars.

Quote


As far as I know, majority of us here are in the middle of the spectrum, we want to start off wt a good workingline pup/dog...and of course it should not cost a fortune .......Wink.....therefore if we do really start up a club, for starter we definitely need ;
a.) Good workingline stocks avail to us
b.) Good helpers to go around the country. .
c.) Regular seminars to improve our training technique......

Agreed with you. Dont think you have to worry about that. All will become natural progression once we have the club formalised. U just continue to gather people in your area to have your own club.

Quote


Even though I do agree wt U wt the above, I would like to point out getting "puppy wt the correct drive" is not as easy as it seems b'coz what we want ultimately is a dog wt balance drv but also dog wt nerve of steel .... so whether being a PP or a sportdog, they are expected to be highly driven yet stable dog. And that I know can only be found from proven workingline stock..........Wink

Agreed with you too. Working dogs must get from working stock. Show dogs must get from show stock. After all these are what they are specifically bread for. Occassionally you may luckily chance on a kickass dog that can do both the work and show. SchH club will accept all that has the ability to be trained. Dr. loo has one BH ready show dog trained in SchH disciplined I believe. Most important, show is show, work is work. Nothing related so we better accept and co-exist.Smile



Quote


Anyway back to your suggestion for a gathering , I would further like to suggest that there should be support for Regional/State ScH Club around the country so that it is easier for members to carry out regular ScH training/activities wt their K9 partners near their place .....!!

This is good suggestion and for sure will be taken as a highlight. After all the success of producing top level SchH dog made in Malaysia must be sustained by top level club dogs continuing challenging each other for better performance. Keep it up and keep active. Hopefully we will be asking for membership support soon. keep the fingers crossed. SchH needs everyone of you.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)

(This post was edited by PSD on Jan 14, 2004, 9:30 PM)


Ludoc
Novice


Jan 14, 2004, 10:21 PM


Views: 21572
Re: [mhazman] Local Schutzhund Trial
In Reply To
Hi Ludoc,
I am sure there's more than enough ppl from KL & Penang whose interested. You can go ahead while the iron is hot.

Sure! I am actively looking into it! Tha's my mission!

Boon,
U can start counting now....

cheers

Azman
In Reply To


Ludoc
Novice


Jan 14, 2004, 11:19 PM


Views: 21565
Re: [PSD] Local Schutzhund Trial
Now I understand why you were described as 'sensible'! Perhaps I would like to put things in perspective, for the benefit of all: Schutzhund is not about show dog vs working dog. One should not condemn show gsd although they have their own problems after spending decades trying to breed one 'standard type' (this is reminescent of Hitler's master race ideal!) We must not condemn another person's dog no matter how much we dislike that person. Otherwise we cannot call ourselves dog lovers. You are right, I have both show dog and working dog. The 'beauty', Forro sired by Kevin v Murttal, VA,was purchased from Kirschental Kennel in Germany, BH trained and 14 months old (Germany has since changed the regulation, youngest for BH is 15 months). He was ball crazy and I thought he has very high drive (until I worked with Rokko, of pure working line. Working people like to talk of 3 levels of drives: normal, high, and 'super' drive. I will now say he has 'high' drive. Nevertheless, training him for protection was fun and not difficult and he is now ready for sch1 protection. Initially I had the problem of 'out' and looked every where for help,even Ed Fawley of Leeburg. After having gone through the training, I realised it is the least of the problem! Getting the dog to hold on to prey is more important. Rokko, on the other hand has super drive: he flies to 'Hier!' and has a bark-hold that will make an inexperience 'helper' tremble! That brings me to the points I am trying to make
1) It is not "us against them". It is just different. You can have 'show' dogs with high drive. You can also get working dogs with NO drive (yes, I have seen. Just because they are grey or sable or black does not mean they are 'working' stock!)2.) Dog training is not rocket science. It takes dedication, patience , common sense and team work.3) the fastest way to get into action is get a BH trained dog of 18 months or two years. They are well socialised, obedience trained and what you see is what you get; never mind if it is from show or working line. Many people want hard dog but do not have the time nor energy to keep the dog working-occupied and the end result is a so called 'dangerous dog' that nobody wants. 4.) Enough of arm-chair training (it is certainly fun participating in Forums like this!), get down and get wet (with your sweat)! I'll fix a date for a gathering and will extend an invitation to all who are interested!


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Jan 15, 2004, 4:28 AM


Views: 21554
Re: [Ludoc,PSD] Local Schutzhund Trial
Hi Ludoc & PSD,

Well looks like my previous post has coz some misunderstanding here...! Unsure

To set the record straigth, this is definitely not abt show vs working, tht is not my intention, I was merely highligthing that the chapter was supposed to be looking after the interest of the breed ....not just on the beauty side of thing but oso to take the initiative or interest in trying to preserve the working drv (& stability of nerve) in the breed.....before all is lost beyond us......!!

Anyway I believe Schutzhund is & should be open to all breeds & even mutts regardless of show or workingline ....... hopefully this will clear up the misunderstanding caused ....!! Wink


Anyway Ludoc is rite , "Enough of arm-chair training, it is time to get all sweaty & dirty ! ! " Tongue . . . . .


So to all puppycom's working folks .......
"All we have to do is to decide what to do with Time & Opportunity that Has been given to us....."






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


PSD
ALPHA


Jan 15, 2004, 7:46 PM


Views: 21537
Re: [Ludoc] Local Schutzhund Trial
Ludoc,

Quote


Now I understand why you were described as 'sensible'!

Me ah? Eh no lah, Sometimes I can become very insensible too Smile. Dreaming of becoming Rambo sometimes is an interesting fantasy.........though in the end still have to come back to reality. Reality today if start SchH so I can start sweating with my fellow brothers ans sisters here.....this is a true reality.....the rest are not so important.Smile

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


PSD
ALPHA


Jan 15, 2004, 7:48 PM


Views: 21537
Re: [Polluxx] Local Schutzhund Trial
Poll, dont worry. We got you. U just must come in more often and keep the spirit alive.Wink

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


boon
Doggyman


Jan 27, 2004, 8:03 AM


Views: 21492
Re: [PSD] Local Schutzhund Trial
Where is this ah eng ah ? hardly see him online now......

Paging for Eng aka Polluxx, pls 'float' up............

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


FredAl
Novice

Jan 27, 2004, 5:55 PM


Views: 21486
Re: [boon] Local Schutzhund Trial
Hello, Malaysian SchH fanciers! Mr. Al told me about this Forum and I'm glad I visited it.

Dr. Loo, I replied to your email (twice) but my replies were "undeliverable". I tried to IM you also but I got an error message. Being new here, I'm not too familiar with the system yet and can't send IMs.

Nice to see more people in Malaysia are getting interested in SchH -- an excellent Breed Suitability Test to identify and develop the working canine traits.
____________________________________
Beauty without vanity, strength without insolence, courage without ferocity, and all the virtues of man without his vices.


boon
Doggyman


Jan 27, 2004, 6:01 PM


Views: 21483
Re: [FredAl] Local Schutzhund Trial
Hi Fred,

Nice to have u here with us, first of all welcome aboard. I got the same error message for undelivered mail return from netscape.net from Dr Loo's account. This is because his mailbox has reach the quota limit.

FYI, the IM of this forum has been disabled by the webmaster years ago. So are you coming over to Malaysia for the seminar or workshop sometime soon ?

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


FredAl
Novice

Jan 27, 2004, 6:11 PM


Views: 21481
Re: [boon] Local Schutzhund Trial
Thanks for the warm welcome, Boon.

I would love to, but we were still arranging the details for that event when our correspondences came to a halt. Thanks to your information, I now understand why.
____________________________________
Beauty without vanity, strength without insolence, courage without ferocity, and all the virtues of man without his vices.


PSD
ALPHA


Jan 27, 2004, 6:54 PM


Views: 21476
Re: [FredAl] Local Schutzhund Trial
Hi Fred,

R u still based in Thailand as at now? I have heard quite a bit about you. If you can send me a mail. Would like to know you better and perhaps we can get some good things going in the sport. Rgds and welcome.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


FredAl
Novice

Jan 27, 2004, 7:30 PM


Views: 21470
Re: [PSD] Local Schutzhund Trial
Hi, PSD. Yes, I am still based in Thailand. I just sent you a short email so we can correspond further to explore the possibilities of developing SchH and the working dogs in Malaysia.

I just read the whole thread and I understand the obstacles you’re running into to get affiliated with FCI. I founded the Philippine Schutzhund Group, Inc. (PSGi) together with Al, and we were faced with the same bureaucratic dilemma from the country’s canine club. I’m being guided by the DVG-America President, Carole Patterson, and FCI Exec. Dir., Y. de Clerq, on these matters. From what they told me, a SchH club should be affiliated with the country’s mother organization that is affiliated with FCI (can’t go under DVG either). You would just have to work with MKA to get your titles recognized by FCI.

Since I am a director and Judge for the Working Dogs Committee of The Kennel Club of Thailand (KCT), I did not have the same problems implementing SchH into our registry.

I’m glad to read that your SchH club will not be restricted to just GSDs. There are other good working breeds that can benefit from this activity.
____________________________________
Beauty without vanity, strength without insolence, courage without ferocity, and all the virtues of man without his vices.

(This post was edited by FredAl on Jan 27, 2004, 7:33 PM)


PSD
ALPHA


Jan 27, 2004, 10:43 PM


Views: 21461
Re: [FredAl] Local Schutzhund Trial
Thanks Fred,

I'l check the mail in a while and reply you seperately. I actually envy what you guys have up in Thailand. We can only hope Malaysia didnt plan to be left further behind. Lets see what we can do to promote this well known and fun sport. I envision one day Malaysia will be able to put up a contingent to participate in "King's Cup" (is that the correct trial name for the annual event in Thailand?) That would be great and perhaps a reciprocal event that Thai's team can feature in Malaysia. I'm sure this can be done with the right enthusiasm and committed people in this field.

We welcome your expertise to this forum.Smile

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


Ludoc
Novice


Feb 3, 2004, 3:20 AM


Views: 21416
Re: [boon] Local Schutzhund Trial
Hi, Boon!

Things are getting hot again after the CNY break. Sorry about my mail box. I deleted many but it is still 'full'. What shall i do?

I met up with Azman and had a very interesting and fruitful discussion. I am still working on the project i am undertaking.


Ludoc
Novice


Feb 3, 2004, 3:24 AM


Views: 21414
Re: [FredAl] Local Schutzhund Trial
Sorry Fred . I shall meil you again for private discussion. PSD,boon and a few othwer guys are committed to getSchutzhund in Malaysia started.


boon
Doggyman


Feb 3, 2004, 7:09 AM


Views: 21409
Re: [Ludoc] Local Schutzhund Trial
Hi Dr Loo,

Yeah after CNY things get moving and hopefully this is a good one.....

about your mailbox, i guess u need to do housekeep or check ur mail regulary. lol................Wink

Oh yeah do u have chance to download the pics taken into your computer yet ?

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


Ludoc
Novice


Feb 8, 2004, 5:58 AM


Views: 21383
Re: [boon] Local Schutzhund Trial
Hi Boon

I thought I mailed you the pictures already in zipped file! If you have not received, I can burn them into a cd for you.

Please make the weekend 14 and 15Feb free for an interesting event in Ipoh. Do your valentine things first and shower your valentine with double dose of romance then ask for the weekend free--for schutzhund!


boon
Doggyman


Feb 8, 2004, 6:57 AM


Views: 21381
Re: [Ludoc] Local Schutzhund Trial
Hi Dr Loo,

Let me ask my the other party first, i will let u know, sure should keep the wekend free for very important guest. Wink

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


qstee
Novice


Sep 11, 2004, 5:49 PM


Views: 17797
Re: [Ludoc] Local Schutzhund Trial
Hi there everyone, im new in here. u guys seems to be GSD experts. i would like to know more about GSD because im planning to get one. Is there a lot of procedure involve in impoting a dog from europe? and roughly how much will it cost?
Im actually studying in melbourne now, does the GSD in melbourne has a good bloodline?


RealityDreamer
Doggyman


Sep 21, 2004, 9:33 AM


Views: 17477
Re: [qstee,PSD] Local Schutzhund Trial
Hi,

Maybe you could post this in the pastoral or woking group regarding GSD's....or contact PSD Wink
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)



qstee
Novice


Sep 21, 2004, 2:58 PM


Views: 17474
Re: [RealityDreamer] Local Schutzhund Trial
ok, thanks!


PSD
ALPHA


Sep 28, 2004, 6:26 PM


Views: 19914
Re: [qstee] Local Schutzhund Trial
In Reply To
Hi there everyone, im new in here. u guys seems to be GSD experts. i would like to know more about GSD because im planning to get one. Is there a lot of procedure involve in impoting a dog from europe? and roughly how much will it cost?
Im actually studying in melbourne now, does the GSD in melbourne has a good bloodline?

Thanks Chloe.Smile

qstee,

Importing has its risks if you do not know the breeder well. Might end up with alot of problems and unstable dogs is not unknown of. It is a choice and risk one has to take. Malaysia do have some good dogs around already and u just need to find them.

I had known of some melbourne breeders whom have good working dogs and I had also heard of some of the unscroupulous ones. I personally deals with another breeder not in Melbourne and so far he knows what I want in a GSD so the relationship and trust is good.

I assumed that you got into this thread because of your interest in working GSD rite? not the show ones Tongue

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


qstee
Novice


Sep 28, 2004, 6:32 PM


Views: 19910
Re: [PSD] Local Schutzhund Trial
Hey PSD. been to waiting for your reply quite awhile. i thought u dont log in the forum anymore. hell yeah man, im interested in working GSD. According to some of the trainer here in melbourne. they say shutzhund is ban in aus cause is dangerous. is that true? they say that the trainer usually abuse the dog. Im really quite confuse now. cause i see one of the trainer's GSD is a show line but i see his doing fine maybe i dont know how to differentiate what is good and bad.

I wanted to do more research on this dog before getting it because i know they are full of potential. so i dont want to ruined them in my hand. anyway thanks for replying the forumSly


PSD
ALPHA


Sep 28, 2004, 7:41 PM


Views: 19902
Re: [qstee] Local Schutzhund Trial
qstee,



Hahahahaha.....actually its true that I seldom log on nowadays. Had been busy and a bit dissapointed in dog world. Nothing gets done in Malaysia.......well too slow anyway but leave that for another time Wink

In Australia, there is this organisation GSDCA which is supposedly the main body for GSD is governed by show people who is interested in their dogs looking good but nothing else. These are big time show people and breeder. Although they are affiliated to WUSV, they are not subscribing to WUSV policy of a GSD must not only have the looks but they must have the ability and courage. Since WUSV needs this policy in place, GSDCA had in a way gone in to sabotage GSD by quietly lobbying the government for the ban in SCHH activities. This way GSDCA can justify and do not have to subject their dogs from passing this temprement and ability test in order to show and breed.

There is another organisation in Australia .....I forgot the name....dealing in working dogs. These are the serious people training and competing in the sports of SchH. These are the people trying to enlighten the public of how safe the SchH dogs are really is and why such test is needed. A GSD without the heart and courage of GSD is a dead breed.

The breeders whom said SchH is dangerous has no idea what SchH is. They do not understand dogs good enough to comment on this sport. ScHH dogs are points scoring dogs and must be 100% reliable at all time. Discipline and the love for the work must very high in the dogs mind. DO u think an abused dog can do that?Tongue That is your answer....SlyLaugh

It is good that you are researching on it. SchH needs alot of determination and time to spend with your dog. Most importantly, for you to succeed in SchH you need to have SUPER interest in your dog. This way man n dog can function as a great team. The idea is not if you win or lose a trial but how much enjoyment you n your dog have in doing the work.

The surest way to learn is first to get a reasonable good dog. Your first may not be a 100% SchH trained dog but he can surely do at least 25% which is good enough for starters and you will then get better as u go along.

Oh yeah....never beat a puppy whatever the case should be.Sly

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


qstee
Novice


Sep 28, 2004, 11:09 PM


Views: 19889
Re: [PSD] Local Schutzhund Trial
Thanks for the helpful advice. dont be too down lah....the starting part is always the hardest. just have faith in it and it will be doneSmile.

actually im planning to get the GSD for a guard dog. as u can see the malaysia crime rate is getting higher and higher and i think a well trained GSD is much reliable than a security guard. dont u agree with that....Cool. actually i had one rottweiler in malaysia. and i send to this trainer for a month for a RM 1000. i feel that ive been con by him. aihhh.....the more i talk to the trainer and read the books the more i confirm he con my money. and i read from the forum i found that there are so many ppl out there using the dog as a money tree. thats why i think better do the training my self.

do u have any advice that get me start on this wonderful species?Laughthanks alot......

p/s:i did send u an email. did u receive it?


PSD
ALPHA


Sep 29, 2004, 12:54 AM


Views: 19878
Re: [qstee] Local Schutzhund Trial
Quote
Thanks for the helpful advice. dont be too down lah....the starting part is always the hardest. just have faith in it and it will be doneSmile.

hahahahaha.....done.....by who? our beloved scenario here is almost functioning like the GSD body in Australia. So many people are really good talkers but none around when the time to act come. TongueUnsure I'll wait ler....no more lobbying for me. Me just wait and if it comes then it comes if not then nevermind also. I still have my dogs and I enjoyed working them my own with some friends. Smile



Quote


actually im planning to get the GSD for a guard dog. as u can see the malaysia crime rate is getting higher and higher and i think a well trained GSD is much reliable than a security guard. dont u agree with that....Cool. actually i had one rottweiler in malaysia. and i send to this trainer for a month for a RM 1000.

RM1000 for one month to train a guard dog? Surely u kena. Everyone seams to think protection training is so simple as the dog biting. 1 month isnt going to be it. The soonest u can churn out a reliable protection dog is 3-4 months if the dog has good temprements and drives. For SchH high scorer u need more than 1 year to train and condition them and I'm talking about at least 4 -5 session a week.



Quote


the more i talk to the trainer and read the books the more i confirm he con my money. and i read from the forum i found that there are so many ppl out there using the dog as a money tree. thats why i think better do the training my self.

This is reality. All kinds of people and not many u can find willing to lose money for the hobby. Most is thinking how to make fast buck. Its reality. Doint it yourself is a noble intention but it takes time and practise. If you are training a guard dog then you cannot do it yourself. You will never be able to put the dog in a situation that he needs to defend himself from u. BlushLaugh



Quote


do u have any advice that get me start on this wonderful species?Laughthanks alot......

My advice is start with OB and get the book "Purely Positive Training" by Shiela Booth. Then get in touch with people who knows how to train protection in your area and learn along with them. Are u in KL? can always refer you to some friends.



Quote


p/s:i did send u an email. did u receive it?

My mail was spammed like hell UnsureMad was overloaded too Blush. Nope didnt receive your mail. Can u resend I had just cleaned it.Smile

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


qstee
Novice


Sep 29, 2004, 1:10 AM


Views: 19873
Re: [PSD] Local Schutzhund Trial
im actually coming back during beginning of dec, and will be in malaysia for 3 months. therefore i think u can intro some dog enthusiast and expert for me(been waiting for this moment quite awhileSmile).

I know that it is very tough to train a schtuzthund trial dog. that time i was too naive and believe what the guy say. that time i was a bit lazy and think that ppl can do it for me. didnt really put much effort in. now i know that u want this wonderful species to work with u, u must put in hell lot of effort.

actually i got a rottweiler at home.but it kind of gone out of control. im very regret for what i have done. therefore i wouldnt want to repeat the same mistake again.

i actually trying to find the sheila booth book over here. i got some other books recommend by the trainer as well. therefore i will try to look up(but it is really expensive man. wait till my mum find out im dead....Tongue...hahaha)


PSD
ALPHA


Sep 29, 2004, 7:11 PM


Views: 19839
Re: [qstee] Local Schutzhund Trial
Sure. Just give me a note when u will be here and lets see what we can do.

Before u mistaken me, Would like to clarify that Guard dog can be trained by a 3rd person if that 3rd person has the skills for it. It is just that he will keep u informed of the progress month by month and after the dog qualify he will work with you and show how u can handle the dog. In other words he passes over the command of the dog to you.

I would not like the idea of 3 month speed training for a guard dog. What I would look for is not how good I'm in training but if the dog has the right temprement n nerves for the training. Would like to evaluate the dog at young age from 8 weeks to 4 month. Then I would propose this dog be started in "drived obedience" then the dog will be passed to the owner to control and get the relationship going until perfect control is gained. Then when the dog reach 8-10 months we start with some basic bite development work and continue from then until we achieve good confident bite but still under control. This can go on for 2-3 month (commercial training will stop here and give u back the dog as fully trained)

Then we will put the dog in numerous attempted reality scenario which I shall not describe here before the dog is certified as graduated. The process of tuning is done every month or every other month to keep the dog tip top for the work in your own property.

This way you will have reliable dog of the lifetime. However saying that, not every dog can do that which is why selection is important. The worst that can happen is for one person not so sure about reading a dog to go and buy a puppy and ended up with something that cannot work. Sadly this is what I usually see.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


russellc
Novice

Oct 3, 2004, 6:18 PM


Views: 19778
Re: [Ludoc] Local Schutzhund Trial
I fully support the idea of starting up a true schH club.

you can count me in anytime.

Winkname :russell

Tonguelocation: USJ subang

Coollooking: to join any schH club

CrazyBreed: gsd

Slyhp: 0123939 019


russellc
Novice

Oct 5, 2004, 9:25 AM


Views: 19756
Re: [russellc] Local Schutzhund Trial
Hi,

This is my self-introduction:

I only have GSDs from kids till now. I had bought my first working GSD puppy from Kirschental 8 year ago, Cerrie vom kirschental, thinking of might be able to train her for Schutzhund....well..only found out we don't have any!

So, i wait...... 8year till now...........i still can not see any light of it ( and i know clearly the reason behind it) ! My bitch is still with me, i had her trained in OB, by myself, from the resourceful net and video. Can not train protection cause can't find a helper.

I just bought another puppy from a Czech working line, his name is Fero Z Jirkova dvora CS, 4 months old, training him in tracking, still, leaning from the net and advise from the breeder. Thinking of sending him back to Germany to train for schH, very expensive, the fee and expenses is equivalent as sending my son to England for his degree! I must be mad if i decided to do it, i think.

As to Schutzhund club, i'm still very much keeping my finger cross, but will take any active position if time is right, of course, together with many of guys like u, we can realise the idea.

I still have many 8 year to live, i believe.


boon
Doggyman


Oct 5, 2004, 4:44 PM


Views: 19746
Re: [russellc] Local Schutzhund Trial
Cerrie vom kirschental born on 5th Oct 1997 ?

This kennel breed combination of show and recently step into working line gsd. So from the pedigree, ur gal is a typical german show line.

fero z jirkova dvora hmmmm who is the sire/dam ?

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


qstee
Novice


Oct 5, 2004, 9:41 PM


Views: 19729
Re: [russellc] Local Schutzhund Trial
Wow!!! that is really expesive man. i think another way is to buy books and videos and learn through them. i think that would be cheaper.


russellc
Novice

Oct 5, 2004, 10:21 PM


Views: 19718
Re: [boon] Local Schutzhund Trial
Yes. But i really cannot answer or respond to you about a 8-year-ago show kirschental and now-a-day working kirschental, cause i did not follow every single of their breeding, and i'm not a German myself that i understand what they say .Crazy

One thing is , however, sure; cerrie is the best gsd i ever had. Definitely easier to handler and develop thru the pray drive, never tried her defensive drive tot, any time easier then controlling Fero! May be i was only ready for a show bitch!Sly


russellc
Novice

Oct 6, 2004, 8:10 AM


Views: 19700
Re: [boon] Local Schutzhund Trial
As to Fero:

Fero is from Xac z Pohranicni straze & Chasinta z Pohranicni straze, line-breed is Iro z Pohranicni straze 3-3, the father of Gent od Policie. May be a 3-3 is too close??

In tracking, I'm using on him the so-called " three foot food", where you put his flavorous food within every single footsteps within three foot dimension, anyway it's mainly lots of play and game, to create a closer relationship and make him know the command of "search".

My hand and foot are all scratches, he will keep fight back, bite harder the second time, he is also very suspicious especially in new environmental. If he is not properly groom, will definitely a fear bitter. It's lots of different from kirschental bitch, where the bitch spirit is more lively, the bond more human, the prey drive of west GSD is well (shall i say genetically) more developed. Fero mind is more independent, well..don't really know how to tell, will need to observe more time (less then one month with me). He is learning basic OB, like sit, down, stand. retrieve no way yet!Pirate

I also learn from the past-thread that u have a Czech GSD, how is he doing ?


boon
Doggyman


Oct 6, 2004, 4:26 PM


Views: 19693
Re: [russellc] Local Schutzhund Trial
3-3 is 'pretty normal' definately not too close. u can even see 2-2 on some very closely monitor and observe linebred to reproduce themselves.

i don do any formal training for my boy yet....he is still wild. let him be a doy as long as he still know and aware that i'm the boss. will strart him when he turn 1.

tracking i will use the joanne plumb's way. the footsteps, scentbox and etc.

Quote
he is also very suspicious especially in new environmental. If he is not properly groom, will definitely a fear bitter

socialise the hell out of him....else u will have hard time to take control over him. What do u plan to do with him ? PP ? Schh ?

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


russellc
Novice

Oct 7, 2004, 4:23 AM


Views: 19664
Re: [boon] Local Schutzhund Trial
Yes, i even saw some dad-daughter line!Unsure

No particular planning, just let him know the command of search, some 20 steps tracking (if only i know), basic OB, retrieve, keep his prey drive alive during his first one year + hell lot of socializing.

Do not know how to get a schH? can he be register under SV and get kkl?


boon
Doggyman


Oct 7, 2004, 6:22 AM


Views: 19646
Re: [russellc] Local Schutzhund Trial
kkl ? not now.

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


russellc
Novice

Oct 7, 2004, 7:17 AM


Views: 19639
Re: [boon] Local Schutzhund Trial
ya, i mean later stage.


edwardng
New User

Dec 7, 2004, 7:21 AM


Views: 19242
Re: [boon] Local Schutzhund Trial
Dear Boon,

I am also a working person, at the moment, i'm working my dog for Schutzhund 1, i've been helper for the past 4 years. i'm sure their a lot of things we can share

please direct to this post. thank you.




edward chin


boon
Doggyman


Dec 7, 2004, 4:09 PM


Views: 19224
Re: [edwardng] Local Schutzhund Trial
Hi Edward,

Nice to hear that from your end, where r u from ?

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


beethovan
Novice

Dec 9, 2004, 1:44 AM


Views: 19197
Re: [boon] Local Schutzhund Trial
Hi Guys,

I am GSD Lover and would hope to learn more of Sch & other form of Training/experience to improve the overall being of our beloved dog. I am surprised to see that not much activity had been held/finalise as I followed the progress from the first thread till the last thread.

I am sure that some form of informal friendly gathering will promote the bond and support for this sport among all.

Or perhaps, I had missed the apportunity to catch up with all.

Looking eagerly to catchup with you guys for any form of gathering if available.


qstee
Novice


Dec 9, 2004, 5:35 PM


Views: 19171
Re: [beethovan] Local Schutzhund Trial
yeah!!! a gathering will be a wonderful idea.....