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Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy







jonese20
Novice


Sep 22, 2003, 7:58 PM

Post #1 of 87 (6138 views)
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Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy Can't Post

Hello...wondering if a fellow Labrador Retriever owner could provide some reassurance that I just happened to get "lucky" with Indiana Jones, our 9 month-old chocolate lab. Indy has always been a passive pup, though he is rarely shy now that he is older. He's always been the type of lab to lie down if bored (as opposed to tearing up the house). Lately, though, we've been noticing Indy has been very lethargic - sleep a lot (even when we are home), never has much energy to play, non-interest in his food (we haven't altered the food routine since he's been a little guy). It's almost as though he's depressed.

He is kenneled in an indoor/outdoor kennel during the work days, but we try to come home for lunch at least 2 days/week. I'm worried more about his lack of energy - every single lab puppy I've ever come into contact with (besides Indy) has been a mountain of energy and excitement! Indy can barely keep interest in a good game of fetch.

Am I being too concerned? Is his behavior normal for his age? Is this maybe because he's recently been neutered (at 7 months)? Any advice you could give is much appreciated. Thanks.


hunter
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 22, 2003, 9:08 PM

Post #2 of 87 (6130 views)
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Re: [jonese20] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

hello jonese

for retrievers, if they behave this way, normally it's a sign that they're seriously lacking of exercise and are bored stiff - which thus explain the sign of his "depression" you've mentioned.

labbies are fairly active dogs (esp when your dog is still 9 months old only), thus exercises should be provided constantly and consistently, else they'll just lie around the whole day, be less active, get fatter too (is he overweight btw?)

how long do u take him out for walks everyday? how long do you play with him? i would suggest u take him out for jogs whenever you're free (go slow at first, make sure u don't go too far either or you'll tire your boy out). be consistent. remember, lots of exercise.

btw, my golden retriever would show the signs too whenever i got too busy and did not take him out for walks/play with him. a couple of days of good play and exercise and he's back to his old self again :)

hope this helps. if problem not solved, do consider to seek consultation from a vet.





regards,
hunter


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 23, 2003, 6:23 PM

Post #3 of 87 (6113 views)
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Re: [hunter, jonese20] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

   

Hello Hunter & Jonese20... Smile

I saw Jonese20 posting on the other thread ... Normally I'd agree with Hunter ... a lethargic retriever is often bored ... maybe a little overweight ... Smile ... and lacking exercise ... (Hunter & I know this malaise of retrievers well ... *laughs*)

But I suddenly noticed the doggie's age ... The doggie is 8 months old ... and assuming that the doggie is otherwise healthy ... the doggie could be showing symptoms of "growing pains" or sore joints ...

This can occur in growing doggies (usually of medium to large breeds) from between 6 to 12 months ... when their joints ache because they have grown so fast ... the experts say that this happens when the doggie's growing cartilage is starts to gradually mineralizes into bone, sometimes resulting in an uneveb bone surface that friction during joint movement.

http://www.petsurgery.com/growingpains.htm

http://rev.tamu.edu/...ies/02/121902-3.html

If the doggie is suffering "growing pains" ... then exercise is not recommended ... rather the doggie should be allowed to rest and proceed at its own pace ... Smile ...

Most often, the condition of "growing pains" resolves itself as the dog matures ... there is no immediate need for too much concern ... just observe the dog carefuly ... but if the dog seems to be much discomfort - take to the vet and mention the possibility of "osteochondrosis" ... Smile

Cheers ... Smile


hunter
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 23, 2003, 7:01 PM

Post #4 of 87 (6110 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

sometimes ppl do not recommend boosting too much protein for the pups.

does overdosage of protein in puppy's food caused the rapid growth, thus lead to growing pain as well?



regards,
hunter


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 23, 2003, 7:33 PM

Post #5 of 87 (6108 views)
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Re: [hunter] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi ... Smile ...

Many experienced doggie-people actually move their pups to adult food quite early ... to cut down on protein intake ... so as to slow down excessive growth-rate and avoid the potential problems that can be brought about by too rapid growth ... including "growing pains" ...

Apparently, from newborn to adult ... of all mammals, the dog multiplies the greatest increase ... When I first read that - I found it quite amazing (*thinking of blue whales & elephants*) ... but I guess that's why we have to be careful and try to manage our puppies growth & exercise pattern when young ...

Until the bones of a dog fully mature ... a growing pup should get its exercise through normal play and not from long walks or strenuous exercise routines, especially jumping.

Cheers Smile


hunter
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 23, 2003, 7:47 PM

Post #6 of 87 (6107 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

hi,

ohh, so that's the case... :o

but by giving adult food early, won't that means also that the pup will no longer grow?


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 23, 2003, 8:48 PM

Post #7 of 87 (6105 views)
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Re: [hunter] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

   

Hi ...

Laugh ... This was my exactly first worry too ... *laughs*... so can understand your concern.

Well ... we are just speaking of a minimal/moderate reduction in the amount of protein intake and not any drastic or severe reduction in food intake ...

For example: moving from puppy kibble to adult kibble will probably just reduce the protein levels from 30+% ... to 28% ... and you'd probably only make such a switch at about 6months or so ...

Unless you actually starve the pup, causing malnutrition ... just reducing protein intake will merely slow down the rate of growth without preventing the pup from achieving the full potential growth/size that is already imprinted into its genetic code.

The pup will simply grow a little more slowly, with time to build strong dense bone until it reaches maturity ...

Smile


hunter
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 24, 2003, 1:35 AM

Post #8 of 87 (6100 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

ohhhh now i get u.

so the growth rate just slows down and will not be reduced...

was worried a GR will be a size of a cocker at age 3.

thanks a lot for the info. once again learnt something from sifu :>



regards,
hunter


boon
Doggyman


Sep 24, 2003, 8:08 AM

Post #9 of 87 (6094 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,

correct me if i'm wrong, i think % of protien in puppy food is about 27% to 28% (normal large breed puppy food). 23% to 25% of protien for large breed adult and i prefer the combination of 25%/15% of protien/fat and 2% of fiber will be good.

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 24, 2003, 9:34 AM

Post #10 of 87 (6092 views)
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Re: [boon] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Hello ...

Your percentages are not wrong ... Smile ...

But it does depend on the brand ... for example ... A*F can go up as high as 33% protein/18% fat for large puppy kibble ... and Eag*e goes as low as 23% protein for large puppy kibble.

Would agree with you that 25%protein/15%fat ... would be about right ... Smile ...

Cheers


(This post was edited by surchinmy on Sep 24, 2003, 9:37 AM)


boon
Doggyman


Sep 24, 2003, 5:06 PM

Post #11 of 87 (6086 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,

Thanz for the info, but i there are some other kibble like b@ck t0 b@s1cs, their protien level is 23% for all stages of dog life regardless of large or small breed. Do you think this is a good idea ?

I knew that Candidae was using the similar formula for all stages of dog life but after 6 years of doing so, then changed to different formula that formulated for small breed, large breed, puppy, adult and senior.

23% for a nursing bitch is definately not enough in my opinion, what do u think.

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 24, 2003, 8:35 PM

Post #12 of 87 (6078 views)
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Re: [boon] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi ... Smile

Yes ... some kibble brands do keep protein levels the same for dogs at all stages ... Is that good? ...

Well ... (just thoughts) ... Lets take animals in the wild as a reference point.

Supposition: For feral or wild dogs, wolves etc living in the wild ... once their young are weaned, they don't really get food that is much different from what the adults eat (maybe they get some regurgitated food) but otherwise the composition is much the same ... and the same goes for the older animals too, they still eat the same kind of food and derive nutrients from much the same source.

If the supposition is correct ... then why should our dogs require different "composition" of food at different stages of their lives?

If the supposition is correct - then, kibble that is supposedly "good, healthy & balanced" enough for adult dogs, should also be good enough for dogs of all ages and at all stages. And as our dogs pass through the different stages of their lives, they should merely eat more or less of the kibble ... and that should be the only variation required.

Back to your original question: "... their protein level is 23% for all stages of dog life regardless of large or small breed. Do you think this is a good idea?"

*IF* the kibble is really and truthfully good & complete healthy food, filled with nutrients that our dogs can absorb and use ... then I would say yes ... keeping the same formula ought to be good enough. Then as dog owners, we should only be required to vary the amount of kibble ... to cater for the different stages of our dog's life ... the difference in sizes ... the difference in activity levels ... And any refinement in the kibble thereafter is merely to optimise new knowledge or understanding ...

But my problem is - I am finding it increasingly difficult to believe that kibble is truthfully good complete healthy food in the first place ...

If my recollection is correct - all this variety in kibble is a fairly recent innovation ... And rather recently - everyone seems to be jumping on the bandwagon ... kibble has gone from premium to super premium, with variations for every conceivable purpose ... what next? ...

And I really wonder:

(a) How much of it is just marketing hype? ... Is there really a difference? ...

(b) How much of it has actually made necessary because the kibble produced was never really good enough ... and now we need special food for the poor quality dogs created by kibble in the first place?

You wrote: "... 23% for a nursing bitch is definately not enough in my opinion, what do u think? ..."

It's really so hard to say - there is just so much variation in the "quality" of kibble ... 23% protein from a good protein source combined with good absorbable fat, may be better than higher percentages of poorer quality elements ...

For pregnant & nursing bitches ... our breeder friends don't seem to rely so much on the so-called special kibble for pregnant or lactating bitches ... instead, they seem to focus on the following:

(a) Ensuring that the bitch is in good health and condition before breeding ... "The gestation period is not a proper time to attempt to rebuild depleted body reserves. Nutritional excesses during the entire gestation period will be channeled to the fetus, and may result in complications at time of whelping. An obese dog will have a much more difficult time at whelping ..."

(b) Ensuring the quality and freshness of the foods they feed ... they give good fresh meats (marbled with some fat), liver and other offal ... carcasses ... fresh fish ... appropriate supplements ... maintaining proper dietary calcium-phosphorus ratio ...

(c) Taking extra care during the first month after whelping when the nutritional needs of the bitch peaks.

Most of them don't rely on kibble as the sole or primary source of nutrients.

Okies ... have rambled on enough ...

Cheers Smile


boon
Doggyman


Sep 24, 2003, 9:11 PM

Post #13 of 87 (6072 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,

Wah...thanz for sharing with us, let go a little more precise, if take for example, the kibble is B@ck To B@sics, what is your view then.Wink

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 24, 2003, 9:30 PM

Post #14 of 87 (6071 views)
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Re: [boon] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

Just had a look at the BtoB site ...

*Waaah* ... very impressive loh ... ultra premium even ...

They are very specific about the sources of their ingredients and that is good ... am sure "interested" parties in US would have counter checked their claims ...

Now I have question ... how much ah - for 15kg pack? ... And where find? ... Smile

Cheers ...


(This post was edited by surchinmy on Sep 24, 2003, 9:31 PM)


boon
Doggyman


Sep 24, 2003, 9:41 PM

Post #15 of 87 (6069 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,

I'm now have my Bonney on and another huge sample of kibble name Canine Caviar. She seem to like CC more, may be bored of .

U can get in most of the pet shops n subang/PJ area. Do u think is ok for u to find out the CC kibble and share with me. I personally prefer CC. I like their ingredient and more importantly no corn, no wheat and allergen free. u can check this out @ www.caninecaviar.com

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 24, 2003, 10:51 PM

Post #16 of 87 (6066 views)
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Re: [boon] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi ... had a look at CC website ...

I have not tried either BtoB or CC ... and so whatever I write is just from the information provided on their respective sites ... Smile ...

(a) Both kibble obviously belong in the super premium (or higher) range of dog kibble ... and in that sense ... they are both free from the common chemical preservatives that have received so much bad publicity. Both use vitamins as preservatives.

(b) CC uses white/brown rice as their main grain filler while BtoB uses corn. Any advantage? ... Not as far as I know ... both are good fillers - usually giving less problems than wheat or soya ... So unless your dog is specifically allergic to either rice or corn ... there ought to be no or little difference. The fibre content seems similar. BtoB identify their oats as coming from Quaker.

(c) The supplements in both brands also look quite similar to me Smile... (an expert or trained nutritionist would probably tell you the differences) ... both kibble have well rounded vitamin & mineral supplements.

But BtoB might have an advantage because BtoB also provide dried probiotics (useful enzymes/bacteria) to aid the digestive system. (I personally like probiotics)

(b) The biggest difference between the 2 brands appears to be this:

*** CC says its chemical preservative free and has Flaxseed Oil & Fishmeal ... ok that's good ... But BtoB also has Fishmeal, Lecithin, Alfalfa Meal, Fish Oil, Canola Oil which basically serves the same function. And BtoB go one step further - they actually identify the source of their Fishmeal - Herring ...

*** CC's list of ingredients seem similar to most premium dog kibble ...

*** BtoB appears to have one big advantage ... BtoB provides assurance that their meat and other main ingredients are "human-grade" ... and that's an immediate attraction. Not many premium kibble can make such representation. CC too, does not or perhaps cannot make such claim.

From my understanding there is a big difference between even the best industrial grade product and "human-grade" products.

BtoB also claims to be steroid and antiboitic free ... that's another plus.

So overall - I'd go for BtoB ... based on the list of ingredients ... Unless my dog is allergic to corn, having a corn filler would not affect my choice.

Cheers Smile


Riccaval
ALPHA


Sep 24, 2003, 11:05 PM

Post #17 of 87 (6062 views)
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Re: [surchinmy,boon] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

Interesting comparison.,SK do you mind doing it with C-nid-e. Like all of us we want to give the best to our doggies.

boon!! kibble rollercoasting again ah?LaughLaugh


boon
Doggyman


Sep 24, 2003, 11:14 PM

Post #18 of 87 (6061 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

I do agree wiht you for the cost per KG between B2B and CC. B2B is cheaper than CC but some of the forum members are on B2B and the feedback i got from them is after feeding B2B, the dog/pup look skinnier than before even the amount consume is more. I personally don have this problem with B2B (may be my monkey eat too much junk). I had friends tried B2B on their labbies, goldies, GSD, JRT, bull mastiff, dogue de bordoeux and etc. Basically all of them gave me the same feedback, from density of fur, skinnier even feed more, fur not as shine as before.

But some others that are on B2B like it very much and their dog just doing well with B2B. Again back to the very first rules of changing/choosing a right diet for your dog, which is no one brand that can suite all dogs not all dogs agree with the complicated ingredients use in today dog food manufacturer.

But one think i can say for sure, they don use BHA/BHT as preservative and this will eventually cause kidney problem and cancer.

Cut & Paste from one of my private mail with the kibble manufacturing specialist. ====================================================================== I found two diets for dogs. They both look like good diets minus the corn. One thing I did find is the second ingredient is Corn. I will do a comparison.

Omega - B2B Omega 6/3 ratio of 7:1 Canine Caviar Omega 6:3 ratio range from 1.9:1 to 3.0:1 pending on the diet. CC offering 3 to 4 times better Omega ratio (benefits skin, coat, immune system)

Metabolized Energy - B2B 441 kc per cup Canine Caviar 399 cal/cup ranging to 554 cal/cup so CC have diet formulas for puppy, adult, working, and maintained

Digestibility - B2B didn't provide overall digestibility but Canine Caviar digestibility 91% on all diets

Packaging - B2B using paper bag and with shipping in a container and 30 days at seas this might be a concern and max shelflife is 9 months expiration Canine Caviar use a foil / poly bag and food is good for 18 months and is not subject to any water damage. So a fresher product! Corn is an allergen or can be (not all dogs are allergic but is considered an allergen because so many are) and is the number one cause of lick sores. Dogs can not digest corn (much like humans and you can see this in your own waste / you can not see it in the dogs waste because it is ground up and blended in the formula), and more so in warmer climates what will happen is the corn coagulates under the skin and makes a bump. The dog itches and bites at it. This interns causes the hair to be removed in that spot and then the dog starts licking it creating the lick sore.

Corn is very inexpensive to purchase and why it is considered a filler. Just so you know the first two ingredients make up aprox 85% of any diet. The first five ingredients make up aprox 95% of diet generally.

As for description on ingredients Corn - Omega 6 is in corn and there is a trace of Omega 3 but nothing for any sort of ratio. Just for an example look and see any company that sells supplements for Omegas ... and you won't find a single one that uses Corn yet they will all advertise Omega 3 with flaxseed or fishmeal and both is superior. For Omega 3 Canine Caviar use fishmeal and flaxseed so they have a animal and a plant for superior digestion. Also corn stating a "King of Carbohydrates" which means broken down very high in sugar and then turns into fat and once again you can see how the food will collect under the skin when you have a fat that can not be digested by some.

==================================================================== This one is mail from CC

We have the highest level of omega 6:3 fatty acid ratio in pet food as far as we know (no one writes there % ours is printed on the bag), we obtain a 91% digestibility without any prebeotics or probeotics (still really new ingredients with no long term studies and just now research is starting to show major strains on the pancreas), single meat protein sorce, and we have diets ranging from 554 kcal/cup down to 399 kcal/cup trying to meat the neads of all dogs. It is still being tested by third party companies that if you are suppose to feed a puppy just more food to get more calories specially as he/she grows throught the first 10 months what happens to the stretched out intestine and stomach when you start cutting that back? ====================================================================

What do u think ? No mean or whatsoever to argue or 'fight' but just one to have some one like you to share and discuss about.

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --

(This post was edited by boon on Sep 24, 2003, 11:25 PM)


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 24, 2003, 11:33 PM

Post #19 of 87 (6057 views)
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Re: [boon] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi ya ... Smile...

Very interesting stuff lah - thanks ... gotto take some time and read properly ... Smile

Cheers


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 24, 2003, 11:36 PM

Post #20 of 87 (6055 views)
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Re: [Riccaval] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

*ahyooh* ... what this "C-nid-e" ???

Cheers Smile


boon
Doggyman


Sep 24, 2003, 11:39 PM

Post #21 of 87 (6054 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,

no problem....do get back to me on what u think.Wink

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


boon
Doggyman


Sep 24, 2003, 11:41 PM

Post #22 of 87 (6053 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

Candidae

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 25, 2003, 12:11 AM

Post #23 of 87 (6050 views)
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Re: [boon] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

   

*hmmm* ... Can see the point that the "specialists" ... are making ... the pertinent points (to me) are;

(a) Packing: ... Yes - foil packing does make a difference ... just open a bag of A*F and you can straight away tell the difference ... But if BtoB gets good regular supply then the equation levels out ...

(b) Energy levels: ... *hmmm* ... not too bothered with this ... I am not entirely convinced by the different formulas for different ages even ... (but this is personal view and this factor is not important to me because I only use kibble as a base ... and not as sole food source).

(c) Digestibility: This one I am not sure about ... can be misleading maybe ... just remove fiber and digestibility increases ... so having 91% digestibility does not necessarily mean better food ... could just mean less fiber or less filler ... perhaps the calorie count is better indication ... but dunno ...

(d) Omega ratio: Assuming the "specialist" is reporting accurately ... CC does have better ratio ... a 2:1 ratio is highly recommended ... It could be the insufficient Omega 3 that is causing doggies to lose shine in coat ... but Omega 3 is quite easy to supplement ...

(e) Corn: I would agree lar ... given choice between corn and rice ... I kinda prefer brown rice ... we use brown rice and the doggies seem to take well to it too ...

QUESTION: How come no one mention the better quality meat products in BtoB? ... If BtoB has better protein source ... then isn't it easier to just supplment Omega 3 ... ?

Hey ... maybe you write to BtoB and see what their "specialists" have to say ? ... That will be interesting ... *

Say ... what are the prices for CC & BtoB??? ... See if price can help swing a vote even ... LOL

Cheers ...Smile


Riccaval
ALPHA


Sep 25, 2003, 12:22 AM

Post #24 of 87 (6043 views)
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Re: [boon,surchinmy] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

Crazyits canidae not candidaeLaughLaugh


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 25, 2003, 12:23 AM

Post #25 of 87 (6042 views)
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Re: [boon, Riccaval] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

  



Smile Smile Smile Okay ... Canid*e wins ... this one combines the best of CC & BtoB ... So no one can complain ...

Got no corn, wheat or soya ... Uses human grade meats ... the chicken, turkey lamb & rice makes up 95% of the kibble ... got Fish Meal, Flax Seed, Sun Cured Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Lecithin, Brewers Yeast ...

Everything also got ...

Only thing missing is ... tea tarik and roti canai ... LOL Smile

Question: Cost? ...

Cheers ...


hunter
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 25, 2003, 12:27 AM

Post #26 of 87 (1564 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

hi,

i don't quite get it. how does the foil packing actually make any difference? the kibbles gets fresher and tastes nicer?



regards,
hunter


boon
Doggyman


Sep 25, 2003, 12:33 AM

Post #27 of 87 (1563 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

(c) Digestibility: This one I am not sure about ... can be misleading maybe ... just remove fiber and digestibility increases ... so having 91% digestibility does not necessarily mean better food ... could just mean less fiber or less filler ... perhaps the calorie count is better indication ... but dunno ...

To me digestibility simply means the intake of kibble/food and the output/waste. How much your dog can digest and absorb will determine the % of digestibility. Some grocery quality filler like P3d1gr33, @1p0 and etc are simply filler.

Main protien source for is from their so called 'Gluten Corn', an inexpensive way of producing protien but not meat based. The price for CC is about the range of Innova, Candidae, but will not more than Eagle Holistic. in the other hand is cheaper.

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


boon
Doggyman


Sep 25, 2003, 12:35 AM

Post #28 of 87 (1562 views)
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Re: [hunter] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah u can say 'so'.....in fact the aluminium based foil packaging bag is much better in local weather and u can feel the 'fresh' and 'cooling' air when u open the bag. I donno how to put it in words but u gotta feel it urself.Wink

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


boon
Doggyman


Sep 25, 2003, 12:39 AM

Post #29 of 87 (1560 views)
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Re: [Riccaval] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

okok paiseh paiseh Blush Blush Blush, any discount if get thru u for this brand of kibble ? hahaha u r so 'close' to the importer(s).

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 25, 2003, 12:41 AM

Post #30 of 87 (1558 views)
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Re: [hunter] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi ... Smile

Foil packing is stronger than normal paper packing (does not puncture so easily & more airtight) ... in some cases, company using foil packing also vaccum seal the kibble - thus giving longer shelf life ...

Kibble that stays fresh will always smell nicer ... for doggies smell probably more important than taste ...

Cheers


boon
Doggyman


Sep 25, 2003, 12:46 AM

Post #31 of 87 (1556 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

Is a matter of fact, Canidae and Canine Caviar are actually made in the same building in Hamlin, TX by the same Co-Packer just different ingredients and combination.

Same goes to Eagle and , make use of Eagle manufacturing facility in TX also. Wonder why most of the manufacturer located in TX, may be it is cheaper, but the transportation for delivering to nearest port will kill the importer especially the one with FOB.

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 25, 2003, 12:48 AM

Post #32 of 87 (1553 views)
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Re: [boon] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

... mexican labour in TX ... LOL


Riccaval
ALPHA


Sep 25, 2003, 12:49 AM

Post #33 of 87 (1552 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

SlyLaughSlyLaughThanks

teh tarik coming upCool


hunter
Ultra ALPHA


Sep 25, 2003, 12:51 AM

Post #34 of 87 (1551 views)
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Re: [boon, surchinmy] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

oh :o

so that's the case.

somehow even switching so many foods, majority are not using foil packing.. normally it's those stiff paper bags.

any examples of kibble brands that are packed in foil packing?



regards,
hunter


Riccaval
ALPHA


Sep 25, 2003, 12:51 AM

Post #35 of 87 (1551 views)
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Re: [boon] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

WinkMou Moon Ti..... but not canvassing for him.

My doggies are ok with it. Sai Swee SweeTongue


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 25, 2003, 12:57 AM

Post #36 of 87 (1549 views)
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Re: [hunter] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

I know that ANF comes in foil ... Boon says CCavier also comes in foil ...

But if the kibble you get is reasonably fast moving ... then usually paper packing is good enough ... I personally won't pick a kibble just based on the packing ...Smile


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 25, 2003, 12:59 AM

Post #37 of 87 (1547 views)
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Re: [Riccaval] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

Actually ... this Canidae sounds pretty good ... How much for 15kg - any idea?

CheersSmile


boon
Doggyman


Sep 25, 2003, 1:03 AM

Post #38 of 87 (1544 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

yeah u r right, no one will choose dog food based on the packaging. I know that chicken soup from diamond (small pack only) come with foil packaging.

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


boon
Doggyman


Sep 25, 2003, 7:36 AM

Post #39 of 87 (1539 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,

Complete ingredients of CC



Chicken Meal is lean carcass. This ingredient is used to provide protein, calcium, phosphorus and many trace minerals. We use only anti-biotic, hormone and pesticide free human grade chicken.

Lamb Meal is the lean carcass of lambs that are cooked and ground to a meal consistency. New Zealand is the source of our lamb meal because it is certified Scrapie-free country. Lamb refers to animals less than two years of age. This rich protein source also contributes calcium and phosphorus as well as other vital trace minerals. We use only anti-biotic, hormone and pesticide free human grade lamb.

White Rice contains a generous supply of B vitamins, plus calcium, phosphorus, and iron. It is also very nutritious, and of all the grains are the most easily digested and least likely to cause allergic reactions. Rice clears up psoriasis and is an anticancer and antidirrheal. Rice lowers cholesterol and prevents kidney stones.

Brown Rice Contains a generous supply of B vitamins, plus calcium, phosphorus and iron. It is also very nutritious, and of all the grains are the most easily digested and least likely to cause allergic reactions. Rice clears up psoriasis and is an anticancer and anti-dirrheal. Rice lowers cholesterol and prevents kidney stones.

Flaxseed is a grain from the linseed family. The oils within the grain are very rich in Omega-3 fatty acids. Flaxseed aids in the movement of food through the digestive tract. Flax is soothing to the stomach and intestinal linings and helps put a sheen on the coat.

Fish Meal is a rich protein source, providing omega-3 fatty acids and valuable bone components such as calcium and phosphorus.

Alfalfa aids in healing allergies, neutralizes stomach ailments and contains chlorophyll to help bad breath, helps prevent tooth decay; cleanses the kidneys & removes poisons from the body; neutralizes acids; is an excellent blood purifier; improves the appetite and aids in the assimilation of protein, calcium and other nutrients.

Kelp is the mother of all ingredients, a great source of vitamins, minerals and iodine. Aids in digestion, helps maintain a healthy stomach, reduces the risk of poisoning from environmental pollution, promotes healthy skin and coat and helps cleans the kidneys, bladder and uterus.

Beet Pulp has been found to be an ideal source of moderately fermentable fiber and provides nutrition for the naturally occurring probiotics. Beet pulp in a diet encourages colonization of those bacteria which best ferment or digest that form of fiber and discourage those organisms which do not effectively ferment fiber. There is no red color, since sugar beets are white. We have found the lignin to fiber ratio in our beet pulp to be far superior to the other alternatives being used by some companies.

Yucca helps keep hips & joints healthy and helps avoid inflammation; reduces breath and stool odor and helps reduce skin disorders and eruptions.

Garlic is a natural anti-biotic that has the ability to destroy harmful bacteria and at the same time leave behind beneficial bacteria. It strengthens the heart and nourishes the stomach, spleen and lungs. It improves circulation and stimulates the immune system.

Rose Hips have 60 times more vitamin C than citrus fruit, treats muscle cramps, helps prevent and treat infections and curbs stress.

Mono-Dicalcium Phosphate aids in the maintenance of a normal heartbeat and for the normal functioning of nerves and muscles. Also plays a role in multiple phases of blood coagulation and in many enzymatic processes.

Brewers Yeast is a rich source of B vitamins, containing 16 amino acids, 14 minerals and 17 vitamins. Protects, binds and rids from Mycotoxins, that cause liver and organ damage.

Sodium Chloride works with Potassium to regulate the body’s water balance, and found essential in small quantities for growth. Also used to maintain osmotic tension of blood and tissues.

DL-Methionine is an essential amino acid. It is used for its protein value and because it is a urinary acidifier.

Propionic Acid is a three carbon saturated fatty acid and acts as a metabolic intermediate.

Choline Chloride is a B vitamin and prevents the deposition of fat in the liver; is essential in synaptic transmission of nerve impulses.

Vitamin E is an antioxidant vital to normal reproductive processes and to help maintain the stability of cellular membranes throughout the body.

Riboflavin (B2) Promotes growth and is important in carbohydrate and amino acid metabolism. It is used for the nervous system, utilization of energy, healthy skin and coat and tissue repair.

Ferrous Sulfate is an oral iron preparation used in the treatment of iron deficiency.

Zinc Oxide forms an essential part of many enzymes and plays an important role in protein synthesis and cell division.

Calcium is utilized by the bones and teeth. Also used for muscle tissue, cells and blood.

Pantothenic Acid is a B complex vitamin that is a constituent of coenzyme A.

Coenzyme A plays a central role in various metabolic reactions, e.g., the transfer of acetyl groups and the oxidation of fatty acids.

Vitamin B12 is needed for the formation of red blood cells and the normal functioning of the nervous system (DNA).

Mixed Tocopherols refers to the family of structures recognized as Vitamin E and is used as an antioxidant to preserve the food.

Rosemary Extract is an herb that is used to preserve the food. It acts as a stimulant to the circulatory system strengthening the heart, a blood cleanser, an antiseptic and also helps treat bad breath.

Citric Acid is a compound found in fruit that is used to preserve the food and is an intermediate in the Krebs cycle.

Niacin is a B complex Vitamin that helps process carbohydrates, protein and fat. Necessary for a healthy nervous system and brain functions.

Vitamin A Acetate is necessary for the maintenance of eyesight, skin tissue, the respiratory-, urogenital- and digestive tract and the immune system. This form is readily available to those animals such as cats that are not capable of converting beta-carotene to Vitamin A.

Calcium Iodate is a calcium supplement used for muscle tissue, cells and blood.

Copper Oxide is a trace mineral, essential in nutrition, being a component of various proteins. It works in respiration, synthesis of hemoglobin and the production of collagen.

Manganous Oxide is a trace mineral that works with the liver, pancreas, kidney and bone. It is necessary for the synthesis of mucopolysaccharides and activates a number of enzymes.

Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (B6) aids in the maintenance of the neuromuscular and neurological systems. Important to nitrogen metabolism and red blood cell formation.

Vitamin D3 regulates calcium and phosphorus absorption from the digestive tract. It promotes normal bone calcification and is necessary for bone formation in the young animal and the normal maintenance of adult bone.

Folic Acid is a water-soluble vitamin essential for the formation of red blood cells, utilization of amino acids and the normal function of the nervous system.

Thiamine Mononitrate (B1) is a water soluble B Vitamin that promotes good appetite and growth. Aids in digestion of carbohydrates, keeps muscles from degenerating, promotes skin healing and is required for normal functioning of the nervous system.

Biotin is required for normal skin and haircoat, prevents dermatitis and is essential for normal metabolism of fatty acids and the deamination of certain amino acids.

Sodium Selenite is used to help prevent dermatitis.

Chelated Minerals – A process in which mineral substances are changed into their digestible form. Amino acid bound chelated mineral supplements provide 3 to 10 times greater assimilation than common minerals do.

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 25, 2003, 7:53 AM

Post #40 of 87 (1537 views)
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Re: [boon] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

*Hmmm* ... how come i didn't see all this at their website??? ... Unsure ...

Now I'm getting confused ... these ingredients look pretty good too ... LOL ...

Lemme have a closer look ... Smile

Thanks


boon
Doggyman


Sep 25, 2003, 8:50 AM

Post #41 of 87 (1533 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

insider news may be........go this from one of the oversea forum friend. She is a lab breeder in Michigan.

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


drew
ALPHA


Sep 25, 2003, 9:04 AM

Post #42 of 87 (1531 views)
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Re: [surchinmy, boon] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

hey i fed my dog b2b at first and then they dun really like it at all .. changed to CC and they are more likely to eat more than b2b. think it was because of the taste too ... b2b has no effects on them at all ... they eat less ad also they look the same ... where as after feeding them cc the coat looks more dense and shinier... Laugh


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 25, 2003, 9:25 AM

Post #43 of 87 (1530 views)
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Re: [drew, boon] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

 
With the complete list of ingredients of CC ... it looks like CC and Canidae are better then BtoB ...Smile


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 25, 2003, 6:08 PM

Post #44 of 87 (1522 views)
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Re: [boon, drew, Riccaval, hunter] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

*Hmmm* ... just a thought ...

If this is their "actual" list of ingredients ... then why does CC not say so in their own website ... (have also checked the other related sites I can find) and none of them mention that CC ingredients (esp: the chicken and lamb) are " ... human-grade & free from abtiboitic, hormones and pesticides ..."

All these sites just say that the meats are free of by products and chemical preservatives.

Surely, it cannot be just a lapse in advertisement ... it would certainly be a good selling point ...

Both C'nidae and BtoB set out quite clearly the source and nature of their meat ingredients ...

Cheers


boon
Doggyman


Sep 25, 2003, 6:20 PM

Post #45 of 87 (1519 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,

Did u found one of the site that stated CC is specially design and formulated for Working K9 and some police k9 unit in the states are using it. They use some sort of power form electrolytes to prevent dehydration and feed CC for higher protien/fat in their adult formula.

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 25, 2003, 6:40 PM

Post #46 of 87 (1518 views)
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Re: [boon] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

*Errr* ... I don't think I have seen that site ... do you have the website addy? ... thanks Smile


boon
Doggyman


Sep 25, 2003, 6:54 PM

Post #47 of 87 (1517 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

let me see if i can find it....too many urls to bookmark these day.Wink But i think u can do a quick search on CC using google. Is one of the link there.

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 25, 2003, 7:31 PM

Post #48 of 87 (1514 views)
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Re: [boon] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

ok ... found it ... and yeaps, the description is there ... Smile


boon
Doggyman


Sep 25, 2003, 7:37 PM

Post #49 of 87 (1513 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

looks good right ? hehehe can't wait to put my monkey fully on CC.

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 25, 2003, 7:43 PM

Post #50 of 87 (1512 views)
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Re: [boon] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile ... yes - looks real good ... all the best with the new kibble ... keep us updated ...


boon
Doggyman


Sep 25, 2003, 8:00 PM

Post #51 of 87 (1795 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

WinkSmile

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


Riccaval
ALPHA


Sep 25, 2003, 9:10 PM

Post #52 of 87 (1791 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

SmileAdvertising contents deleted.


(This post was edited by Admin on Sep 26, 2003, 6:14 AM)


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 25, 2003, 9:17 PM

Post #53 of 87 (1788 views)
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Re: [Riccaval] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks ... will check it out ... Smile


cdmoo
ALPHA


Sep 26, 2003, 12:44 AM

Post #54 of 87 (1770 views)
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Re: [surchinmy & boon & riccaval] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

Gentlemen,

I'm lost.. so.. which one is better?

Smile
regards,

CD Moo





boon
Doggyman


Sep 26, 2003, 1:13 AM

Post #55 of 87 (1767 views)
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Re: [cdmoo] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

uncle rex Tongue

the answer is rule number 1. no one brand that suite all, choose what good for ur boy and easily available.

Since ur ah boy is not doing that well in B2B .

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


cdmoo
ALPHA


Sep 26, 2003, 1:54 AM

Post #56 of 87 (1760 views)
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Re: [boon] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

ha.. i know that golden rule..Smile

But amongst the 3 brands .. which one is better? (in terms of ingredient, pricing aside)

Smile
regards,

CD Moo





surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 26, 2003, 2:11 AM

Post #57 of 87 (1758 views)
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Re: [cdmoo, boon, riccaval] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

After much confusion ... Wink

All products do not use soya or wheat. No chemical preservatives, only using vitamin based preservatives.

And only highlighting areas of differences (comparing adult food formulas only) ... it would appear as follows:


**** ...
Highest fat content of the 3 kibble

Uses Human Grade Ingredients. Contains probiotics.

Uses corn as filler (apparently corn is inferior to rice). According to report procured by Boon - Omega 3 & 6 ratio may not be so good.


**** ... Lowest protein & fat content of the 3 kibble.

Foil packing. Uses white/brown rice as filler. Uses Human Grade Ingredients (strangely this is not mentioned in their main website, but only mentioned in a subsidiary website). According to Boon's report, the Omega 3 & 6 ratio is good with high digestability (91%).

No probiotics (but note:***** claim that the inclusion of probiotics have not been scientifically proven as safe or useful).


******...
Highest protein content of the 3 kibble. The supplements appear to lean heavily in favour of coat/skin conditioning.

Uses brown/white rice as filler. Uses Human Grade Ingredients. Contains probiotics. Has large variety of meat options.

This kibble is appears to combine the strengths of **** and *****




(This post was edited by Admin on Sep 26, 2003, 6:49 AM)


boon
Doggyman


Sep 26, 2003, 8:32 AM

Post #58 of 87 (1739 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,

I know which one u r referring to....not sure u purposely put the *** or the forum admin altered your post.

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


boon
Doggyman


Sep 26, 2003, 8:37 AM

Post #59 of 87 (1737 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
**** ... Lowest protein & fat content of the 3 kibble.

Foil packing. Uses white/brown rice as filler. Uses Human Grade Ingredients (strangely this is not mentioned in their main website, but only mentioned in a subsidiary website). According to Boon's report, the Omega 3 & 6 ratio is good with high digestability (91%).

No probiotics (but note:***** claim that the inclusion of probiotics have not been scientifically proven as safe or useful).


the policek9.com is not their subsidiary website. is one of the independent body/consultant that train,conduct seminars and sell k9 related equipments for Police K9 unit.......and their vendor for kibble is CC. take a look at their vendor list under nutrition section http://www.policek9.com/vendors.html

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 26, 2003, 8:45 AM

Post #60 of 87 (1734 views)
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Re: [boon] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

... ah ... okay ... thanks for the web address ... Smile


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 26, 2003, 10:26 AM

Post #61 of 87 (1725 views)
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Re: [boon] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

... the *** put by Big Brother ... Smile


boon
Doggyman


Sep 26, 2003, 4:32 PM

Post #62 of 87 (1722 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

huh....don get what u r trying to say lah Blush

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 26, 2003, 5:58 PM

Post #63 of 87 (1717 views)
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Re: [boon] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile ... you wrote: " ... not sure u purposely put the *** or the forum admin altered your post."

The administrator (as in Big Brother ... Laugh) deleted the "names" and substituted with (*****) ...


boon
Doggyman


Sep 26, 2003, 6:00 PM

Post #64 of 87 (1716 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

oh...macam itu.....TongueWink

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Sep 26, 2003, 6:13 PM

Post #65 of 87 (1711 views)
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Re: [boon] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

... Maybe not such a good idea to discuss kibble in such detail over forum ... don't want to upset the sponser or anyone ... otherwise they cancel sponsership then ... kaput ... Pirate

You can email me at surchinmy@yahoo.com ...

Cheers ... Smile


boon
Doggyman


Sep 26, 2003, 6:34 PM

Post #66 of 87 (1708 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

ok sure....

do come and join is in out up coming gathering in KK on 24th October. then we can have a nice chat about all these Wink

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


Terry
K9 Kaki


Oct 1, 2003, 7:37 AM

Post #67 of 87 (1693 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

My GR is now 8 months old. Is it time to switch from puppy to adult kibbles ?

TerryCrazy


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Oct 1, 2003, 7:47 AM

Post #68 of 87 (1692 views)
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Re: [Terry] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi ... Smile

How is your GR size-wise ??? Height & weight?

Did you get a chance to see the sire or dam? ... If so, how does your GR compare to parents size-wise at 8 months?


sweeeng
ALPHA


Oct 1, 2003, 5:51 PM

Post #69 of 87 (1683 views)
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Re: [Terry] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

Some ppl says that you can still feed the dog with puppy food until it's bout 1.5 years old...

Regards,
Sweeeng


boon
Doggyman


Oct 1, 2003, 6:27 PM

Post #70 of 87 (1682 views)
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Re: [sweeeng] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

i don recomend that, as if u keep feeding the puppy formula (high in protein) till the pup is about 18 - 20 months old, i scared that the pup is growing too fast and eventually will have some problem with joint and bone density. I stop feeding my Bonney puppy formula when she turn 1. in fact is will be ok to switch them as early as 6 months old of age. You do not need to worry about they won't reach their full size if u switch the formula too early.

The size of how big the pup can be is bone with it and it only take a little bing longer got them to reach their full size. i do think that this is ok, if compare to have a pup suffer from all joint problems.

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


nathalie
Doggyman


Oct 2, 2003, 8:40 AM

Post #71 of 87 (1671 views)
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Re: [Terry] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

SmileHi,

Well, do u think ur dog is up to his optimum size? If not then u might consider carrying on with puppy food but if u want to maintain it or overweigh liao, then switch when he's 1Smile


boon
Doggyman


Oct 6, 2003, 6:23 AM

Post #72 of 87 (1657 views)
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Re: [nathalie] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

i don think so. this is TOTALLY the wrong concept of whether swtiching from puppy formula based on whether the dog is already fully grown.

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


Terry
K9 Kaki


Oct 6, 2003, 6:52 PM

Post #73 of 87 (1653 views)
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Re: [nathalie] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

I do not know what his optimum size should be. He has strong bone structures and he is an US breed which is generally bigger.

Terry


hunter
Ultra ALPHA


Oct 7, 2003, 3:11 AM

Post #74 of 87 (1648 views)
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Re: [Terry] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

hi terry

billy will grow to his optimum size irregardless of when you switch to adult food. if u give puppy food too long it'll mean the dog will be growing too fast thus leading to hips and bones problems.

if u change to adult food early (meaning before the dog has fully grown), what i've learnt from surchinmy and boon is that the growing process still continues but at a slower rate if compared to giving puppy food, thus safe from the problems mentioned earlier. Sooner or later, your dog will still grow to his full size.

btw, you think he's not big enough yet? lol.





regards,
hunter


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Oct 8, 2003, 5:58 AM

Post #75 of 87 (1641 views)
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Re: [Terry, hunter, nathalie] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi ... Smile ...

We switched our male RR to adult food at about 6 months or so ... and he is just almost getting to full height at 1 year and 8 months ... We know he is "almost" full height because he has just reached 27 1/2" ... and that's just about his father's height of 28" ...

The idea is to switch ... just as they are finishing off their fastest growth period (when they do need the higher % of protein & fat available in puppy food) and move to adult food to complete their growth ...

By switching the RR to adult food ... he has taken his time to reach his growth potential with good strong bones ... and he's lean and mean ... Wink ...

Hunter is right ... switching to adult kibble does not mean the dog will not achieve full growth potential - or be stunted ... (that will only happen if you put dog on starvation diet) ... For medium to large dogs ... slower growth rate is better ... slower growth rate allows the bones to harden & thicken as they grow - while fast growth can produce soft knuckles & weak joints ...

A slower growth rate also helps avoid problems with "growing pains".

Cheers Smile


(This post was edited by surchinmy on Oct 8, 2003, 6:07 AM)


Terry
K9 Kaki


Oct 8, 2003, 7:59 AM

Post #76 of 87 (1159 views)
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Re: [hunter] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

Actually I thought I bought a dinosaur for a price of a GR ! No actually, I really dont care if he grows bigger or not as long as he is happy. I just wanted to know when I should stop feeding him puppy food.

TerryCool


boon
Doggyman


Oct 8, 2003, 8:46 AM

Post #77 of 87 (1154 views)
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Re: [Terry] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Terry,

How old is ur GR now ?

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


mackmack
Doggyman


Oct 8, 2003, 7:56 PM

Post #78 of 87 (1148 views)
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Re: [Terry] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

It will take 2 yrs for GR to be fully grown, but you may try to mix puppyfood with adult food at 1.5 yr and then switch totally to adult food at yr 2.


--I have Howling Bean and Lazy Mack.--


hunter
Ultra ALPHA


Oct 8, 2003, 8:33 PM

Post #79 of 87 (1146 views)
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Re: [Terry] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

lol,

anyway, for hunter i switched to adult food once he turned 1. i've read somewhere about goldens and they said switch to adult food at 1.



regards,
hunter


boon
Doggyman


Oct 8, 2003, 10:01 PM

Post #80 of 87 (1141 views)
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Re: [hunter] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

Hahhahaah, 6 to 8 months is a good time for doing so.

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


hunter
Ultra ALPHA


Oct 9, 2003, 1:08 AM

Post #81 of 87 (1137 views)
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Re: [boon] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

really kah?

last time ppl also asked me to switch food at 6 months but NOOO i wanted to make hunter grow big big big :/

i guess since the growth rate will only slow down and not get affected.. 6-8months should be best to switch to adult food.


boon
Doggyman


Oct 9, 2003, 1:12 AM

Post #82 of 87 (1136 views)
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Re: [hunter] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

when i'm not aware of this, i switched my bonney to adult when she is 13 months i think.

My next all will be 6 to 8 months. Depend.

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


nathalie
Doggyman


Oct 14, 2003, 9:17 AM

Post #83 of 87 (1127 views)
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Re: [boon] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

SmileHi,

i remember bringin the lab to the vet n he told me that she's overweight when she's around 13 moths n i told him she's still fed with puppy food...so he asked me to instead change to adult food coz she's almost fully grown n overweightSmile


nathalie
Doggyman


Oct 14, 2003, 9:21 AM

Post #84 of 87 (1127 views)
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Re: [Terry] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

SmileHi,

i suppose according to the standard....Crazy


nathalie
Doggyman


Oct 14, 2003, 9:22 AM

Post #85 of 87 (1127 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

SmileHi,

tahnks for ur advice..that's what the vet told me


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Oct 14, 2003, 9:33 AM

Post #86 of 87 (1125 views)
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Re: [nathalie] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

most welcome ... Cheers ... Smile


nathalie
Doggyman


Oct 15, 2003, 7:53 AM

Post #87 of 87 (1114 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Odd Lab behavior - lethargy, non-interest in food, lazy [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile

 
 




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