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Mange





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jaz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 22, 2003, 1:33 AM

Post #51 of 341 (15965 views)
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Re: [cshellz] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post
Wah lau... but does it really works?? I think it's really not save to do so lor....


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 22, 2003, 1:58 AM

Post #52 of 341 (15963 views)
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Re: [ginl, cshellz] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post
Great news all round ... good to hear all the doggies improving ... SmileSmileSmile

cheers


ginl
ALPHA


Aug 22, 2003, 5:03 AM

Post #53 of 341 (15959 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post
Thanks....mine wasn't that severe....it was coz he had a fun time ransacking the garbage that's why Crazy


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 22, 2003, 7:49 AM

Post #54 of 341 (15953 views)
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Re: [ALL] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi all ...

Hope the "Lemon Tonic" ... works for everyone ... but just in case ... here are some homeopathic alternatives to combat Dermo Mange:

1. Herbs for Pets – Mary L Wulf-Tilford & Gregory L Tilford

Dermodectic mange, or red mange (genus Demodex) is a mite that infects hair follicles, often causing hair loss and a foul-smelling bacterial infection of the skin … Fortunately, herbal measures can be quite effective against various forms of mange. The foremost herb to consider is garlic. Mites don’t tolerate sulphur compounds and garlic contains hundreds of them (which is why garlic smells like it does).

Using olive oil as a base … add garlic oil and Vitamin E oil … (make sure its not too concentrated or it may cause irritation), and apply to affected areas.

2. Veterinarians’ Guide to Natural Remedies – Martin Zucker

Neem oil: Use a washcloth soaked in warm water to cleanse the affected areas. Then gently rub the Neem oil into the skin morning and evening. Caution: Do not use the Neem oil around the eyes.

3. The Complete Herbal Handbook for the Dog & Cat – Juliette de Bairacli Levy

Slice up about 20 cloves of garlic and finely cut 2 handfuls of elder leaves & stalks. Place all in a pan with one quart of cold water. Bring to a boil, and simmer slowly for half an hour. Keep covered throughout. Remove from heat. Do not strain. Allow to brew for at beast 7 hours, still keeping covered.

The lotion is then ready for use. Soak large pieces of cotton or towelling in the brew and friction the entire body very well. 2 or 3 tablespoons of the brew can also be given internally early morning and at night.

Homeopathic Care for Cats & Dogs - Don Hamilton DVM says: "Conventional treatment calls for even stronger chemical (dips) than that used for sarcoptic mange. These chemicals deplete the immune system even more. I believe this is part of the reason for failure of the treatment. The answer is in building up the immune system. Fresh raw foods are essential."

Cheers Smile


ginl
ALPHA


Aug 22, 2003, 8:08 AM

Post #55 of 341 (15949 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post
Hey Surchinmy....thanks for yet another remedy for mange....garlic seems to be the weapon for all things bad huh.....i read about the neem oil too...not sure where we can get those? I've given neem supplements before though.


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 22, 2003, 8:23 AM

Post #56 of 341 (15947 views)
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Re: [ginl] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post
Hello ... Smile ...

Yeaps ... galic is amazing ... protects from mange to vampires ... Laugh ... Haven't tried the garlic remedy though ... its kinda difficult hugging a dog that smells like its soaked in a pasta sauce ... Smile ... but I do like the lemon tonic ...

Some chemists stock Neem soap (can probably use that when bathing the doggies) ... but have not seen Neem oil ... Since Neem oil/tree comes from India, maybe you can find Neem oil in a aruvedic store/centre ... or one of the shops in Brickfields or Masjid India ... will have a look see next time I am around those areas ...


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 22, 2003, 5:42 PM

Post #57 of 341 (15938 views)
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Re: [wlaiwan] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post
hi wlaiwan,

Sorry to hear about your doggie. Must have been a stressful time for u. Frown

yeah it did smell bad right? Initially I thought it was his ears and I cleaned them everyday but the smell just wouldn't go away!! glad to say he's starting to smell like a puppy again..

My puppy had his first dip last week. No choice, it was so bad his whole eye was swollen and he couldn't open much and it bled. But anyway, he's shown prograssive progress since last weekend. The vet is trying to avoid the second dip. If he skips it this weekend, i'll use the lemon solution (which has been sitting in my fridge).

I have started to give him chicken neck and liver mixed with a little kibbles plus a lot of supplements and herbs. I think the diet helps because I see new hair here and there already so I'm hopeful he's heading towards a speedy recovery.

Thanks for the advise. Been getting a lot of positive feedbacks on the lemon so I will definitely use it Smile


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 22, 2003, 5:44 PM

Post #58 of 341 (15937 views)
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Re: [jaz] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post
eeeyerrr I dare not try ler. Engine oil wor....Pirate Even if it works, Sparkle is WHITE Unsure To wash engine oil from our hands also so susah liao. Can u imagine me washing the engine oil off his white fur??? LaughLaughTongue hehehe....


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 22, 2003, 5:48 PM

Post #59 of 341 (15936 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post
hi surchinmy

Thanks for another suggestion Smile I cannot imagine my furkid walking around smelling like garlic ler (i'm starting to imagine the skunks in cartoons, when they walk pass they leave a trail of 'smoke' which is actually their odour)

If they take it orally can ah? I feed Sparkle with raw garlic cloves and brewers yeast with Garlic. Also I now steam his chicken breast with garlic also.

What is Neem actually? Leaves? Flowers?


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 22, 2003, 6:28 PM

Post #60 of 341 (15930 views)
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Re: [cshellz, ginl] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi ...

cshellz: Yeaps ... can imagine little Sparkle walking down the corridor and everyone shying away because of the smell ... CrazyTongueLaugh ...

Garlic crushed given orally is good for dogs ... just be a little careful ... not too much (depending on size) maybe 2 or 3 times a week ought to be sufficient ... too much garlic can upset the doggie ...

Neem is a tree, originates from India where its been recognised & used for ages as part of ayurvedic practice ... Apparently the entire tree is useful from bark to leaves, to seeds ... essentially recognised as a pest inhibitor ... presumably also removes/kills mites ...

Am thinking of trying out some Neem products ... will let you guys know if it's effective ...

ginl: ... Forgot to mention ...Crazy... you can find loads of Neem products on the internet ...

Salt rinse: Also forgot to mention (really getting old ...Crazy) ... salt solution ... During a shower, after completing the last rinse ... we rinse the doggies with a warm salt solution (we use sea-salt) - gently rubbing into the skin ... a mild salt solution is a very gentle & mild antiseptic ... and this helps reducing itching, heals minor cuts and keeps their skin healthy ...

Cheers all ...


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 22, 2003, 6:39 PM

Post #61 of 341 (15931 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post
I give 1 small clove about twice a week to Sparkle. Smile

Hey salt rinse! Which reminds me...when I was young and had chicken pox, my mum used to soak me in the Deep Sea salts. Very very nice ler....esp when body is itchy. Maybe that can help him too. But i'll only use if when doc announces that he doesn't need dip #2. What say u? Smile

Oh, how about seawater? U think that's advisable?


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 22, 2003, 7:50 PM

Post #62 of 341 (15925 views)
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Re: [cshellz] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post
Hello ...

For Sparkle's size - one clove twice a week sounds about right ... maybe try 3 times a week for 2 weeks - to build up, then reduce back to twice a week ...

Yeah, salt rinse sheoook!!! neh Laugh ... very comforting Smile...

Many people swear by sea water ... but the sea near us isn't all that clean anymore ...Unsure... And if the sea is dirty, I'd probably want to rinse my dog in clean water after they play in the sea ... to get rid of the pollutants ...

Difference btwn lemon & salt solution: I think the basic difference between the lemon solution and salt solution is this ... the lemon solution can be astringent (strong) ... the salt solution is much more gentle ... so, we only use lemon when necessary ... For general care, we like the salt solution and even use salt solution to wipe paws & clean ears etc ...

You asked : ... But i'll only use if when doc announces that he doesn't need dip #2. What say u?

Actually, I guess I've been kinda hedging around the issue of the medicated dip for Sparkle ... It's so hard to say via posting ... afraid of miscommunicating & upseting you ... but I think I should try ... here goes ...

Please ... this is only my view & I don't mean to upset you or your vet ...

I would seriously consider whether or not to put Sparkle through another medicated dip ... maybe instead of the 2nd medicated dip ... go straight to the lemon solution and try that instead ... The medicated dip has made some improvement - good ... now try and let the homeopatic method take over ...

Ginl posted 2 methods of preparing the lemon solution (one stronger & one milder) … maybe you can use the stronger preparation first … observe carefully … if there is improvement and the improvement continues – then switch to the milder solution …

Juliette de Bairacli Levy's method from "The Complete Herbal Handbook for the Dog & Cat": This is a stronger preparation.

"Save all used lemon halves and place in a gallon container, at least 24 halves to the gallon. Place the jar or container in the hot sunlight or pour hot water over the lemon. let the lemon remain in the water until pieces begin to turn mouldy, then remove and replace with fresh ones, squeezing hard the old ones into the water. Do not throw away any of the old lemon water which then remains. Rub the lemon potion into all parts of the dog's body to expel the skin vermin. When pomegranates are available, the peel can be added to this lemon lotion with great advantage. Use the skins from three pomegranates to every nine lemons. (keep jar covered with a paper top -not greased paper)"

*** I think Juliette recommends paper top because the mixture needs air (oxygen) to ferment & for the d-limonene, which is a cleansing oil, to dissolve into the water …

Pircairn's method ... for preparing the lemon solution is the mild solution.

"1 lemon whole lemon sliced thinly ... bring 1 pint water to near boil add lemons, let steep overnight. Sponge on once a day."



I think what wlaiwan did was so good … It would be lovely to get Sparkle well without the chemicals, medicated dips are poisons, and depending on what/how its being used, can be very strong … this is especially a concern when the doggie is young & still growing … the lemon solution is natural and less toxic … Smile

If the lemon solution and freshly prepared food doesn't work ... then okay ... you have no choice ... use the medicated dips ...

Cheers …


ginl
ALPHA


Aug 22, 2003, 9:02 PM

Post #63 of 341 (15922 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post
The last time when his skin got really bad (that's when i got the holistic remedy) i gave him a lot of supplements...i wasnt even sure that i was overdosing him or not but out of desperation i gave what i cud give and what was available at that time....i was giving him the lemon bath daily, neem alternating with dandelion supplements, chlorella, echinacea + antioxidants, swedish bitter, bach flower remedy of crab apple, Velcote for skin n coat and on top of that he was on homeopathic meds, Sulphur 30c and Lycopodium 1M.....he got much better after 2 weeks Smile

Now i'm only giving him velcote, swedish bitter and the 'magical herbs' that was mentioned in here and on and off he will also hv breakouts but not as severe as before.

Oh but before all this he was on dips....baaaddd stuff....each dip he was on a sedation stage for the next 2 to 3 days.


(This post was edited by ginl on Aug 22, 2003, 9:04 PM)


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 22, 2003, 10:01 PM

Post #64 of 341 (15915 views)
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Re: [ginl] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post
... Oh yes ... know exactly what you mean ... dip the dog ... and then for next couple of days ... the dog is like ... "blur blur" ... And I felt so bad I refused to wear gloves ... if my doggie kena, I kena also lar ... (kinda stupid but what else to do ... Unsure) ... So now no more dips, no more steroids etc ... Explained to our vets, and they agree ... even providing vets with alternative remedies for dermo mange ... Tongue ...

Now, just feed good food, make sure floor is clean (all floor shampoo properly rinsed off) ... rinse/wipe with salt solution regularly ... and ... taaaa daaaah ... everything much better ... *touch wood*...


wlaiwan
Dog Kichi


Aug 22, 2003, 10:04 PM

Post #65 of 341 (15915 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post
Hie there

Thanks a lot. I am still working on her well being -every now and then I have to deal with recurring skin problems, eye tearing etc. But I see that she is more active and happier then she ever was. That's very comforting.

Yes, think about it.. We have to wear gloves and it's okay on our doggies? No way right? I am sure I don't want my doggie to smell of chemical.

Irresponsible in-breeding has resulted in compromised immune system on the poor fellow. So I am learning whatever I can to equip myself when the need arises.

Hmm do you have any remedies for excessive tearing? Sidnee has this persistent problem with her eyes - it went away for a while but these days I see signs of recurrence. Also, it's redish.

Oh yes, probiotics. I put her on OMX (for human consumption) when I first started and recently her vet recommended BioBuster. She seems to be doing well on this. Are you using any probiotics on your doggies?

What about supplements?

Cheers
wlaiwan , sidnee, shino + rufus


wlaiwan
Dog Kichi


Aug 22, 2003, 10:14 PM

Post #66 of 341 (15914 views)
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Re: [cshellz] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post
Hie

Yes, it was very stressful. And she was only 4 months old then. I just got her from a pet store and not even 2 weeks, she had all these troubles. On hindsight, I knew now why she smelt when I got her. But she recovered fast - even the vet told me he was surprised. Initially they predicted a 6-month recovery period after checking her. And the strong girl managed it in 2 months Cool .

The lemon solution works very well. Now I use it on her every 2 to 3 days. If you see any new signs of mange or those stubborn parts, use fresh lemon juice. Undiluted, it works very well. And your doggie smells nice after that Smile

Do keep us up with your progress.
Speedy recovery
wlaiwan, sidnee, shino + rufus


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 22, 2003, 10:26 PM

Post #67 of 341 (15913 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post
hiya!

hehehe I should soak in the tub together with Sparkle!! Kill two birds with one stone! Tongue

I already prepared the mild solution. It's now sitting in the fridge because Gina reminded me that he's already been dipped so washing with the lemon solution would mean washing all the stuff off. This weekend is his 6th weeks in a row visit to the vet. I have discussed with the vet on the phone about his progress and he's very supportive of skipping the second dip. In fact he was reluctant with the first one too but I guess Sparkle's condition was very bad at that time.

So hopefully this weekend Sparkle will rely entirely on the lemon solutions.

Like Gina I'm also giving Sparkle Sulphur 30c. Still continuing with Echinecea & Astragalus, Cod Liver Oil, Nutricoat, Brewers Yeast & Garlic, Licorice, Vitamin C, Multi Carotene and the 'magical herbs' hehehe...

I'm adding the supplements on very small dosage so I presume it's ok.

It's only been less than 1 week after his dip and I must say I'm very happy with his progress!! I see new hair sprouting every day Cool


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 22, 2003, 10:30 PM

Post #68 of 341 (15913 views)
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Re: [ginl] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post
how does sweedish bitter taste like? Bitter? Ah cuit will take it ah? Shocked

ya lor the dips. BAD Mad If only I got a confirmation on his condition or if only I knew more about the tell tale signs earlier I could have prevented it Frown

He was like high for 3 days. Turn on some rave music, dim the lights and put some flashing lights I think he'd start to feng tau Unimpressed


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 22, 2003, 10:39 PM

Post #69 of 341 (15907 views)
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Re: [wlaiwan] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post
hi there Smile

Will keep the fresh lemon juice in mind Smile hehe I think he'll smell like the he'd just been washed with lemon scented dish washing liquid LaughLaugh

It's not easy having a dog with problematic skin huh? I've had to deal with Sparkle's skin condition(S) many many times already and he's only coming to 7 months old. Pirate

Have you tried to massage Sidnee's tear ducts? My pup had that problem too when he was younger and I read somewhere that if you massage their tear ducts it will help and it did for Sparkle!

Mind to tell us more about probiotics? I've heard of it but am quite clueless about it.....just like I'm still very new to Homeopathic stuff Unsure

What supplements do u give to ur furkids?


jaz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 22, 2003, 10:59 PM

Post #70 of 341 (15902 views)
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Re: [cshellz] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post
True.. My dog use to like to sleep underneath the car.... once he's out... totally black in color man!!! ahahha!!! Smile


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 22, 2003, 11:40 PM

Post #71 of 341 (15898 views)
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Re: [wlaiwan, cshellz, ginl] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi ...

You wrote: " ... Hmm do you have any remedies for excessive tearing? Sidnee has this persistent problem with her eyes - it went away for a while but these days I see signs of recurrence. Also, it's reddish."

Some breeds tend to tear more then others & some breeds are more prone to eye conditions. Sorry ... not sure if you mentioned it before, but what is Sidnee's breed? ...

Most eye conditions I have come across are usually the result of environmental factors ... allergies and such that causes the eye to tear. Check Sidnee's eyes ... (leave the redness aside for the moment) ...

Are the corneas clear? ... And what kind of discharge? ...

If the corneas are generally clear and the discharge is also clear ... then the condition may not be serious ...

If Sidnee is producing a watery eye discharge (not thick, yellow or pus-like) ... then his eyes may just need cleaning regularly. Some animals have tear overflow caused by blocked tear ducts or mild allergies. Try cleaning the eyes twice a day with a warm solution of salt water. The salt solution is a very mild disinfectant ... and is great for general care.

If the discharge is thick or yellow then that may be sign of infection and you really need a vet ... Eye problems can be serious and early treatment required.

Will do more checking and let you know if I find anything else.

Probiotics: *Ah* ... will check out this OMX thingy, thanks ... I use probiotics too but from a more basic source ... I give the doggies "Vitagen" ... and natural yoghurt ... both of which have useful bacteria good for the digestive system ...

Supplements: Have a word with cshellz or ginl ... they use a brand of herbal supplement that I find very good ... and this brand produces a really wide range of supplements ... good quality & effective ...

But generally, I am also trying to balance the diet so that supplements are minimal ... I try to use natural supplements ... from reading and such, I think natural/homeopatic supplements are more readily absorbed by the doggies ...

You also wrote: " ... Irresponsible in-breeding has resulted in compromised immune system on the poor fellow ..."

*Aaaah* this is my next favourite gripe ... *Laugh ... cannot abide people who breed irresponsibly ... especially people who breed to sell for profit & don't really care ... they don't care what or how they breed, they don't care who they sell their dogs to, they don't care what happens to their puppies after ... they just don't care ...

> Cshellz: You wanna start new thread on this ... *LOL* ...

> Cshellz: "Like Gina I'm also giving Sparkle Sulphur 30c. Still continuing with Echinecea & Astragalus, Cod Liver Oil, Nutricoat, Brewers Yeast & Garlic, Licorice, Vitamin C, Multi Carotene and the 'magical herbs' hehehe ... I'm adding the supplements on very small dosage so I presume it's ok."

Smile ... hello hello ... is there any supplement for coat that you have left out? ... Ah yes ... evening primrose oil ... If you are not careful, Sparkle will look like a Komondor ... LaughLaughLaugh ...

But seriously, maybe too many different supplements at one time ... Smile ... even if you say you are giving in small dosage ... small dose of so many dosages become big dose ... maybe not so good ... and then also you won't know which supplement is really working ...

I would be careful with Vitamin C ... a dog' glandular system is different from ours, we cannot produce our own vitamin C - dogs can.

Quote: "Supplemental vitamin C has been clinically tested and proven to cause problems. One test conducted in 1980, by Teare et al., showed that supplemental vitamin C can aggravate skeletal disease ... The test by Teare et al. is shown on page 38 in the US Government National Research Council's publication, Nutrient Requirements of Dogs - Revised 1985. That single NRC publication cites 24 test done with vitamin C and dogs. The 24 test were done to find out if dog food should contain any vitamin C. The conclusion the members of the National Research Council drew from all of those test was that dog food should not not contain any vitamin C."

Suggest you stick with the correct "magical herbs" & supplements to boost general immune system for the moment ... Don't worry about coat boosters ... let Sparkle concentrate on getting healthy & strong ... Smile ... once the immune system is strong ... then you can work out the supplements for the coat ...

Cheers all


ginl
ALPHA


Aug 23, 2003, 12:13 AM

Post #72 of 341 (15894 views)
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Re: [cshellz] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post
It tastes like cough medicine Crazy.... Swedish Bitter contains a combination of herbs suggested to help cleanse the system, promote regularity, improve digestion, soothe the system, tone the liver, and increase energy. It can be used internally as well as externally....if you hv a cut or any external injury, application of swedish bitter will quicken the healing process. I only give him a few drops a day...by itself he doesnt like it but drop in his food doesnt make much difference to him so not a problem so far...i'm also taking it daily....it really helped me coz i used to get cold and flu quite easily but since taking it never had a cold at all even though someone elses has and comes near me Laugh


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 23, 2003, 12:32 AM

Post #73 of 341 (15892 views)
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Re: [surchinmy] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post
They already have many threads talking about irresponsible breeding ler...check out "Breeding & Whelping" Smile

hehehe it does seem like Sparkle is one lucky dog eh? Everything also give!! Evening Primrose oil? no wor...didn't think of giving him that. hehe but I do give him Salmon Omega 3 once a week. Blush

Vitamin C I give every other day not everyday. And this is only temporary. You think I should stop? I mean, taking apples and fruits also got Vit C rite?

Sparkle look like a komondor? hehehe yah wait till his fine fur grows long enough then take him for dredlocks then maybe will start to resemble the komondor....kekekek LaughLaugh

btw, how do ppl take care of the komondor's coat??? Shocked


cshellz
Ultra ALPHA


Aug 23, 2003, 12:36 AM

Post #74 of 341 (15890 views)
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Re: [ginl] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post
ah cuit dead fish and rubbish also sapu, what's a few drops of weird tasting liquid?? he da man!! Cool


surchinmy
Ultra ALPHA

Aug 23, 2003, 12:47 AM

Post #75 of 341 (15886 views)
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Re: [cshellz] Mange [In reply to] Can't Post
Yeaps, fruits & apples good enough ... better not to give vitamin-c supplement ... apparently it can cause skeletal problems, liver & kidney problems ... etc etc ... Check out this website ... http://home.att.net/~wdcusick/013.html ... never knew something like vit-c can be so deadly ... *Crazy*

Q: btw, how do ppl take care of the komondor's coat???

They don't ... the Komondor's coat tangles up naturally as it matures ... starts off straight and fine when puppy ... then as it grows older its starts to look like it has Whoopi Goldberg for a stepmother ... A Komondor owner told me that it takes 3 full days (in summer) to wash & dry his dog ... And we think we have coat problems ... *hah* ...

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