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wildgunsr
Dog Kichi

Sep 30, 2003, 5:46 PM

Post #101 of 251 (7202 views)
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Re: [boon] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

nope I'm from Klang :), just from word of mouth I hear that there lots of dog breeders in the nothern regions but not central.

PSD, who's Nick? Wink


boon
Doggyman


Sep 30, 2003, 7:13 PM

Post #102 of 251 (7199 views)
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Re: [wildgunsr] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

lots of dog breeders ? hahaha not much lah if compare to Ipoh area and surrounding.

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Sep 30, 2003, 8:01 PM

Post #103 of 251 (7198 views)
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Re: [wildgunsr] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

Howdy wildgunsr,

It's wonderful U can joined us here !

Quote : "Spoke to one of the forum members Wink here and was told to try contacting Polluxx"

Hey ! when did I become a "Breeder Directory"..? Shocked

I happened to find out recently that the board has a very strict rules in soliciting for business Tongue...so ahem ! ....so better not get involved in the comercial side of thing ! Wink, anyway U can contact me thru my e-mail ,(do chk out my earlier post !)

BTW wildgunsr, have U ever oned a GSD b4 ? , could U tell us what attract U to workingline GSD in the 1st place ? maybe U can pose query like ur exoected puppy's pedigree, bloodlines, temperament etc on this board, I'm sure there will be a few member on board who can offer their valuable advice...! Cool






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Sep 30, 2003, 8:20 PM

Post #104 of 251 (7196 views)
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Re: [boon] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Boon,

Yup ! socialization is the key for young pups ....! I believe U r rite too , keeping them too long wt their littermates, they will be come too doggy ! But I think it is still ok to separate them when they r alredi 10-12 wks old . . . they will still bond wt us as long as we play &, feed & socialise wt them consistently ! Wink

Anything beyond 3 mths , well I'm not too sure...! Crazy

I thk the above r norms, I have heard of exception cases like when police k9 switching handlers & this k9 will still bond wt the new handler after a while even though he/she might have been wt the old handler from young. Maybe the key lies wt the feeding, playing & working together for a considerable period of time will make the k9 feel that they r member of the pack...! Tongue

PSD might be able to shed some light on this...! Smile






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Sep 30, 2003, 8:29 PM

Post #105 of 251 (7194 views)
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Re: [PSD] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi PSD,

Quote:

"If you meant to tire out the dog then take for a 1 mile walk at this age and a 2 mile jog from 1.5 yrs.Smile "

Yup..that's wht I did but only for half a mile only....I, myself cannot tahan 1 mile of walk...la....Laugh...pai-seh...Blush ! ...Ok-ok , Nxt time have to remind myself to work-out 1st, b4 getting another pup (especially a working line GSD), ......LOL ! Tongue !



Polluxx






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


PSD
ALPHA


Sep 30, 2003, 8:50 PM

Post #106 of 251 (7191 views)
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Re: [Boon, Colin, Wildgunsr,Polluxx] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
I thk the above r norms, I have heard of exception cases like when police k9 switching handlers & this k9 will still bond wt the new handler after a while even though he/she might have been wt the old handler from young. Maybe the key lies wt the feeding, playing & working together for a considerable period of time will make the k9 feel that they r member of the pack...! Tongue


Any dogs will do well with a handler who knows what his duties are.Laugh

Wildgunsr,

Sorry meant to type wildgunsr donno what gone into me.Tongue

Colin,

Does the training daily.

Boon,

Sorry about the sudden DCLaugh

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)

(This post was edited by PSD on Sep 30, 2003, 8:51 PM)


boon
Doggyman


Sep 30, 2003, 10:08 PM

Post #107 of 251 (7186 views)
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Re: [PSD] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi PSD,

heheheh no problem, ur laptop got exploded or burst ?TongueWink

in this case the handler must be experience to handle the dog if they change their partner from time to time ? or ................load me some info plsBlush

Boon - I Love Fast Dogs That Hit Hard
You Ask Me To Fight For You, I Give You Freedom & Protection And Then You Question The Manner In Which I Provide It, I'd Rather You Just Said -- "Thank You" --


PSD
ALPHA


Sep 30, 2003, 11:50 PM

Post #108 of 251 (7182 views)
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Re: [boon] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

Boon,

Dogs are social animals. The respond to human emotions and can detect human emotions better than any human can. They are also pack animals. If you manage to establish your self as a pack leader that is consistent yet firm and fair, you should be able to retain the pack position without prob.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


wildgunsr
Dog Kichi

Oct 1, 2003, 6:09 AM

Post #109 of 251 (7168 views)
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Re: [Polluxx] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

Cool

In Reply To
BTW wildgunsr, have U ever oned a GSD b4 ? , could U tell us what attract U to workingline GSD in the 1st place ? maybe U can pose query like ur exoected puppy's pedigree, bloodlines, temperament etc on this board, I'm sure there will be a few member on board who can offer their valuable advice...! Cool



Yup I've owned (my dad actually) 3 GSDs, two fr working line and one show line. The showline was so dumb that it got stolen. Need i say more as to why I want working line? Now see, the expected pedigree is my biggest prob. I don't ask for much just one with sire and dam with a Koerklasse I, VA, IPO, FH, PSP II, SchH III, and ZPr. Yes I know, I'm dreaming...Blush Frown

What's the diff. bet. bloodlines and pedigree? Wouldn't they be the same? As for temperament, dominant dogs are a big no no, a hard dog with sufficient drives. And the intelligence to know that not every running/moving object is a prey. Only strike on command. Basically I want a guard/protection dog. My parents are getting old, crime rates ain't going down. Thus, I'm leaving my options open. Either an adult bitch (potential breeding) or a puppy.

Getting adult dogs are a bit more tough, in my opinion, the pedigree/bloodline can be top notch, but if the dog was trained in a screwed up manner, God have mercy on the poor ppl that comes into it's path, you would end up with a screwed up dog, who's constantly confused/afraid. CrazyMad

This by no means that a puppy would be easier, the commitment to the well being, both mentally and physically is of paramount importance, as I do not want any pup that comes into my home to end up a vegetable because of my doing. The commitment for training and health would definitely be higher, as imprinting and basics are instilled then. Alot of work oooohhhhh CrazyCool

Therefore, I'm still keeping my option open. reading about pedigrees and trying to get in touch with as many working line trainers/breeders. The two foreign sites that i frequent are www.leerburg.com and www.k9kamp.com, these two knows what their doing. Ed Frawley is one tough no nonsense dude. Pirate

regards.


(This post was edited by wildgunsr on Oct 1, 2003, 6:24 AM)


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Oct 1, 2003, 7:03 AM

Post #110 of 251 (7164 views)
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Re: [wildgunsr] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi wildgunsr,

Quote:
"Yup I've owned (my dad actually) 3 GSDs, two fr working line and one show line."
===================================
So U currently owned 2 workingline GSD ? so where did U get ur workingline GSD . .? ?


Quote:
"I don't ask for much just one with sire and dam with a Koerklasse I, VA, IPO, FH, PSP II, SchH III, and ZPr. "
=====================================
Wht I look for in GSD is KKL1 for temperament & working drv ! Wink


Quote:
"What's the diff. bet. bloodlines and pedigree? Wouldn't they be the same?
=====================================
Of course there r difference ! ! Laugh, every individual dog temperament is difference, take for example if we were to compare the working GSD from DDR wt Czech, well generally speaking the Czech line should be harder & have more rank issue but of course they r exception to the rule . . . that is why serious breeders study bloodline.....so when they want a certain trait to bring in to their breeding program, they will know which dog bloodline to look for....!


Quote:
"As for temperament, dominant dogs are a big no no, a hard dog with sufficient drives. And the intelligence to know that not every running/moving object is a prey. Only strike on command. Basically I want a guard/protection dog."
=====================================
Well when U go to pick up ur pup just remember not to choose the alpha pup , ok ! Tongue and as for intelligence to choose its prey . . . .well the key to this is socialisation & training ...! Basically workingline GSD is a natural good guard dog with or w/o Protection training . . . so as long we dun screw up its training , they should do just fine ! Wink


Quote :
"Thus, I'm leaving my options open. Either an adult bitch (potential breeding) or a puppy. "
=====================================
Sorry to ask this but r U planning to start a small kennel or breeding program....? Shocked ... Well first of all do u know serious workingline breeder normally will look for the most dominant dog/bitch with serious working drv for their breeding program...but U did not,Tongue ...& secondly will U be thinking of training the dog up to at least ScH 1 or even just BH level so that U will be able to evaluate his working & breeding potential ...? ...I'm not discorouging U here, but just so U know being a breeder require a life long of dedication & effort and this is especially true if U wanna be a workingline GSD breeder ...!


Quote:
"Therefore, I'm still keeping my option open. reading about pedigrees and trying to get in touch with as many working line trainers/breeders. "
=====================================
Well that's the spirit ! Tongue . . . research & read as much as possible , & if there is anything u wanna ask maybe u can pose ur query in this board so that other members who know may be able to help U , this way everybody will be able to share & learn at the same time...! Cool


Quote:
"Ed Frawley is one tough no nonsense dude."
YES..! but he is also a "Business Man"...! Wink


BTW U can e-mail at :


Polluxx






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


(This post was edited by Polluxx on Oct 1, 2003, 7:05 AM)


wildgunsr
Dog Kichi

Oct 1, 2003, 5:35 PM

Post #111 of 251 (7158 views)
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Re: [Polluxx] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
So U currently owned 2 workingline GSD ? so where did U get ur workingline GSD . .? ?
====================================================== 'I've owned' la fren...now no more. The pedigree is somewhere in my house if not already thrown away, as these dogs were kept more than 10 years back. Unimpressed

Quote:
Wht I look for in GSD is KKL1 for temperament & working drv ! Wink ================================================== Exactly!!! WinkCool


Quote:
Of course there r difference ! ! Laugh, every individual dog temperament is difference, take for example if we were to compare the working GSD from DDR wt Czech, well generally speaking the Czech line should be harder & have more rank issue but of course they r exception to the rule . . . that is why serious breeders study bloodline.....so when they want a certain trait to bring in to their breeding program, they will know which dog bloodline to look for....!
==================================================== Still doesn't explain the diff. bet. pedigree and bloodline Crazy

Quote:
Well when U go to pick up ur pup just remember not to choose the alpha pup , ok ! Tongue and as for intelligence to choose its prey . . . .well the key to this is socialisation & training ...! Basically workingline GSD is a natural good guard dog with or w/o Protection training . . . so as long we dun screw up its training , they should do just fine ! Wink
===================================================== Wink

Quote :
Sorry to ask this but r U planning to start a small kennel or breeding program....? Shocked ... Well first of all do u know serious workingline breeder normally will look for the most dominant dog/bitch with serious working drv for their breeding program...but U did not,Tongue ...& secondly will U be thinking of training the dog up to at least ScH 1 or even just BH level so that U will be able to evaluate his working & breeding potential ...? ...I'm not discorouging U here, but just so U know being a breeder require a life long of dedication & effort and this is especially true if U wanna be a workingline GSD breeder ...!
====================================================== No need to apologise mate. No I'm not ready to start a kennel, as the resources and commitment need is a 'don't pray pray' stage. Thus, not now. Maybe later when I'm more enept with the breed.

Quote:
Well that's the spirit ! Tongue . . . research & read as much as possible , & if there is anything u wanna ask maybe u can pose ur query in this board so that other members who know may be able to help U , this way everybody will be able to share & learn at the same time...! Cool
===================================================== Thanks for the encouragement Smile

Quote:
"Ed Frawley is one tough no nonsense dude."
YES..! but he is also a "Business Man"...! Wink
====================================================== I kinda sensed that as well....

BTW U can e-mail at : ============================================= You've got mail!!


Regards Wildgunsr@puppy.com.my



Polluxx
Enthusiast


Oct 1, 2003, 8:47 PM

Post #112 of 251 (7151 views)
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Re: [wildgunsr] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi wildgunsr,

Quote:
Of course there r difference ! ! Laugh, every individual dog temperament is difference, take for example if we were to compare the working GSD from DDR wt Czech, well generally speaking the Czech line should be harder & have more rank issue but of course they r exception to the rule . . . that is why serious breeders study bloodline.....so when they want a certain trait to bring in to their breeding program, they will know which dog bloodline to look for....!
==================================================== Still doesn't explain the diff. bet. pedigree and bloodline Crazy
=======================================================



PSD....where R U.....? ? ? need help here la...? Blush pai seh..!



Polluxx






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


PSD
ALPHA


Oct 1, 2003, 9:28 PM

Post #113 of 251 (7147 views)
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Re: [Polluxx] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

Polluxx,

Having prob with my laptop lah! Almost explode already....Tongue

I think you handled the forum pretty well here Sly

Anyway this is my comment.

Pedigree and bloodline means nothing if the dog is shitty. You should see what you want from the dog you plan to get. If it is for guard reason, get one that has the drives to do the work. In 8 weeks puppy many things can be seen with good pair of eyes already.

Secondly, big dog or puppy?

big dog everything can be seen. Puppy is only as good as your training + Genetics. Get the best genetically abled dog with wrong training and handling will become fear biter. While if I have a fair dog who is soft, I can still make it into a serious working dog that does the job perfectly. So before you go and get the best of the best, see our own level and honestly evaluate our ownself first. Then decide on the dog.

For a beginer, put pedigree and bloodlines aside. Good bloodlines too have many bad dogs. Get one with good temprement, medium or low dominance and good prey drive (for sports person). Learn from this dog and once your level is up then you can attempt extreeme dogs. Don't go the other way around else you get bitten in the buttocks Tongue

Breeding should never be attempted no matter how nice the pedigree is unless the dog is fully tested in its working drives, hip scored and approved by experienced person.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)

(This post was edited by PSD on Oct 1, 2003, 9:34 PM)


PSD
ALPHA


Oct 1, 2003, 9:49 PM

Post #114 of 251 (7145 views)
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Re: [wildgunsr, Polluxx] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
"I don't ask for much just one with sire and dam with a Koerklasse I, VA, IPO, FH, PSP II, SchH III, and ZPr. "


There are some good bitches whom are not titled, this is only a guide. My advice is to see the puppy and his behaviour to know what you definately get. Parents is just an estimated guess.


Quote
"As for temperament, dominant dogs are a big no no, a hard dog with sufficient drives. And the intelligence to know that not every running/moving object is a prey. Only strike on command. Basically I want a guard/protection dog."


To get a good guard dog you need them to be civil and defense oriented. No need extensive prey inprints. As long as the dog has good temprement with a degree of sharpness will be a good guard dog.
4-6 months puppies will show those traits already. A guard dog primary objective is to scare away the potential crook. To teach the dog to bite a man is all together another thing. It is not a fad. This comes with responsibility or you will end up with a lawsuit. You need to have perfect control over the dog at all times in all situations. This needs special training and special handling ability. No short cuts, handler must be willing to spend time and efforts here.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)

(This post was edited by PSD on Oct 1, 2003, 10:00 PM)


wildgunsr
Dog Kichi

Oct 1, 2003, 10:36 PM

Post #115 of 251 (7137 views)
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Re: [PSD] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

SmileThe great one has spoken. Cool

You said all the keywords man, observation, a keen eye, guestimation from parents...all these when selecting a puppy. what bout when selecting a dog?

When I do get one, can I call upon any of you "PSD, Azman and Polluxx" to help me test/select? Seriously, what kind of eye does this Apek has lah? Besides your typical china apek eyes (in fact, i think they have nicer eyes)?

What are the chances of the breeder/trainer letting you make a copy of the pedigree for you to do some research? Anybody can PM me to tell me where I can find excellent breeders that won't really mind me.

If you have to ask you most prolly can't afford itPirateCrazy: but heck I'm gonna ask anyway, What's the normal budget for a well bred working GSD? Smile


Kowpa
Member

Oct 1, 2003, 11:04 PM

Post #116 of 251 (7134 views)
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Re: [wildgunsr] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

R u serious in getting a working dog a train one or untrain with title or without and what is your budget tis is important is my answer


wildgunsr
Dog Kichi

Oct 1, 2003, 11:10 PM

Post #117 of 251 (7133 views)
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Re: [Kowpa] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

there are pros and cons to getting a trained or untrained dog. Titles are just tittles, they mean nothing. What I want is the drives, temparaments and soundness of the dog.My options remain open until the day I find the right dog, be it a pup or a dog. The fundamentals are more important than the age of the dog.Smile

As seen before, show dogs are also tittled, but when push comes to shove, rarely are they up to it.

If you wish to send anything commercial i suggest you email me at wildgunsr@puppy.com.my

Regards Cool


PSD
ALPHA


Oct 2, 2003, 12:34 AM

Post #118 of 251 (7127 views)
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Re: [wildgunsr] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
SmileThe great one has spoken. Cool


Who? Where??Shocked


Quote
You said all the keywords man, observation, a keen eye, guestimation from parents...all these when selecting a puppy. what bout when selecting a dog?


When selecting puppy do puppy test, when selecting dog do dog test loh! Tongue OK! seriously, I don't know what you are really looking for. Different types of dog test for diffrent situation. In order not to go too far ahead I would generalise that we want to see confidence in a dog, good nerve and temprement and clear headedness. React only under threat. When you are into training then you will see it and knows what I mean.


Quote
When I do get one, can I call upon any of you "PSD, Azman and Polluxx" to help me test/select? Seriously, what kind of eye does this Apek has lah? Besides your typical china apek eyes (in fact, i think they have nicer eyes)?


Who is the apek you mean? Me? You test before you buy not buy then test. I think you terbalik liao.


Quote
What are the chances of the breeder/trainer letting you make a copy of the pedigree for you to do some research? Anybody can PM me to tell me where I can find excellent breeders that won't really mind me.


Good breeder tells you the line(not that everyone know how to appreciate) Sometimes they advertise on their site or such. Let say if you do come to me as a buyer asking for a whole bunch of papers. I would say thank you very much. All my pups are already sold.....pun intended.Unimpressed Reason being

1) do your research and by referal of another of this breeder before you approach him you should already have some basic knowledge of him.

2) do your own study and decide if you have the confidence on a breeder before approaching him

3) have a sincere conversation to ask for anything you don't understand

4) never sound like you don't trust or doubtful of their lines.

Remember, good breeder breeds out of passion for the breed. Money is not the most important thing for him. He don't have to make that sale and believe me if he sense any doubts or not sure of anyone, he won't be selling.


Quote
heck I'm gonna ask anyway, What's the normal budget for a well bred working GSD?


Kowpa does have his points. All in the eye of the beholder. You must decide if you want to spend 100K on a kick ass dog or 1K for a mongrel? All I can tell you is that show dogs puppies go for 1800-2500 as a general market price. Working dogs all depends on the drives.

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


wildgunsr
Dog Kichi

Oct 2, 2003, 1:05 AM

Post #119 of 251 (7123 views)
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Re: [PSD] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

  

Quote
Who? Where??Shocked


Modest pulak... Wink

Quote
When selecting puppy do puppy test, when selecting dog do dog test loh! Tongue OK! seriously, I don't know what you are really looking for. Different types of dog test for diffrent situation. In order not to go too far ahead I would generalise that we want to see confidence in a dog, good nerve and temprement and clear headedness. React only under threat. When you are into training then you will see it and knows what I mean.

For selecting puppy I only know of several test i.e
  1. The curiousity of the pup when you arrive, running to and investigating the new person
  2. The pinch test
  3. The seperation test
  4. The loud noise test
  5. The prey test
  6. Anymore??
What's the dog test ah?


Quote
Who is the apek you mean? Me? You test before you buy not buy then test. I think you terbalik liao.

Apek = me lahhhhhh.... Wink. Obviously do test before buy mah Pirate What I meant was would any of you guys be willing to accompany me when requested upon after i 'set my eye' on a pup/dog, to give some opinions.


Quote
Good breeder tells you the line(not that everyone know how to appreciate) Sometimes they advertise on their site or such. Let say if you do come to me as a buyer asking for a whole bunch of papers. I would say thank you very much. All my pups are already sold.....pun intended.Unimpressed Reason being
1) do your research and by referal of another of this breeder before you approach him you should already have some basic knowledge of him.
2) do your own study and decide if you have the confidence on a breeder before approaching him
3) have a sincere conversation to ask for anything you don't understand
4) never sound like you don't trust or doubtful of their lines.
Remember, good breeder breeds out of passion for the breed. Money is not the most important thing for him. He don't have to make that sale and believe me if he sense any doubts or not sure of anyone, he won't be selling.


Ok, so we need to do some research first before we approach any breeder, that makes sense. But how do we go about doing this? Where do we start? Ask him the Sire and Dam? The line? CrazyCrazyCrazy


Quote
Kowpa does have his points. All in the eye of the beholder. You must decide if you want to spend 100K on a kick ass dog or 1K for a mongrel? All I can tell you is that show dogs puppies go for 1800-2500 as a general market price. Working dogs all depends on the drives.



Tittles don't really mean anything if I'm not getting an adult dog. If I'm getting an adult dog, no necessary that it has to be tittled, I rather see the dog in action myself Smile.

Yes, showlines are, in fact, going from 1.4k to 2.5k. I've known working GSDs going for RM500!!! Crazy..FULLY TRAINED!!Crazy To good to be true eh? Hrmm...maybe because the dog was slightly older about 3 yrs old and seller and buyer were both gila working GSD. It was a fine guard dog until the day it died. God bless her soul.


(This post was edited by wildgunsr on Oct 2, 2003, 1:23 AM)


PSD
ALPHA


Oct 2, 2003, 1:21 AM

Post #120 of 251 (7120 views)
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Re: [wildgunsr] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Modest pulak... Wink ]


Bro. Not modest but tak boleh accept lah. Title is too heavy already. Many more person here who is greater.


Quote
For selecting puppy I only know of several test i.e
  1. The curiousity of the pup when you arrive, running to and investigating the new person
  2. The pinch test
  3. The seperation test
  4. The loud noise test
  5. The prey test
  6. Anymore??



I think you got it aldy.


Quote
Apek = me lahhhhhh.... Wink. Obviously do test before buy mah Pirate What I meant was would any of you guys be willing to accompany me when requested upon after i 'set my eye' on a pup/dog, to give some opinions.


I think we may be too spread out to do that. Unless you get more personal and buddy buddy with someone before they willing to divert from their busy schedule. When you mention APEK how young r u?

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


wildgunsr
Dog Kichi

Oct 2, 2003, 1:29 AM

Post #121 of 251 (7121 views)
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Re: [PSD] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

btw, where is this Polluxx ah? so senyap wan today....got secret agenda kot Wink

Maybe lah...well, this is where new friendships are born and common interest of friends grow Laugh

how old? Oh compared to you, I should be quite old. One day my fren, when we go out TT/yam char, if the opportunity arises, you shall know. Wink


Polluxx
Enthusiast


Oct 2, 2003, 4:53 AM

Post #122 of 251 (7106 views)
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Re: [wildgunsr, PSD] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi ,

Well 1st thing 1t, Wildgunsr , may I know wht U looking for ? ?
-----------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
"What I want is the drives, temparaments and soundness of the dog.My options remain open until the day I find the right dog, be it a pup or a dog. The fundamentals are more important than the age of the dog."
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..... do bear wt me coz I'm a bit confused here...; Crazy
a.) if U R looking for a pup, well maybe U can test for the drv & instinct , but temperament & soundness of the dog develops over time as he/she grow and in this case environment & how she is raised plays a very important part in her development...!


b.) and if R U looking for a trained dog who can be a good guard dog...? ? how will U define the he/she is the Right dog, . . . . The way I see it, it is thru rearing, training & playing that u get ur "RIGHT" dog, in my case I believe if I can Bond with my dog then he/she is my right dog..... I dun thk we will be able to purchase that...! ! Wink Wht do U think ? ?




Quote :
"where is this Polluxx ah? so senyap wan today....got secret agenda kot "
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Working la.....! Unimpressed


BTW I thk PSD got a point , not all breeders care where their litter goes to ? Breeder who screened their potential buyer r those who r concerned & care for their breed, they definitely dun wan their pups to land in the wrong hand....and this more so for working GSD breeder who should be more discerning when it comes to screening their pup's buyer ! coz workingline GSD is definitely not suitable for everybody....Wink


Still I believe , IF... U thru ur query & discusssion can forge a relationship with the breeder, I m sure he should have no problem selling his pup to U.


And as for testing for a grown dog , well if U can find a good breeder I m sure he will definitely be able to tell U abt the pro & con of the dog that take ur fancy , also should be able to offer his advice & guide U along....after all it is his own dog & should know better than any other ppl... . . . this is much better than getting any old 'Apek' to follow & help U to choose la..! Tongue


Quote :
"Ok, so we need to do some research first before we approach any breeder, that makes sense. But how do we go about doing this? Where do we start? Ask him the Sire and Dam? The line? "
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By asking the breeder la of course ! unless U ask him w/o doing any research then of course he will be angry for wasting his time...! Anyway I'm sure . . .any breeder worth his salt will not mind were U to ask to take a look at the parents pedigree ? If they do mind walk away....simple as that...! At least I will....Cool ..!



Polluxx






"Show me your dog and I'll tell you what manner of man you are."
(GSD Founder - Capt Max V Stephanitz)


wildgunsr
Dog Kichi

Oct 2, 2003, 6:55 AM

Post #123 of 251 (7102 views)
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Re: [Polluxx] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
..... do bear wt me coz I'm a bit confused here...; Crazy
a.) if U R looking for a pup, well maybe U can test for the drv & instinct , but temperament & soundness of the dog develops over time as he/she grow and in this case environment & how she is raised plays a very important part in her development...!


b.) and if R U looking for a trained dog who can be a good guard dog...? ? how will U define the he/she is the Right dog, . . . . The way I see it, it is thru rearing, training & playing that u get ur "RIGHT" dog, in my case I believe if I can Bond with my dog then he/she is my right dog..... I dun thk we will be able to purchase that...! ! Wink Wht do U think ? ?


I'll bear with you, just as long as you DON'T BARE ALL infront of me!!!! CrazyAngelic Simply terms, I want a guard dog. More complicated terms, that is the EXACT reason why I'm leaving my options open. If I do get a pup, I can ensure its temperament & soundness through proper developement and try my level best to train it to be an excellent guard/protection dog.BlushCool If i get an adult dog, I'll have to rely 90% on what the breeder/trainer tells me...if he's unscrupolous then I had it lah. I would define the 'right' dog is one that knows where it stands in the family, it's duties and responsibilities. The rest of the 10% or so, would be through my observation and what I learn letter about the dog if I do get it.Crazy


Quote
BTW I thk PSD got a point , not all breeders care where their litter goes to ? Breeder who screened their potential buyer r those who r concerned & care for their breed, they definitely dun wan their pups to land in the wrong hand....and this more so for working GSD breeder who should be more discerning when it comes to screening their pup's buyer ! coz workingline GSD is definitely not suitable for everybody.... Still I believe , IF... U thru ur query & discusssion can forge a relationship with the breeder, I m sure he should have no problem selling his pup to U. And as for testing for a grown dog , well if U can find a good breeder I m sure he will definitely be able to tell U abt the pro & con of the dog that take ur fancy , also should be able to offer his advice & guide U along....after all it is his own dog & should know better than any other ppl... . . . this is much better than getting any old 'Apek' to follow & help U to choose la..!


Exactly, therefore finding a breeder who I'm comfortable with is tough. I'm choosy and picky, if I'm getting a working GSD I wanna be sure, I'm getting the best that's available before committing. Crazy. This makes this an extremely patient journey. I don't want a business man, but it must be noted that a transaction definitely involves money, I rather have a breeder sell me a dog because of the trust that I'll not destroy he's pride and joy and he's not taking me as a 'water fish'!

Quote
By asking the breeder la of course ! unless U ask him w/o doing any research then of course he will be angry for wasting his time...! Anyway I'm sure . . .any breeder worth his salt will not mind were U to ask to take a look at the parents pedigree ? If they do mind walk away....simple as that...! At least I will....Cool ..!


That's why, I would be extremely appreciative if the sifus here can show me the rope Wink

Regards wildgunsr@puppy.com.my


PSD
ALPHA


Oct 2, 2003, 8:28 PM

Post #124 of 251 (7087 views)
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Re: [wildgunsr] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

Wildgunsr,

First and foremost I don't claim to be any sifu at any standard. Let me see haw I may help to comment here.


Quote
Simply terms, I want a guard dog. More complicated terms, that is the EXACT reason why I'm leaving my options open. If I do get a pup, I can ensure its temperament & soundness through proper developement and try my level best to train it to be an excellent guard/protection dog.BlushCool If i get an adult dog, I'll have to rely 90% on what the breeder/trainer tells me...if he's unscrupolous then I had it lah. I would define the 'right' dog is one that knows where it stands in the family, it's duties and responsibilities. The rest of the 10% or so, would be through my observation and what I learn letter about the dog if I do get it.Crazy


Guard dog, ok. So why keep your options open? Just agree that you are into guard dog and look for a guard dog properties simpler this way. There are easier way to find the Guard Dog than to find a good SchH dog. You also seam to want to know more but yet you are being extreemly gunshy of people cheating you. For an adult dog you are afraid that the trainer screwed him up but look at it this way, for a dog who can get those (you mentioned useless) titles, they have to have something in them to pass. Unless it is a show dog, Yes I agree their methods may be unthordox way this is why you need to see the dog and from the eye contact and your feel you will know if this dog exudes the confidence. I can tell you it is a good dog but you must follow your own feel too. Therefore Unless you are into serious training and are having the commitment to pursue the higher training for your would be protector, no one can teach you things in one day where it took them years and years to observe. If I read you correctly you want a wonder dog that is the best ever dog in Malaysia......? I don't think you will ever reach any deal to your liking if you pursue your goals this way. Your aim should be first look for a reasonable nerved, good tempremented dog from a working line. Learn to train it and learn from it. Then if you want to go further then you can upgrade and chose the dog of your liking with what you already learned from your previous dog. This should be your method in getting inducted.


Quote
Exactly, therefore finding a breeder who I'm comfortable with is tough. I'm choosy and picky, if I'm getting a working GSD I wanna be sure, I'm getting the best that's available before committing. Crazy. This makes this an extremely patient journey. I don't want a business man, but it must be noted that a transaction definitely involves money, I rather have a breeder sell me a dog because of the trust that I'll not destroy he's pride and joy and he's not taking me as a 'water fish'!


unfortunately, good breeders are far and few for working lines GSD's here. Most of the time it is not only you feeling comfortable with them, they want to feel comfortable with you too. therefore you need to have some trust based on your own gut feel and peoples recomendation. I'm sure no breeder would like to feel at the first meeting that they are being looked at guilty of a waterfish catcher until proven innocent if they are not one to start with. Hope you catch the drift. You could always not continue with the deal if you dont like what you see.

As for showing you the rope? I don't think anyone can help you more than what is written in this thread already. Work on your approach, I believe everyone can appreciate a sincere humble enquiry anytime. Breeders that are comfortable with you can give you more tips also this wayTongue

PSD

Quote
"Take this trouble for me:
Make sure my shepherd dog remains a working dog, for I have struggled all my life long for that aim ."

Rittmeister Capt. Max von Stephanitz (1864-1936)


wildgunsr
Dog Kichi

Oct 2, 2003, 9:14 PM

Post #125 of 251 (7082 views)
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Re: [PSD] germanshepherd [In reply to] Can't Post

ok ok, I'll stop calling u Sifu. Wait a sec, I didn't say the titles were useless, I said it doesn't really mean much if I was getting a pup. But if i got a guard adult dog, then lain cerita lah.

Thank you for the tips PSD.

btw, lets say that this dog is in a kennel with its view blocked from my gate, someone approach my gate, she starts barking and after barking she whines abit. What are the possibilities? Distress cuz she can't see what's going on? getting nervous cuz can't see?

If you were at the Eukunuba dog show, there was one veteran GSD that was on show, I realised that it was whinning VERY loudly when it was at the exhibitors ground, what's your take on that?

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